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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by francesco on February 1, 2004, at 17:16:35
Started lithium three days ago. I think it's making me stupid. I have to say I like the calming effect at first. But then I have read some post talking about the 'stupidity' side effect and I think it's what is happening to me. Does it go away ? I don't know if I wanna take meds anymore.
Posted by rod on February 1, 2004, at 17:30:26
In reply to newbie on lithium ... please help, posted by francesco on February 1, 2004, at 17:16:35
> Started lithium three days ago. I think it's making me stupid. I have to say I like the calming effect at first. But then I have read some post talking about the 'stupidity' side effect and I think it's what is happening to me. Does it go away ? I don't know if I wanna take meds anymore.
Why did your doctor prescribed lithium? Because of mania or just as an serotonergic antidepressant?
I cant tell much about lithium, because I have never taken it (and also dont intend to take in the future).
Who is that doctor who puts you on a different drug every week? Switching meds too often and rapidly causes in most of the cases a big mess in your brain. But I hope you find your way, with what drug ever, or without.
greetings to Italy
Roland
Posted by Metalblade on February 1, 2004, at 20:23:23
In reply to newbie on lithium ... please help, posted by francesco on February 1, 2004, at 17:16:35
I have a question francesco. Are you taking anything else along with the lithium? Lithium can make anti-depressants work for some people and maybe that is the stupid feeling you are having. That is if you mean stupid in the way you are acting. Or do you mean as in stupid like you can't read or concentrate kind of stupid.
Posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 5:49:28
In reply to Re: newbie on lithium ... please help, posted by rod on February 1, 2004, at 17:30:26
> Why did your doctor prescribed lithium? Because of mania or just as an serotonergic antidepressant?He prescribed me lithium because (I think) he thinks I can be bipolar II rapid cycling or bipolar III (mood swings induced by antidepressants). In the last period antidepressants are making me sick, I can't tolerate them anymore ... I have had some manic episode induced by meds (Paxil) and some hypomaniac episode induced by withdrawal of meds (Anafranil). Since without meds the only syntoms that bore me are short attention span and adhd- like syntoms I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing in taking psychotropic drugs. Nobody has proved me that I'm ill in any sense of the term, and I don't feel ill as long as I don't take med.
> Who is that doctor who puts you on a different drug every week? Switching meds too often and rapidly causes in most of the cases a big mess in your brain. But I hope you find your way, with what drug ever, or without.
Actually there seem to be a big mess in my brain. I have to say that I am the most culprit of all this mess. I acted like a seeker in the hope to find the right drug the allowed me to study. I have managed to get a PHD taking Anafranil, but after quitting it I was unable to concentrate. Now I feel the pressure, but a consistent part of my brain doesn't want me to take meds anymore, because without meds I have experienced happiness and true feelings for the first time since I was 18 (I'm 28 now). I'm beginning to think that for me meds have created more problems than they had solved. I don't want the right med anymore, I just want to change my life, not by brain chemistry. Sorry for the very big rambling.
Posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 5:56:25
In reply to Re: newbie on lithium ... please help, posted by Metalblade on February 1, 2004, at 20:23:23
> I have a question francesco. Are you taking anything else along with the lithium? Lithium can make anti-depressants work for some people and maybe that is the stupid feeling you are having. That is if you mean stupid in the way you are acting. Or do you mean as in stupid like you can't read or concentrate kind of stupid.
I'm not taking anything else at the moment but I quit Parmodalin (an italian med that mixes Parnate with Stelazine) some days ago after a five days trial. I mean stupid in the way I'm acting, I'm not that sharp anymore, I can't understand people's feelings in the same way I did before. I have a very conflictual relationship toward meds, they actually improve my syntoms but change my personality in ways I don't like. Yes, meds change personality, and they cannot not do it, since they change your brain. So, it's a life choice, taking meds or not to take them, and for me it's crucial. I'm sick not to able to make this choice once for all.
Posted by rod on February 2, 2004, at 6:03:00
In reply to Re: newbie on lithium ... please help » rod, posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 5:49:28
>
> > Why did your doctor prescribed lithium? Because of mania or just as an serotonergic antidepressant?
>
> He prescribed me lithium because (I think) he thinks I can be bipolar II rapid cycling or bipolar III (mood swings induced by antidepressants). In the last period antidepressants are making me sick, I can't tolerate them anymore ... I have had some manic episode induced by meds (Paxil) and some hypomaniac episode induced by withdrawal of meds (Anafranil). Since without meds the only syntoms that bore me are short attention span and adhd- like syntoms I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing in taking psychotropic drugs. Nobody has proved me that I'm ill in any sense of the term, and I don't feel ill as long as I don't take med.
>
> > Who is that doctor who puts you on a different drug every week? Switching meds too often and rapidly causes in most of the cases a big mess in your brain. But I hope you find your way, with what drug ever, or without.
>
> Actually there seem to be a big mess in my brain. I have to say that I am the most culprit of all this mess. I acted like a seeker in the hope to find the right drug the allowed me to study. I have managed to get a PHD taking Anafranil, but after quitting it I was unable to concentrate. Now I feel the pressure, but a consistent part of my brain doesn't want me to take meds anymore, because without meds I have experienced happiness and true feelings for the first time since I was 18 (I'm 28 now). I'm beginning to think that for me meds have created more problems than they had solved. I don't want the right med anymore, I just want to change my life, not by brain chemistry. Sorry for the very big rambling.I know what You mean. I am also wondering if parts of my symptoms are just side effects from drugs or real symptoms. Just a thought, if Anafranil worked for you in some way, you could add something like Lamictal insted of Lithium to Anafranil. In my personal experience, Lamictal is devoid of any "dumb" or "cognitive decline" effect.
Anyway, I hope you find a satisfactory solution.Roland
Posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 6:32:48
In reply to Re: newbie on lithium ... please help » francesco, posted by rod on February 2, 2004, at 6:03:00
Thanks Rod. I'll consider your suggestion if decide to go again on Anafranil. I'm now thinking about a wash out period, not taking meds for some month and see what happen. The problem is that side-effects of meds are real while syntoms, you know, can depend of a lot of socio-ambiental issues ... For ex. if I were a writer my traits would be considered far from being invalidant ...
I'm beginning to think about drugs as something that mess up your brain ... if they work or not depends on how you interpret this mess-up. I can't blame some friend of my mine who self-medicate themselves with street drugs ... I'm not so sure I'm more clever than they are on this issue.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 2, 2004, at 12:12:36
In reply to Re: newbie on lithium ... please help » rod, posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 6:32:48
I read a column once in which a psychiatrist said that the most coherent explanation that he could think of as to why so many antidepressants--and ECT--with so many different mechanisms of action all seem to have approximately the same success rate is that taking an antidepressant is like fixing an off-color television set by smacking it with one's hand.
Posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 12:38:35
In reply to Re: newbie on lithium ... please help, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 2, 2004, at 12:12:36
> I read a column once in which a psychiatrist said that the most coherent explanation that he could think of as to why so many antidepressants--and ECT--with so many different mechanisms of action all seem to have approximately the same success rate is that taking an antidepressant is like fixing an off-color television set by smacking it with one's hand.
lol
I think it's far from being false. On my fisrt days of lithium I made a lot of stupid conversation with people, talking about my personal problems, in a very non communicative way ... like I was drunk, worse that I was drunk.
Today I called a girl that I wanted to date and I talked her about the drugs I had taked, inturrepting her when she wanted to say something, and other things like these ... One of the reason why I make very short trial of drugs is that I wanna understand how drugs affect me because in the long term this is impossibile, you simply forget how you were before. I feel like I'm just drugging my self to obtain some goals.
Once you're in the drug circle, and even if you quit them, the first thing that come into your mind is finding a new drug because the other drugs 'failed'. I'm just 28 and I'm beginning to have the sensation the meds had ruined my life. A typical depression's sensation, so, should I add an antidepressant to my lithium regime ? ;-)
Posted by Toph on February 2, 2004, at 13:02:10
In reply to newbie on lithium ... please help, posted by francesco on February 1, 2004, at 17:16:35
In my experience Li has made no descernable alteration of cognition, only mood, and only exteme mood swings at that. After all, its a simple salt, not some complicated molecule. It will affect your internal organs if over prescribed or if you have vunerable kidneys or thyroid. You may have physiological side effects, diarrhea, dry mouth, etc. But if you are truely bi-polar - and from your longing for your manic life you probably are - it coulod save your life.
Posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 13:39:21
In reply to Re: newbie on lithium ... please help, posted by Toph on February 2, 2004, at 13:02:10
> In my experience Li has made no descernable alteration of cognition, only mood, and only exteme mood swings at that.
Lithium changed my way to relate with people from the very first day. Every drug change your personality, by definition, and I don't know if I want mine changed by meds. That's all. I don't know if other people can do well on meds ...
After all, its a simple salt, not some complicated molecule.
Sorry, this doesn't mean anything. A simple molecule that affect your brain in a way you don't know know, is not better that a complicated molecule.
You may have physiological side effects, diarrhea, dry mouth, etc. But if you are truely bi-polar - and from your longing for your manic life you probably are - it coulod save your life.
I don't know if I'm a truly bipolar because I don't know what bipolar means. The only extreme mood reactions I had were on coincidence with taking meds or quitting them. My psychiatrist admitted that my mood swing can be dued to the antidepressants I've taken (I've been prescribed). I think also that my mood swings are a reaction to my doubts, like what to do with my life. I'm depressed when I think about the fact I'm trapped in a career I can't follow without meds, and I'm happy when I manage not to think about it for a while, staying with friends and so on. Of course, there are possibile explainations, but if nobody can manage to demonstrate me I have an illness I have a lot of problems in accepting the so-called cure. That's all, sorry for my aggressive tone, it was not intented to hurt you. I'm just angry, because it's been ten years I've taken meds and I'm going nowhere. There must be an explaination for the fact that I can feel real pleasure in staying with others only when I'm not medicated. I don't want to accept a false life anymore, I rather prefer to suffer from 'real' pain.
Posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 13:55:26
In reply to Re: newbie on lithium ... please help, posted by Toph on February 2, 2004, at 13:02:10
"Lithium was first described as a psychiatric drug in 1949 by an Australian psychiatrist, John Cade. According to a psychiatric textbook: “While conducting animal experiments, Cade had somewhat incidentally noted that lithium made the animals lethargic, thus prompting him to administer this drug to several agitated psychiatric patients.”
In my humble opinion a person get manic always for a particul reason and get depressed for a particul reason. All this crap about brain-chemistry is fascinating but it's not demonstrable. I suspect I prefer thinking that I a have brain chemistry problem because I'm not able to face real life (and my own limits) without meds. A friend of mine is on heroin for the same reason. Am I better than him because I get prescriptions for the stuff I'm taking ? Or because my drug is less dangerous ? What about the pain I feel when I see myself behaving in a different way with my friends because I feel dumbed by meds ? Is there a med for that ?
Posted by Metalblade on February 2, 2004, at 14:30:30
In reply to lethargic lithium, posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 13:55:26
l I can tell you is that before the meds life for me was unbearable and now I have room to breathe. I would rather deal with drug side effects than my depression any day. And as far as the stupid talkative feeling they give me only helps in my day to day life. With out them I am like a scared rabbit.
Posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 15:46:19
In reply to Re: lethargic lithium, posted by Metalblade on February 2, 2004, at 14:30:30
> l I can tell you is that before the meds life for me was unbearable and now I have room to breathe. I would rather deal with drug side effects than my depression any day. And as far as the stupid talkative feeling they give me only helps in my day to day life. With out them I am like a scared rabbit.
Your post is interesting. You seem to recognize the 'stupid talkative feeling' as a side effect.
This confuses me. I don't know if it's what I want. Anyway, this proves that everything's subjective. I have nothing against meds in general, I'm glad you're doing fine on them, I just wondering if they're worth of me. I am a 'borderline case', one for whom it's not clear if medicating is the best thing to do. I have seen also psychiatrists who said I didn't have to take meds. Anyway, I don't care very much about the physical side-effects, just concerned about the way they change my life. I have been un-medicated for two years and an half and I discovered new sides of me that I forgot about when I was taking meds. I have live two lives, now I don't know which one is the best. Thanks for posting and good luck for your life
Posted by ramsea on February 3, 2004, at 4:35:44
In reply to Re: lethargic lithium » Metalblade, posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 15:46:19
It sounds to me like you may need to seriously stop taking meds. You would know if it helped. I was so ill and confused with Mixed Episodes of Mania and Depression at the same time that I could not continue to live. I am an artist and writer and my intellect/creativity is very important to me. During my long period of illness without correct medication I was unable to work or communicate with others. I was effectively stupified. But it wasn't the drugs. Except for trials of antidepressants which made me lethargic, gain massive amounts of weight and start rapid cycling. I am bipolar---I don't need a definition, it is so obvious to me and people who know me, who call me manic depressive as a tease even if they don't know I have the actual diagnosis.
When I started the lithium the heavy polluted clouds in my brain cleared and there was a lovely day to see and explore. I have been given my life back. It isn't perfect, but it is possible---and before lithium it was not possible to go on anymore. Lithium insn't for everyone. Don't take it if you don't want to. But for me I can't tell I am taking anything---my mind is not dulled, I still have strong feelings, and I haven't been tis creative and communicative in years. It's also possible tha some lithium trials fail because the pdoc seeks to high a blood level according to the book and not the reactions of the individual. Some of us need less--we are very med sensitive. Some of us need more. But too much, even if you don't get toxic, could well make you feel zonked. I felt like that on Tegretal. Just wiped out. Bt lithoum has been an angel so far (knock on all handy pieces of wood).
Posted by Sad Panda on February 3, 2004, at 5:25:38
In reply to Re: newbie on lithium ... please help » rod, posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 5:49:28
>I have managed to get a PHD taking Anafranil, but after quitting it I was unable to concentrate. Now I feel the pressure, but a consistent part of my brain doesn't want me to take meds anymore, because without meds I have experienced happiness and true feelings for the first time since I was 18 (I'm 28 now).
>Serotonin can dull emotions & Anafranil is the strongest serotonin med from the Tricyclic class. Maybe a med like Nortriptyline or Desipramine would be better for you and give back your lost concentration.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Toph on February 4, 2004, at 11:32:54
In reply to Re: lethargic lithium » Metalblade, posted by francesco on February 2, 2004, at 15:46:19
Lithium is a monovalent cation that forms a carbonate salt. It has similar cognitive effects as taking sodium bicarbonate or potassium chloride. Your feeling that Lithium dumbs you are likely psychological.
Posted by drjanni on February 4, 2004, at 16:31:03
In reply to Re: lithium sharpens my mind, posted by ramsea on February 3, 2004, at 4:35:44
I just started taking lithium today. I've been on Depakote for the last 8 months and have gained 40 lbs and sleep way, way too much. I no longer feel like running my car off the road, but think that the weight gain is simply too much -- I know if this continues, I'll definitely stop taking my meds. So my p-doc started me on lithium with the hope of tapering me off depakote. I'm hoping that the side effects will not be as acute.
Posted by Flipsactown on February 5, 2004, at 1:47:41
In reply to Re: lithium sharpens my mind, posted by ramsea on February 3, 2004, at 4:35:44
Francesco,
I have been on lithium currently at 300mg for 3 weeks and I do feel it helping some in relieving my unipolar depression but not anything spectacular. I know it is probabably too soon to tell if lithium will be the magic bullet. I am also taking lamictal, remeron and prozac. How long did it take before you felt the lithium working and at what dose? Thanks. Hope it continues to work for you.
Flipsactown
> It sounds to me like you may need to seriously stop taking meds. You would know if it helped. I was so ill and confused with Mixed Episodes of Mania and Depression at the same time that I could not continue to live. I am an artist and writer and my intellect/creativity is very important to me. During my long period of illness without correct medication I was unable to work or communicate with others. I was effectively stupified. But it wasn't the drugs. Except for trials of antidepressants which made me lethargic, gain massive amounts of weight and start rapid cycling. I am bipolar---I don't need a definition, it is so obvious to me and people who know me, who call me manic depressive as a tease even if they don't know I have the actual diagnosis.
>
> When I started the lithium the heavy polluted clouds in my brain cleared and there was a lovely day to see and explore. I have been given my life back. It isn't perfect, but it is possible---and before lithium it was not possible to go on anymore. Lithium insn't for everyone. Don't take it if you don't want to. But for me I can't tell I am taking anything---my mind is not dulled, I still have strong feelings, and I haven't been tis creative and communicative in years. It's also possible tha some lithium trials fail because the pdoc seeks to high a blood level according to the book and not the reactions of the individual. Some of us need less--we are very med sensitive. Some of us need more. But too much, even if you don't get toxic, could well make you feel zonked. I felt like that on Tegretal. Just wiped out. Bt lithoum has been an angel so far (knock on all handy pieces of wood).
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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