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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 29 to 53 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 22:31:16
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Siraris on January 6, 2004, at 21:57:45
Siraris,
You are of course right that everyone is different. It's a good point.
Also, I am happy that you feel so relieved from reading Utopizen's post. It feels good to know that someone else has had the same experiences and feels the same way.
One more thing, I know exactly what you mean when you talk about thinking about being anxious causing the anxiety. Same thing happens here, or it does when I am not on enough meds (Klonopin and whatever else). But I always thought that was a sign of obsessive thinking (OCD without the C), which is what my pdoc said I have. What do you think about that?
All the best,
plover
Posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 22:41:52
In reply to Did CBT help you overcome panic attacks?, posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 16:25:47
Hey, what a coincidence!
This article about scanning the brains of people who underwent CBT for depression vs. those who took meds just came out today. It's very interesting. From the Boston Globe. Enjoy!
What do people think about this article? I think the findings are fascinating, but I see that the CBT proponents see this as proof that meds are unnecessary, which is definitely not the case for everyone.
All the best,
psychlover
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 6, 2004, at 23:36:15
In reply to Did CBT help you overcome panic attacks?, posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 16:25:47
> I am wondering if the CBT therapy actually made a difference for you...
I'd like follow-ups regarding CBT to be redirected to Psycho-Babble Psychology. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040102/msgs/297458.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Kon on January 6, 2004, at 23:45:56
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Mr. Scott on January 5, 2004, at 22:37:02
>in fact, benzos will increase your IQ if you have a clinically signifigant degree of anxiety to begin with.
When one is preoccupied by their anxiety, one has less ability to focus on a task but there is no evidence I've come across suggesting long-term benzo use will increase one's IQ. If you have any such studies, please post them. In fact, a number of studies suggest that long-term psychotropic drug use (including benzos)can cause cognitive problems even in anxious individuals; that is, anxious patients who aren't on medication score higher on cognitive/memory tests than anxious patients that have been on long-term psychotropic drug treatment (including benzos). Moreover, a number of studies suggest improvement in memory/cognition tests following withdrawl of benzos. See studies below.
--------------------------------------------------
Psychol Med. 1999 Mar;29(2):421-8.Anxiety, depression, psychotropic drug use and cognitive impairment.
Paterniti S, Dufouil C, Bisserbe JC, Alperovitch A.
Institut National de la Sante et de la Recherche Medicale, Unit 360, Paris, France.
BACKGROUND: Numerous studies have shown that anxiety and depression are related to cognitive impairment, but the concomitant association between anxious symptoms, depressive symptoms and cognitive function has not been investigated, and, most studies have not considered psychotropic drug use as a possible confounding factor. METHODS: We assessed the independent association between depression, anxiety, psychotropic drug use and cognitive performance in 457 men and 659 women, aged 59-71 years living in the community. Data on demographic background, occupation, medical history, drug use and personal habits were obtained using a standardized questionnaire. The Spielberger Inventory Trait and the Center for Epidemiologic Study-Depression (CES-D) scales were used to evaluate anxious and depressive symptomatology respectively. Cognitive assessment included six traditional tests covering the main areas of cognitive functioning. RESULTS: In men, anxious and depressive symptomatologies had independent significant associations with most cognitive abilities, independent of psychotropic drug use. In women, the association between anxiety or depression and cognitive functioning was less strong and disappeared after adjustment for psychotropic drug use. Psychotropic drug use was associated with lower cognitive scores in both sexes. In men with high CES-D scores, we found positive correlations between anxiety level and cognitive scores. CONCLUSIONS: The study showed that anxiety, depression and psychotropic drug use were significantly and independently associated with cognitive functioning in elderly men. The high prevalence of psychotropic drug use in women with or without psychological disorders may explain its major effect in women. Results suggested that anxiety may partly compensate for some negative effects of depression on cognitive functioning.
--------------------------------------------------
Psychol Med. 1994 Feb;24(1):203-13.Lack of cognitive recovery following withdrawal from long-term benzodiazepine use.
Tata PR, Rollings J, Collins M, Pickering A, Jacobson RR.
Department of Psychology, St George's Hospital Medical School, University of London.
Twenty-one patients with significant long-term therapeutic benzodiazepine (BZ) use, who remained abstinent at 6 months follow-up after successfully completing a standardized inpatient BZ withdrawal regime, and 21 normal controls matched for age and IQ but not for anxiety, were repeatedly tested on a simple battery of routine psychometric tests of cognitive function, pre- and post-withdrawal and at 6 months follow-up. The results demonstrated significant impairment in patients in verbal learning and memory, psychomotor, visuo-motor and visuo-conceptual abilities, compared with controls, at all three time points. Despite practice effects, no evidence of immediate recovery of cognitive function following BZ withdrawal was found. Modest recovery of certain deficits emerged at 6 months follow-up in the BZ group, but this remained significantly below the equivalent control performance. The implications of persisting cognitive deficits after withdrawal from long-term BZ use are discussed.
Posted by psychlover on January 7, 2004, at 0:13:45
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Kon on January 6, 2004, at 23:45:56
Uh-oh. The second study you cited that showed that congnitive function did not improve after discontinuation from long-term benzo use, even after 6 months, is especially disconcerting. This is what I intuitively felt was the case, but I am rather disturbed that this study seemed to confirm that hypothesis.
Do you have any other studies that also concur with this finding (that discontinuation of benzos does not result in improvement of cognitive function to pre-treatment levels)? I would very much like to read them.
Thanks,
psychlover
Posted by Siraris on January 7, 2004, at 0:15:05
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Kon on January 6, 2004, at 23:45:56
*The study showed that anxiety, depression and psychotropic drug use were significantly and independently associated with cognitive functioning in elderly men.*
Elderly men... do you think that's even relevant to this situation? I am not elderly, I'm in my early 20's. When I am elderly, I expect to lose cognitive abilities because my brain is old. My Grandmother is 92 and is losing her cognitive abilities because she's ELDERLY. She takes no medication whatsoever and is not sick in any way.
Regarding both tests, what evidence do they have of the cognitive abilities of these patients before the testing.
In the second test, how do they know that the Benzo's were causing the cognitive ability loss and not the fact that they were anxious and depressed? It says nowhere that they were anxiety and depression free.
I mean granted here are two studies of people on Benzo's, but they don't seem to be very good if you ask me. If you show me a test where they found that 50 people had a 120 IQ before taking Benzos, and then started taking them and their IQ dropped to 110, then I'd say Benzos are the issue.
Posted by Siraris on January 7, 2004, at 0:17:45
In reply to Re: Uh-oh, that study is disturbing » Kon, posted by psychlover on January 7, 2004, at 0:13:45
From what I have heard from other people on this board, that when they are having issues with a medication, Benzos for example, and they get off them, they say their cognitive abilities came right back. Search on Dr-Bob for Klonopin + Memory.
My friend is Bi-polar and was on Paxil, and complained of being foggy and having memory problems, and she said as soon as she stopped taking the paxil she regained her abilities. She said the other issues were just related to her ADHD most likely. If you were to talk to her, you'd be pretty impressed with her incredible vocabulary, her ability to paint, her singing, and the fact that I watched her visualize her health insurance card and remember 4 letters off it right in front of me.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 7, 2004, at 5:30:27
In reply to Re: Uh-oh, that study is disturbing, posted by Siraris on January 7, 2004, at 0:17:45
I have to concur with Siraris' friend about Paxil -- my mental function was horribly impaired each of the three times some doctor forced it on me. Same goes for Luvox. I can remember this effect extremely vividly as it was just prior to my two-year agoraphobic shut-in that I last took Paxil, and I was attempting to take classes at the university at the time. Bad idea!
As for Klonopin, it's just over three years that I've been taking it on a pretty regular basis, at doses ranging from 4-20mg per day. Currently I take 8mg daily, which surprisingly does not cause even slight mental dysfunction, but I wonder if that could have anything to do with the 60mg Adderall XR I take every morning?
Posted by Kon on January 7, 2004, at 18:56:58
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Siraris on January 7, 2004, at 0:15:05
> Elderly men... do you think that's even relevant to this situation? I am not elderly, I'm in my early 20's. When I am elderly, I expect to lose cognitive abilities because my brain is old.
Yes, as you get older your cognitive abilities decrease but the study suggests that your cognitive abilities may decrease to a greater degree if you take such drugs long-term than if you don't. There are even a number of studies that suggest some increase incidence of dementia in long-term benzo users when compared to non-users.> Regarding both tests, what evidence do they have of the cognitive abilities of these patients before the testing.
Does it really matter? If performance on the cognitive/memory tests improves following withdrawl of the drug, doesn't that suggest the drug plays some role in the lower scores seen prior to withdrawl? What other explanation can you offer given that a control group did not show performance improvement?
> In the second test, how do they know that the Benzo's were causing the cognitive ability loss and not the fact that they were anxious and depressed? It says nowhere that they were anxiety and depression free.
But the test scores improved following withdrawl of benzos. If what you are saying is true, withdrawl of benzos and return of anxiety/depression should have resulted in decreased scores/performance. In fact, subjects improved their scores.
>If you show me a test where they found that 50 people had a 120 IQ before taking Benzos, and then started taking them and their IQ dropped to 110, then I'd say Benzos are the issue.Studies do suggest some cognitive/memory deficits following medication with benzos. In fact, benzos are used before operations for this purpose. But it has always been argued that such deficits are short-term simply because one hasn't adapted to the benzo or is due to the initial sedating effect of benzos (which goes away after a couple of weeks). The problem with this argument is that it can't explain the long-term decrement that occurs in long-term benzo users or their improvement in scores following withdrawl of benzo.
>Do you have any other studies that also concur with this finding (that discontinuation of benzos does not result in improvement of cognitive function to pre-treatment levels)? I would very much like to read them.Most show gradual improvement. The longest one I've come across was a follow-up at 3.5 years. After this longer time period, it does show that cognitive function was similar to control group. The studies suggest that the risk increases with longer duration of use and higher doses. Despite these risks, I still take clonazepam as-needed at a dose of < 2.0 mg because I still feel that benzos are safer choice for my anxiety than the alternatives.
Posted by Siraris on January 7, 2004, at 19:19:54
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Kon on January 7, 2004, at 18:56:58
I see you posting all these studies, could you post a link from where you are getting these? I'd like to see the website.
Posted by Kon on January 7, 2004, at 21:02:55
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Siraris on January 7, 2004, at 19:19:54
> I see you posting all these studies, could you post a link from where you are getting these? I'd like to see the website.
Pub MEDLINE-For this topic just type "benzodiazepines memory" or "benzodiazepines cognitive" or "clonazepam memory", etc. It lists the abstracts of pretty well every study conducted in medicine and related health fields since the 1950s.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed
Posted by scott-d-o on January 7, 2004, at 22:28:48
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Kon on January 7, 2004, at 18:56:58
I'm not sure I understand the debate in this thread. If anything, Klonopin *protects* neurons from damaging excitatory neurotoxins like glutamate by potentiating GABA transmission. Any memory dysfunctions resulting from it's usage should cease upon withdrawal. If anything, the patient's brain cells will be in better condition after treatment than if they had never started it in the first place. This is, of course, assuming a *slow taper* off the medication.
Besides, if a patient is experiencing this side effect, their dosage is most likely too high. The patient needs to start tapering off until they can function normally. If the patient cannot find anxiety relief from benzodiazepines without experiencing memory dysfunction they should seek other types of medication (anti-psychotics maybe?), or cognitive behavorial therapy may also be helpful in the long-term.
scott
Posted by nobodyz on January 7, 2004, at 22:29:32
In reply to in the news: brain scans of CBT vs. meds patients, posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 22:41:52
> Hey, what a coincidence!
>
> This article about scanning the brains of people who underwent CBT for depression vs. those who took meds just came out today. It's very interesting. From the Boston Globe. Enjoy!
>
> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/01/06/brain_mapping_may_guide_treatment_for_depression/
>
> What do people think about this article? I think the findings are fascinating, but I see that the CBT proponents see this as proof that meds are unnecessary, which is definitely not the case for everyone.
>
> All the best,
> psychlover
The above article is regarding depression and anti-depressants, not Klonopin and anxiety. Two totally different situations. :)
Posted by Siraris on January 7, 2004, at 23:34:01
In reply to Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins, posted by scott-d-o on January 7, 2004, at 22:28:48
Scott -
thats the most interesting thing I've heard so far. I am going to bring this up to my pdoc as he would know more then I would about what you said.
I was just wondering where you got this information. I have been debating lately if my memory issues are related to anxiety or the medication I'm taking. I really would like to get rid of my meds, and I am taking more of an active approach to getting rid of my anxiety (IE CBT and persuing NLP as well). I think I can get my anxiety under control without the medication.
Will I get my memory and cognitive abilities back if I get off the Klonopin? What about Paxil, would you say that could be damaging to memory as well? I've never heard an analysis like this before.
Posted by scott-d-o on January 7, 2004, at 23:46:45
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins, posted by Siraris on January 7, 2004, at 23:34:01
> Scott -
>
> thats the most interesting thing I've heard so far. I am going to bring this up to my pdoc as he would know more then I would about what you said.
>
> I was just wondering where you got this information. I have been debating lately if my memory issues are related to anxiety or the medication I'm taking. I really would like to get rid of my meds, and I am taking more of an active approach to getting rid of my anxiety (IE CBT and persuing NLP as well). I think I can get my anxiety under control without the medication.
>
> Will I get my memory and cognitive abilities back if I get off the Klonopin? What about Paxil, would you say that could be damaging to memory as well? I've never heard an analysis like this before.Hi Siraris,
Check this link out, hopefully it will answer your questions since it explains Klonopin's neuroprotective properties in layman's terms:
http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/3154/searchtext/klonopin/
Also check this one out if you would like to learn more about excitatory neurotoxins and the antioxidants which help prevent them from causing damage. Be aware though, it's quite lengthy.
http://www.offshorepharmacy.net/ias-excitotoxins.htm
Hope this helps,
scott
Posted by Siraris on January 8, 2004, at 0:00:12
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins » Siraris, posted by scott-d-o on January 7, 2004, at 23:46:45
Thanks so much scott for your quick reply. I was wondering if you could just tell me, if I get off the meds will my memory come back? Also what could paxil play into my equation. I am on 1 mg of klonopin and 10 mg of paxil.
Posted by psychlover on January 8, 2004, at 9:53:38
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins » Siraris, posted by scott-d-o on January 7, 2004, at 23:46:45
> Check this link out, hopefully it will answer your questions since it explains Klonopin's neuroprotective properties in layman's terms:
>
> http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/3154/searchtext/klonopin/I read this article and I was struck by the featured doctor's Klonopin-worship. He even goes so far as to say that if you buy the generic that it will not do the trick.
Reading this article, I felt that this doctor was for some reason trying to push Klonopin beyond what an objective scientist would be comfortable with. It made me suspect that perhaps this doctor is getting funding from the makers of Klonopin and is therefore not to be trusted as in impartial clinician but rather a paid spokesman. There was no disclosure at the end of the article stating whether or not this doctor received any kind of compensation from the drug company, as is customary, so this seemed to confirm my suspicions.
Did anyone else think this doctor seemed just a little bit too fond of Klonopin?
-psychlover
Posted by Siraris on January 8, 2004, at 9:56:44
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins » scott-d-o, posted by psychlover on January 8, 2004, at 9:53:38
I'd have to agree. He made it seem like it could do no wrong, like it was a wonder drug, and that every rumor about it he knew the exact answer too and there was no possibility he was wrong.
Posted by scott-d-o on January 8, 2004, at 14:33:15
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins » scott-d-o, posted by psychlover on January 8, 2004, at 9:53:38
> I read this article and I was struck by the featured doctor's Klonopin-worship. He even goes so far as to say that if you buy the generic that it will not do the trick.
He doesn't state it won't "do the trick", he merely states that generics are possibly not as potent, and a higher dosage might need to be taken to achieve the same affect. Believe it or not, this is true. The FDA actually allows generics to be less potent than the reference product yet still declares the two compounds to be bioequivalent. I just glanced at the FDA reference sheet for bioequivalency of Mylan generic 1mg clonazepam tablets and it showed the generic to be about 4% weaker under in-vivo and in-vitro testing. Not a big difference, however, there is no data provided for the other three manufacturers of generic clonazepam tablets.
> Reading this article, I felt that this doctor was for some reason trying to push Klonopin beyond what an objective scientist would be comfortable with. It made me suspect that perhaps this doctor is getting funding from the makers of Klonopin and is therefore not to be trusted as in impartial clinician but rather a paid spokesman. There was no disclosure at the end of the article stating whether or not this doctor received any kind of compensation from the drug company, as is customary, so this seemed to confirm my suspicions.Just because there was no disclaimer at the end of the article, that is enough to confirm your suspicion that the M.D. is full of bullsh*t? What about the fact that he also promotes the tricyclic doxepin? How about the fact that he advocates the use of magnesium glycinate and herbs such as kava kava and valerian? This doesn't strike me as a M.D's who is financially motivated; most pdoc's that are recommend patients stay away from herbs and supplements at all costs, so they can prescribe more Zoloft for these patients and mask the true cause of their problems.
I suppose I just didn't see the article the same way as you. In fact, I see the issue in the exact opposite light. The reason you don't see more M.D's advocating Klonopin's use is a result of corruption by drug companies which hold the patents on newer meds. Perhaps that's the reason you see this as "klonopin-worship."; you are only accustomed to seeing "SSRI-worship." Sorry, but Roche labs doesn't make sh*t off Klonopin and they are the last company that is going to be paying off doctors.
scott
Posted by Siraris on January 8, 2004, at 15:45:53
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins, posted by scott-d-o on January 8, 2004, at 14:33:15
Scott - That's just how I took the article. He sounded like quite a good guy, I just am very skeptical by most of what I read unless I know the person is real.
Yeah only 4% diff from the real isn't a big deal.
What do you think about Paxil btw? You never answered me on that.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 8, 2004, at 23:26:45
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins, posted by scott-d-o on January 8, 2004, at 14:33:15
I have to say I agree with the conclusions you've drawn. Some doctors (not nearly enough, though) are very much in love with clonazepam for no reason other than its extremely wide range of usefulness, low risk of abuse, and high rate of effectiveness in their patients. My pdoc is one of those people -- he's said to me on more than one occasion that he doesn't know what he'd do if clonazepam weren't around. Guess that's why he doesn't mind at all that I take 8mg/day and is in fact very encouraging about it. The majority of his patients are being treated for AD/HD, but about half are being treated for anxiety (often in addition to AD/HD). I'm treated for both myself, and my pdoc says clonazepam is *always* his first choice of medication whenever a patient comes in presenting with symptoms of an anxiety disorder. He says he's never had any problems with patient abuse of clonazepam (that he knows of -- stimulants are another story entirely though, of course), and any patients whom he's had to withdraw from the drug for whatever reason were invariably able to do so without incident under his strict protocol. FWIW, he also believes in the neuroprotective qualities of clonazepam due to it's antagonism of excitatory neurotransmission.
Posted by mtdew on January 8, 2004, at 23:34:36
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins » Siraris, posted by scott-d-o on January 7, 2004, at 23:46:45
Thanks for posting that article from immunesupport.com! That explains so much that I have observed in myself. Klonopin has been the single biggest help with my CFIDS. I get the "wired" feeling like crazy, and I feel like I've barely slept in months. I've also noticed that a small dose in the morning gives me an all-around better day. It appears that I've been unnecessarily cautious in my dosing (I certainly feel brain damaged!!). I am going to try to double-check Dr. Cheney's credentials first, but I have heard of him before as a respected CFIDS doc.
FWIW, I've read somewhere that long-term benzodiazepine use causes brain atrophy. I'll leave it to a non-brain-damaged person to verify that info.
My only concern is regarding tolerance. Pro-benzo people go out of their way to downplay this, but I do wonder how quickly and how much this diminishes the effects.
mtdew
> > Scott -
> >
> > thats the most interesting thing I've heard so far. I am going to bring this up to my pdoc as he would know more then I would about what you said.
> >
> > I was just wondering where you got this information. I have been debating lately if my memory issues are related to anxiety or the medication I'm taking. I really would like to get rid of my meds, and I am taking more of an active approach to getting rid of my anxiety (IE CBT and persuing NLP as well). I think I can get my anxiety under control without the medication.
> >
> > Will I get my memory and cognitive abilities back if I get off the Klonopin? What about Paxil, would you say that could be damaging to memory as well? I've never heard an analysis like this before.
>
> Hi Siraris,
>
> Check this link out, hopefully it will answer your questions since it explains Klonopin's neuroprotective properties in layman's terms:
>
> http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/3154/searchtext/klonopin/
>
> Also check this one out if you would like to learn more about excitatory neurotoxins and the antioxidants which help prevent them from causing damage. Be aware though, it's quite lengthy.
>
> http://www.offshorepharmacy.net/ias-excitotoxins.htm
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 9, 2004, at 0:32:17
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins, posted by mtdew on January 8, 2004, at 23:34:36
I don't understand why there is so much heated debate surrounding benzo usage. The defensiveness on the part of users (MYSELF INCLUDED!) reminds me of drug addicts in denial. And yet those who sit on their pedestals seem not to realize that those taking benzos probably wouldn't be if 1)something less controversial worked, 2) We weren't suffering in misery, or 3)That psychiatry in its prehistoric understanding of the etiology and treatment of mental disorders could relieve our suffering without creating dependence for us. Either way...who cares? Being honest with oneself is all that is necessary. I would like to be off my 7.5mg of Tranxene, because I am clearly hooked on it,and it only works partially. Antidepressants make me want to rip my skin off in strips, cook them in a frying pan and eat them before while like a wild beast. So for Anxiety I have to use benzos. My sex organs work and I haven't gained any weight, sometimes my memory is a bit foggy and if I skip a dose I am reminded by my dependence. One day If I find a substitute I'll even check into a hospital if need be to rid myself of the 5mg Valium equivalent I take daily. But right now my existence is too fragile. So until I see a double blind study indicating that I'll actually fair better in 6-12 weeks after tapering off of my benzo and not requiring me to put something else in its place that will ultimately raise my cholesterol, cause impotence, weight gain, emotional dulling, hypomania, or racing thoughts about placing a .45 in my mouth or someone elses...well then I'll just keep taking it.
However...The link below is to a study that I am too lazy to read, but it looks pretty inclusive.
http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/laa/kliin/vk/vorma/benzodia.pdfPleasant Thoughts
Scott
Posted by Siraris on January 9, 2004, at 2:18:40
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins, posted by Mr. Scott on January 9, 2004, at 0:32:17
I would look into NLP and CBT. Eventually your mind will realize your problems, and you will solve them on your own, or with the help of someone else and you will be able to get off your drug. That is my goal in the next 6 months. I want off paxil and klonopin no matter what. I would check into a hospital in a heartbeat if it would help me with my dependence.
I think most of the people with anxiety (myself included) have, or still do, stick with anxiety because it makes them comfortable. It is blocking them from doing something they don't want to do, and they feel ok with that. Sure it sucks having it, but it's stopping them from doing something else they want. Perhaps performing in life? Going out in public? Meeting new people? Who knows, but it's not there just because it's there. It's not a disease or a virus, it's something we create in our own minds.
I think we are all too smart for our own good, and in our infinite wisdom, we create our anxiety in order to protect ourselves. Who knows why, but we do it.
Too long I have lived my life depending on medication and letting myself say that I will live for the rest of my life on Clonazepam stopping me from feeling like I am going to die. All I need to do is realize I am a healthy young man and there is nothing wrong except I am scared of life. I'm already 9/10ths of the way there.
Hopefully, you all will find the way soon.
I'm off to take my meds :)
Posted by HOPEDREAM on March 29, 2004, at 21:48:20
In reply to Re: Klonopin provides protection from neurotoxins, posted by Siraris on January 9, 2004, at 2:18:40
i am scared of life too
This is the end of the thread.
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