![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Siraris on December 18, 2003, at 3:30:20
I am a 22 year old male that was diagnosed with anxiety disorder 7 years ago. At first I was taking 1 mg of klonopin and Imipramine. I now am on .5 mg of klonopin and 10 mg of Paxil. 6 years ago I noticed a decrease in being able to remember/retain information, but as of late it has gotten terribly worse. I am a college student majoring in Computer Science and my mind is extremely important in what I do.
Before I was diagnosed with anxiety, I was an incredible student, getting A's in all my classes and being able to remember everything. I could watch movies and remember all sorts of lines, all the characters names... I could read books and remember all sorts of stuff about it, all the little details even from 600 page books.
I can barely remember the titles of movies I am watching now, let alone character names and things like that. I read paragraphs of articles and books and forget what I read as soon as I read it. While talking, I put together sentences in an odd fashion, I also forget things that I am going to say and always have a very hard time recalling words (I used to have an excellent vocabulary.
I am finding as of late I start talking about things and forget what I am going to say. The other day I was going to bring my car in the garage when I got home, I went in to open the garage door, and instead of opening the door I went to go inside my house, completely forgetting that my car was outside, still on. I have had many more things like this happen as well.
I have also had a problem with sleeping... this has been an ongoing thing, but as of late it's even more noticeable. I used to have a very hard time waking up and getting to school. Now, I am on break from my university, and just relaxing. I am finding myself not being able to fall asleep at night, and sleeping for 12 hours a day minimum and still having trouble waking up then.
Is this something anyone else has noticed? Can it be cured? If anyone can PLEASE help me, give me any information you have, I would appreciate it so much. I just want my life back to normal. I want to be able to read information and retain it. I used to be such a smart wonderful person, and it feels like I've lost it all.
Posted by Lil Debbie on December 18, 2003, at 16:44:26
In reply to Klonopin and Paxil questions please help!, posted by Siraris on December 18, 2003, at 3:30:20
> I am a 22 year old male that was diagnosed with anxiety disorder 7 years ago. At first I was taking 1 mg of klonopin and Imipramine. I now am on .5 mg of klonopin and 10 mg of Paxil. 6 years ago I noticed a decrease in being able to remember/retain information, but as of late it has gotten terribly worse. I am a college student majoring in Computer Science and my mind is extremely important in what I do.
>
> Before I was diagnosed with anxiety, I was an incredible student, getting A's in all my classes and being able to remember everything. I could watch movies and remember all sorts of lines, all the characters names... I could read books and remember all sorts of stuff about it, all the little details even from 600 page books.
>
> I can barely remember the titles of movies I am watching now, let alone character names and things like that. I read paragraphs of articles and books and forget what I read as soon as I read it. While talking, I put together sentences in an odd fashion, I also forget things that I am going to say and always have a very hard time recalling words (I used to have an excellent vocabulary.
>
> I am finding as of late I start talking about things and forget what I am going to say. The other day I was going to bring my car in the garage when I got home, I went in to open the garage door, and instead of opening the door I went to go inside my house, completely forgetting that my car was outside, still on. I have had many more things like this happen as well.
>
> I have also had a problem with sleeping... this has been an ongoing thing, but as of late it's even more noticeable. I used to have a very hard time waking up and getting to school. Now, I am on break from my university, and just relaxing. I am finding myself not being able to fall asleep at night, and sleeping for 12 hours a day minimum and still having trouble waking up then.
>
> Is this something anyone else has noticed? Can it be cured? If anyone can PLEASE help me, give me any information you have, I would appreciate it so much. I just want my life back to normal. I want to be able to read information and retain it. I used to be such a smart wonderful person, and it feels like I've lost it all.
>Response:
I have been on Paxil for over 7 years. Originally for 'depression' but was later more accurately diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and OCD. I was at 20 mg, then when my anxiety became debilitating, about 5 years ago, I went into therapy and increased my Paxil to 40 mg.I don't have any answers to your questions, but can tell you that I have been experiencing the same memory loss issues. It has become much worse in about the last year. I have searched the internet a little and can find VERY little about this, except for a posting on this site from 2000 about SSRI's in general and memory loss.
So if it helps to know you're not alone, you're not. And I'm sure there are many others who want to know about the possible effects of long-term Paxil use and memory loss. I especially want to know if it's reversable.
Posted by Siraris on December 18, 2003, at 19:06:54
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Paxil questions please help! » Siraris, posted by Lil Debbie on December 18, 2003, at 16:44:26
Well I guess it's nice to know there are other people out there with the same problems, but I would wish this on no one and wish none of us had these problems.
And yes, I would do anything to reverse the problem and I hope that it is not perminent. If it is I don't know what I will do.
I am going to see my psychiatrist tomorrow and hopefully he will be able to tell me what to do.
I just find it very interesting that you are having the problems on Paxil, as most of the research I have read has shown the problem to lie in Klonopin.
Posted by mtdew on December 19, 2003, at 0:28:24
In reply to Klonopin and Paxil questions please help!, posted by Siraris on December 18, 2003, at 3:30:20
My story is remarkably similar to yours. I never sought psychiatric
treatment in my teens, but I too noticed a steady drop-off in my
ability to retain information, focus, etc., starting in my teens, if
not sooner. Taking tests used to be a breeze for me, but by the time I
took my SATs, I felt I had to struggle to keep my attention focused on
the page. I used to be great at spelling. I represented my middle
school in a regional spelling bee along with two other students both
years. I noticed my ability to visualize words start to deteriorate
years ago. Junior year in high school I felt the pressure of college
admissions and really pulled together and did very well academically
that year. The next year I slumped badly, and the problems with
concentration, information processing, recall, etc. continued into
college, where I too majored in CS. Freshman year I had to drop some
courses to avoid failing and I actually had to take an F in
one. Sophomore year was worse. I had extreme difficulty getting up for
class and in the Fall I missed my first class (an economics class) all
semester and was fortunate to pull off a C. Another class, which was
in my major, I skipped habitually because I was unable to pay
attention in lecture and felt it was a waste. I passed with a D, which
was embarassing. Fortunately, I avoided academic probation, but not
without some close calls.At this point, I had still not accepted that there was some kind of
problem beyond my control. I attributed my poor performance to lack of
self-motivation and too much partying. There were some facts that were
hard to explain, however, such as how I had easily scored well on a
competitive math test junior year in high school, then struggled the
following year to get a lower score on the same test. My junior year
in college, I decided I didn't want it to look like this school had
"kicked my butt" and so I single-mindedly dived into my studies and
became almost fanatically attentive to doing all the things I had
failed to do the previous years; e.g. not procrastinating, attending
all classes even if they seemed unimportant, going to optional study
sessions, looking for study partners in each of my classes, etc... I
also sacrificed virtually all social life. Well, this went great
during the Fall and I miraculously went from about a 2.6 to a 4.0! I
felt great, and I was sure I had conquered my demons.In the spring I managed a 4.0 also, but I started to feel myself
backsliding, as I took a lighter course load (can't remember if I
dropped anything -- I had a habit of doing so), skipped more classes,
and badly neglected a part-time research assistant job that I had
applied for and gotten while I was riding high at the end of the
Fall. I had a seemingly unreasonably hard time completing one or two
of the homeworks in a CS class I was in (Distributed Systems), as I
felt like I simply couldn't grasp the assignment somehow. I started
getting anxious about it and ultimately got something together,
slightly panicked, but it turned out not to be quite what the teacher
expected and he used my handin in class as an example of an
unnecessarily convoluted solution, although he gave me a good enough
grade. I had always had great confidence in my ability to see through
problems and I considered myself a consummate programmer -- when I
wanted to be. I also did some interviews with big-name companies for
summer internships that spring, and in one case, the interviewer hit
me with a problem involving simple recursion that I knew I knew how to
solve, but kept screwing up and was seemingly helpless to solve it
while he watched. I didn't get the job. This stuff was bothersome at
the time, but it would grow more significant in retrospect.Well, all I can say about senior year is that it was a disaster. I
went in with nothing but good intentions. My schedule was packed, and
I was pursuing my long-time intention of involving myself in research
by taking on a senior thesis. My plan was to use the same formula that
had worked so well the year before: prioritizing school first,
scrupulous class attendance, weekends not sacred, etc... The only
problem was, I felt like I was going through it with the brain of a
two-year-old, and the stamina of an 80-year-old. Rather than slack off
as I had earlier in my college years, the new me redoubled my drive
and tried to throw everything I had at the problem. The result was
anxiety, at a level I'd never experienced before, and hardly any
return for my effort. I missed a 4.0, still managing Dean's List, but
that was beside the point, because I had become a nervous
wreck. During the spring I took only a minimal course load (3 for
credit, 1 not for credit, + thesis), and felt overwhelmed by it. I
would spend every spare moment _trying_ to work. I picked up the
coffee habit junior year, and now I was guzzling it, which seemed to
relax and focus me for about an hour each day, just long enough to sit
down at my desk, open up some work, and then start nervously surfing
the web or sifting through mp3s, avoiding the work I simply could not
do. Still I lacked the detachment to see that something was very
wrong, and it was out of my control, that I needed some kind of
outside help. I ditched the idea of applying to grad school, after
doing surprisingly poorly on my GREs, losing the will to work on my
thesis, and being almost too embarassed to ask for recommendations ---
I did ask in some cases and the response was chilly. Somehow I pulled
off a 4.0 in my three for-credit classes, but again this seemed beside
the point, as I was beaten-down, burned-out, feeling generally quite
ineffectual. (I received an A on the thesis, too, but it was basically
just rubber-stamped.)Graduation was 1.5 years ago. I limped home to move in with my
parents, since the one job offer I had gotten was rescinded at the
last minute (not my fault -- I don't think -- sucky economy). Anyway
to summarize this next uneventful period, I never emerged from the
deep funk I was in; never got my mental faculties back; and felt like
I was in hell; but eventually I landed a job with my father's help and
one of my old contacts. I never got substantially better of my own
devices, so I started the medical/psychiatric route. A thyroid
condition was suspected, since it runs in the family, but test was
negative, as were all the other tests in my physical. They referred me
to psychiatry. I didn't believe I was a mental case, but eventually I
cracked and went in and asked for and got a dx of depression, and
asked for and got antidepressants. Prozac made me feel trippy and
good, at first, but ultimately side effects took over and I got scared
off after barely a week. I felt like the therapist and pdoc were
missing the point of what I was telling them, and hearing only what
they wanted to hear; I felt it was a waste of my time and theirs; so
after sticking it out for a while and trying BusPar for supposed
anxiety, I eventually dumped them. There was no sign of improvement in
my ability to perform work.Anyway the medical story could be the subject of another large post,
and it's much less interesting, so I'll summarize. I am currently
pursuing this as CFIDS (Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome),
of the lesser-known "gradual onset" variety. I have every symptom
except recurrent myalgia (muscle pain), with "brain fog" being the
most pernicious symptom, but also fatigue, unrefreshing sleep,
dramatic worsening of my condition with stress, chronic sore throat
and nasal congestion/PND, and others too numerous to mention. Immune
system tests I've had seem to bear out this diagnosis.There has been some dramatic improvement in certain symptoms by
following a CFIDS treatment regimen, but I am still struggling
mightily at work and hanging on by a thread. I recently started celexa
(and provigil), and I think I see some improvement in my cognition,
but when I look back on what I lost, it's really quite marginal. My
goal is to hang on to this job and get my own apartment
eventually. I've only scratched the surface of the medical
interventions and different approaches I've gone through, so write
back, or email me (mtdewcmu_at_yahoo_com) if you want to hear more.I've never quite resolved in my own mind the distinction between CFIDS
and clinical depression... I mean I have a pretty good idea of what
CFIDS is, but I don't get what depression is. Is it mental? Is it
physical? Does it strike at random, or is it precipitated by negative
thinking? I wonder if a lot of people diagnosed with depression (as I
was) don't really have CFIDS, but what does it mean to "really" have
CFIDS or "really" have depression, and does it matter? For the record,
I am sticking with CFIDS as a diagnosis, because I think that
psychiatry is totally and hopelessly unscientific, and I hate being
told that my thinking is wrong and I'm exacerbating the problems by
not being more "normal." My CFIDS doctor is working with me on
multiple fronts simultaneously, trying to build up my immune system
and improve the fatigue and brain fog. Psychiatric drugs are involved,
but they are not supposed to be panaceas.> I am a 22 year old male that was diagnosed with anxiety disorder 7 years ago. At first I was taking 1 mg of klonopin and Imipramine. I now am on .5 mg of klonopin and 10 mg of Paxil. 6 years ago I noticed a decrease in being able to remember/retain information, but as of late it has gotten terribly worse. I am a college student majoring in Computer Science and my mind is extremely important in what I do.
>
> Before I was diagnosed with anxiety, I was an incredible student, getting A's in all my classes and being able to remember everything. I could watch movies and remember all sorts of lines, all the characters names... I could read books and remember all sorts of stuff about it, all the little details even from 600 page books.
>
> I can barely remember the titles of movies I am watching now, let alone character names and things like that. I read paragraphs of articles and books and forget what I read as soon as I read it. While talking, I put together sentences in an odd fashion, I also forget things that I am going to say and always have a very hard time recalling words (I used to have an excellent vocabulary.
>
> I am finding as of late I start talking about things and forget what I am going to say. The other day I was going to bring my car in the garage when I got home, I went in to open the garage door, and instead of opening the door I went to go inside my house, completely forgetting that my car was outside, still on. I have had many more things like this happen as well.
>
> I have also had a problem with sleeping... this has been an ongoing thing, but as of late it's even more noticeable. I used to have a very hard time waking up and getting to school. Now, I am on break from my university, and just relaxing. I am finding myself not being able to fall asleep at night, and sleeping for 12 hours a day minimum and still having trouble waking up then.
>
> Is this something anyone else has noticed? Can it be cured? If anyone can PLEASE help me, give me any information you have, I would appreciate it so much. I just want my life back to normal. I want to be able to read information and retain it. I used to be such a smart wonderful person, and it feels like I've lost it all.
>
Posted by Siraris on December 19, 2003, at 1:30:48
In reply to Warning, Long Post, posted by mtdew on December 19, 2003, at 0:28:24
I am baffled, as this is me as well, almost to a T.
I really don't know what to say. I have never heard of CFIDS, and although it sounds a little out there, it could be me as well. The thing is, I do have panic/anxiety disorder, and I didn't see you mention anything about you feeling like you did, any time in your life.
I assume by your email address, that you went to Carnagie Melon (unless it has some other meaning mtdewcmu), and if you did, that's pretty impressive. I personally went about things a different way.
I thought, from a very very young age, that I was extremely special. I don't mean to sound like I am bragging, but I really was a special young person, as I believe many of the people who post on this board are. When I was roughly 2 years old, I used to memorize all the books my mother read to me, and would say them back to her. Remarkably, though, I was able to read through books and actually point at the words while I was saying them.
When I started regular schooling, I didn't care about school for some reason. Some time in Kindgergarten or first grade, things changed, and I became a very very focused student. I was in an advanced math class with the middle school head of math starting in second grade, and was always in advanced math programs until I switched to public school after a year of living in Chicago (around 7th grade). I started reading books at a very young age, and can even say I read The Firm by John Grisham when I was about 8 years old. Not something that I am proud of now, but when I was around that age (8-12) I would often pass for someone in their 20's when talking to people who did not know me online.
I also had an incredible sense of direction. If I needed to go somewhere, like to my sisters house, I could actually picture the entire route from my house to theirs, in my head, seeing every piece of land along the way (houses, any fenses or walls etc) and this happened with other things as well. Now I have trouble navigating to the most simplest places.
But I think something that was the most remarkable, and something I wish I had today, was my ability to absorb information without even thinking. I would be able to sit in class, on the rug or at a desk, and talk to someone, and when the teacher would ask me what he/she had just said, I could repeat it word for word. This frustrated many of my teachers, as I was distracting the other students, and I think it also had to do that I actually WAS hearing what they were saying ;)
I started going to psychiatrists at a very young age, as my school (which happened to be private) and my parents thought I had behavorial problems/ADD. Around age 7 or 8 I went to Yale University for a battery of tests, and found to be in a very high percentile, scoring I believe a 148-150 something IQ.
My computer skills were something to be reckoned with, although I did not start programming until around the age of 16, but I had been using the computer since the age of 3. I would sit with my mother and play old Sierra games, telling her what to do, since I didn't know how to spell at the time. Basically, I had it made cognitively.
I made the move to Chicago when I was 12, and although it was hard, I dealt with it pretty well, and at my new school, continued to accell greatly at math and science. My teacher would stay after class with me on certain days, and teach me advanced math beyond what our class was doing. The summer after 6th grade, I did an advanced program with National Louis University, that although enjoyable, was a little over my head. Then came the big change. I had to leave the school I was at, and went to a public school near my house. I remember to this day, going into the math teachers class and taking the test to get into advanced math. I scored an 89, but needed a 92 to get in... I was crushed, and things went down hill from there (at least in school). I was still accelling in my other courses, but I started to feel the social pull of "wanting to be cool". So I started acting out and not caring about my studies. I started hanging out with the "cool" kids, but that did not last long. Eventually, I just didn't care about school. I didn't see the point, I didn't need anything from it, it was stupid, I could learn it all on my own.
Panic/anxiety came in High School during the viewing of a movie while out with friends. My mother dismissed the panic attack I had had for well over 45 minutes while at the movie as just me being a hypocondriac... and I thought she was right as it didn't come back... until a few months later. I had panic every day for about 6 months at school, until finally, while watching a movie in a class, I started panicing, went out in the hall, and my whole world literally flipped 360 degrees.
I was put on medication, and went back to school, taking about a week or two before I could go back to classes normally. I still cared nothing for what school had to offer, and went through life just playing video games.
The summer before my senior year of high school, I started working for an internet startup doing programming. I was so not ready for the job, but I did it anyways, and they kept me on, until one day the company basically went under. I got through my senior year, and then took a year off to work, which I did fairly well. I then decided one day that I was going to college, so I drove downtown, said I want to goto school, and I did it.
So that's my story. I've been thinking about CFIDS as I write this, and find it hard to believe I could have something like that, as I never get sick. When I was younger, around 7 or 8, I used to get tonsil infections every month until I finally got my tonsils out, and now I barely ever get sick. I do feel all the things you wrote about CFIDS though, so it's puzzling to me. I have been going to doctors, psychiatrists for years now, how could they not know?
I'd like to add, that while I was reading what you wrote, I kept experiencing something that has been bothering me for a while now. Whenever I try and read, I basically just skip around, and don't really read what I am reading. I find myself just moving over the words, sometimes skipping entire sentences. I have to read stuff over and over again.
And while writing this, I have to keep extreme concentration on what I am writing, and often write things I don't mean to write. I type at incredibly fast speeds (somewhere around 140 WPM) and I never used to have this problem, but now I just write and it's almost as if it's not me.
I'd like to add one more thing, and maybe someone can expand, or comment on this. A few months ago I tried smoking Marijuana. I wanted to see what it was like, as it was the only drug I would ever consider even trying. After only 2 "hits" I coughed for about 5 minutes, and then while standing near my friends computer, felt like I blacked out (while standing up) and when I came to, the room was moving, and I was freaking out. I didn't know what happened, and I thought I was dying, the room was physically moving/swaying, and getting blurry. Someone finally told me I was just high, and when I realized it, the fear went away, and I had one of the best times of my life. I didn't smoke very much, only 3 or 4 times after that and never ever felt panic. Then, my most recent time, about a month ago, I had a terrible panic attack, and it didn't go away. For 2 hours I had this indescribable feeling, but the thing is, it was all in my mind. Everything I felt, all the fear I felt was all in my head. I honestly had no physical manifisation of this attack, my heart rate was totally normal, I had no sweaty palms, nothing was showing itself physically, even though it was all happening in my head, and I felt that it was happening in my body.
I say this just for the pure fact of the interest of it. I cannot wrap my head around the fact that the panic I felt was all in my head. I have this new insight into how the brain works, in that I feel the fears in my brain, somewhere, and then my body feels it too... that's the only way I can explain it, and if it doesn't make sense to you, that's fine because it makes no sense to me.
I'd love to hear from more people, on anything they have to say. Although I wish none of this was happening to me or any of us, it's good to know I'm not alone.
Posted by mtdew on December 19, 2003, at 2:58:58
In reply to Re: Warning, Long Post (With longer post), posted by Siraris on December 19, 2003, at 1:30:48
I agree that there is a great deal of similarity in our cases. I'm going to save a lengthier response for later, but I have a couple links that I found fascinating and I think you might too.
This is by a doctor who treats children labeled as autistic, but he believes they are suffering from a chronic immune dysregulation syndrome:
http://www.neuroimmunedr.com/present3/index.htm
This is an article by the same doctor. Some of it is a rehash of info from the presentation, but there is a lot of additional material.
http://www.neuroimmunedr.com/Articles/CFS_-_CFIDS/Chronic_Fatigue/chronic_fatigue.html
I'm interested to get your reaction to at least the first of these. By the way, I also have trouble reading, with the problems you mentioned, but right now I seem to be on an upswing. If you can barely read english, I bet you have a hell of a time with code. I sure do.
mtdew
> I am baffled, as this is me as well, almost to a T.
>
> I really don't know what to say. I have never heard of CFIDS, and although it sounds a little out there, it could be me as well. The thing is, I do have panic/anxiety disorder, and I didn't see you mention anything about you feeling like you did, any time in your life.
>
> I assume by your email address, that you went to Carnagie Melon (unless it has some other meaning mtdewcmu), and if you did, that's pretty impressive. I personally went about things a different way.
>
> I thought, from a very very young age, that I was extremely special. I don't mean to sound like I am bragging, but I really was a special young person, as I believe many of the people who post on this board are. When I was roughly 2 years old, I used to memorize all the books my mother read to me, and would say them back to her. Remarkably, though, I was able to read through books and actually point at the words while I was saying them.
>
> When I started regular schooling, I didn't care about school for some reason. Some time in Kindgergarten or first grade, things changed, and I became a very very focused student. I was in an advanced math class with the middle school head of math starting in second grade, and was always in advanced math programs until I switched to public school after a year of living in Chicago (around 7th grade). I started reading books at a very young age, and can even say I read The Firm by John Grisham when I was about 8 years old. Not something that I am proud of now, but when I was around that age (8-12) I would often pass for someone in their 20's when talking to people who did not know me online.
>
> I also had an incredible sense of direction. If I needed to go somewhere, like to my sisters house, I could actually picture the entire route from my house to theirs, in my head, seeing every piece of land along the way (houses, any fenses or walls etc) and this happened with other things as well. Now I have trouble navigating to the most simplest places.
>
> But I think something that was the most remarkable, and something I wish I had today, was my ability to absorb information without even thinking. I would be able to sit in class, on the rug or at a desk, and talk to someone, and when the teacher would ask me what he/she had just said, I could repeat it word for word. This frustrated many of my teachers, as I was distracting the other students, and I think it also had to do that I actually WAS hearing what they were saying ;)
>
> I started going to psychiatrists at a very young age, as my school (which happened to be private) and my parents thought I had behavorial problems/ADD. Around age 7 or 8 I went to Yale University for a battery of tests, and found to be in a very high percentile, scoring I believe a 148-150 something IQ.
>
> My computer skills were something to be reckoned with, although I did not start programming until around the age of 16, but I had been using the computer since the age of 3. I would sit with my mother and play old Sierra games, telling her what to do, since I didn't know how to spell at the time. Basically, I had it made cognitively.
>
> I made the move to Chicago when I was 12, and although it was hard, I dealt with it pretty well, and at my new school, continued to accell greatly at math and science. My teacher would stay after class with me on certain days, and teach me advanced math beyond what our class was doing. The summer after 6th grade, I did an advanced program with National Louis University, that although enjoyable, was a little over my head. Then came the big change. I had to leave the school I was at, and went to a public school near my house. I remember to this day, going into the math teachers class and taking the test to get into advanced math. I scored an 89, but needed a 92 to get in... I was crushed, and things went down hill from there (at least in school). I was still accelling in my other courses, but I started to feel the social pull of "wanting to be cool". So I started acting out and not caring about my studies. I started hanging out with the "cool" kids, but that did not last long. Eventually, I just didn't care about school. I didn't see the point, I didn't need anything from it, it was stupid, I could learn it all on my own.
>
> Panic/anxiety came in High School during the viewing of a movie while out with friends. My mother dismissed the panic attack I had had for well over 45 minutes while at the movie as just me being a hypocondriac... and I thought she was right as it didn't come back... until a few months later. I had panic every day for about 6 months at school, until finally, while watching a movie in a class, I started panicing, went out in the hall, and my whole world literally flipped 360 degrees.
>
> I was put on medication, and went back to school, taking about a week or two before I could go back to classes normally. I still cared nothing for what school had to offer, and went through life just playing video games.
>
> The summer before my senior year of high school, I started working for an internet startup doing programming. I was so not ready for the job, but I did it anyways, and they kept me on, until one day the company basically went under. I got through my senior year, and then took a year off to work, which I did fairly well. I then decided one day that I was going to college, so I drove downtown, said I want to goto school, and I did it.
>
> So that's my story. I've been thinking about CFIDS as I write this, and find it hard to believe I could have something like that, as I never get sick. When I was younger, around 7 or 8, I used to get tonsil infections every month until I finally got my tonsils out, and now I barely ever get sick. I do feel all the things you wrote about CFIDS though, so it's puzzling to me. I have been going to doctors, psychiatrists for years now, how could they not know?
>
> I'd like to add, that while I was reading what you wrote, I kept experiencing something that has been bothering me for a while now. Whenever I try and read, I basically just skip around, and don't really read what I am reading. I find myself just moving over the words, sometimes skipping entire sentences. I have to read stuff over and over again.
>
> And while writing this, I have to keep extreme concentration on what I am writing, and often write things I don't mean to write. I type at incredibly fast speeds (somewhere around 140 WPM) and I never used to have this problem, but now I just write and it's almost as if it's not me.
>
> I'd like to add one more thing, and maybe someone can expand, or comment on this. A few months ago I tried smoking Marijuana. I wanted to see what it was like, as it was the only drug I would ever consider even trying. After only 2 "hits" I coughed for about 5 minutes, and then while standing near my friends computer, felt like I blacked out (while standing up) and when I came to, the room was moving, and I was freaking out. I didn't know what happened, and I thought I was dying, the room was physically moving/swaying, and getting blurry. Someone finally told me I was just high, and when I realized it, the fear went away, and I had one of the best times of my life. I didn't smoke very much, only 3 or 4 times after that and never ever felt panic. Then, my most recent time, about a month ago, I had a terrible panic attack, and it didn't go away. For 2 hours I had this indescribable feeling, but the thing is, it was all in my mind. Everything I felt, all the fear I felt was all in my head. I honestly had no physical manifisation of this attack, my heart rate was totally normal, I had no sweaty palms, nothing was showing itself physically, even though it was all happening in my head, and I felt that it was happening in my body.
>
> I say this just for the pure fact of the interest of it. I cannot wrap my head around the fact that the panic I felt was all in my head. I have this new insight into how the brain works, in that I feel the fears in my brain, somewhere, and then my body feels it too... that's the only way I can explain it, and if it doesn't make sense to you, that's fine because it makes no sense to me.
>
> I'd love to hear from more people, on anything they have to say. Although I wish none of this was happening to me or any of us, it's good to know I'm not alone.
Posted by Siraris on December 19, 2003, at 3:21:45
In reply to Re: Warning, Long Post (With longer post) » Siraris, posted by mtdew on December 19, 2003, at 2:58:58
I sent you an email, don't know if you're checking or not. I don't really know what to say. CFID's sounds like an answer, but I don't know. I honestly can barely read the article, nothing is really sticking in my head I just look at the words and they don't go in.
Have you tried writing this doctor and seeing what he says? I'm interested to see if he responds.
I have no problem with english, as you can see I was a great reader, and I am and have been an excellent writer :-p But yes code right now is not something I can really look at.
Let's try talking through email, it's a lot easier.
Posted by brussell on December 19, 2003, at 12:33:54
In reply to Re: Warning, Long Post (With longer post), posted by Siraris on December 19, 2003, at 3:21:45
Hello,
I'm very sorry about your problem. I'd like to offer a couple of ideas.
I started to develop severe depression and anxiety (exacerbated by a personality disorder) during my first year at the University of Chicago. I didn't have a clue what was happening to me, and like you, simply thought I wasn't sufficiently motivated.
My cognitive abilities eroded shockingly over the next two and a half years (I was misdiagnosed at the counseling center, and received a bad referral that basically made me worse).
By the time I dropped out, I couldn't retain or understand any verbal information, and mathematical or CS notation looked like gibberish.
At this point (seven years later) I think I can identify three factors that let to my cognitive decline:
1. Severe untreated anxiety (which shuts down one's ability to think clearly)
2. Severe untreated depression.
3. Hating school, but being unable to admit it. I was so disappointed with college that I lost all my spirit and motivation. The fact that I kept forcing myself to do the work couldn't make up for the fact that my cognitive functions had largely gone on strike.
In your case, it's possible that the medications you are taking are causing cognitive problems. You could try going off them to see if you do better.I think that it is more likely that you have a problem with one of the following that is NOT being adequately treated by your medication.
1. Depression (it's possible the Paxil is no longer working--SSRIs can poop-out after several years of use--I'd try something different.)
2. ADHD (I think this is a viable possibility--you might want to try stimulants or a stimulating AD like Welbutrin.
3. You might need a break from your career path. Therapy might help you get your focus back and feel more in control of your life.
Best Wishes from a fellow former excessively-high achiever.P.S.--I'm still suffering from severe depression, but I did finally get my brain back.
Posted by Siraris on December 19, 2003, at 14:06:42
In reply to Klonopin and Paxil--cognitive problems, posted by brussell on December 19, 2003, at 12:33:54
I really appreciate your response, and it's good to know you have your cognitive abilities back.
I just went to my psychiatrist and he referred me to one of the worlds best neurologists at University of Chicago. I just made an appointment for MARCH 15... kind of far away, but I guess I can survive for 3 months.
He also is starting to taper me off Klonopin. I want to post in here, although I don't know how many people will read it, that my psychiatrist has been practicing for 40 years, and is a lecturer and member of the Child & Adolescent Psychiatry department at University of Chicago, and I told him about many of the storeis I've read about klonopin. He said he has perscribed it for 40 years, and perscribes it for people to take their entire lives. He has never, ever, not gotten someone off a drug, and that includes Klonopin. I have read a lot of posts on here about people not being able to get off Klonopin, and it scared me to even think of trying to get off, but I trust my psychiatrist very much. I am just saying this so that people who have tried to get off, and can't, should keep trying, and people who are worried about the medication, should realize that it is one of the most helpful medications on the market.
Anyway back to the issue. I think it definitely has to do with my anxiety and panic disorder, and that I have convinced myself there is something wrong with me.
My psychiatrist says he will take me off the Klonopin, and if my panic/anxiety is not quelled by the Paxil, he will put me on something else. If my memory does not come back to me then we will deal with it from there, but he doesn't know why I am having these issues, and I trust in the fact that he is an incredible man and knows what he is doing.
I am just very relieved to hear that my cognition will come back. I am going to see him next week again, to discuss therapy issues, as todays appointment was filled with telling him all my diagnosis, and all the issues I'm having.
Oh and in reference to your stimulant point, I have tried Adderall and Ritilan, and they get me too stimulated to take, and they cause me to have anxiety and panic because of the increased heart rate and jumpiness and whatnot. He is going to perscribe Stratera to me. I tried taking Stratera before, but it didn't work (and he said that it hadn't worked for any of his patients). Since then he has found that Stratera DOES in fact work, Eli-Lilly had misinformed doctors on how to administer it. You now need to build up at 10 mg a dose, and it could take 8-10 weeks to see a result. This would be the best for me, since it is not a stimulant, but still is supposed to have the effects of Ritilan and Adderall.
if you do read this, brussell, you got your cognition back and you are able to study and learn and do coding and whatnot? How did you reach this point from where you were?
Posted by brussell on December 19, 2003, at 17:55:24
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Paxil--cognitive problems, posted by Siraris on December 19, 2003, at 14:06:42
Hey,
I'm really, really glad you're going to see a good neurologist. It sounds like your psychiatrist is top-notch, too. I'm sure you will get this problem under control.
I still have a lot of cognitive problems if I work or take classes (though I did finally graduate from a lousy state college). This problem is mostly due to a borderline personality disorder, which causes me to basically lose my marbles when I'm under stress.
Besides chronic depression, I don't really have problems if I work independently on intellectual pastimes like reading philosophy or learning languages. I can take challenging classes when I have my depression under control, am comfortable with the professor and students, and don't feel too much pressure.
I haven't taken Klonopin, but I can only control my anxiety with benzos (or anti-psychotics, which I hate and won't take). I take about 1-3 mg lorazapan during the day depending on my symptoms. Have you tried taking benzodiazapines during the day? I doubt I could have finished college without them. I don't seem to have a problem with withdrawl--when my anxiety remits I just forget to take them. I have never noticed any cognitive problem with lorazapan (once the sedation side-effect wears off).Good Luck
Posted by Siraris on December 19, 2003, at 18:10:53
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Paxil--cognitive problems » Siraris, posted by brussell on December 19, 2003, at 17:55:24
Well I definitely don't have anything that serious, although I'm not sure. My psychiatrist is definitely top notch as well.
I take Paxil and Klonopin before I goto bed every night and have for a long time. That's what my psychiatrist perscribed, although I will mention taking it during the day... I don't know if that will make too much of a difference, especially with how messed up my sleep schedule is. Sleep is another reason I am going to see this Neurologist.
Thanks for the response :)
Posted by Speed on December 22, 2003, at 18:25:32
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Paxil--cognitive problems » Siraris, posted by brussell on December 19, 2003, at 17:55:24
> Hey,
>
> I'm really, really glad you're going to see a good neurologist. It sounds like your psychiatrist is top-notch, too. I'm sure you will get this problem under control.
>
> I still have a lot of cognitive problems if I work or take classes (though I did finally graduate from a lousy state college). This problem is mostly due to a borderline personality disorder, which causes me to basically lose my marbles when I'm under stress.
>
> Besides chronic depression, I don't really have problems if I work independently on intellectual pastimes like reading philosophy or learning languages. I can take challenging classes when I have my depression under control, am comfortable with the professor and students, and don't feel too much pressure.
>
>
> I haven't taken Klonopin, but I can only control my anxiety with benzos (or anti-psychotics, which I hate and won't take). I take about 1-3 mg lorazapan during the day depending on my symptoms. Have you tried taking benzodiazapines during the day? I doubt I could have finished college without them. I don't seem to have a problem with withdrawl--when my anxiety remits I just forget to take them. I have never noticed any cognitive problem with lorazapan (once the sedation side-effect wears off).
>
> Good LuckHow long did you take the lorazapam at that dose. I have been afraid to take it, as I am afraid of getting addicted to it. It really works when I do take it.
Thanks, Ron
Posted by brussell on December 22, 2003, at 22:11:54
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Paxil--cognitive problems, posted by Speed on December 22, 2003, at 18:25:32
Hey,
Before I started Parnate, I was taking about 4mg/day lorazapan for several weeks. My anxiety is very physical--I literally feel an awful tightness/pain in my gut or chest when it gets bad. Fortunately, the Parnate really nailed the anxiety as well as the depression. I still have bad anxiety in the morning, so I take 1 mg with my first dose of Parnate and frequently need no more. Sometimes I get edgy at night and need another mg to sleep.
Everyone seems to be different regarding dependence. I think if you take the minimum dosage needed to aleviate your symptoms and no more, you are not very likely to become dependent.
Posted by mrgreen on December 31, 2003, at 17:03:08
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Paxil questions please help! » Siraris, posted by Lil Debbie on December 18, 2003, at 16:44:26
I am a 24 old male, M.D./Ph. D. student (Biomedical Engineering / Neurology), and was taking Paxil for four years. The last two years of that period I complained of severe memory loss and sleeping problems, exactly as you described. Thus, I saw several different specialists (Sleep medicine, neurologist, internal medicine etc…) and underwent a large battery of tests. Unfortunately, nobody could find anything wrong or out of place with me. I finally went to see a psychologist who was very familiar with SSRI’s. He was very surprised that the other doctors were not aware of the cognitive problems with Paxil. He informed me that it in the psychologist circle, that it is well known that Paxil causes memory loss and sleeping problems. Supposedly, it is the worst out of all the SSRI’s. He also mentioned that SmithKline Beecham has worked very had to minimize the amount of published data on this.
After gradually stopping Paxil, my memory and sleep improved. Four weeks of being completely off Paxil, I could tell a huge difference. I haven’t taken Paxil for about 2.5 months now, and my memory is close to being about where it used to be. I can think clearly now and wake up feeling refreshed. I am also currently NOT taking any other medication and wasn’t when I was taking Paxil.
It is very sad that documentation about these problems is not widely known. I am sure there are many people out there suffering with the same problems and not knowing it is due to their SSRI. I feel like I lost two years of my life because of this medication.
- paxil memory loss
- paxil sleeping problems> > I am a 22 year old male that was diagnosed with anxiety disorder 7 years ago. At first I was taking 1 mg of klonopin and Imipramine. I now am on .5 mg of klonopin and 10 mg of Paxil. 6 years ago I noticed a decrease in being able to remember/retain information, but as of late it has gotten terribly worse. I am a college student majoring in Computer Science and my mind is extremely important in what I do.
> >
> > Before I was diagnosed with anxiety, I was an incredible student, getting A's in all my classes and being able to remember everything. I could watch movies and remember all sorts of lines, all the characters names... I could read books and remember all sorts of stuff about it, all the little details even from 600 page books.
> >
> > I can barely remember the titles of movies I am watching now, let alone character names and things like that. I read paragraphs of articles and books and forget what I read as soon as I read it. While talking, I put together sentences in an odd fashion, I also forget things that I am going to say and always have a very hard time recalling words (I used to have an excellent vocabulary.
> >
> > I am finding as of late I start talking about things and forget what I am going to say. The other day I was going to bring my car in the garage when I got home, I went in to open the garage door, and instead of opening the door I went to go inside my house, completely forgetting that my car was outside, still on. I have had many more things like this happen as well.
> >
> > I have also had a problem with sleeping... this has been an ongoing thing, but as of late it's even more noticeable. I used to have a very hard time waking up and getting to school. Now, I am on break from my university, and just relaxing. I am finding myself not being able to fall asleep at night, and sleeping for 12 hours a day minimum and still having trouble waking up then.
> >
> > Is this something anyone else has noticed? Can it be cured? If anyone can PLEASE help me, give me any information you have, I would appreciate it so much. I just want my life back to normal. I want to be able to read information and retain it. I used to be such a smart wonderful person, and it feels like I've lost it all.
> >
>
> Response:
> I have been on Paxil for over 7 years. Originally for 'depression' but was later more accurately diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and OCD. I was at 20 mg, then when my anxiety became debilitating, about 5 years ago, I went into therapy and increased my Paxil to 40 mg.
>
> I don't have any answers to your questions, but can tell you that I have been experiencing the same memory loss issues. It has become much worse in about the last year. I have searched the internet a little and can find VERY little about this, except for a posting on this site from 2000 about SSRI's in general and memory loss.
>
> So if it helps to know you're not alone, you're not. And I'm sure there are many others who want to know about the possible effects of long-term Paxil use and memory loss. I especially want to know if it's reversable.
>
Posted by Siraris on December 31, 2003, at 18:03:31
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Paxil questions please help!, posted by mrgreen on December 31, 2003, at 17:03:08
mrgreen - There is no hard evidence on anything you are saying. If you say it is out there, can you provide any of it? I would think with your focus in school, you would have access to such information. My sister who is head of Rhumetology at Denver General has never heard of Paxil causing any sort of memory issues. Clonazepam on the other hand is documented in the PDR as causing some memory issues.
My psychiatrist knows the brain inside out, and has been practicing for 40 years as a psychiatrist. He has been a special consultant to many universities around the country, as well as governments all over the world. He said the only thing I should worry about related to Paxil is sexual disfunction and weight gain. I would think he would be quite aware of any memory problems with Paxil as he has been perscribing it since it came out. He says it is the best drug of it's class out of all the others, relating to side effects.
You are making quite an accusation of SmithKline Beecham with nothing to back it up.
I know I come off as on the offensive towards you mrgreen, but I'm really frustrated hearing different things from everyone. I have done quite a bit of research into this, and as Lil Debbie also said, there is nothing about Paxil and memory loss anywhere.
I don't really know why I am on Paxil, as I am on Clonazepam. I know that when I tried getting off my Clonazepam I felt as if I was striken with a terrible disease, and my panic came back right away after lowering my dose.
If you have any sort of evidence to back up the information about Paxil, I'd love to see it. If it is out there, then SmithKline Beecham is lieing to the public and should be sued.
I'd love to hear more from you.
This is the end of the thread.
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