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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2003, at 7:58:33
In reply to Effects of taking Paxil by a social phobe??? , posted by solo_voyager on November 4, 2003, at 0:06:01
> I am a self-diagnosed social phobe. One of the effects of learning to deal with this is what I term my "pathological independence". I don't normally rely on other people for much of anything. I am very self-contained, capable of taking care of myself and making my own decisions.
>
> Now, with that said, About a year and a half ago the TV ads for Paxil peaked my curiosity about it and what benefits it might have for me. I obtained enough Paxil through surreptitious means to try it for a couple of months in order to see what it's affect on me would be.
>
> One of the major effects was to intensify all my social phobic symptoms. I interpreted this as an indicator that it was likely to be effective on the SP. But, that it would probably require some therapy included along with it to be truely effective, if possible, as a long term solution. I am too private a person to indulge in therapy without stronger motivation than curiosity.
>
> On to my question:
> One of the effects from taking the Paxil, that appears to be a permanent solution, is the elimination of a lifelong condition of urinary frequency and urgency.
> Added note: I was also a chronic bedwetter until my mid teens.
>
> As long as I can remember, I have been subject to urinary urgency, having to relieve myself NOW, not in 5 minutes or so. I would forcibly expell it with the amount being relatively small compared to what others usually do. Then, in a short period of time, I would need to go again with the same urgency and frequency, all day, every day. It seemed to get worse as I aged. Dribbling on myself when it wasn't comvenient to drop everything was pretty standard for me.
>
> Ever since my dabbling with the Paxil, it's almost as if my bladder muscles have ceased spasming. I no longer wake up and need to run to the toilet at night. My urinations are more of a draining of the bladder than it's being forced out of me. I can go almost all day sometimes without needing to go.
>
> I'm sorry to turn this into a discussion of body waste, but that is not what my question is about. It is about a lifelong condition of urgency and frequency suddenly coming to a stop after trying Paxil for about 2 months with no therapy other than my observations of what was happening within me. The frequency and urgency was never an issue during the trial. I didn't even notice it until after I had stopped taking them.
>
> Can anyone give me an explanation of what is at work here? How this has come to be? I'm happy with it. I just don't understand it.
>
> Thx to anyone that can give me a serious informative answer to this.
> S V
Posted by trudy on November 4, 2003, at 9:21:05
In reply to Effects of Paxil on social phobe « solo_voyager, posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2003, at 7:58:33
There's something called pelvic floor muscle dysfunction which means the muscles spasm. This can cause urgency and may cause pain, burning, etc. The paxil may have relaxed the muscles if this was your problem.
Posted by Clayton on November 4, 2003, at 11:06:16
In reply to Re: Effects of Paxil on social phobe, posted by trudy on November 4, 2003, at 9:21:05
I have severe SAD that over the years has cost me jobs, relationships, frienships and normal social interactions.
Paxil was only marginally and intermitttantly effective at helping me.
A new doc added Remaron to the Paxil. It was a real miracle! It saved my life and set me free!
I am doing things I haven't done in decades and without apprehension, much less panic attacks.Docs says Zoloft and Remaron would have the same efect on me.
My mood depresion is also about 95% gone.
I am off Xanax (which did contol the SAD for short durations) to which I was severely addicted. I don't want it anymore! My mind is clear and my cognitive skills and memory have returned.
I don't kwow if it will help you but, if you haven't tried that route, it might be worth an attemt.
Posted by sadmom on November 4, 2003, at 13:03:23
In reply to Effects of Paxil on social phobe « solo_voyager, posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2003, at 7:58:33
Perhaps the urinary frequency was caused by anxiety and the Paxil helped that. The new drug Cymbalta which is coming out next summer is marketed as an anti-depressant and also as a med for a urinary problem.
Posted by zeugma on November 4, 2003, at 19:02:22
In reply to Effects of Paxil on social phobe « solo_voyager, posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2003, at 7:58:33
Paxil is the most anticholinergic SSRI (as anticholinergic as desipramine). Anticholinergics are effective against urinary incontinence; imipramine has been used as a treatment for childhood enuresis (bedwetting) for many years.
Posted by solo_voyager on November 4, 2003, at 21:36:35
In reply to Effects of Paxil on social phobe « solo_voyager, posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2003, at 7:58:33
Thanks Trudy:
That's interesting. It may bear further looking into. Although, there has never been much, if any, pain associated with the problem.Hi Clayton:
I'm glad to hear that you have found relief from the misery SA/SP can bring into one's life. I am not bothered by it much (notice I said much.) any more. While I was younger, it brought much grief into mine. I'm now 60 and have finally adapted to it, or at least have come to terms with it. I live my life as I see fit. I enjoy it. It is interesting. But it is alone. So be it. It's what I'm comfortable with.I will probably not look further into medications. Best of luck guy. I hope your good fortune continues.
Hi sadmom:
Not likely that the SA itself caused the urinary disfunction. It existed before the SA/SP manifested itself. More likely that the urinary disfunction fueled the SA/SP. While it is an anxiety disorder the primary result for me was high stress levels due to forcing myself to acomplish interactions with others, sometimes never ending stress.I don't need any more medication for the urinary disorder. It's fixed. I just want to know how and why!
Hi zeugma:
Now that's interesting. It brings up the thought that it may have abated the urinary dysfunction symptoms enough for me to finish eliminating them all myself.
What's odd about it is that I didn't fully realize that there was a change untill several week after I stopped taking the Paxil. AND, they have never come back!!! If anything, my urinations are becoming more relaxed with time. I find it difficult to believe that the medication was directly responsible for the change. My feeling is that it was a vehicle for the change. Does that make sense to anyone?
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 5, 2003, at 11:21:35
In reply to Re: Effects of Paxil on social phobe, posted by solo_voyager on November 4, 2003, at 21:36:35
You described a "pathological independence" in your original post, and the way you describe it sort of raises a red flag to me that says schizoid personality disorder. People with this disorder are often referred to as "loners"; they have no real desire to associate with others or make friends. It's not uncommon, from what I understand, for this disorder to occur along with social anxiety disorder. I don't believe there are any medication therapies known to be effective for this... therapy could really provide some insight though, and I highly recommend it (regardless of whether or not I'm correct about this SzPD speculation). My most debilitating problems are social anxiety, agoraphobia, and panic disorder, with social anxiety at the forefront. Paxil was the second medication I ever tried and was an absolute horror for me personally. I'm not sure that you mentioned how helpful the Paxil actually is for your SP, but if it's not doing its job in that regard, benzodiazepines are a very good, safe long-term therapy. Klonopin (clonazepam), Xanax (alprazolam), and Ativan (lorazepam) seem to have the best track record for social phobia, though I've heard success stories with Tranxene (clorazepate), Librium (chlordiazepoxide), Valium (diazepam), and Serax (oxazepam) as well.
Michael
Posted by Clayton on November 5, 2003, at 15:55:35
In reply to Re: Effects of Paxil on social phobe » solo_voyager, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 5, 2003, at 11:21:35
I agree on the benzos for anxiety. For panic, Xanax is the best drug on earth and clears your system quickly thus restoring cognitive abilities. It saved my life for a long time.
Proviso: If you are prone to addiction, you must stay away from the benzos. Or at least go with Klonapin. It is the least seductive. I don't like the fact that it lasts for six hours, powerfully sedates me, removes my analytical capabilities and gives me total amnesia. But everyone reacts differently. Some people find it a salvation.
Many (most?) docs are paranoid about benzos. Thet've been educated that way and they think "first of all, do no harm" means "take no risk". It's a crime to deny these drugs to people in emotioal agony and torment.
Posted by solo_voyager on November 5, 2003, at 21:12:35
In reply to Re: Effects of Paxil on social phobe » solo_voyager, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 5, 2003, at 11:21:35
Hi Mike:
I hope you don't mind my calling you Mike. In the real world that's what I am. I prefer it myself.Not to worry, it's not likely that I have any problems of the type you refer to. My use of that term is predicated on the fact that I am self sufficient in most areas where I need to be in order to conduct my life in a satisfactory manner. I'm pretty certain that it is more of an adaption to the SA/SP that anything. From my own personal logic system it follows that if I want to get my life together, I'd better learn how to do it and not rely on anyone else to do it for me. I am not able to ask anyone for anything for myself (I can deal effectivley for someone else though.). If I want it, I'd better get it together myself. Now that I know how to accomplish those things I need to, I have no need to ask anyone for anything: "pathological independance"! The greatest problem is that I will not allow anyone to do anything for me now that I can do it myself: pathological independence! There are a few exceptions to that. There are a few friends (very few,1 or 2) that I will allow to do things for me. Not because I want them to, but as a gift to them, even though it makes me uncomfortable. They derive satisfaction from it. That's the true test of whether they have reached my inner circle or not.
As far as the benefit I derived from taking Paxil. I'm not really sure if I can say there have been any.Ican see why, for many people, it could be a very bad experience. I wouldn't recommend for anyone to do it as I did, without a guide to assist you through the more difficult aspects. I researched it. I knew what to expect and knew I could deal with it. I was not wrong in my assessment. Other than the change that instigated my original post here, I can see no other benefit that I have obtained from it other than an understanding of what it can potentially do. From it's actions on me, I believe it could be effective in dealing with SA/SP if it was coupled with an effective method of therapy. The problem in my mind is that there are very few effective therapy methods and all of them are still suspect as far as I'm concerned. My trial of it was more out of curiosity than need.
Mike and Clayton:
Part of the reason I posted this originally in the other forum is that I have no interest in whether the pink pill is better than the blue one or if two greens are even better. I realize that these things are of major import in your lives right now. I do not mean for this to be critical of anyone here in any way. I am not here because I am looking for a medication. I'm beginning to think that there's not much hope of finding an answer to my question here, maybe it's not available anywhere. I will continue to monitor this thread for input on my question, But, I have no interest in medications.
Thanks all.
S V
Posted by Clayton on November 5, 2003, at 22:23:46
In reply to Re: Effects of Paxil on social phobe, posted by solo_voyager on November 5, 2003, at 21:12:35
Solo,
"if I want to get my life together, I'd better learn how to do it and not rely on anyone else to do it for me"
"If I want it, I'd better get it together myself."
"I have no interest in medications"I sicerely admire your attitude re: sef-reliance and personal responsibiity. I would like to get there myself. (I do not admire the pathological independance, at least to the degree you profess to possess it).
I take meds so that I can get out of bed in the morning and make it to the shower and then work in order to subsist. My best thinking, all my will power and exercise of free choice can't seem to accomplish this. I take meds so that I don't have SAD attacks in front of my boss who doesn't understand that it is a phobia and not insanity. I have lost jobs because of this. If I'm going to take meds, it's my responsibility to find the most efficacious and least damaging. But I still like your attitude - independance and responsibility - best.
"I'm beginning to think that there's not much hope of finding an answer to my question here, maybe it's not available anywhere."
You may very well be dead right. And that frightens me. But I notice that people who learn to accept this accrue a certain measure of peace.
Despite stunning advances, psychiatry and understansing of the brain and nervous system are still literally in thr dark ages.
In the future, after we are gone, answers may be found. They might involve meds or gene therapy or, most likely, something we can't yet imagine.
We were born too soon. Tough luck. We must carry on and try to be kind and to do what very little we can to ameliorate the suffering of others. Maximize happiness and minimize pain as the opportunities present themselves. What else can life possibly be for? This is the only answer for now. Act otherwise and you reduce it all to a cruel joke.
Kindest Regards
Posted by solo_voyager on November 7, 2003, at 0:18:28
In reply to Re: Effects of Paxil on social phobe, posted by Clayton on November 5, 2003, at 22:23:46
Hi Clay:
I understand how meds can make one's life easier to deal with. I do not look down on those that find them to be their best course of action. After all, there are umpteen billion people on the face of the earth and they're all different. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. My way is the one for me.I've gone through the inability to function more than marginally in the world most people define as normal. I couldn't deal effectively with superiors, the job fiding process or in building a personal social life. So, I removed them from my world.
I am self employed, I am my own boss (I've never had a more demanding one either!). And, I had given up on a social life. That last one is a bit of an over statement because I do have a few (very few by choice)friends, bless their hearts, that try very hard to keep me socially active. They chase me down every week or two and drag me over for dinner usually to meet another female being paraded by to see if she'll catch my attention. His wife is bound and determined to get me married off one way or the other. Woman is persistant. I'll give her that.One has to take responsibility for their life. Everything that happens to you is your doing. You either made it happen or you allowed it to happen to you.
Life is a learning process. If you have an unpleasant experience it's up to you to see that it doesn't happen again. Sometimes there's a lot to learn before you get it down pat.
Take the cards you're dealt and play them. Stop whining about how bad a hand you've been dealt and start bluffing.
Faith works miracles. Faith in yourself works the biggest most profound ones.
When you trip and fall and skin your nose, get back up, dust yourself off and try it again from another angle. Sooner or later you'll get it right.
As long as you can feel pain and take another breath, you're ahead of the game.
Everything is temporary, nothing is forever, not even the universe. It includes the good as well as the bad times.
The only thing of any import is that when it's all over and done, you've done more good than harm.Those are some of the things I keep prodding myself with to keep me going and focused on getting and keeping things together. I relize that many of them make sense only to me. But, you get my drift.
That's it. Gotta run. Take care guy.
S V
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2003, at 1:40:08
In reply to Re: Effects of Paxil on social phobe, posted by Clayton on November 5, 2003, at 22:23:46
> Despite stunning advances, psychiatry and understansing of the brain and nervous system are still literally in thr dark ages.
I'd like follow-ups regarding psychiatry in general to be redirected to Psycho-Social-Babble, thanks.
Bob
PS: And those regarding posting policies to be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2003, at 18:45:10
In reply to Redirect: psychiatry, posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2003, at 1:40:08
> PS: And those regarding posting policies to be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20031008/msgs/277582.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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