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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Robert Fairburn on October 26, 2003, at 6:56:25
I was reading an article which stated, that one of the reasons why ssri drugs poop out is that by stopping reuptake it allows serotinon to remain the synaptic cleft and hence they have longer contact with MAO and hence more serotinon gets destroyed. Eventually this process leaves the person so deficient in serotinon that the SSRI drugs has nothing to work with. Hence we have poop out syndrome
The opposite happens with MAOI drugs which helps builds up neurotramsmitter levels and hence doesn't suffer poop out syndrome. Some of our MAOI fans out there have been on them for 20 years plus. Ive never heard some one being on a SSRI drug that long and it still works. Maybee our friend ACE is correct about his out and out love for nardil.
Im not saying that SSRI drugs have no use but there basic design preset is flawed and in the long term they have problems
Okay you chemists out there please respond
Regards Robert
Posted by helenag on October 26, 2003, at 14:14:51
In reply to Are SSRI drugs a bad idea in the long run, posted by Robert Fairburn on October 26, 2003, at 6:56:25
You may have something there. I can't recall how long I was on Prozac, at least three years???, but it quit "working." The official reason the pdoc gave me was that I was drinking and the alcohol interfered with the med. That may be so...but the depressive episode that landed me in the hospital came after five weeks of sobriety with a 40mg Prozac dose. So, go figure.
As far as the chemical "theory" of mood disorders are concerned, don't you think that it operates on an assumption? The drug has an effect; the drug causes this to happen within the synapse, ergo, chemical imbalance creates the mood disorder. There has to be a lot more going on in the neurons. The science of this is in its infancy.
There is definitely a chemical feature to psychiatric illness. ANyone who has suffered side effects from psychotropic drugs knows this. I myself became a manic woman from geodon and crashed into a horrible depression once from taking reglan.
Guess we all need to be reminded once in a while how much we deal with the unknown when it comes to meds. peace, helen
Posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 20:29:13
In reply to Are SSRI drugs a bad idea in the long run, posted by Robert Fairburn on October 26, 2003, at 6:56:25
> I was reading an article which stated, that one of the reasons why ssri drugs poop out is that by stopping reuptake it allows serotinon to remain the synaptic cleft and hence they have longer contact with MAO and hence more serotinon gets destroyed. Eventually this process leaves the person so deficient in serotinon that the SSRI drugs has nothing to work with. Hence we have poop out syndrome
Two things: I believe that SSRIs have the potential to cause permanent receptor damage.
Also, SSRIs deplete dopamine. As stated by an eminent neurologist we lose 60% of the dopamine in the substantia nigra by age 60...if SSRIs speed this process up we could be seeing a lot of ex-SSRI users with Parkinsons. In my opinion SSRIs work in a much less-natural fashion than that of MAOIs.
> The opposite happens with MAOI drugs which helps builds up neurotramsmitter levels and hence doesn't suffer poop out syndrome.
People sometimes do suffer poop-out on MAOIs, but from what I've seen it always seems reversible...whereas on SSRIs it definately does not. Also, (temporary) poop-out with MAOIs are rare, despite what some say.Some of our MAOI fans out there have been on them for 20 years plus.
I've even heard 30 years, even- with no adverse effects on any organs.
Ive never heard some one being on a SSRI drug that long and it still works. Maybee our friend ACE is correct about his out and out love for nardil.
I'm always correct! Well...mostly...I hope!
> Im not saying that SSRI drugs have no use but there basic design preset is flawed and in the long term they have problems
>
> Okay you chemists out there please respond
>
> Regards Robert
I agree Robert. I believe SSRIs possess a toxicity which is absent from other classes off drugs. I believe SSRIs have the potential to CAUSE long-term depression- ie when one goes of an SSRI, if they were only treated for OCD and Not depression, they suffer rebound depression. And the only way out is to re-start the SSRI.They also 'poop-out' which has the effect of starting depression.
There is some good books on this- "Prozac Backlash" and "Talking back to Prozac" . I'm not an anti-psychiatrist but I do believe a lot of what the antipsychiatrists say about SSRIs is valid.
Ofcourse, the above is only my opinion and we all are free to believe what we want. People are free to take an SSRI if the want.
I put forth my view (in a much more technical fashion) on another website- and they all ostrasized me!!
Ace.
Posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 20:38:15
In reply to Re: Are SSRI drugs a bad idea in the long run » Robert Fairburn, posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 20:29:13
I should of added that I believe their is a some nonsense in the Breggin book, in particular. The way he believes depression is best treated is nonsense, IMO. In his other book, "Toxic Psychiatry" he really goes to town with nonsense I think...he slanders EVERY psychoactive drug, saying essentially that a fully blown psychotic person needs only love and their brain is functioning normal.
He states that all psychiatric drugs interfere with normal brain functioning: I don't believe seeing illusions, thinking you are a dead person, having constant and severe anxiety, constantly having to touch things to 'protect' yourself from 'pain' (OCD), being so depressed you can't put food to your mouth, etc etc is 'normal brain functioning'.
Ace.
Posted by loolot on October 27, 2003, at 20:51:05
In reply to Re: Are SSRI drugs a bad idea in the long run » Robert Fairburn, posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 20:29:13
There is an antidepressant in Europe called tianeptine, which actually lowers amounts of seratonin in the bloodstream. It is actually being used as an asthma treatment, I am interested in it for both reasons. The basic concept behind the drug is that excess serotonin may cause depression and asthma in some.
Posted by Questionmark on October 30, 2003, at 4:46:02
In reply to Are SSRI drugs a bad idea in the long run, posted by Robert Fairburn on October 26, 2003, at 6:56:25
> "I was reading an article which stated, that one of the reasons why ssri drugs poop out is that by stopping reuptake it allows serotinon to remain the synaptic cleft and hence they have longer contact with MAO and hence more serotinon gets destroyed. Eventually this process leaves the person so deficient in serotinon that the SSRI drugs has nothing to work with. Hence we have poop out syndrome."
Fascinating. i never thought about that.
> The opposite happens with MAOI drugs which helps builds up neurotramsmitter levels and hence doesn't suffer poop out syndrome. Some of our MAOI fans out there have been on them for 20 years plus. Ive never heard some one being on a SSRI drug that long and it still works. Maybee our friend ACE is correct about his out and out love for nardil.
Wow, that would be great. i'm so worried about Nardil pooping out before i'm ready to go off. i hope that's true, for the most part. Makes me feel bad for all the SSRI users out there though.
> Im not saying that SSRI drugs have no use but there basic design preset is flawed and in the long term they have problems
>
> Okay you chemists out there please respond
>
> Regards Robert
This is the end of the thread.
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