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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by don_bristol on July 26, 2003, at 14:26:34
I live in the UK and a lot of lists of foods to avoid when taking MAOIs refer to "fava beans".
This is not a term I am familiar with in the UK. I guess it is a sort of green bean eaten in the pod.
So if I am taking MAOIs then do I need to avoid all beans which are eaten in the pod like those "fava beans"? Does that mean I need to avoid the following?
(1) mangetout
(2) haricot beans
(3) french beans
(4) runner beans
(Aplogies if some of these names are not so well know to Americans!)
Posted by maxime on July 26, 2003, at 16:07:22
In reply to MAOI: what are fava beans? Am in UK, posted by don_bristol on July 26, 2003, at 14:26:34
Maxime the vegetarian here! Fava beans are also called broad beans (pods)if that helps you at all. I have checked the most updated list on foods containing tyramine etc. and fave beans are to be avoided.
I have no idea why it's restricted to the fava bean. But I have eaten every other bean and had no reaction at all. Plus, the lists always state "fava bean" which is precise.
Beans beans they are good for your heart ... well you know how the rest of the childhood song goes.
I am tempted to try the fava bean in a small quantity and see what happens. I have eaten and entire cheddar cheese sandwhich on several occasions and nothing happened - no headache, no rise in blood pressure, nada. Of course I tested only a bit of cheese first.
Hope this helps.
Maxime
> I live in the UK and a lot of lists of foods to avoid when taking MAOIs refer to "fava beans".
>
> This is not a term I am familiar with in the UK. I guess it is a sort of green bean eaten in the pod.
>
> So if I am taking MAOIs then do I need to avoid all beans which are eaten in the pod like those "fava beans"? Does that mean I need to avoid the following?
>
> (1) mangetout
> (2) haricot beans
> (3) french beans
> (4) runner beans
>
>
> (Aplogies if some of these names are not so well know to Americans!)
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 26, 2003, at 16:13:20
In reply to MAOI: what are fava beans? Am in UK, posted by don_bristol on July 26, 2003, at 14:26:34
> I live in the UK and a lot of lists of foods to avoid when taking MAOIs refer to "fava beans".
>
> This is not a term I am familiar with in the UK. I guess it is a sort of green bean eaten in the pod.
>
> So if I am taking MAOIs then do I need to avoid all beans which are eaten in the pod like those "fava beans"? Does that mean I need to avoid the following?
>
> (1) mangetout
> (2) haricot beans
> (3) french beans
> (4) runner beans
>
>
> (Aplogies if some of these names are not so well know to Americans!)Different species altogether.
Fava beans are also known as broad beans, or Windsor beans, or pigeon beans, or horse beans, or English beans. The pods can be immense (over 12" long), and are quite flat (hence, broad bean). The others you mentioned are safe.
Lar
Posted by don_bristol on July 27, 2003, at 5:03:00
In reply to Re: MAOI: what are fava beans? Am in UK, posted by Larry Hoover on July 26, 2003, at 16:13:20
Don wrote:
> >
> > So if I am taking MAOIs then do I need to avoid all beans which are eaten in
> > the pod like those "fava beans"? Does that mean I need to avoid the following?
> >
> > (1) mangetout
> > (2) haricot beans
> > (3) french beans
> > (4) runner beans
> >Lar wrote:
>
> Different species altogether.
>
> Fava beans are also known as broad beans, or Windsor beans, or pigeon beans,
> or horse beans, or English beans. The pods can be immense (over 12" long),
> and are quite flat (hence, broad bean). The others you mentioned are safe.
>Wow. I would never have guessed that the "favas bean" had tyramine and the other species of bean did not. Thank you for pointing that out.
The only thing is that I do not recognise the many names you gave! From your description, I think you are saying that fava beans are the same as "runner beans". Can you or anyone else confirm that.
Posted by don_bristol on July 27, 2003, at 5:08:28
In reply to Re: MAOI: what are fava beans? Am in UK, posted by maxime on July 26, 2003, at 16:07:22
Maxine wrote:
>
> I have no idea why it's restricted to the fava bean. But I have
> eaten every other bean and had no reaction at all. Plus, the
> lists always state "fava bean" which is precise.
>
Maxine, thanks for your reply. I am a bit suspicious when there is such a precise reference to "fava beans" but to no other as being a problem for those taking MAOIs.I remember that Chianti wine was always seens as a problem but other red wines were not. In time this was broadened to include the other red wines.
So maybe it is fava beans for now and maybe later it will include other beans.
Can I clarify something else you wrote. You said you had eaten lots of other beans. Are these also beans you are in the pod or were they just the bean seeds which you ate?
BTW are you one of those people who do not get much of a tyramine reaction when on MAOIs? I gather than some people are more sensitive to this than others.
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 27, 2003, at 6:58:50
In reply to Re: MAOI: what are fava beans? Am in UK, posted by don_bristol on July 27, 2003, at 5:03:00
> > > (4) runner beans
> > >
>
> Lar wrote:
> >
> > Different species altogether.
> >
> > Fava beans are also known as broad beans, or Windsor beans, or pigeon beans,
> > or horse beans, or English beans. The pods can be immense (over 12" long),
> > and are quite flat (hence, broad bean). The others you mentioned are safe.
> >
>
> Wow. I would never have guessed that the "favas bean" had tyramine and the other species of bean did not. Thank you for pointing that out.
>
> The only thing is that I do not recognise the many names you gave!I was afraid of that.
>From your description, I think you are saying that fava beans are the same as "runner beans". Can you or anyone else confirm that.
I'd have to guess that you're referring to Scarlet Runner beans. They're Phaseolus coccineus. (Genus species)
Fava beans are Vicia faba.
Haricot, or French beans are Phaseolus vulgaris.
The genus Vicia is of Old World origin, probably domesticated in the Mediterranean basin. The genus Phaseolus is from the New World.
The only places I've ever seen fava beans are in an Italian market, or at a roadside stand set up by an Italian market gardener.
The beans you'll find everywhere else are the safe ones. That includes dried beans (e.g. navy beans).
Lar
Posted by maxime on July 27, 2003, at 13:25:57
In reply to Re: MAOI: what are fava beans? Am in UK » maxime, posted by don_bristol on July 27, 2003, at 5:08:28
> Maxine wrote:
> >
> > I have no idea why it's restricted to the fava bean. But I have
> > eaten every other bean and had no reaction at all. Plus, the
> > lists always state "fava bean" which is precise.
> >
>
>
> Maxine, thanks for your reply. I am a bit suspicious when there is such a precise reference to "fava beans" but to no other as being a problem for those taking MAOIs.
>
> I remember that Chianti wine was always seens as a problem but other red wines were not. In time this was broadened to include the other red wines.
>
> So maybe it is fava beans for now and maybe later it will include other beans.
>
> Can I clarify something else you wrote. You said you had eaten lots of other beans. Are these also beans you are in the pod or were they just the bean seeds which you ate?
>
> BTW are you one of those people who do not get much of a tyramine reaction when on MAOIs? I gather than some people are more sensitive to this than others.I've eaten beans in the pods and out of the pods. I eat a lot of black beans and kidney beans as well.
I guess I am one of those people who don't get much of a reaction but I still approach each forbiden food with caution.
I did have a really bad experience from soy sauce. But now I use something called Bragg and it's like soy sauce only it's not fermented and it is made of amino acids. It seems to be only available in health food stores.
Also because I am vegetarian, I don't eat any of the meat/fish foods so maybe that is another reason why I haven't had too many reactions.
Next on my list to try is MISO. I am very nervous about this one because of my reaction to the soy sauce. But I love MISO soup and if I can eat it without a reaction then I can eat tempeh (fermented soy).
My basic rule for an MAOI diet is NEW=alright and OLD/Fermented=bad. This includes eating fruit and vegetables that are over ripe because they becoming fermented (especially fruit).
Max
Posted by maxime on July 27, 2003, at 15:27:28
In reply to Re: MAOI: what are fava beans? Am in UK-Don, posted by maxime on July 27, 2003, at 13:25:57
hi. just a quick question to satisfy my curiosity.
In England local calls are charged on a "pay per service" unlike in the US. How does this effect the time you can spend on the Internet. Does it make it really expensive. Would having an ethernet or high speed access bring down the cost.
I've always wondered about that but never asked anyone.
OK, to keep this on topic I just wanted to mention that I plan on finding out what makes fava beans so taboo and the tyramine level. :-)
Maxime
Posted by maxime on July 27, 2003, at 15:46:54
In reply to Re: MAOI: what are fava beans? off topic to Don, posted by maxime on July 27, 2003, at 15:27:28
Hey Don- I found the answer. See below
MaximeFava beans contain levodopa, the same chemical in Sinemet, Madopar, Dopar, Larodopa, and other levodopa-containing medicines used to treat Parkinsons disease (PD). In fact, the entire fava plant, including leaves, stems, pods, and immature beans, contains levodopa.
The amount of levodopa can vary greatly, depending on the species of fava, the area where it's grown, soil conditions, rainfall, and other factors. It appears that the young pod and the immature (green) beans inside the pod contain the greatest amount of levodopa, and the mature, or dried bean, the least. Three ounces (about 84 grams or ½ cup) of fresh green fava beans, or three ounces of canned green fava beans, drained, may contain about 50-100 mg of levodopa. If using the young pod as well as the beans, the amount of levodopa may be greater than that in the fresh beans alone.
Are there any problems associated with eating fava beans?Yes, there a number of concerns to be aware of:
Variable levodopa amounts. Because fava plants have varying amounts of levodopa, it's possible to get either too much or too little levodopa. Too little levodopa will not relieve PD symptoms; and too much levodopa can cause overmedication effects, such as dyskinesia - particularly if other PD medications are being used at the same time. Also, the levodopa can cause nausea in some people.
Monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) use. Another consideration is the use of fava for people who take MAOIs. These include: isocarboxazid (Marplan); phenelzine (Nardil); tranylcypromine (Parnate); and selegiline (deprenyl, Carbex, Eldepryl).
MAOIs taken in combination with pressor agents (foods high in dopamine, tyramine and phenylethylamine), can bring about a dangerous, and sometimes fatal, increase in blood pressure. Levodopa in medications or in fava can convert to dopamine in the bloodstream. It should be noted that selegiline is a different type of MAOI (MAOI-type B), and in the amount normally used by people with PD (10 mg daily), it is not thought to pose a risk when used with dopamine. However, people using any MAOI should discuss foods containing pressor agents with their physicians and dietitians.
Posted by don_bristol on July 27, 2003, at 17:08:52
In reply to Re: MAOI: what are fava beans? off topic to Don, posted by maxime on July 27, 2003, at 15:27:28
> hi. just a quick question to satisfy my curiosity.
>
> In England local calls are charged on a "pay per service" unlike in the US. How does this effect the time you can spend on the Internet. Does it make it really expensive. Would having an ethernet or high speed access bring down the cost.
>
> I've always wondered about that but never asked anyone.
>
> OK, to keep this on topic I just wanted to mention that I plan on finding out what makes fava beans so taboo and the tyramine level. :-)
>
> MaximeMaxine, we have "pay as you go" but we also have unlimited use. Unlimited is approx 25 US dollars and you need to dial up. There are also some slow broadband schemes (150 K baud) for about 30 US dollars and these use an ethernet card to attach to a cable modem.
600 K baud broadband costs us about 35 to 40 US dollars.
Few people use "pay as you go" unless they are very light users.
Back to being on topic now!
Posted by don_bristol on July 27, 2003, at 17:15:37
In reply to Re: MAOI: what are fava beans? FOUND THE ANSWER!, posted by maxime on July 27, 2003, at 15:46:54
> Fava beans contain levodopa, the same chemical
> in Sinemet, Madopar, Dopar, Larodopa, and other
> levodopa-containing medicines used to treat Parkinsons
> disease (PD). In fact, the entire fava plant,
> including leaves, stems, pods, and immature beans,
> contains levodopa.
>
> The amount of levodopa can vary greatly, depending on
> the species of fava,Maxime, the thing I can't believe is that this one variety of bean contains high levels of levodopa and all the other varieties do not contains high levels. Surely the world of plants isn't like that? I would guess that another similar variety might contain quite a lot of levodopa.
-- snip --
> MAOIs taken in combination with pressor agents (foods high
> in dopamine, tyramine and phenylethylamine), can bring
> about a dangerous, and sometimes fatal, increase in
> blood pressure.
Isn't the phenylethylamine, which you mention, a common sweetener used in low-sugar fizzy drinks? Or am I getting this mixed up with something else. The important thing to ask you or anyone else here is do I need to avoid any foods in order to avoid phenylethylamine?
Posted by maxime on July 27, 2003, at 20:01:52
In reply to Re: MAOI: what are fava beans? FOUND THE ANSWER!, posted by don_bristol on July 27, 2003, at 17:15:37
I can believe it. Plants, like people, have their own genetic make up.
I would use the lists of foods to avoid as a guide. For instance chocolate has phenylethylamine and that is why it is on the list. High amount of dopamine is found in soy products which is why it is on the list (although I consume a huge amount of soy products - soy milk, soy "ice-cream", tofu and nothing has ever happened).
I would say "chill" Don, don't worry too much the restricted foods or trying to find new ones. :-)
Be cautious and that is best one can do. If you eat something that gives you a reaction, don't eat it again. Also maybe you would feel safer if your doctor gave you an emergency pill in case your blood pressure does spike.Peace, Maxime.
> Maxime, the thing I can't believe is that this one variety of bean contains high levels of levodopa and all the other varieties do not contains high levels. Surely the world of plants isn't like that? I would guess that another similar variety might contain quite a lot of levodopa.
>
> -- snip --
>
> > MAOIs taken in combination with pressor agents (foods high
> > in dopamine, tyramine and phenylethylamine), can bring
> > about a dangerous, and sometimes fatal, increase in
> > blood pressure.
>
>
> Isn't the phenylethylamine, which you mention, a common sweetener used in low-sugar fizzy drinks? Or am I getting this mixed up with something else. The important thing to ask you or anyone else here is do I need to avoid any foods in order to avoid phenylethylamine?
This is the end of the thread.
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