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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cubbybear on April 25, 2003, at 2:17:45
Sorry for the long post, but please read on:The benzo withdrawal problem is so common and now it's my turn. Last July, I started on 4 mg/daily of Klonopin at bedtime to help me sleep. Then I got down to 3.75 in December. I stayed at that point for 3 more months until my depression went into remission. Then, agreeing with my pdoc, we decided to proceed with the decrease once again. I did fine for a while, from 3.75 to 3.50 the next week to 3.25 the next week to 3.0, 2.75, to 2.50, then OOPS! I felt totally ill, anxious in a way I never felt before, and my entire sleep mechanism shut down. Disgusting feeling.
My %$*!~!!!! pdoc was hell-bent on continuing the reductions, with no chance to let me get accustomed to the 2.5 dose, let alone going back to 2.75. His attitude was--would you believe--these were NOT withdrawal symptoms, it's your own personality because you're so sensitive and worry about everything! And he refused to write a script so I could maintain the 2.5 dose or backpedal to 2.75. So I got myself another pdoc in another hospital who is much more amenable. She wrote a script so I could go back to 2.75; and so last night, I finally slept the night away and feel better. But what about the future? Some day, I'd like to be off this medication.
I realize that everyone is different, but I'd like to hear from all of you who had difficulties coming off Klonopin. What kind of ultra-slow reduction plan did you use? What about .25 mg. reduction every 2 weeks instead of every week? What about going in increments of .125 mg (impractical to break tablet however), or what?
Please, let's share experiences.
Posted by Dragonslayer on April 25, 2003, at 8:55:31
In reply to Klonopin withdrawal (and a reckless pdoc), posted by cubbybear on April 25, 2003, at 2:17:45
"What kind of ultra-slow reduction plan did you use? What about .25 mg. reduction every 2 weeks instead of every week? "
This sounds about right by my experience. I still use the .125mg dose - get a good pill cutter - on occassion. So, I can't speak to being totally off. Most would find this dose nothing, but it does it for me, so I'm OK with it. I cut at .125mg installments every 2-3 weeks and did a .125mg dose consistently every other day for about 3 weeks. I still experienced some increased anxious feelings, but not unmanageable, just uncomfortable. With me, the difference between "normal" and "not normal" anxiety is distinguishable. Are you going for totally not using K at all or cutting to a lower dose? And why - as I'm curious? Benzo are great drugs when used as intended and have been around for decades with great results. People have horror stories, but my experience was and is good with K. At the time I REALLY needed it, Klonopin changed my life for the better. Good Luck.
Posted by cubbybear on April 25, 2003, at 10:12:51
In reply to Re: Klonopin withdrawal (and a reckless pdoc), posted by Dragonslayer on April 25, 2003, at 8:55:31
. Are you going for totally not using K at all or cutting to a lower dose? And why - as I'm curious?
My hope is for a gradual reduction and eventual stopping of it entirely. My decades-old problem is not anxiety/panic, but rather being prone to Major Depression. I've taken MAOI Parnate anti-depressant for years and it also serves well against anxiety. Whenever the anxiety got out of hand --as with transient friction at work or one night of insomnia, I'd use .5 mg Xanax-- maybe on the average of once a month.
Yet, the way things evolved last year (I'm living in a foreign country, by the way), I was given Klonopin for the sleep problems.
Regardless of how safe it is, I just don't like the thought of being on a benzo of any kind on a permanent basis.. I never thought I'd wind up on anything that causes dependency. and so I want to be off it some day. I believe I can manage OK with the anti-depressant alone and a benzo like Xanax or Klonopin just once in a while. Hope this makes sense.
Posted by Dragonslayer on April 25, 2003, at 10:21:28
In reply to Re: Klonopin withdrawal (and a reckless pdoc) » Dragonslayer, posted by cubbybear on April 25, 2003, at 10:12:51
I think your plan sounds good. Everybody is unique as to what works for them and their comfort level in treatment options. I had to make peace with the K use. I intially bucked it and that turned into a bad judgement call. I'm happy with the usage I have now and would use it at a higher dosage or frequency if I felt I needed to. Again, I hope you work out something that's comfortable for you. I do think the "go slow" method is advisable.
Posted by Snoozy on April 25, 2003, at 11:50:51
In reply to Klonopin withdrawal (and a reckless pdoc), posted by cubbybear on April 25, 2003, at 2:17:45
I wasn't on Klonopin, but Xanax, and I very gradually stopped it. I can't advise on the frequency of dose reductions, but there is something I did in my Xanax withdrawl when I wasn't able to cut the tablets more. I would take the smaller dosage one night, and then go back to my previous dose for a few days, then the smaller one, gradually decreasing the days on the higher dose, until I was switching every other day, then take the next step downward in dosage. I hope I explained that so it makes sense.
I am bothered when a pdoc prescribes a benzo, but then does not give you an adequate taper schedule when you want or they want you to stop the drug. I've read a few posts this week of this same type of situation that have bothered me. It's fine if the dr wants you to stop taking the drug, but why can't they give you a humane tapering off if the drug isn't causing any problems? Benzo withdrawl doesn't have to be hell on earth.
Sorry if that seems harsh, but that really bugs me!!
Good luck to you.
> Sorry for the long post, but please read on:The benzo withdrawal problem is so common and now it's my turn. Last July, I started on 4 mg/daily of Klonopin at bedtime to help me sleep. Then I got down to 3.75 in December. I stayed at that point for 3 more months until my depression went into remission. Then, agreeing with my pdoc, we decided to proceed with the decrease once again. I did fine for a while, from 3.75 to 3.50 the next week to 3.25 the next week to 3.0, 2.75, to 2.50, then OOPS! I felt totally ill, anxious in a way I never felt before, and my entire sleep mechanism shut down. Disgusting feeling.
> My %$*!~!!!! pdoc was hell-bent on continuing the reductions, with no chance to let me get accustomed to the 2.5 dose, let alone going back to 2.75. His attitude was--would you believe--these were NOT withdrawal symptoms, it's your own personality because you're so sensitive and worry about everything! And he refused to write a script so I could maintain the 2.5 dose or backpedal to 2.75. So I got myself another pdoc in another hospital who is much more amenable. She wrote a script so I could go back to 2.75; and so last night, I finally slept the night away and feel better. But what about the future? Some day, I'd like to be off this medication.
> I realize that everyone is different, but I'd like to hear from all of you who had difficulties coming off Klonopin. What kind of ultra-slow reduction plan did you use? What about .25 mg. reduction every 2 weeks instead of every week? What about going in increments of .125 mg (impractical to break tablet however), or what?
> Please, let's share experiences.
Posted by Mishal on April 29, 2003, at 4:20:11
In reply to Klonopin withdrawal (and a reckless pdoc), posted by cubbybear on April 25, 2003, at 2:17:45
Klonopin withdrawal can be helllike for those with marked personality disorders, or should I mean underlying psychologic disorders. If your anxiety is of some biological reasons, your chances to experience withdrawal symptoms are high. Yes the anxiety can be more severe than you first experienced that is because klonopin or drugs in this class reduces brain's ability to tolerate stress. But this is quite a transient process and once you are completely off the medication, brain will regain the enduring power. But with underlying disorders like generalized anxiety disorder or bipolar mood disorders, it will not be a nice idea to get off klonopin or similar drugs that helps you much.
There are many effective ways to minimize drug withdrawal symptoms. One is to substitute with another drug that will compensate the absence of the withdrawing drug. Mood stabilizers are widely used for this purpose and tegretol is the best studied drug. Take tegretol doses in order to develop effective tegretol blood levels and withdraw klonopin slowly. Maximum allowed tegretol dosage is 400 to 600 mg for this purpose. This should be done under the supervision of a psycdoc. I have a successful experience with tegretol.
Posted by MattD on April 29, 2003, at 15:38:56
In reply to Klonopin withdrawal (and a reckless pdoc), posted by cubbybear on April 25, 2003, at 2:17:45
I've come off Klonopin 5mg a few times. Here's my two cents worth.
Do it slowly, over 8 or so weeks. More importantly, do it as slowly as you want to. Find a doc who will accomodate this wish.
Get a pill cutter; you'll need one as you taper (unless you're on brand Klonopin).
Get another benzo to use prn--xanax would be my suggestion, or ativan.
I felt no withdrawl coming off Klonopin after a long time on it. But I did it very slowly. If I had felt withdrawl, I would have gone back up on dosage and tapered even more slowly. There shouldn't be a rush to get off the drug, unless one is pregnant or has liver problems or something to that effect. So, just do it as slowly as you want (take 6 weeks, 6 months, whatever). If you do it slowly enough, with another benzo to use prn, you shouldn't have significant problems.
Good luck,
Matt
Posted by Guy on April 29, 2003, at 21:27:50
In reply to Re: Klonopin withdrawal (and a reckless pdoc) » cubbybear, posted by MattD on April 29, 2003, at 15:38:56
Matt, did you come off 5 mg or .5 mg? Just curious, because 5 mg is quite a hefty dose.
Posted by MattD on April 30, 2003, at 14:51:13
In reply to Re: Klonopin withdrawal (and a reckless pdoc), posted by Guy on April 29, 2003, at 21:27:50
I came off 5mg, and I've come off high doses several times--this is why I posted regarding coming off Klonopin; I'm a veteran, :)
Matt
This is the end of the thread.
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