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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by djmmm on January 30, 2003, at 8:35:58
In reply to Re: Anyone on Nardil Side Effect Free?*correction*, posted by kara lynne on January 30, 2003, at 1:48:31
Don't psych yourself out (for lack of better words) Most likely, the only side-effects you will experience are dry mouth and some hypotension (standing up) and minor sexual problems....all of which either disappear, or greatly decrease after the first few weeks. Edema only occurs in appox 4%, and weight gain in 8%...I NEVER gained weight.
Posted by Jack Smith on January 30, 2003, at 11:53:21
In reply to Re: Anyone on Nardil Side Effect Free?*correction*, posted by djmmm on January 30, 2003, at 8:35:58
Kara Lyne,
Since you are going to be starting Nardil in a week, I think it would be really useful if you could post pretty regularly when you start out--it would be great for future users who could see how someone progresses. . . . It would be great for me too since I am about 90% sure that I will be starting nardil in about a month as well. Anyway, Good Luck and I think it will really help you out, and hopefully will help me as well. I share your worries over sexual side effects and also find it really ironic that these drugs that get you feeling better then take away the greatest pleasure in life. Oh well, such is life.
Jack
Posted by kara lynne on January 30, 2003, at 13:21:12
In reply to Nardil--Kara Lyne, posted by Jack Smith on January 30, 2003, at 11:53:21
I will be happy to post how the Nardil trial goes for me if it will benefit anyone else. I just don't want to discourage anyone because I have been so greatly discouraged in the past. I'm happy to hear that djmmm hasn't had any prohibitive side effects-- so it *can* happen! I'll let you know...
Posted by Jack Smith on January 30, 2003, at 13:38:15
In reply to Re: Nardil--Kara Lyne, posted by kara lynne on January 30, 2003, at 13:21:12
Based on what every one says, I don't think you should be discouraged. From what I here, Nardil seems to work for so many people when everything else failed. Just try to ride it out. By the way what else have you tried?
For me:
Zoloft (too many sides, not enough benefits)
Paxil (sedation)
Celexa (relief at last, then poop out big time)
Wellbutrin (added to celexa and seems OK but not good enough and constant headaches)
Xanax (always good to have around)Jack
You aren't in LA are you? I am trying to find a pdoc who will prescribe nardil if the one I have doesn't though I think I know of one who used to treat me who almost certainly would. . . .
Posted by cosis on January 30, 2003, at 14:03:23
In reply to Anyone on Nardil Side Effect Free?, posted by kara lynne on January 29, 2003, at 22:34:27
> I'm planning to start Nardil in one week and I'm beginning to obsess about the possible side effects. In particular I am hearing a lot about edema and weight gain. Is this a foregone conclusion--does everyone experience it to some degree or another, or have some of you out there escaped these tragic flaws altogether? Also, has anyone who experienced a lot of side effects with other meds (along with them being ineffective) been able to tolerate Nardil? Thanks for your input.
When I started Nardil I weighed 175 lbs. which was pretty skinny consider I am 6'2. After it kicked in I noticed a I was no longer hungry for salty foods anymore but more sweet foods. I gained about 15 lbs total. However I blame myself for not stepping on the scale during my eating binges. I would eat LOTS of sweet & sugary food, I am talking 8 waffles pounded with syrup and 8 glasses of milk :) I am sure you won't have this problem but I added exercise and weight lifting and also cut back on the sweet foods trying to eat more healthy foods. Part of the problem was I would buy to much of one thing like 20 protein chocolate bars and end up eating 10 in a row. Now I only buy 2 at a time.... I really didn't know weight gain was a side effect when I started, but I am trying to gain control of my eating...
good luck, you can always switch to Parnate if you have a problem, I heard for most people the weight comes off easily without even doing anyhing
nick
Posted by ZeeZee on January 30, 2003, at 16:24:49
In reply to Re: Nardil--Kara Lyne, posted by kara lynne on January 30, 2003, at 13:21:12
The reason for the weight gain on Nardil is it increases a craving for carb's especially sweets. So unlike other AD's that put weight on you regardless of how careful you may be with what you put in your mouth, this is the direct result of wanting to over eat. Since we are women, I'm sure you can relate to the craving for sweets during the pms phase of our cycle. This is what it feels like on the Nardil, but it doesn't stop. You may not experience this however.
In regard to the anorgasmia, I mentioned earlier that Bethanacol, which is an "anticholinergic" drug used to treat the s/e's of AD's was very effective in eliminating that problem. I was on Nardil for over 6-9 months before switching to Parnate for 4 years.
Good Luck
Posted by kara lynne on January 31, 2003, at 0:05:45
In reply to Re: Nardil--Kara Lyne, posted by Jack Smith on January 30, 2003, at 13:38:15
Meds I have tried: Paxil, Luvox, Prozac, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Celexa, Lexapro, Geodon, Seroquel, Zyprexa, Pamelor, Imiprimine, Surmontil, Amoxepin, Trazedone, Ritalin, Dexadrine, Effexor, Risperdol, Klonopin, BuSpar, Serzone, Remiron, Moclobemide, Tieneptine---I know I'm forgetting some, but I can't think of them now. (Brain damage from all the others, no doubt.) I am not in Los Angeles, but it seems like you would be able to find someone to prescribe Nardil for you. (I didn't realize this was a problem.) Keep us posted.
Posted by kara lynne on January 31, 2003, at 0:18:18
In reply to Re: Nardil--Kara Lyne » kara lynne, posted by ZeeZee on January 30, 2003, at 16:24:49
Uh oh. This sounds like something that I could definitely fall victim too. When you liken it to those PMS cravings-- those are the ones I end up indulging pretty much no matter what. I'm not sure I have so much self control that I could talk or exercise myself through them, if they are that constant. Zee, do you find the Parnate works well for you, just not as good as the Nardil? I actually tried *one* Parnate, at my doctor's urging some months ago (he was really trying to get me on MAOI'S for TRD). He wanted me to try Parnate first because there are fewer side effects. Of course I realize one pill is no trial, but it just made me feel really strange with kind of a distending feeling headache, and I was so paranoid about the diet then (not as much now) that I decided to wait and try Lexapro. Our hope was that with this new *side effect free ssri* I would finally be able to get up to a therapeutic dose. When that trial failed and I read the endorsements for Nardil on this site, I decided to give Nardil a fair trial. (I hope I can get that far). My doc also says some other new things are on the horizon-- Cymbalta for one, as possibilities in the future. At least *he* never gives up trying!
Posted by kara lynne on January 31, 2003, at 0:57:22
In reply to Re: Nardil--Kara Lyne, posted by kara lynne on January 31, 2003, at 0:05:45
...Lamictal and Neurontin.
Posted by missinglynxx on January 31, 2003, at 8:51:24
In reply to Almost forgot (Jack)...., posted by kara lynne on January 31, 2003, at 0:57:22
> ...Lamictal and Neurontin.
Kara Lynne,,, sorry to intrude. YOu having tried Serzone and Pamelor... what was the reason these mediations "bombing" out for you. Do you remember if the side effects were the reason?
Oh by the way Great luck with the Nardil, Remember Slow and low!!!!
Did you have withdrawls offa Pamelor and Serzone?I think thats most everyone heres great fear?
Its mine at least... therefore, I take Pamelor 100mgs!! yee Haw " Be well
Posted by kara lynne on January 31, 2003, at 12:11:03
In reply to Re: Almost forgot (Jack)...., posted by missinglynxx on January 31, 2003, at 8:51:24
Serzone just made me too dizzy and tired once I started getting the dosage up where it would do any good. It just never worked very well for me. I developed tachycardia on Pamelor and had to stop, although that was the only medication that I ever really started to feel any relief on (but adjusting to it was really difficult for me). I didn't have any problem tapering off Serzone; I felt some discomfort tapering off the Pamelor, but not much. I used Neurontin at first to help with some of the symptoms. Having to stop at all and face the miserable depression again was the hardest part. Are you thinking of getting off Pamelor for some reason?
Posted by cosis on January 31, 2003, at 14:23:37
In reply to Nardil/Zee Zee/cosis/carbs and chocolate..., posted by kara lynne on January 31, 2003, at 0:18:18
> Uh oh. This sounds like something that I could definitely fall victim too. When you liken it to those PMS cravings-- those are the ones I end up indulging pretty much no matter what. I'm not sure I have so much self control that I could talk or exercise myself through them, if they are that constant. Zee, do you find the Parnate works well for you, just not as good as the Nardil? I actually tried *one* Parnate, at my doctor's urging some months ago (he was really trying to get me on MAOI'S for TRD). He wanted me to try Parnate first because there are fewer side effects. Of course I realize one pill is no trial, but it just made me feel really strange with kind of a distending feeling headache, and I was so paranoid about the diet then (not as much now) that I decided to wait and try Lexapro. Our hope was that with this new *side effect free ssri* I would finally be able to get up to a therapeutic dose. When that trial failed and I read the endorsements for Nardil on this site, I decided to give Nardil a fair trial. (I hope I can get that far). My doc also says some other new things are on the horizon-- Cymbalta for one, as possibilities in the future. At least *he* never gives up trying!
Hi,
I can understand it might be hard to do, but some day's is very easy for me not to hog the carbs.. Today for example I will eat under 2000 calories.. It's just some day's I will hog down on chocolate or other sweets and I kind of blame myself for buying so much of it. If I didn't buy so much it wouldn't be on the counter staring me in the face LOL.
One thing I found that worked for me is I am a big fan of the Zone Protein Chocolate bars, mint or peanut butter flavor, so instead of putting them all in the cubbard I will freeze them, so I have to thaw them before eating, usually that gives me time to say "Nick you shouldn't hog them all down, you know better.. you will feel bad after you do." So I usually only end up eating 1-2 a day :)
Just stupid little tricks help me from overeating..
good luck
nick
Posted by ZeeZee on January 31, 2003, at 15:06:52
In reply to Nardil/Zee Zee/cosis/carbs and chocolate..., posted by kara lynne on January 31, 2003, at 0:18:18
No, I am not on Parnate now, haven't been for over 5 years. Yes the Parnate worked fabulously for me, as did the Nardil. You need to start slow and ramp up slowly. Parnate will most likely make you lose your appetite initially and then you'll settle into normal eating habits. However, I had increased energy, with a decreased need for sleep and was very physically active, kept to my exercise program very well.
I recommend you start with the Nardil and not worry about the possible s/e's now.
Good Luck
Posted by ZeeZee on January 31, 2003, at 15:57:31
In reply to Re: Nardil/Zee Zee/cosis/carbs and chocolate..., posted by cosis on January 31, 2003, at 14:23:37
Protein bars and protein enhanced shakes contain ingredients that are prohibited on the MAOI diet.
Posted by cosis on January 31, 2003, at 17:39:52
In reply to Cannot eat protein bars!, posted by ZeeZee on January 31, 2003, at 15:57:31
> Protein bars and protein enhanced shakes contain ingredients that are prohibited on the MAOI diet.
I never heard anything about not eating protein bars - I been eating them 6 months with 90mg Nardil. I drink Protein shakes also..
Posted by ZeeZee on January 31, 2003, at 20:44:09
In reply to Re: Cannot eat protein bars!, posted by cosis on January 31, 2003, at 17:39:52
From this site:
Protein extracts - three brands of meat extract contained 95, 206, and 304 mcg/gram of tyramine and therefore meat extracts should be avoided (McCabe, 1986). ***Avoid liquid and powdered protein dietary supplements*** (Anon, 1989).
Posted by cosis on January 31, 2003, at 23:28:49
In reply to Re: Cannot eat protein bars! » cosis, posted by ZeeZee on January 31, 2003, at 20:44:09
> From this site:
>
> Protein extracts - three brands of meat extract contained 95, 206, and 304 mcg/gram of tyramine and therefore meat extracts should be avoided (McCabe, 1986). ***Avoid liquid and powdered protein dietary supplements*** (Anon, 1989).To many websites say different things.. Some say you can eat pizza, some say you can't. Some say you can drink beer, some say you can't. All I know is the sheet my doctor gave me does not have this information on it so I will continue to eat my protein bars :)
Posted by sl on January 31, 2003, at 23:49:57
In reply to Re: Cannot eat protein bars! » cosis, posted by ZeeZee on January 31, 2003, at 20:44:09
> From this site:
>
> Protein extracts - three brands of meat extract contained 95, 206, and 304 mcg/gram of tyramine and therefore meat extracts should be avoided (McCabe, 1986). ***Avoid liquid and powdered protein dietary supplements*** (Anon, 1989).Eeew.
I have nothing to do with MAOIs, but I'd like to inform you that there are MANY protein products that don't contain "meat extracts".
That sounds disgusting...most of the ones I've taken have been based on milk solids and/or soy products ..."isolates" whatever that is.
And that'd actually explain why the conflict....cuz some kinds are or were probably bad, while some are fine. (Honestly, if you're on a MAOI diet and haven't learned to read labels, you're already in trouble!)I just wanted to clarify that. I'd never buy a nutrition bar of any kind that contained meat products. Eeew. Gross. ("Snickers, a layer of caramel and chewy nougat over a stick of pure beef extract! Mmmm!")
sl
Posted by cosis on February 1, 2003, at 0:18:41
In reply to Re: Cannot eat protein bars!, posted by sl on January 31, 2003, at 23:49:57
> > From this site:
> >
> > Protein extracts - three brands of meat extract contained 95, 206, and 304 mcg/gram of tyramine and therefore meat extracts should be avoided (McCabe, 1986). ***Avoid liquid and powdered protein dietary supplements*** (Anon, 1989).
>
> Eeew.
> I have nothing to do with MAOIs, but I'd like to inform you that there are MANY protein products that don't contain "meat extracts".
> That sounds disgusting...most of the ones I've taken have been based on milk solids and/or soy products ..."isolates" whatever that is.
> And that'd actually explain why the conflict....cuz some kinds are or were probably bad, while some are fine. (Honestly, if you're on a MAOI diet and haven't learned to read labels, you're already in trouble!)
>
> I just wanted to clarify that. I'd never buy a nutrition bar of any kind that contained meat products. Eeew. Gross. ("Snickers, a layer of caramel and chewy nougat over a stick of pure beef extract! Mmmm!")
>
> sl
My protein bars are soy :)
Posted by ZeeZee on February 1, 2003, at 9:58:06
In reply to Re: Cannot eat protein bars!, posted by cosis on February 1, 2003, at 0:18:41
I'm well aware of the fact that there are many lists out there that are contradictory. This is why Dr. Bob has gathered the information from the most up to date information due to the help from posters who have used or are using MAOI's. This is also why I did extensive research before I returned to a second trial of Parnate this past summer. I was the one who posted this link that has been quoted and referred to on numerous occassions by posters on MAOI's: http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/19.html. This information is in fact THE most up to date.
Any protein containing food that has undergone degradation or fermention poses the highest risk for increasing tyramine. So if you feel sure that your protein extracts or soy protein products are from "unfermented" soy bean curd then enjoy!
You are free to experiment as you'd like, however as someone who experienced 2 hypertensive crises with one trip to the ER via ambulance, I would advise against this.
Posted by cosis on February 1, 2003, at 11:45:27
In reply to Re: Cannot eat protein bars! » cosis, posted by ZeeZee on February 1, 2003, at 9:58:06
> I'm well aware of the fact that there are many lists out there that are contradictory. This is why Dr. Bob has gathered the information from the most up to date information due to the help from posters who have used or are using MAOI's. This is also why I did extensive research before I returned to a second trial of Parnate this past summer. I was the one who posted this link that has been quoted and referred to on numerous occassions by posters on MAOI's: http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/19.html. This information is in fact THE most up to date.
> Any protein containing food that has undergone degradation or fermention poses the highest risk for increasing tyramine. So if you feel sure that your protein extracts or soy protein products are from "unfermented" soy bean curd then enjoy!
> You are free to experiment as you'd like, however as someone who experienced 2 hypertensive crises with one trip to the ER via ambulance, I would advise against this.Yes I believe they are safe.. I understand how cautious you would be having 2 crises. I once pigged out on a large pepperoni pizza and a lot of Cokie which probably wasn't to bright. I didn't feel any changes but I still haven't ate another pizza in 6 months.
Nick
Posted by djmmm on February 1, 2003, at 11:51:43
In reply to Cannot eat protein bars!, posted by ZeeZee on January 31, 2003, at 15:57:31
Yes you can.
I even drink a protein shake that contains l-tryptophan...
Posted by ZeeZee on February 1, 2003, at 12:00:10
In reply to Re: Cannot eat protein bars!, posted by cosis on February 1, 2003, at 11:45:27
Posted by ZeeZee on February 1, 2003, at 12:07:42
In reply to Re: Cannot eat protein bars!, posted by djmmm on February 1, 2003, at 11:51:43
Individual responses to different foods vary. Some people are fast metabolizers of tyramine. However the link I posted is comprised of "liberal" not conservative recommendations. I personally would not make suggestions to others based on my individual response to a food.
As stated earlier, feel free to eat whatever you wish!
Posted by missinglynxx on February 2, 2003, at 6:14:31
In reply to Welcome Your Intrusion, Ms.Lynx...., posted by kara lynne on January 31, 2003, at 12:11:03
> Serzone just made me too dizzy and tired once I started getting the dosage up where it would do any good. It just never worked very well for me. I developed tachycardia on Pamelor and had to stop, although that was the only medication that I ever really started to feel any relief on (but adjusting to it was really difficult for me). I didn't have any problem tapering off Serzone; I felt some discomfort tapering off the Pamelor, but not much. I used Neurontin at first to help with some of the symptoms. Having to stop at all and face the miserable depression again was the hardest part. Are you thinking of getting off Pamelor for some reason?
Hi there Kara Lynne (sounds Texan to me). WELL, Im in this mode where I refuse to take an SSRI again. They make me violently sick from the outset, sorta like being in the ring with Evander Holyfield.
So I asked for Nortriptyline from the Psychiatrist. He put me on this before, and Idiotic me quit it (I cant recall why)...I did read the Tricyclics are excellent for heavy duty depression, DID you read that also?
sorry about the Tachycardia..you deserve to get this solved.
Im not feeling like MR. Motivation on this Nortriptyline?I have no idea how Im feeling haha.ONE thing I do know is the Abilify (which is my original drug)put me in the best mood IVe been in,,, for a few days,,,in a year. Its definately easy TO like. GOOD luck in the future.
Missinglynx
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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