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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by pork chop on December 3, 2002, at 16:58:48
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Peter S. on December 3, 2002, at 16:29:01
I'm so glad someone else has experienced the jolts! They were the wierdest thing!
That stinks that the Lamictal effects are fading. How long have you been taking that? Did you ever have problems with skin rash?
I'm reading the July issue of the Psychopharmacology Update from Brown University about BP. It's pretty interesting.
Hope you feel better too
Posted by Peter S. on December 3, 2002, at 20:50:54
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy » Peter S., posted by pork chop on December 3, 2002, at 16:58:48
Hey PC,
I've been on Lam for a couple of months-never any problem with skin rash but I titrated up. Just took my first dose of Trileptal but I'm feeling pessamistic- going through a dark time.
What's the upshot of the article?Best,
Peter
> I'm so glad someone else has experienced the jolts! They were the wierdest thing!
>
> That stinks that the Lamictal effects are fading. How long have you been taking that? Did you ever have problems with skin rash?
>
> I'm reading the July issue of the Psychopharmacology Update from Brown University about BP. It's pretty interesting.
>
> Hope you feel better too
Posted by pork chop on December 3, 2002, at 22:01:26
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Peter S. on December 3, 2002, at 20:50:54
Hello,
The articles are about the advancement of BP treatment options and summerize several recent studies. The story I found most interesting was entitled *Bipolar depression and rapid cycling: The latest pharmacologic strategies* It weighs benefits of Lithium vs. Lamictal and found that Lamictal has more AD benefits while Lithium is better for those with manic tendencies.
One of the stories has a chart about different schema for treatment of rapid cyclers, and this may be old news to some, but I didn't realize that Topamax has weight loss benefits! Mr Cushing, did you know that? I'm feeling okay right now, so I've no desire to add anything, but it's nice to know.
I hope the Trileptal works for you Peter!
Posted by Mr Cushing on December 3, 2002, at 23:00:47
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by pork chop on December 3, 2002, at 22:01:26
Yeah, I know that, but on top of the weight gain, my mind is about the most precious part of me. I'd go completely crazy if I couldn't use it. And Topomax has some really bad cognitive side effects, which is why my Doctor already ruled that out.I need a really strong AD, something not SSRI related, and I need it really fast. My depression was kicked into high gear today from some bad news that I've received, if you look at the last post on this page. I can't be hospitalized at the moment. I need to be an out-patient, but I need something successful. Just for a short period.
Posted by fluffy on December 4, 2002, at 14:03:56
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Mr Cushing on December 3, 2002, at 23:00:47
Hi Mr. Cushing, Krysti, Pork chop, and others...
Man--
I come into work today, and see that this thread has exploded!! It's good!!So I saw my pdoc on monday. I really, really don't like him...but he's all I got right now. He doesn't want to explain ANYTHING!! He doesn't tell me about side effects. He says about 20 total words when I visit him....It's like---"appetite?----sleeping?----Hmmmm---feeling suicidal?----" and then some bullshit "light " topic follows. I have to force him to talk to me about what is actually going on--like the cycling and the anxiety from the SSRI's....BLEH.
But he put me on Tegretol, which I think is a pretty good choice from what research I've done. So far, so good. It's been 2 days...no weird side effects or space-cadet feelings.
To pork chop--
I also thought that what I was going through was "just" depression....like unipolar depressions. It wasn't until I had a horrible experience with Lexapro that I realized that something was rotten in Denmark...
It put me into a mixed state. Then I tried zoloft and neurontin. I was cycling rapidly, and the neurontin didn't seem to keep it from happening. If you have time, you can read some of my earlier posts. I was totally in denial about being BPII. Now I'm just glad I know so that I can get the proper drugs to prevent/ lessen a future episode.Mr. Cushing--
Did you ever figure out what the chills were about? I hope the SSRI helps. What about Wellbutrin? I've heard good things about it from other BP kids.Take care everyone!
Fluffy
Posted by Mr Cushing on December 4, 2002, at 15:39:27
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by fluffy on December 4, 2002, at 14:03:56
Hi, yeah, I got placed back on Celexa yesterday. My PDoc and my MD want me to continue on Depakote at a low dose, but my MD says that I should come in and see him once a week for a little bit just to make sure that my body is adjusting to the Depakote normally. He said that with the amount I'm taking, 375mg per day, that I should not have put on a ton of weight. He said that if I continue to go up, then he'll send me to a BP specialist to see what else we can do.God... I still feel like I'm living in a nightmare though. I'm just constantly praying to my Mom that Eva's boat comes in alright. It's been 8 days now and no word... I really don't think I'm up for another funeral again, especially hers... Both my MD and my PDoc suggested that I take a very large dose of Klonopin for the next few weeks if I don't feel like I'm holding myself together too well. That will give Celexa enough time to kick in and then I can reduce my Klonopin dose.
So there... 2 Doctors have told me now that taking Klonopin, a Benzo, is actually not that bad for you. That I should take as much of it as I feel I need in order to hold myself together untill the AD comes into play.
Anyways, keep praying for my friend Eva. I wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't for her, and I don't know how I'm going to cope with things if she's dead. I know that's a worst case scenario, but right now everything is up in the air and I guess I've got to try and prepare for the worst. At the worst, after the wake/funeral, I think I'm going to need to be hospitalized for a bit.
Posted by pork chop on December 5, 2002, at 10:36:57
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Mr Cushing on December 4, 2002, at 15:39:27
Cushing, You and Eva are in my prayers. That really sucks not knowing. I can't imagine what you're going through. Hang in there.
I overdid it at the work christmas party last night, as usual. Today I feel like total shit. I somehow manage to overdo everything in my life.
I don't know if this will help, but whenever I'm really overloaded, I just think about the process: Walk up the stairs, open the door, sit on the chair... The real simple stuff keeps me sane. Anyway, I hope you're okay Cushing, and email me if you feel like it, [email protected]
Posted by Mr Cushing on December 5, 2002, at 11:53:36
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by pork chop on December 5, 2002, at 10:36:57
Actually, I got some really good news last night. After panicking for like 2 days, I looked at the article that a friend of mine sent me from the "Vancouver Sun" and found out who the main editor was for that column. I then explained to him my situation, that I don't have any local news coverage of what's going on in Vancouver, and that the article had me scared to death.So he emailed me back and said that there was a lot of hoopla in that article because once you pen it, there's people at the paper that like to change things around somewhat. He said that he knew the Captain personally and that this guy had spent about 30 years on the water. That if anybody was able to captain a boat of novices to Costa Rica from BC, that he was the guy to do it. That he saw the boat, had inspected the boat, and it was terrific. It was in 100% shape and the only thing that was missing was the telecommunications equipment. He said that the captain had wanted it this way because he wanted the novices to know what it feels like being out at sea by yourself. He requested that no "couples" be together on the boat because he wanted it to be a team-building strategy and that he was mainly looking for a group of total strangers for a learning experience. He said that the Captain had actually sailed that boat over from Africa, where he built it himself, to BC in order to conduct this voyage. So basically, the captain was able to sail the boat around the world by himself, with no crew, so he shouldn't have had a problem even if the crew consisted of people that knew next to nothing. He also said that the Captain almost never went by the schedule. That was his experience with him. He'll set up a schedule so that people wouldn't worry before the trip started, but that he was very educated on the waters and if he saw trouble somewhere ahead, he knew a billion shortcuts to get around it. If it was really nice out, he also had a habit of taking the crew for a nice sightseeing tour. It just depended what the waters were like at that particular time. For the waters and the weather, it's been nearly perfect sailing conditions the entire time since the trip started. He said that he also notified the Coast Guards about this boat and just to let them know if they saw it. Whenever something does come up about the boats whereabouts, or if a rescue mission has to be set up, then he would email me and let me know. He said that basically the ship's final destination was Costa Rica, and that the Captain usually changes the course of getting there just about every time.
So that made me feel better for the time being anyways...
Since I started on mood stabilizers, I've quit out drinking completely. I'm the type of guy that nobody questions when I want to do something. For example, if I'm out with a group of friends and they're all drinking, I'll say that I want water. Nobody would say, "Why don't you have a beer like us?" because they know I don't go for stuff like that. Also, after like the first month without taking a sip of alcohol, I really don't miss it that much. And I was drinking before up to 4 times a week, and getting hammered each time. I still smoke weed though, just very small amounts of it. Like "maybe" I'll smoke 2 grams a week, but that's like the most I'll do and I've rarely got there since I started the medication. It's all about willpower, you just have to watch yourself and have confidence in yourself and after that, it's not that bad.
Posted by fluffy on December 5, 2002, at 13:46:52
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Mr Cushing on December 5, 2002, at 11:53:36
Mr. Cushing--
You're right about quitting drinking. It's not that bad. When I think about how hammered I used to get (also, like 4 times a week) and how crap-tastic I would feel the next day...and totally moody and irritable. Sometimes I would leave work because I was so hungover that I couldn't see straight. I don't really miss it at all. The most I've had to drink since this episode started was maybe one beer. And I wonder why I needed to drink so damn much all of the time. I haven't dipped into the Mary Jane, though since then. Sometimes I feel like I need it to work in my studio and get the juices going. Do you find that it destabilizes you?
Bobby Brown was interviewed by Diane Sawyer last night. She asked why he smokes dope...and he said "I'm bipolar...and it levels me out." She said, "Hey--What about Lithium?" And he was like..."Oh that makes me catatonic." I thought it was a rather funny exchange for primetime television.
Anyways--
Good to hear that there is some hope for your friend. Let us know what happens.
lovins,
fluffy
Posted by Mr Cushing on December 5, 2002, at 16:22:48
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by fluffy on December 5, 2002, at 13:46:52
Hey Katy, I only smoke a little bit now though. Like I know how "not" to overdo it. God, I've been smoking though for damn near 3/4's of my life. I love the smell of it, I love the taste of it, and nothing relaxes me more than smoking a little spliff of some really good hydro or outdoor. You'd be surprised at some of the outdoor us Canadians have been able to come out with this year lol... I don't find that it does really anything to me except maybe mellow me out. Never made me really giddy. Doesn't give me panic attacks. Doesn't make me depressed. I guess, in a sense, it helps to balance me out.I see you keep mentioning about working in a studio, what exactly do you do?
Posted by Mr Cushing on December 5, 2002, at 16:23:41
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by fluffy on December 5, 2002, at 13:46:52
Posted by Mr Cushing on December 5, 2002, at 19:33:17
In reply to Where is Krysti??? (nm), posted by Mr Cushing on December 5, 2002, at 16:23:41
Alright, I had already stated here that Depakote wound up making me gain 10lbs during the first 5 weeks. Well, for some "strange" reason, I've lost 5 within the past 3 days. I didn't do anything different. Actually, about the only thing that I can think of that I actually did do differently was that I was too bummed out to work out. So basically, I stopped something that should have been making me lose weight. My Doctor today even said that I really looked last bloated since the last time I saw her, which was only 3 days ago.Funny stuff, huh?
Posted by Krysti on December 6, 2002, at 7:58:13
In reply to Where is Krysti??? (nm), posted by Mr Cushing on December 5, 2002, at 16:23:41
Hi guys : )
Sorry I disappeared - I have been absolutely swamped. 3 weeks on the Trileptal and still doing good : )
Cush - I hope everything is okay with your friend. From your last message about it, sounds like they are probably just taking their time. I'm sure you're still worried though. I will keep her in my thoughts/prayers.
I have to go for now, but promise to return when I can get some time!!!
Krysti
Posted by fluffy on December 6, 2002, at 10:29:59
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy » fluffy, posted by Mr Cushing on December 5, 2002, at 16:22:48
>
> Hey Katy, I only smoke a little bit now though. Like I know how "not" to overdo it. God, I've been smoking though for damn near 3/4's of my life. I love the smell of it, I love the taste of it, and nothing relaxes me more than smoking a little spliff of some really good hydro or outdoor. You'd be surprised at some of the outdoor us Canadians have been able to come out with this year lol... I don't find that it does really anything to me except maybe mellow me out. Never made me really giddy. Doesn't give me panic attacks. Doesn't make me depressed. I guess, in a sense, it helps to balance me out.
>Dude--
Don't be bragging about the awesome MJ you guys get up north. We southerners have to deal with consuming the not-so-piquant brick-weed from Mexico...
But I've tried the Canadian variety, and it's....WOW. A trifle expensive for this gal, though.> I see you keep mentioning about working in a studio, what exactly do you do?
I'm a visual artist. I make sculpture...loosely. I'm kind-of a hybrid between a performance artist/ gymnast/ sculptor. My work has to do with overcoming objects larger than oneself (like Sisyphus) and/or performing feats. Lately my own mental sh!t has been enough of a feat, though. But it's getting better. Maybe I'll e-mail you a link to some images if you're interested.
fluffy
Posted by Mr Cushing on December 6, 2002, at 11:29:36
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by fluffy on December 6, 2002, at 10:29:59
Yeah, I know what Houston buds are like... that's why I was teasing you :-)When I sent my friend a "tiny" bud through the mail when we had some of our best of the year out, it basically crippled her and like 2 of her friends. I mean, this was like a .3 or something... So that's why quitting drinking was so easily... Drink on Depakote, put on weight and feel like absolute garbage in the morning... Smoke some good buds every once in a while, no hangover, doesn't throw you off balance, doesn't really affect your mood (except makes me happier?)... just probably shouldn't be used in excess.
I would love you to send me those links since I have like no idea what you were talking about.
"I'm kind-of a hybrid between a performance artist/ gymnast/ sculptor. My work has to do with overcoming objects larger than oneself (like Sisyphus) and/or performing feats. Lately my own mental sh!t has been enough of a feat, though. But it's getting better."
I'm usually a pretty bright guy, but that had me like "Huh???"..... lol
Posted by Sebastian on December 6, 2002, at 20:23:03
In reply to Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by fluffy on November 10, 2002, at 11:47:23
I belive it must be part of it. I contantly worry feeling that it's my fault that I don't feel normal, wondering if I act normal, feel guilty that I worry all the time asking stupid qestions, mainly not being the way I was befor all this. Now I haven't been diagnosed as bi-polar, was in a sicosis for a long time (many years) but now the diagnosis as far as determined seems to be just a lot of anxiety and depression since I take a AD now. Sometimes I feel normal but other I feel bad, keep wondering if it will ever be the same I was 7 years ago. At least things seem to be inproving as time goes on.
Sebastian
Posted by Krysti on December 6, 2002, at 21:04:06
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by Sebastian on December 6, 2002, at 20:23:03
Hi Sebastian,
I know exactly how you feel. You sound like how I was for the last 6 years. I thought if I just did this, if I just did that, I could make the anxiety go away. I was super hyper-aware of myself. It actually helped me in a lot of ways though to become a better person. I developed a big complex - anything I did or said that I felt wasn't the right thing would bring on the anxiety. It made me strive more to be the person that I want to be, so it hasn't been all bad. This may sound corny, but sometimes, I even wonder if this has all happened for that purpose. It's definitely been a hard road, but I guess it's the hard stuff we go through in life that are the learning experiences and make us better people.
How are the AD's doing for your anxiety? I'm not sure which is worse, anxiety or depression, but I wouldn't settle for either. Since I've gone on Trileptal (which is the 3rd mood stabilizer I've been on), I have been feeling so much more stable. It's only been 3 weeks so far, but if it doesn't last, I will be trying something else. My goal now is to remain stable and from all that I've read, it is attainable. I won't give up and I hope you don't either : )
Krysti
Posted by Peter S. on December 7, 2002, at 0:06:57
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis? » Sebastian, posted by Krysti on December 6, 2002, at 21:04:06
Hi Krysti,
I just started Trileptal myself. Took 300mg one day and it totally knocked me out, so I'm starting with 150mg. I'm glad to hear that it's really helped you. I'm just hoping that it will ease the extreme mood crashing that I go through. I'm starting to take Prozac along with it because PZ has really helped in the past till it pooped out. Can you tell me how much you are taking? How long did it take before you notice effects?
I really wish you all the best with it!
Peter
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> I know exactly how you feel. You sound like how I was for the last 6 years. I thought if I just did this, if I just did that, I could make the anxiety go away. I was super hyper-aware of myself. It actually helped me in a lot of ways though to become a better person. I developed a big complex - anything I did or said that I felt wasn't the right thing would bring on the anxiety. It made me strive more to be the person that I want to be, so it hasn't been all bad. This may sound corny, but sometimes, I even wonder if this has all happened for that purpose. It's definitely been a hard road, but I guess it's the hard stuff we go through in life that are the learning experiences and make us better people.
>
> How are the AD's doing for your anxiety? I'm not sure which is worse, anxiety or depression, but I wouldn't settle for either. Since I've gone on Trileptal (which is the 3rd mood stabilizer I've been on), I have been feeling so much more stable. It's only been 3 weeks so far, but if it doesn't last, I will be trying something else. My goal now is to remain stable and from all that I've read, it is attainable. I won't give up and I hope you don't either : )
>
> Krysti
Posted by Krysti on December 7, 2002, at 9:27:31
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by Peter S. on December 7, 2002, at 0:06:57
Hi Peter,
I started out taking 300mg in the morning and at night. Then I went up to 600mg at night which would knock me out within an hour. My pdoc had originally wanted me to go up to 600mg in the morning also, but I haven't because I figured it would put me to sleep. So I'm taking 300mg in the morning and 600mg at night. I read a post previously about the sleepiness wearing off (which I hope it doesn't because I like that fact that the 600mg makes me fall asleep).
With every mood stabilizer I've been on, I've noticed the effects right away. Makes me kind of wonder if it's not just the positive side to me making me feel better because I'm trying something new and I think - this will be the one. But, the Trileptal has been the best one so far. Everyone else has noticed the difference in me also.
The true test though will be after a couple of months - that's when I usually start going downhill and have crying spells. I really really really hope that does not happen this time. Wouldn't it be so nice to just remain level???
Your previous post said you're trying Trileptal as a last resort. Don't give up. If it doesn't work for you, there are a lot more out there and a lot of combos you can try. It may be frustrating, but as long as you continue to be proactive in fighting it, you will find something that works eventually and it will have been worth it : )
Keep in touch and let me know how the Trileptal is going for you and I will do the same.
Krysti
Posted by pork chop on December 7, 2002, at 9:51:54
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by Krysti on December 7, 2002, at 9:27:31
Hello,
Just thought I'd give an update on the Lamictal. I haven't noticed much change, but I'm only up to 50 mg. I keep thinking that every itch is going to turn into some horrific rash, but that hasn't happened either. Tapered off the Lexapro and all discontinuation symptoms subsided.
One thing that I think is just the effect of changing medications is my irritability. I think it may be at an all time high. Hope this goes away soon or I'm gonna get fired! I can't be nice to my boss to save my life, but I think that started way before any of this...
Hope everyone is doing well
Posted by Mr Cushing on December 7, 2002, at 12:08:42
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by pork chop on December 7, 2002, at 9:51:54
Hey, PC, thought this might interest you. When I went off of my AD (Effexor) after trying to get stabilized on my MS (Depakote), my depression came back hard almost immediately. When I brought this up with my PDoc and my MD, my MD said that I should have never quit taking the AD in the first place and that, with my condition, I should probably try to find the right AD that I can take long term. My PDoc simply told me that she knew that if she had told me to do something, for example, "Not to quit Effexor" after I had already decided I was going to, it wouldn't have made a difference. So now I'm on a very low dose of Celexa (20mg) which they think should be able to hold me long term. Both Docs think that the only increase in my AD that I might have to make over the long term is to increase it to 30mg per day. The other changes should be to increase my MS.When my AD was taken out, jeez, I was going between either being sad to just being PO'd to being sad to being PO'd back to being sad, etc. Just kept going like that. I lost almost all motivation and to even get up and get dressed was getting harder to do (still is actually but it's only been 5 days). Then once the suicidal thoughts hit (Death could be so much better than what I was currently going through) I decided that I needed to book an immediate app't with my PDoc and got put back on an AD.
So, just watch it... if you notice your mood dropping too low, bring it up with your Doc.
Posted by pork chop on December 7, 2002, at 12:20:59
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by Mr Cushing on December 7, 2002, at 12:08:42
Okay, I know I just posted a few hours ago, but since then I've developed a smooth, itchy, slightly larger than quarter sized red patch on my throat. I threw some hydrocortisone on there, but the itch is really annoying. Is this "the rash"? I think I'm going to call the Pdoc.
I just increased dosage from 25 mg to 50 mg on Friday.
Posted by Krysti on December 7, 2002, at 15:12:21
In reply to lam rash in it's first stages?, posted by pork chop on December 7, 2002, at 12:20:59
Hi Pork Chop,
I'm not sure, I've never taken Lamictal. Maybe you should post a new thread asking others who've taken it.
I'd have a hard time with Lamicatal. I'm itchy half the time anyway so I'd be freaked out. For some reason, after I get out of the shower I get red blotches and they really itch. It doesn't matter what kind of soap or shampoo I use either or where I shower at. I think I'm allergic to water, yikes!! : )
Krysti
Posted by Peter S. on December 7, 2002, at 19:37:16
In reply to lam rash in it's first stages?, posted by pork chop on December 7, 2002, at 12:20:59
Pork Chop,
You may want to go much slower. I've been up to 600mg Lamictal and no sign of rash. The way I did it was to increase incrementally by the week. At first only by 12.5 per week. If you have any problems, I would immediately go down to your previous dose and try to work up more slowly.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Peter
> Okay, I know I just posted a few hours ago, but since then I've developed a smooth, itchy, slightly larger than quarter sized red patch on my throat. I threw some hydrocortisone on there, but the itch is really annoying. Is this "the rash"? I think I'm going to call the Pdoc.
>
> I just increased dosage from 25 mg to 50 mg on Friday.
Posted by Sebastian on December 7, 2002, at 22:21:18
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis? » Sebastian, posted by Krysti on December 6, 2002, at 21:04:06
I wish the AD(Celexa) worked for my anxiety, all it does realy to make me feel beter. The Zyprexa is the one. I should have mentioned it earlier. Thanks for giving hope.! I do belive it happens for a good reason, befor all this I realy had no clue, now I try to do beter even if it does not feel normal. Hope we all get better.
Sebastian
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> I know exactly how you feel. You sound like how I was for the last 6 years. I thought if I just did this, if I just did that, I could make the anxiety go away. I was super hyper-aware of myself. It actually helped me in a lot of ways though to become a better person. I developed a big complex - anything I did or said that I felt wasn't the right thing would bring on the anxiety. It made me strive more to be the person that I want to be, so it hasn't been all bad. This may sound corny, but sometimes, I even wonder if this has all happened for that purpose. It's definitely been a hard road, but I guess it's the hard stuff we go through in life that are the learning experiences and make us better people.
>
> How are the AD's doing for your anxiety? I'm not sure which is worse, anxiety or depression, but I wouldn't settle for either. Since I've gone on Trileptal (which is the 3rd mood stabilizer I've been on), I have been feeling so much more stable. It's only been 3 weeks so far, but if it doesn't last, I will be trying something else. My goal now is to remain stable and from all that I've read, it is attainable. I won't give up and I hope you don't either : )
>
> Krysti
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