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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on December 1, 2002, at 10:39:46
I've read in a few places that Ginkgo
can help some of the sexual side effects
of SSRI's. Can anybody speculate if this
is a direct or indirect effect.Ie. is it just because of enhanced blood
flow, or does ginkgo do something in the
brain as well.I personally found it helped, but it seemed
to reduce the effectiveness of celexa.
Does anybody else have experience with the
herb?thnx
Linkadge
Posted by bluedog on December 1, 2002, at 12:02:57
In reply to Ginkgo and SSRI sexual effects, posted by linkadge on December 1, 2002, at 10:39:46
I faithfully took Ginkgo Biloba for over 3 months. I ran out of the supplements last week and am undecided as to whether to get anymore because I did not notice any specific benefits from the herb. This was despite the fact that I was taking the therapeutic dose of 120mg of standardised ginkgo biloba extract (corresponds to approx 30mg of ginkgo flavonglycosides).
I did not notice any improvement in the sexual side effects caused by my ssri's (originally effexor and now prozac). The only time I ever noticed an improvement in the sexual side effects was when I reduced my dose of the ssri's.
However, just because I did not NOTICE any benefits specifically from ginkgo, that is not to say that I didn't RECEIVE any benefits because ginkgo as you probably know is a pretty potent antioxidant and can work synergistically with other antioxidants such as Lipoic Acid and Vitamin E to increase there effectiveness. I have linked to a very interesting article reporting on an interview with Dr Martin Pall who is a leading researcher on chronic fatigue syndrome. He stated that in treating his own chronic fatigue that he noticed the biggest improvement in his condition after taking ginkgo extract for 2-3 months. see http://www.imunologie.cz/kveten01_6.htm
The trouble I personally have is that I take a rather extensive supplement regime and it would be exceedingly difficult for me to isolate any one supplement as improving my overall health (and I can definitely state that my overall health has improved since commencing my supplement regime but I just can't say which of the supplements is specifically responsible for my improvement. If you want to see what my supplement regime is read the following thread - see http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20021127/msgs/129993.html.) The other problem I have is that all my supplements are costing me lots of money and when and I need to make hard choices in rationalising my regime to save money, I personally think that Ginkgo is not as important as other supplements like Lipoic Acid or Vitamin E and therefore would prefer to drop this from my overall regime than the others.
That said, because I have only just dropped it from my regime, if I notice any decline in my overall mood and health in the next couple of weeks I would be inclined to conclude that it has resulted from dropping this supplement and I will hastily start taking it again..
I'll keep you posted if this happens
bluedog
Posted by linkadge on December 1, 2002, at 12:08:30
In reply to Re: Ginkgo and SSRI sexual effects » linkadge, posted by bluedog on December 1, 2002, at 12:02:57
With your supplements I would be
surprised if there is a single
oxidizing molecule left in your
body. :)Good day
linkadge
Posted by bluedog on December 1, 2002, at 12:34:38
In reply to You're going to live forever, posted by linkadge on December 1, 2002, at 12:08:30
NO - I'll only live as long as my finances hold out :). It's going to send me broke before too long!!!
In the last 3 months I have bombarded my body with supplements and it's helped me, but now I have the difficult task of stripping my regime down to the bare bones necessary to maintain the overall health gains I've made.
Unfortunately I can't decide which supplements to keep taking and which ones to drop. Any bright ideas? :)
bluedog
Posted by comftnumb on December 1, 2002, at 12:55:16
In reply to Re: You're going to live forever » linkadge, posted by bluedog on December 1, 2002, at 12:34:38
Be a scientist. Stop all your supplements then take one at a time, without changing anything else. You are controlling confounding variables. Then if the supplement helps somehow, you know it's the supplement, so it's worth it. Discontinue supplement until you have repeated with all other supplements and you'll no which work and which don't.
Ben "comftnumb"
Posted by linkadge on December 1, 2002, at 13:44:28
In reply to Re: You're going to live forever, posted by comftnumb on December 1, 2002, at 12:55:16
I've taken both routes with that.
If you try one supplement at a time,
yes you can be a little bit more
sure of it's effect, but it may take
longer to find something that helps.If you take a whole load, and
find it helps, you can subtract
and see if you still have the
same benefits.I currently take,
Vitamin E 400IU 2X morn-night
Folic Acid - 2X morn night + b12 250 mcg
Fish oil 6g morn noon night,
coenzyme q10 - 30 mg noon
curcumin at various times,The one nutrient I've found
most beneficial is the folic
acid.
Linkadge
Good luck
Posted by bluedog on December 1, 2002, at 22:49:42
In reply to Re: You're going to live forever, posted by comftnumb on December 1, 2002, at 12:55:16
> Be a scientist. Stop all your supplements then take one at a time, without changing anything else. You are controlling confounding variables. Then if the supplement helps somehow, you know it's the supplement, so it's worth it. Discontinue supplement until you have repeated with all other supplements and you'll no which work and which don't.
>
> Ben "comftnumb"
I was going to ask whether I could perform this experiment the other way round. In other words stop taking one supplement at a time and see if my mood and health remains stable... but then Linkadge posted and suggested this approach.What would be the best way of approaching the subtraction experiment? In other words should I consistently keep subtracting supplements or should I subtract one supplement for a while to see if the benefits hold, then start taking the supplement again and then repeat the process with the next supplement? If after this entire process I find that my mood has remained stable with each supplement subtraction, where would I go from there? Would this mean I could cease taking all supplements? Are there any supplements that I should not consider stopping - PERIOD?
I suppose the problem remains that some supplements may only be working because I am taking them in a particular combination. With my supplement plan there are so many permutations of different combinations that it looks pretty daunting. I have a legal rather than a scientific background so experiment design is not my strongest point.
Would the addition experiment proposed by comftnumb be the better approach?
My only fear is that is that my psychiatrist has proposed a return to work date of exactly 2 weeks from today and I can't afford to have a mood crash at the moment or I'll be at very real risk of losing my job.
I would really appreciate some tips.
thanks
bluedog
Posted by linkadge on December 2, 2002, at 8:58:53
In reply to Re. live forever? linkadge, larry hoover, anyone, » comftnumb, posted by bluedog on December 1, 2002, at 22:49:42
I would subtract in groups, then
wait about a week to see what happens.Start with large groups and then narrow
it down to smaller groups.Ie you could take half your supps for a
week, and see what happens, then the other
half.It is difficult to say because some of the combinations may be working together.
I wouldn't get too tweezed about it,
you can drive yourself nuts with which supps
you should take. You see something there on the shelf and you're like - oh my god I should be taking that!Good luck
Linkadge
Posted by Bill L on December 2, 2002, at 9:03:20
In reply to Ginkgo and SSRI sexual effects, posted by linkadge on December 1, 2002, at 10:39:46
I used to take Ginkgo for Celexa sexual side effects. I did have some improvement. I now take Lexapro and use yohimbine for sexual side effects. Yohimbine works very well for me. I take it about an hour before sex. The disadvantage is that it can raise blood pressure.
Posted by IsoM on December 2, 2002, at 10:53:23
In reply to Re. live forever? linkadge, larry hoover, anyone, » comftnumb, posted by bluedog on December 1, 2002, at 22:49:42
The amounts of supplements that you take seem a bit much to me but while maybe not all are needed, do any harm you? I doubt it. You're better off than those with crappy diets & no supplements.
The idea of adding or subtracting supplements to see which ones work is NOT a scientific approach. It may seem so but it ignores how our bodies work & how complex they are. We have so many fail-safes that missing a absolutely needed nutrient wouldn't necessarily show for quite a while - sometimes even years.
Think of smoking - does anyone show signs of harm after they've been smoking for a few months? How about a couple of years? But it is, without a doubt, very harmful. The same goes for what's good for us. It far too complex to do such a simple experiment.
If you can afford the cost of the supplements & you don't mind taking them, why not continue. Perhaps cut down on the amount of some. Larry's comment on not blocking all your COX-2 with too much tumeric is sound.
Posted by IsoM on December 2, 2002, at 10:55:17
In reply to Re. live forever? linkadge, larry hoover, anyone, » comftnumb, posted by bluedog on December 1, 2002, at 22:49:42
Email me at isomorphix at hotmail if you want any specifics or have any particular concern.
Posted by bluedog on December 2, 2002, at 11:52:59
In reply to Re: a bit more... » bluedog, posted by IsoM on December 2, 2002, at 10:55:17
> Email me at isomorphix at hotmail if you want any specifics or have any particular concern.
Thanks Iso. I will take you up on this offer. I just need to set up an email account (would you recommend a Hotmail account?) I will follow this up tomorrow. I'm going to bed now because it's WAY past midnight and I have heaps of questions to ask and I'm not thinking straight any more today :). I'm going to have to change my night owl habits before I go back to work in 2 weeks time :).
regards
bluedog
Posted by MarathonMom on December 2, 2002, at 19:31:07
In reply to Re: You're going to live forever, posted by comftnumb on December 1, 2002, at 12:55:16
I am on 40 mg of Celexa, and at the recommendation of my shrink I started taking Ginkgo Biloba about 3 weeks ago to counter the sexual side effects. I take 120 mg of Ginkgo in the am and another 120 mg at night. I swear I've had amazing results and started orgasming again last week. WOO HOO!!!! The ginkgo seems to take away that "numb" feeling during sex and restores all those old sensations again. It still takes me 30-40 minutes to get there, but hey, I can totally live with that.
I am quite pleased with the results (obviously) and it is a natural way to treat this very common problem. I only wish I would have known about Ginkgo sooner.
Posted by IsoM on December 3, 2002, at 0:26:57
In reply to Re: a bit more... » IsoM, posted by bluedog on December 2, 2002, at 11:52:59
Sure, Hotmail is fine, but I just use it as a public addy. I have another one that's strictly private. If you do use Hotmail, the account info is set up to publicly provide your email address for commercial pruposes by default. Make sure you go into the account info set up & deselect the automatic default.
Or, if you use an internet provider in Ozzieland for yourself, don't they offer an email account free?
Posted by bluedog on December 3, 2002, at 3:09:38
In reply to email accounts... » bluedog, posted by IsoM on December 3, 2002, at 0:26:57
> but I just use it as a public addy. I have another one that's strictly private.
>
> Or, if you use an internet provider in Ozzieland for yourself, don't they offer an email account free?Yes I do have a free email service with my isp but I was thinking about a hotmail or yahoo account for public purposes like yourself.
I'm pretty careful about my privacy on the net and would never give out my private email account in a public forum such as psychobabble. (I hate spam...ggrrr)
OK, I'm going to go and set up my public account and you can expect an email from me in the next few days. :)
keep well
bluedog
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