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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by JLM on November 4, 2002, at 4:43:36
In reply to Re: Citalopram pharmacology » SLS, posted by dr. dave on October 31, 2002, at 8:26:26
I too get a bit tired of the ad nauseum claims of Lex's lower incidence of SE 's and efficiacy over Celexa.
We hear a lot about how 'the published studies' demonstrate both things clearly, even thou the data is contradictory at best.
Know what I would like to see? The UNPUBLISHED studies that would have had to have been submitted to the FDA for the approval of Lexapro. They can be obtained thru the Freedom of Information Act for those brave enough to do so. I would NOT be surprised to see several studies that show NO greater effect than either placebo or Celexa for that matter.
All we have so far are the studies done by paid Forrest consulants, which may not be all that objective.
Perhaps I will take the time to learn how to submit a FOIA request for the unpublished studies submitted to FDA. I bet there are some real gems in there.
Like Dr. Dave, I have yet to hear a remotely plausible explaination for the claims of less SE's with Lexapro.
Posted by Jaycee on November 4, 2002, at 5:01:38
In reply to Re: New idea, posted by cannoli on November 3, 2002, at 16:58:32
I took paxil prior to lex and my migraines were not as bad. I like lex but can't deal with these migraines. I have been reading about topamax for migraines, anyone taking it with lexapro?? This is my 6th week on lexapro.
Posted by sjb on November 4, 2002, at 8:26:48
In reply to Re: Does anyone notice they are never thirsty?, posted by Phyl on November 3, 2002, at 8:58:53
Yes! That is so weird that you mentioned that because I was just realizing how much less I'm drinking even when working out. At first I thought it was the cooler weather (that's some of it), but I used to drink a lot of water year round.
Also have the VERY weird, vivid dreams that I seem to be able to remember better. In fact when I wake up, I'm kinda shook up for a while and I have to remind myself it was just a dream, but they stay with me longer and seem more real, like they really happened. Also seems like I'm dreaming a lot more.
Posted by colin wallace on November 4, 2002, at 9:16:15
In reply to Hangover feeling.....strange anxious, posted by johnj on November 3, 2002, at 10:37:34
Hi there John,
Good to see you've finally ditched that nasty tricyclic!! You may get some exercise in soon if you're lucky.
My experience of ssri's is that I went through at least 4 or 5 weeks of increased anxiety and a highly strung/jittery type feeling(and a tendancy to blurt out silly, unguarded comments!) before they suddenly kicked in with a therapeutic effect- stick with it and take it easy.(still on lithium too??)All the best,
Col.
Posted by Alan on November 4, 2002, at 9:34:43
In reply to Re: Citalopram pharmacology, posted by JLM on November 4, 2002, at 4:43:36
> I too get a bit tired of the ad nauseum claims of Lex's lower incidence of SE 's and efficiacy over Celexa.
>
> We hear a lot about how 'the published studies' demonstrate both things clearly, even thou the data is contradictory at best.
>
> Know what I would like to see? The UNPUBLISHED studies that would have had to have been submitted to the FDA for the approval of Lexapro. They can be obtained thru the Freedom of Information Act for those brave enough to do so. I would NOT be surprised to see several studies that show NO greater effect than either placebo or Celexa for that matter.
>
> All we have so far are the studies done by paid Forrest consulants, which may not be all that objective.
>
> Perhaps I will take the time to learn how to submit a FOIA request for the unpublished studies submitted to FDA. I bet there are some real gems in there.
>
> Like Dr. Dave, I have yet to hear a remotely plausible explaination for the claims of less SE's with Lexapro.
>
>
>
============================================
Until the FDA has better oversight of the test results, the pharm. co.'s are allowed to cherry pick test results and throw out the undesired test results after having changed the test criteria until they get the result that they want - which the FDA never sees before adjudicating the drug's acceptance. Fox guarding the chicken coop.Alan
Posted by johnj on November 4, 2002, at 11:06:50
In reply to Re: Hangover feeling.....strange anxious » johnj, posted by colin wallace on November 4, 2002, at 9:16:15
Hey Colin,
How are things going? Still on the lamactal? I hope it is holding up for you.
My doc wants me on a thearaputic dose of lexapro before he will lower my TCA. I actually didn't take my lexapro dose last night and feel so much better. I see my doc this Friday and we need to talk about how to do this. I may jump to 5 mg and see how that is and just tough it out. I want off the TCA, but man that ssri felt horrible. Not as spaced out as remeron, but I did feel like you did (thinking I was goingto say or do something totally out of place). Where the hell does that come from? Lexapro..no s/e, yeah right.
I have two major stresses solved in my life right now, 1)my wife found a job, and 2) that engineering test is over!. So, I dropped down my benzo a bit and started lexapro the next day....probably not the wisest choice. I don't know what benzo withdrawl was so that may have played a part in my feeling so horrible this past weekend. Sometimes our meds give us a tough trade off. One thing I did notice is that the ssri did NOT affect my sex drive, it seemed to improve it.
Not sure where to proceed next, but sometimes I think I should get off the TCA no matter what and just start excercising and see if that holds.
Yes, I am still on the lithium. However it makes me sleepy in the morning so the morning of the test I didn't take it and was more alert. Sometimes I wonder if I need it?? The lithobid is the only type of lithium I can tolerate.
How is excercising going for you? Still biking? Take care
johnj
Posted by bridgette on November 4, 2002, at 15:14:15
In reply to Re: Citalopram pharmacology » JLM, posted by Alan on November 4, 2002, at 9:34:43
My Dr said he would add Wellbutrin to the Luxapro as a way of enhancing it and hopefully heping w/the sexual side effects. What does everyone think about that.? Anyone have any experience w/Wellbutrin. Actually, I hve been pleased w/what I've heard.
Posted by Brandymac26 on November 4, 2002, at 15:30:37
In reply to Re: answers » ANXIETY ANN, posted by pharmrep on November 3, 2002, at 20:28:29
Just started lexapro 4 days ago, any suggestions on the best time to take it, and how long it actually takes to work? Thanks
Posted by Brandymac26 on November 4, 2002, at 16:15:56
In reply to Re: Does anyone notice they are never thirsty?, posted by Dkk1040 on November 3, 2002, at 11:52:24
Have any of you noticed that it seems that people taking ssri's or med's in general for anxiety have worse side effects? I was a memeber of the celexa group at yahoo for about 8 months, and it also seemed to me that people taking it for anxiety had worse side effects than people taking it for depression? Weird!
Brandy
Posted by ANXIETY ANN on November 4, 2002, at 16:36:18
In reply to Luxapro and Wellbutrin, posted by bridgette on November 4, 2002, at 15:14:15
> My Dr said he would add Wellbutrin to the Luxapro as a way of enhancing it and hopefully heping w/the sexual side effects. What does everyone think about that.? Anyone have any experience w/Wellbutrin. Actually, I hve been pleased w/what I've heard.
Hi Bridgette
My doc also told me that he might add the wellbutrin with my Lexapro too. I am hesitate to add more drugs to what I already take (lexapro, adivan ) but if it helps the anxiety I guess its worth a try. I go see him tomorrow. Do you take Lexapro fro anxiety? If you do, do you notice that sometimes you get very anxious? I do especially in the mornings and evenings. It seems as though we all have some sort of s/e from these damned drugs!
Ann
Posted by syringachalet on November 4, 2002, at 16:45:45
In reply to Re: Anyone switched to Lexapro? « ggrrl, posted by dr. justin on November 1, 2002, at 12:32:24
I have been on lexapro for about five weeks now after being on Celexa for four years. I had severe PTSD related to severe prolonged childhood sex abuse that returned after a counselor inappropriately sexually tocuehd me and I fell apart.
The thing I notice most about the Lexapro is that my thought processses are clearer and my daily decision maing is better. I also dont miss the nightly changing my night shirt from profound sweating around the head and neck every night partly from the meds and partly from the stress of the flashbacks while I was sleeping. I also noticed I sleep 5-6 hours in a block vs 3-5 hours at night with none of the hang over I have had from so many ofthe other psych meds I have been on over the years.
Posted by ZeeZee on November 4, 2002, at 17:03:13
In reply to for people taking Lex for anxiety, posted by Brandymac26 on November 4, 2002, at 16:15:56
That's because SSRI's as a group are fairly ineffective for treating anxiety disorders and their negative s/e profile increases non-compliance for those who suffer from them.
The research and develpment of AD's has been focused on depression and not anxiety disorders, which though are similar in regards to biochemistry are different enough to warrant an AD developed specifically fot its treatment.
Posted by melinda on November 4, 2002, at 19:24:23
In reply to Re: migraines/lexapro/topamax, posted by Jaycee on November 4, 2002, at 5:01:38
The Lexapro makes my seizures worse, the Topamax makes my seizures better. Go figure.
-melinda
Posted by Ritch on November 4, 2002, at 21:01:03
In reply to for people taking Lex for anxiety, posted by Brandymac26 on November 4, 2002, at 16:15:56
> Have any of you noticed that it seems that people taking ssri's or med's in general for anxiety have worse side effects? I was a memeber of the celexa group at yahoo for about 8 months, and it also seemed to me that people taking it for anxiety had worse side effects than people taking it for depression? Weird!
> BrandyFolks that have panic attacks (situational or not), tend to be "over-tuned" into what their body is "telling them" and are generally med sensitive. I have a history of panic attacks and AD's that are used for panic have triggered intermittently increased panic attacks for me in a dose-dependent fashion. They (SSRI's/TCA's) have been useful overall to *reduce* the frequency, severity, and anticipation of panic attacks, but the only thing that has reliably worked for me to prevent panic has been clonazepam.
Posted by dr. dave on November 5, 2002, at 5:04:21
In reply to Re: Citalopram pharmacology » JLM, posted by Alan on November 4, 2002, at 9:34:43
> > I too get a bit tired of the ad nauseum claims of Lex's lower incidence of SE 's and efficiacy over Celexa.
> >
> > We hear a lot about how 'the published studies' demonstrate both things clearly, even thou the data is contradictory at best.
> >
> > Know what I would like to see? The UNPUBLISHED studies that would have had to have been submitted to the FDA for the approval of Lexapro. They can be obtained thru the Freedom of Information Act for those brave enough to do so. I would NOT be surprised to see several studies that show NO greater effect than either placebo or Celexa for that matter.
> >
> > All we have so far are the studies done by paid Forrest consulants, which may not be all that objective.
> >
> > Perhaps I will take the time to learn how to submit a FOIA request for the unpublished studies submitted to FDA. I bet there are some real gems in there.
> >
> > Like Dr. Dave, I have yet to hear a remotely plausible explaination for the claims of less SE's with Lexapro.
> >
> >
> >
> ============================================
> Until the FDA has better oversight of the test results, the pharm. co.'s are allowed to cherry pick test results and throw out the undesired test results after having changed the test criteria until they get the result that they want - which the FDA never sees before adjudicating the drug's acceptance. Fox guarding the chicken coop.
>
> Alan
>==================================================
Maybe Pharmrep could help us out with this.
To my knowledge, there have been four efficacy studies on escitalopram, two in the US and two in Europe and Canada.
Both US studies compared Lexapro with Celexa. Study MD-02 has not been presented, but we know it was a 'failed' study in the sense that it showed no statistically significant difference between Lexapro, Celexa and placebo (see Cipralex product monograph at www.cipralex.com, page 22.)
The other study (MD-01, published by Burke et al) showed no statistically significant difference between Celexa and Lexapro on the measure they had previously defined as the primary outcome measure.
One of the European studies compared Lexapro with Celexa (study 99003, described in papers by Lepola et al, Montgomery et al and Reines et al. Note that these are not seperate trials but the same trial reported several times.) Again this showed no statistically significant difference between Lexapro and Celexa on the previously defined main outcome measure.
If there have been other trials comparing the efficacy of Celexa and Lexapro I'm sure we'd all like to know about them.
Posted by Anyuser on November 5, 2002, at 9:40:28
In reply to Re: Lexapro 'failed' trial, posted by dr. dave on November 5, 2002, at 5:04:21
I wonder why someone switching from Celexa to Lexapro would experience any new side effects or ramp-up time at all. Lexapro is supposed to be only the efficacious half of Celexa. One would think the switch would be entirely transparent, with a reduction of s/e at best, or no change whatsoever at worst. Any theories?
Posted by Brandymac26 on November 5, 2002, at 9:52:09
In reply to Re: for people taking Lex for anxiety » Brandymac26, posted by Ritch on November 4, 2002, at 21:01:03
Do you think that there are other med's out there that do work more effectively for anxiety other than ssri's? It seems like everytime I start a new drug, my anxiety gets worse, and over time the side effects get a little better, but they never fully make my anxiety go away. I take lex and xanax, and honestly, my increased anxiety (side effect) is the same as it was while I was taking the celexa. So far I dont think this is as great as everyone made it out to be. Thanks for the reply!
Posted by Brandymac26 on November 5, 2002, at 9:58:00
In reply to Why the new side effects?, posted by Anyuser on November 5, 2002, at 9:40:28
> I wonder why someone switching from Celexa to Lexapro would experience any new side effects or ramp-up time at all. Lexapro is supposed to be only the efficacious half of Celexa. One would think the switch would be entirely transparent, with a reduction of s/e at best, or no change whatsoever at worst. Any theories?
I took celexa for over a year, and have just started taking lexapro 5 days ago, and so far my side effects arent quite as bad as they were on the celexa, but I havent experienced any different side effects on lexapro than I did on celexa. Also, if it helps, I was off of my med's for 6 months before i started taking celexa, so I figured that the side effects would as bad if not worse than they were on celexa, but thank God there not.
Posted by TwoFeathers on November 5, 2002, at 10:29:29
In reply to Anyone switched to Lexapro? « ggrrl, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2002, at 7:52:48
I am on Lexapro, and i do have more energy. i had taken Zoloft and Prozac and felt like a zombie. so far i'm not sure about the sexual side-effects on account that i recently broke up with my boyfriend. but i like lexapro a lot better than any of the other antidepressants i've taken.
Posted by tiredofthis on November 5, 2002, at 11:21:16
In reply to Re: Luxapro and Wellbutrin, posted by ANXIETY ANN on November 4, 2002, at 16:36:18
> > My Dr said he would add Wellbutrin to the Luxapro as a way of enhancing it and hopefully heping w/the sexual side effects. What does everyone think about that.? Anyone have any experience w/Wellbutrin. Actually, I hve been pleased w/what I've heard.
>
> Hi Bridgette
> My doc also told me that he might add the wellbutrin with my Lexapro too. I am hesitate to add more drugs to what I already take (lexapro, adivan ) but if it helps the anxiety I guess its worth a try. I go see him tomorrow. Do you take Lexapro fro anxiety? If you do, do you notice that sometimes you get very anxious? I do especially in the mornings and evenings. It seems as though we all have some sort of s/e from these damned drugs!
> AnnHello!
I have been taking Wellbutrin for few months now. At first it seem to work but I start having really bad headeches. My doc increase my dose, and I got very anxious and irritable. The sex is great but that was about the only thing (when I was in the mood for it). So now my doc told me to stop Wellbutrin and I just star taking Lexapro. I don't know any of the side effects, that's why I got in the website. Let me know how it works taking both of them.
Posted by ROO on November 5, 2002, at 11:28:50
In reply to Re: Luxapro and Wellbutrin, posted by tiredofthis on November 5, 2002, at 11:21:16
If the standard dose of Celexa was 20 mg's...why
is the standard dose of lexapro 10 mg's (since that
is equivalent to 40 mg's of celexa) seems like the standard
dose should be 5 mg's.....
Posted by Katarina on November 5, 2002, at 12:13:06
In reply to Re: for people taking Lex for anxiety » Ritch, posted by Brandymac26 on November 5, 2002, at 9:52:09
> Do you think that there are other med's out there that do work more effectively for anxiety other than ssri's? It seems like everytime I start a new drug, my anxiety gets worse, and over time the side effects get a little better, but they never fully make my anxiety go away. I take lex and xanax, and honestly, my increased anxiety (side effect) is the same as it was while I was taking the celexa. So far I dont think this is as great as everyone made it out to be. Thanks for the reply!
-----------------------
I started on Prozac, having told my doctor of my depression. I failed to say that anxiety was part of it. Prozac worked like a charm for the depression but I was bouncing off the walls and it did nothing for the anxiety. After discussing more in depth my symptoms, I was given Effexor, which didn't work. Now I'm on Lexapro...it's been 3 weeks now and no great relief. I called the doc to give a report, told of my continued anxiety so he added Serax (today). I really don't know about this...I'm with you in that there must be another way. I feel as if my anxiety level is climbing, too. Perhaps we feel like guinea pigs?
Those of you who have tried a better approach, feel free to opine.
Thanks,
Kat
Posted by Ritch on November 5, 2002, at 12:50:15
In reply to Re: for people taking Lex for anxiety » Ritch, posted by Brandymac26 on November 5, 2002, at 9:52:09
> Do you think that there are other med's out there that do work more effectively for anxiety other than ssri's? It seems like everytime I start a new drug, my anxiety gets worse, and over time the side effects get a little better, but they never fully make my anxiety go away. I take lex and xanax, and honestly, my increased anxiety (side effect) is the same as it was while I was taking the celexa. So far I dont think this is as great as everyone made it out to be. Thanks for the reply!
Hi, there are other antidepressants besides the SSRI's that have also been used with success for anxiety. Trazodone, Serzone, and tricyclics such as amitripytline, nortriptyline, and doxepin, and the MAOI's. The level of success will be highly individual. If *all* SSRI's tend to cause more agitation for someone, then it would be logical to try an antidpressant from another class. There could be an unwarranted bias by pdocs for SSRI's that goes beyond their safety profile.
Posted by bluedog on November 5, 2002, at 13:03:43
In reply to Re: Lexapro 'failed' trial, posted by dr. dave on November 5, 2002, at 5:04:21
Dr Dave
I have been following this thread with much interest. ( I have taken citalopram and my mother and sister-in-law are both currently taking citalopram. I currently take fluoxetine as citalopram was just too sedating for me).
I greatly respect your opinions and based on your line of reasoning I can see no reason for either myself or my relatives to switch to escitalopram.
I would love to ask you a question. I noticed that SLS recently asked you about your background. Going through the posts it seems you have answered similar questions since at least August last year. On 20 August 2001 you also mentioned that you work in a little village in the mountains of Wales.
My question is this........ are you the same Dr Dave as descibed by the Guardian as "director of the North Wales department of psychological medicine and the UK's foremost expert in antidepressants"? ( see http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4201752,00.html ) or is it just a coincidence that their are two psychiatrists in North Wales called Dr Dave who happen to be very knowledgeable about antidepressant medications?
just curious
regards
Posted by THOV on November 5, 2002, at 14:50:45
In reply to Re: that Phil, he's a manly hi-T kind of guy ;-) (nm) » Phil, posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 15:35:49
Question for any of you experts...
Just started lexapro...10mg
can i drink alcoholic beverages while taking this medication? How will effect me?
this is my 2nd day..First day I was very nauseated...I am very concerned about the sexual s/e's
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