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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Thrud on October 30, 2002, at 4:51:34
Hi all.
I've been on medication continuously for 12+ years for severe depression and anxiety...and I'm tired of it.
Medications work for me but I am at breaking point with their side effects: insomnia, fatigue, mental fuzziness and impotence amongst many. How long can we put up with them before something snaps? I am at that point.
I need a vacation from medication. My pdoc and I have been talking seriously about ECT. We are considering unilateral only in order to minimize cognitive side effects.
At present I am researching all I can about unilateral ECT (I would consider bifrontal too but there dosen't seem to be much information on it). From what I have read, I consider the possibility of catastrophic memory disruption to be low but at least some mild to moderate amount to be high.
I am very nervous about taking this huge step: I am afraid that memory problems will not allow me to remain in a professional career, or that I will be severely stigmatized if people find out.
But I desperately need a vacation from medication. The last 12 years have been a twilight life: a joyless, (sub-optimal) functionality.Forgive my ramblings: I'm not quite sure what I want people to say in response to this but please feel free to say whatever comes to mind. I haven't decided yet to take this enormous (and disastrous?) step. Maybe you can swing me one way or the other...
Yours in being sick of medication,
Thrud
Posted by Essence on October 30, 2002, at 5:31:10
In reply to ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by Thrud on October 30, 2002, at 4:51:34
From what I've read here on this forum, people who have ECT are put right back on meds as maintenance therapy. I was always under the impression that if a person had ECT, they wouldn't need meds, not so, according to posters here.
Ess
Posted by Lyn on October 30, 2002, at 9:05:27
In reply to ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by Thrud on October 30, 2002, at 4:51:34
> Medications work for me but I am at breaking point with their side effects: insomnia, fatigue, mental fuzziness and impotence amongst many. How long can we put up with them before something snaps? I am at that point.
>
> I need a vacation from medication. My pdoc and I have been talking seriously about ECT. We are considering unilateral only in order to minimize cognitive side effects.ECT is not generally considered sufficient on its own; medications need to continue to be taken.
> At present I am researching all I can about unilateral ECT (I would consider bifrontal too but there dosen't seem to be much information on it). From what I have read, I consider the possibility of catastrophic memory disruption to be low but at least some mild to moderate amount to be high.
>A perusal of this board will show varying opinions about ECT. Some find it very helpful. Others, like me, suffered huge memory loss, confusion and inablility to think clearly or speak properly for some time afterwards. However, there is no knowing how it will affect or work for you unless you try it. Every person is different.
> But I desperately need a vacation from medication. The last 12 years have been a twilight life: a joyless, (sub-optimal) functionality.This being the case, do you really think the meds have been working for you? Surely the idea is to feel better - even happy from time to time - and to function at a higher level than without them? Have you been on the same meds for the last 12 years? Would it help to review them?
>
> Forgive my ramblings: I'm not quite sure what I want people to say in response to this but please feel free to say whatever comes to mind. I haven't decided yet to take this enormous (and disastrous?) step. Maybe you can swing me one way or the other...
>I don't consider your post to be 'ramblings'. It seems that everyone here is trying to become well and hoping that somewhere amidst the posts someone will say something illuminating that will lead the reader on to the path to wellness. I can't tell you what to do; no-one can. However, when I was in a position where nothing was helping, I did try ECT.
Posted by Thrud on October 30, 2002, at 15:52:27
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by Lyn on October 30, 2002, at 9:05:27
Hi Lyn.
I'm sorry to hear you had such problems with ECT. There is more I would like to know about your experience but if it makes you feel uncomfortable feel free not to reply.
Did you receive bilateral or unilateral treatments? Was the disruption to your memory retrograde (memories before your ECT) or anterograde (sp?) (forming new memories after ECT) or both? Did you permanently lose some memories? How long before you recovered your problems with speech?
Thanks much
Thrud
Posted by Thrud on October 30, 2002, at 15:58:17
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by Essence on October 30, 2002, at 5:31:10
Hi Essence.
Maintenance ECT does exist and is an option for some people, but it is true that most are put back on medication after an acute phase of ECT.
There could be several reasons why maintenance ECT is not as popular as medication and I am researching this. My fear is that maintenance ECT is not compatible with a high level of functioning. Then again, neither is partially effective medication with lots of side effects.
Thrud
Posted by bpgrrrl on October 30, 2002, at 17:59:07
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited » Essence, posted by Thrud on October 30, 2002, at 15:58:17
A relative of mine received ECT - as she got older she became more and more catatonic and then suffered from a brain tumor.
My family is convinced these are only some of the long term side effects of ECT.
Research Research Research...
University of Chicago Hospitals would be one of the few places I would recommend to at least discuss the possiblity. Meet with a doc there who believes it will help - then try and meet with one that has a different opinion.
My recommendation is keep researching.
Try different meds.
Have you tried Depakote?
Posted by Geezer on October 30, 2002, at 22:11:06
In reply to ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by Thrud on October 30, 2002, at 4:51:34
> Hi all.
>
> I've been on medication continuously for 12+ years for severe depression and anxiety...and I'm tired of it.
>
> Medications work for me but I am at breaking point with their side effects: insomnia, fatigue, mental fuzziness and impotence amongst many. How long can we put up with them before somethingsnaps? I am at that point.
I have just completed 7 bilateral ECT treatments and now go to a once per week maintainance, then once a month. I will be adding Parnate to my current meds.....0.5 Klonopin and 10mg of Ambien. So far I am having very good results......memory loss not to great and comes back with prompting. I suffered 30 years of off-and-on ADs, not surprizing with little success. The ECT has brought me out of a 14 month coma, things are not perfect yet but I don't know why I waited so long, its my present opinion this should be the treatrment of first choice for TRD.....not the last resort. I am not here to sell anything but will be happy to share progress as I go along. For me the treatments are completely painless and provide the best relief I have had in years. I don't know what your career entails but I would bet there is away to function normally. I am retired and just couldn't stand anymore pain. I am Unipolat Major Depression/Recurrent/Meluncholic....have had a treatment resistant history for the past 2 years.
If I can be of help from personal experience I will be happy to share, (I am 58 year old male).Wish you the very best,
Geezer
>
> I need a vacation from medication. My pdoc and I have been talking seriously about ECT. We are considering unilateral only in order to minimize cognitive side effects.
>
> At present I am researching all I can about unilateral ECT (I would consider bifrontal too but there dosen't seem to be much information on it). From what I have read, I consider the possibility of catastrophic memory disruption to be low but at least some mild to moderate amount to be high.
>
> I am very nervous about taking this huge step: I am afraid that memory problems will not allow me to remain in a professional career, or that I will be severely stigmatized if people find out.
> But I desperately need a vacation from medication. The last 12 years have been a twilight life: a joyless, (sub-optimal) functionality.
>
> Forgive my ramblings: I'm not quite sure what I want people to say in response to this but please feel free to say whatever comes to mind. I haven't decided yet to take this enormous (and disastrous?) step. Maybe you can swing me one way or the other...
>
> Yours in being sick of medication,
>
> Thrud
>
Posted by Lyn on October 31, 2002, at 3:09:57
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited » Lyn, posted by Thrud on October 30, 2002, at 15:52:27
> Did you receive bilateral or unilateral treatments?
Firstly I had bilateral treatment then, later, unilateral for one single session. It was the unilateral that I found the worst. After that session my counsellor visited me. Although I could hear the sound when she spoke, I couldn't make any sense of it, let alone formulate a reply. She put an end to the madness (At that point I was being forced to have ECT against my will.)
>Was the disruption to your memory retrograde (memories before your ECT) or anterograde (sp?) (forming new memories after ECT) or both?
To a large extent retrograde. For example, I didn't remember my children or that I even had any; couldn't remember anything about the work I used to do, and so on. I do have problems remembering things currently (five years later), but am unsure whether to attribute that to ECT or simply to depression/PTSD/anxiety. Regardless, a great deal of 1997 (when I had the ECT, 10 sessions in all), is gone from my memory.
>Did you permanently lose some memories?
Definitely. See above.
>How long before you recovered your problems with speech?
Probably a few months before I started coming right again. Even now I can struggle to find common words; again, as with the memory issues, I'm not sure how much of the current problem is ECT-related and how much is actually a symptom of the illness itself.
Hope this helps. Again, as I said before, not all people have the problems I had. I see that there are already positive replies to your post. Elsewhere on this board you will find other threads discussing ECT and sharing similar enthusiastic responses.
All the best; I hope you find something that helps.
Lyn
Posted by Bill L on October 31, 2002, at 13:01:50
In reply to ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by Thrud on October 30, 2002, at 4:51:34
From what I understand, ECT has good results with some people.
Have you tried the new drug Lexapro? If not, maybe you should give it a try first. I feel less tired and more mentally clear on Lexapro than I did on Prozac or Celexa. And it works very well for both my anxiety and depression.
Posted by cab on October 31, 2002, at 15:01:51
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited » Thrud, posted by Geezer on October 30, 2002, at 22:11:06
Yes, please do let us know how you do. I -- and others, I'm sure -- have in the back of my mind that I might try ECT in the future.
Thanks.> I am not here to sell anything but will be happy to share progress as I go along.
Posted by Denise528 on November 1, 2002, at 11:43:06
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by cab on October 31, 2002, at 15:01:51
Why don't the doctors do before and after spect scans on people who have ECT to see if any patterns emerge with those who respond well and those who don't. It might provide an indicator for future patients and give them some idea of how people are going to respond.
It seems such a huge risk to take right now, when some people say it has save their lives and others have been left devastated by it.
Denise
Posted by Thrud on November 3, 2002, at 4:47:03
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited » Thrud, posted by Geezer on October 30, 2002, at 22:11:06
>
> If I can be of help from personal experience I will be happy to share, (I am 58 year old male).
>That is very kind of you. If you would like, I can setup a new webmail address so we can continue this conversation privately.
Thrud
Posted by Geezer on November 3, 2002, at 21:40:56
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited » Geezer, posted by Thrud on November 3, 2002, at 4:47:03
> >
> > If I can be of help from personal experience I will be happy to share, (I am 58 year old male).
> >
>
> That is very kind of you. If you would like, I can setup a new webmail address so we can continue this conversation privately.
>
> ThrudHi Thrud,
Sounds like a good idea....since ECT is a bit off-topic (not drugs) Dr. Bob may prefer we take the topic off the board.
I can tell you 8 treatments have brought me out of 14 months of darkness, it really seems strange to "see" the sunshine, notice the changing fall colors, etc. There is some memory loss but nothing devastating. I see the pdoc tomorrow and expect two things to happen - he will want to start Parnate along with the maintenance ECT (one ECT per week for awhile, then one per month). The other strong recommendation will be to see a psychologist for Cognative Therapy......that one gets a NO. In my case I will accept REAL medical treatment - I wouldn't go to a chiropractor for open-heart surgery. Will do my best to keep you up to date.
Best regards,
Geezer
>
Posted by Thrud on November 4, 2002, at 2:49:10
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited » Thrud, posted by Geezer on November 3, 2002, at 21:40:56
>> Hi Thrud,
>
> Sounds like a good idea....since ECT is a bit off-topic (not drugs) Dr. Bob may prefer we take the topic off the board.I've set up a hotmail account: [email protected]
Email me when you are ready.>The other strong recommendation will be to see a psychologist for Cognative Therapy......that one gets a NO. In my case I will accept REAL medical treatment - I wouldn't go to a chiropractor for open-heart surgery.
I understand completely. There is no doubt that depression *can* be caused by distorted thinking, circumstances etc, but you know it when you've got a real medical problem instead. I definitely fall into this category.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Thrud
Posted by Thrud on November 4, 2002, at 4:03:45
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by Thrud on November 4, 2002, at 2:49:10
Posted by Thrud on November 4, 2002, at 4:13:49
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by bpgrrrl on October 30, 2002, at 17:59:07
Hi.
One thing I have decided now (based on my research) is that I would only ever consent to unilateral ECT, should I choose to go through with it. The memory risks with bilateral are just too great. I have ordered a book about ECT written by someone from Chicago (Abrams?): it's about as close as I'm going to get to Chicago for the time being. (Pity, I really enjoy Chicago.)
No, I have not tried Depakote. I am on the mood stabilizer/anti-convulsant Lamictal (ironic since I am considering having seizures purposefully inflicted on me). Based on my experience with Lamictal, they seem better than nothing but I don't like them much. Lamictal really flattens my emotions; I function but I do not get much pleasure from life. (BTW the benzos have a similar effect on me). Pretty much an Android's existence. I'd have to hear some pretty amazing things about Depakote to try it.
Thrud
Posted by Denise528 on November 4, 2002, at 4:14:30
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited » Thrud, posted by Geezer on November 3, 2002, at 21:40:56
Hi Geezer,
Could you tell me if prior to having the ECT were you functioning at all or were you completely bedridden. Also, has having the ECT helped the ADs to work.
The reason I ask is that I have been having a bad bout of depression (I always feel such a fraud saying that) with suicidal ideations for over a year now and the ADs that used to work so well no longer work. I am however, still functioning but that is all.
Sometimes I would do anything just to feel normal again but everytime I mention ECT people look at me as if I'm being over dramatic.
Denise
Posted by Thrud on November 4, 2002, at 4:16:02
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by Denise528 on November 1, 2002, at 11:43:06
> Why don't the doctors do before and after spect scans on people who have ECT to see if any patterns emerge with those who respond well and those who don't. It might provide an indicator for future patients and give them some idea of how people are going to respond.
I would really like to see before-and-after SPECT snapshots but I am sure I couldn't afford it.
Thrud
Posted by Denise528 on November 4, 2002, at 4:19:32
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited » Thrud, posted by Geezer on November 3, 2002, at 21:40:56
Hi Geezer,
Could you tell me if prior to having the ECT were you functioning at all or were you completely bedridden. Also, has having the ECT helped the ADs to work.
The reason I ask is that I have been having a bad bout of depression (I always feel such a fraud saying that) with suicidal ideations for over a year now and the ADs that used to work so well no longer work. I am however, still functioning but that is all.
Sometimes I would do anything just to feel normal again but everytime I mention ECT people look at me as if I'm being over dramatic.
Denise
Posted by Thrud on November 4, 2002, at 4:19:34
In reply to Re: ECT opinions cordially invited, posted by Bill L on October 31, 2002, at 13:01:50
I always get bad sexual side effects from the SSRIs and therefore they are intolerable to me. I could probably handle them if it weren't for that. I don't see why Lexapro should be any different.
Even Remeron, Serzone and Wellbutrin give me sexual problems.Thrud
Posted by Geezer on November 4, 2002, at 9:52:00
In reply to Re: To Geezer, posted by Denise528 on November 4, 2002, at 4:14:30
> Hi Geezer,
>
> Could you tell me if prior to having the ECT were you functioning at all or were you completely bedridden. Also, has having the ECT helped the ADs to work.
>
> The reason I ask is that I have been having a bad bout of depression (I always feel such a fraud saying that) with suicidal ideations for over a year now and the ADs that used to work so well no longer work. I am however, still functioning but that is all.
>
> Sometimes I would do anything just to feel normal again but everytime I mention ECT people look at me as if I'm being over dramatic.
>
>
>
> DeniseHi Denise,
I was still functional when I began ECT but I had reached the point where NO AD had the slightest effect on my depression (I had used most all of them). I remain hopeful the ECT will revitalize my response to ADs (I feel they will be needed over the long run). I will see my pdoc today a 3:00 and expect he will start Parnate.
You sound like you are very much in the same condition I was in.....that being the case you are NO FRAUD!! I think ECT has received a very bad rap for no good reason, don't be afraid to move forward.
Please keep us informed.
Geezer
Posted by Denise528 on November 4, 2002, at 15:00:20
In reply to Re: To Geezer » Denise528, posted by Geezer on November 4, 2002, at 9:52:00
Geezer,
Thanks for getting back to me, I really hope you continue to stay well.
Prior to having ECT, did you try antipsychotics prior to having ECT? I have one card up my sleeve which is Zyprexa (it's the only drug that has helped this time round) but it's not the card I want to play right now. There are people on this board that strongly disagree with taking antipsychotics for depression and I don't really feel right about taking them.
I just want the ADs to work like they used to and I was hoping that ECT might make them work again. My reasoning is that if I have ECT and it doestn't work then I can always go on the Zyprexa but my fear is that maybe even the Zyprexa won't work after having ECT. I just don't want to burn all of my bridges.
I know one can really say for sure how ECT will work but it would be reassuring to know that ECT doestn't stop drugs that have helped from helping at all.
Denise
Denise
Posted by jyl on November 4, 2002, at 16:30:51
In reply to Re: To Geezer, posted by Denise528 on November 4, 2002, at 15:00:20
denise
i need to understand why i have to carve up my body when i get down?
i know i have depression but i need to knowwhy i have to take it out on me.
on effexor(150)
cn you hep?
tired of the scares
jyl
Posted by Denise528 on November 5, 2002, at 12:24:59
In reply to denise pleasehelp » Denise528, posted by jyl on November 4, 2002, at 16:30:51
Hi,
I'm really sorry I can't advise you as I am far from being an expert on this (or anything) for that matter. I am sure there are other people on this board that suffer from the same symptoms as you though and will be able to advise. Has the effexor not helped at all?
Denise
This is the end of the thread.
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