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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cybercafe on September 26, 2002, at 23:54:59
when i first started zyprexa a month ago i had horrible movement disorders -- now they are all 100% gone!
sedation went away mostly after 4 days
Posted by chad_3 on September 27, 2002, at 3:14:22
In reply to zyprexa good news , posted by cybercafe on September 26, 2002, at 23:54:59
I'm sorry to hear that Cyber - it is amazing to me it seems like so many here don't even mention their drug induced movement disorders. The literature continues to hide the high prevalence rate..... I had neurologists refusing to see me as they knew they would have to diagnose...
The Dr. who made my problem worse with zyprexa (took 3 days of 1mg each day for 3 days) - then later wanted me to go on it permanent. I have SP and zyprexa is the stupidest drug for dopamine low type condition - those with SP 5 times the risk for parkinson's and abnormally low striatal dopamine receptor levels - as well as pregnenolone levels (sex steroid linked to incrased DA levels in either limbic and/or NA can't recall...
So the zyprexa masks your tardive movements well? It does do that well - because it blocks both serotonin and dopamine potentely - it can treat the most complex of movements disorders, including combinations of tardive dyskinesia, tardive dystonia, other dystonias, hyperkinetics like chorea, tic , many tardive disorders....
DR. BOB: WHERE IS PSYCHIATRIC ETHICS????????
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/> when i first started zyprexa a month ago i had horrible movement disorders -- now they are all 100% gone!
>
> sedation went away mostly after 4 days
Posted by house on September 27, 2002, at 8:36:06
In reply to DR BOB Here is another TARDIVE victim!!!!, posted by chad_3 on September 27, 2002, at 3:14:22
I took 5mg of zyprexa for about 10 months which also gave me a movement disorder. Not exactly sure what to call it. My legs and arms seem to twitch every 30 seconds or so.
Posted by Denise528 on September 27, 2002, at 10:02:18
In reply to zyprexa good news , posted by cybercafe on September 26, 2002, at 23:54:59
Cybercafe,
I'm pleased for you (although I'm not sure about that, after reading the thread from Chad). I hope the Zyprexa istn't just masking the symptoms.
Denise
Posted by crepuscular on September 27, 2002, at 11:44:20
In reply to zyprexa good news , posted by cybercafe on September 26, 2002, at 23:54:59
I've had problems with Seroquel too - lip twitching, arms twitching, my neck frozen stuck. Forced to stop.
Sadly, it worked really well for me in terms of my brian (i have some variation of bipolar disorder, severity ranging from mood cycling, to semi-psychotic states). so i need something, but the atypicals will destroy me.
How about aripirazole? anybody know if this has movement disorders associated with it?
Posted by Mr. SadPuppyDog on September 27, 2002, at 12:06:13
In reply to zyprexa good news , posted by cybercafe on September 26, 2002, at 23:54:59
> when i first started zyprexa a month ago i had horrible movement disorders -- now they are all 100% gone!
>
> sedation went away mostly after 4 daysCybercafe...I seriously doubt you had a "horrible movement disorder" on Zyprexa. You probably had actute EPS at worst. It usually goes away quickly upon stopping the antipsychotic, providing you stop it in reasonable time. Id forget about it. Ive had the other kind, where I had EPS symptoms on the antipsychotic I ignored or was ignorant about, then it hit me hard AFTER I went off the drug and still have residual problems.
I swear I think atypical anti-psychotics should be OUTLAWED and made illegal for anything other than the classic psychotic disorders like schizophrenia, some manic depressives also seem to need them. For regular depression, even severe, FORGET ABOUT THEM!!!
Mr. Sad PuppyDog
Posted by McPac on September 27, 2002, at 15:18:11
In reply to Re: zyprexa good news , posted by Mr. SadPuppyDog on September 27, 2002, at 12:06:13
What is EPS?
thnx
Posted by cybercafe on September 27, 2002, at 18:19:03
In reply to Re: zyprexa good news , posted by Mr. SadPuppyDog on September 27, 2002, at 12:06:13
sorry -- to clarify, i had no movement probs before starting zyprexa
> Cybercafe...I seriously doubt you had a "horrible movement disorder" on Zyprexa. You
okay i don't know what horrible is then, it just bothered me at the time
>probably had actute EPS at worst. It usually goes away quickly upon stopping the antipsychotic, providing you stop it in reasonable time. Id forget about it. Ive had the
i was just commenting that it went away while i was still on the med... which i thought people might want to know, since everyone had told me it wouldn't go away unless i stopped the med
>other kind, where I had EPS symptoms on the antipsychotic I ignored or was ignorant about, then it hit me hard AFTER I went off the drug and still have residual problems.
oh... what drug was that?
> I swear I think atypical anti-psychotics should be OUTLAWED and made illegal for anything other than the classic psychotic disorders like schizophrenia, some manic depressives also seem to need them. For regular depression, even severe, FORGET ABOUT THEM!!!
hmmm... if zyprexa made me 100%, i don't think i'd mind taking it for the rest of my life....
i can't seem to think of any other drug for consistent rapid thinking/attention shifting
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 27, 2002, at 19:42:03
In reply to Re: zyprexa good news , posted by Mr. SadPuppyDog on September 27, 2002, at 12:06:13
> I seriously doubt you had a "horrible movement disorder" on Zyprexa.
To repeat, please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel their experiences have been put down.
Bob
Posted by cybercafe on September 27, 2002, at 21:28:41
In reply to Re: please be civil » Mr. SadPuppyDog, posted by Dr. Bob on September 27, 2002, at 19:42:03
> > I seriously doubt you had a "horrible movement disorder" on Zyprexa.
>
> To repeat, please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel their experiences have been put down.
>
> BobThanks Dr. Bob. I wasn't too offended -- my feelings are that it is so difficult to get help in the mental health industry any responses are appreciated . . . hell, anyone with decent advice can come to my house and beat me with a baseball bat if they wish :) :)
Hugs and Kisses
Posted by chad_3 on September 28, 2002, at 1:41:43
In reply to Re: zyprexa good news , posted by cybercafe on September 27, 2002, at 18:19:03
Hi - I hope this is ok (civil) - because I really am being sincere here.
If these posts are all true - we are seing several people posting without psychosis (I think) or skitzophrenia who developed movement disorders on these new widely prescribed and supposedly (per most Dr. literature) "safe" atypical antipsychotics....
The fact that most patients are not informed of what is going on is not only not surprising - but it is to be expected - because the movement disorder stuff is complicated - although preventing them from developing in the first place is not - and the psychiatrists are masking the problem and in time people will find out why they went from treating psychiatric problem to treatming neurological problems AND psychiatric problems (much harder often - and not fun!!!!)
I wanted to reply to Cybercafe and promise I am being sincere and in no way intend to be sarcastic ...
> sorry -- to clarify, i had no movement probs before starting zyprexa
>
The DA blockers (atypicals) - such as Zyprexa and the older even more dangerous antipsychotics are the drugs which cause them. The fact that you had no movements before Zyprexa is your evidence that Zyprexa CAUSED your movements...(at least acute and maybe chronic) Trust me - I know what I am talking about.> okay i don't know what horrible is then, it just bothered me at the time
>
I can certainly understand if it felt horrible having abnormal movments - that certainly is how I feel about the movements I have had - very much so!!> i was just commenting that it went away while i was still on the med... which i thought people might want to know, since everyone had told me it wouldn't go away unless i stopped the med
The norm is that if you continue taking the antipsychotic (zyprexa in this case) - it will *mask* any chronic problem. Hopefully you have only had "acute" (less than a couple days) of movements - and furthermore - if you go off the drug you will not discover you have chronic movements which had been masked.
It is likely (I think probable) that you would *not* have chronic movements as you continue taking the zyprexa you started - because those a/p's mask chronic movements extremely well.
If you do have chronic movements while continuing to take the drug - that is a sure sign of chronic movement disorder - and almost always - movements which are chrnoic while on the a/p will tend to worsen as dose is lowered - and most worse when completely stopping. A/p's both *cause* - and also "treat" (mask) tardive movements.
>
> >other kind, where I had EPS symptoms on the antipsychotic I ignored or was ignorant about, then it hit me hard AFTER I went off the drug and still have residual problems.Yes. And in other cases - there is no apparent problem while on the drug - but discontinuation of the drug reveals a chronic movement disorder which was developed but "masked" my maintance treatment with the antipsychotic. It is conversial treatment strategy to *increase* the dose of the continuously used antipsychotic if movements worsen while on a specific given dose.
> hmmm... if zyprexa made me 100%, i don't think i'd mind taking it for the rest of my life....
I believe in the individuals right to choose - as what is right for one maybe is not for another.
I *do* think that the ability of these new atypicals to cause movement disorders in many people is basically not well understood yet - except perhaps by a certain subgroup of the medical community.
Once established, the Dr's at this point, IMO, tend to feel a need to treat the problem they caused - and this often means continued use of the drug causing the problem in the first place. Atypicals are safer than older ones - and these are the ones used now - but IMO they are far from safe - and I think we are beginning to find this out - and this includes my own personal experience with 2 a/p's given to me to treat mood disorder.
There are not a lot of treatments for movement disoders at this time. Mainly the options are continuing the offending atypical (or a "safer" one) - or benzodizepines. Sometimes anticulsants or rarely other novel meds. Movements are difficult to treat and can great compromise the ability to treat the precedent and continuing psychiatric diagnosis. In some cases the overall psychiatric condition may worsen either directly and/or indirectly as a result of the damage done to the brain by the antipsyotic - or the anxiety / depression associated with abnormal movements....
Thanks for your forum Dr. Bob.
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/
>
> i can't seem to think of any other drug for consistent rapid thinking/attention shifting
>
Posted by Guy on September 28, 2002, at 11:05:30
In reply to Tardive stuff serious - here a classic thread, posted by chad_3 on September 28, 2002, at 1:41:43
I'm currently taking Celexa and clonazepam. However, my shrink says he's keeping Zyprexa as a back-up in case things don't improve. He calls it "the Cadillac of anxiety meds." I think I'll stick to my volkwagon!
Posted by McPac on September 28, 2002, at 18:38:55
In reply to Tardive stuff serious - here a classic thread, posted by chad_3 on September 28, 2002, at 1:41:43
Wow---I never knew!
Many years ago, I had a terribly lousy pdoc that put me on the wrong crap (this guy was later thrown in jail, NOT for me, but years later he was nailed for gross neglect of patients...he was pathetic for me too).......anyway...he had me on a HIGH-dose of Haldol for, I believe, 3 days...I stopped taking it after that.......COULD that have caused my abnormal movements that I have had after that? After that pdoc, another one had me on a low-medium dose of Mellaril for years....could that have done it? Geez.....all these years I thought it was a problem that I just developed on my own! PLEASE let me know what you think! Does Catapres work? Is it 'safe'?
Posted by McPac on September 28, 2002, at 18:42:34
In reply to Tardive stuff serious - here a classic thread, posted by chad_3 on September 28, 2002, at 1:41:43
And, to further clarify, what is extremely angering is the fact that I have never been psychotic at all....depression and ocd are my main problems...that Haldol and Mellaril GARBAGE was totally unnecessary.
Posted by chad_3 on September 28, 2002, at 18:56:38
In reply to That's scary!, posted by Guy on September 28, 2002, at 11:05:30
Hey Guy -
Guy -
After 6 months off SP treatment for first time in 7 years - I resumed couple weeks ago to a simple but effective regimen I've used much in past - 60 nardil + 4.5 klonopin - 60 nardil is low for me, 4.5 klonopin therapeutic level for me on SP. I tolerate this combo well.
Good luck with all and feel free to write anytime.
As I have re-started treatment - I need to get off internet too much...
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/
> I'm currently taking Celexa and clonazepam. However, my shrink says he's keeping Zyprexa as a back-up in case things don't improve. He calls it "the Cadillac of anxiety meds." I think I'll stick to my volkwagon!
Posted by chad_3 on September 28, 2002, at 19:07:17
In reply to CHAD 3 Re: Tardive stuff serious , posted by McPac on September 28, 2002, at 18:38:55
Hi McPac -
Will you write me at my website. I will consider writing a new website on tardive movements. I would not be surprised if all the people in recent years developing movements negligently turned out to be staggering (certainly WAY more than people generally are aware now).
Yeah - haldol is the potent classic - and mellaril has been compared to amisulpride, my first and primary offending med...
High dose haldol - if you had movements after that - yes that was it. The only drugs that cause movement disorders are DA blockers - haldol may be the largest offender over last 10 years as is so popular. High dose is insane - even low dose because you are not a candidate for such a drug ...
Write me anytime - I will maybe get a simple board up for starters - I think it might take off since a search for this stuff yeilds nothing normally.
[email protected]
http://www.socialfear.com/ps Dr. Bob - will you please leave this thread up - I think it is really important .. don't you?
------
> Wow---I never knew!
> Many years ago, I had a terribly lousy pdoc that put me on the wrong crap (this guy was later thrown in jail, NOT for me, but years later he was nailed for gross neglect of patients...he was pathetic for me too).......anyway...he had me on a HIGH-dose of Haldol for, I believe, 3 days...I stopped taking it after that.......COULD that have caused my abnormal movements that I have had after that? After that pdoc, another one had me on a low-medium dose of Mellaril for years....could that have done it? Geez.....all these years I thought it was a problem that I just developed on my own! PLEASE let me know what you think! Does Catapres work? Is it 'safe'?
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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