![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 4 to 28 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by cybercafe on July 16, 2002, at 15:20:06
In reply to Can you tell me more about Parnate? » cybercafe, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 10:46:40
> It sounds wonderful. Just what I'm looking for. It isn't known for causing hypomania is it? Wellbutrin and now Effexor have just been a disaster for me and I'm looking for something that won't send me up the wall.
Yeah it doesn't give me any hypomania and I am not happy about that :)
But I don't know why my anxiety is gone... it's just bizarre... I mean I was a real nutcase... sitting at home was bad, walking through a mall I would feel all the physical signs of anxiety....
... maybe all of the drugs i have been on the past 3 years have exerted a permanent (beneficial) effect on my brain?? ....
... it's like, when i'm around a group of people, instead of worrying about my performance, .. i am more likely to be telling them what to do (if this is hypomania it is very mild and short lived...)...the only bad thing about parnate is it gives me some agitation -- gabapentin gets rid of that pretty fast and at a low dose...
though if your problem is anxiety i hear Nardil is supposed to be better than parnate...
who knows! ... i wonder if the stimulating effects of parnate .. the pleasure in my brain is not distracting me from the people around me... so i'm too busy feeling happy to notice what they think about me? ...... i wonder if something like wellbutrin or ritalin or other stimulants might work just as well or better for me... i wonder if i have ADD or something....
oh and i just started parnate maybe 5 weeks ago, and i hear the real anti-anxiety effects kick in for some after 3 months, so i'm expecting the agitation to go away too...
.. other than that i really am having a hard time thinking of bad things to say... dietary restrictions? .. no big deal in my case
Posted by Pattisun on July 16, 2002, at 16:00:58
In reply to Re: HELP! Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin, posted by cybercafe on July 16, 2002, at 3:48:40
I feel a lot better knowing at least one other person went this route. I found a website for neurontin users and they have some useful information there too.
I would not imagine life without anxiety and have energy too? That would be too good to be true. You give me hope. :)
hugs,
Patti
>
> i did use neurontin/gabapentin to go off clonazepam ... though i found i needed a rather high dose (900 mg X 3).
>
> .. now that i'm on parnate my anxiety is much reduced (perhaps i take 1 or 2 400 mg pills a day)... it's very strange to have anxiety disappear, without feeling that kind of benzo stupor ... or even some gabapentin sedation (really not that bad)...
>
> .. i never knew it was possible to be this energetic and not have problems with anxiety
>
> cybercafe :)
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 16:17:28
In reply to Re: Can you tell me more about Parnate?, posted by cybercafe on July 16, 2002, at 15:20:06
I'm glad it works for you, cybercafe.
But you said the big word that causes me to rule out a med entirely "agitation". I can't take one more second of that. I'm going to start to rule out any "activating" meds too.
Thanks for answering. :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 23, 2002, at 8:27:45
In reply to Re: HELP! Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin » Pattisun, posted by Dinah on July 15, 2002, at 21:44:46
[Posted by Bobby on July 21, 2002, at 19:11:48]
> Hi Patti--I just wanted to say that,after years on klonopin, I just quit! I would not recommend that you stop "cold turkey" like I did but it can and has been done! I'm the proof..Bobby
Posted by cybercafe on July 24, 2002, at 21:37:35
In reply to Re: Can you tell me more about Parnate? » cybercafe, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 16:17:28
> But you said the big word that causes me to rule out a med entirely "agitation". I can't take one more second of that. I'm going to start to rule out any "activating" meds too.sorry i missed your messages guys....
agitation is one of the easiest side effects to get rid of no?
in my case the agitation seems to be in remission (without the use of a second med) ..
.. i dunno... i mean when i took parnate + gabapentin i got rid of the agitation and felt no anxiety while still feeling active and energetic...
of course i had a lot of agitation to begin with... hmm... perhaps i was foolish in taking my dose all at once?
parnate is just so awesome... it's gotten rid of my hypersonmia... and my only side effect is increased libido (i also avoid 2 or 3 foods but i am going to look into that when i visit sunnybrook)
damn that increased libido... how will i ever tolerate such a horrible side effect?
good luck Dinah... i hope you find something that works for you ... maybe you can ask around and find out if everyone feels agitation on parnate or if i am just the exception?
Posted by 2sense on August 7, 2002, at 9:55:48
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby, posted by Dr. Bob on July 23, 2002, at 8:27:45
> [Posted by Bobby on July 21, 2002, at 19:11:48]
>
> > Hi Patti--I just wanted to say that,after years on klonopin, I just quit! I would not recommend that you stop "cold turkey" like I did but it can and has been done! I'm the proof..Bobby
>
Bobby I do not know how much Klonopin (Clonazepam) you were on or for how many years, BUT I was on it for a little under two years, started at 0.25 and slowly up to 2 mg by last 10/01 then upped by a pdoc to 4 mg -- I went cold turkey, didn't sleep 2 nights (this is right before Easter 2002) and had a grand mal seizure. I had an EEG and MRI and went to 4 neurologists (one in NY top epilespy guy) -- RE for seizure cold turkey and also sleep deprivation lowers seizure level, so does caffiene and alcohol, etc. The classic example they give is a college student who crams like 3 nights, no sleep, drinks coffee or takes no-doze or something, takes finals and goes on drinking binge -- all seizure lowering scenarios -- and has grand mal. This classic example doesn't include cold turkey w/d of a benzo. I am glad you were able to cold turkey without problems, but anyone thinking of doing this should really check with their doctor. I am now being weaned by a new pdoc at 0.5 per week. It is difficult to know the side effects since there are many external stresses (I have two teenagers, a 6 year old, husband in 'struggling' start up and his mother is at the very end of breast cancer after winning that battle 25 years ... schools starting -- you get the picture. I am also 39+ so peri-menopause and its moods, etc. The point is I can't tell the chicken from the egg but benzo cold turkey are notorious for causing seizures -- I did a lot of research on it -- so I could keep my driver's license. Just my 2Sense
Posted by cybercafe on August 7, 2002, at 22:46:26
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby, posted by 2sense on August 7, 2002, at 9:55:48
>its moods, etc. The point is I can't tell the chicken from the egg but benzo cold turkey are notorious for causing seizures -- I did a lot of research on it -- so I could keep my driver's license. Just my 2Sense
i'm sorry you had to go through that 2sense
i hope the seizure didn't have any negative effects on you other than... normal post traumatic stress?
... i know when you have ECT you can stop breathing during a seizure, ... are "natural" seizures this bad? does it have any effect on mood?... you are right btw... pretty much all psychiatric textbooks note seizure risk as a withdrawal symptom -- but how high a dose is necessary for this to be likely?
... have you considered litigation? i don't know if it would be appropriate or not
i hope you are feeling better
Posted by 2sense on August 8, 2002, at 9:47:09
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby, posted by cybercafe on August 7, 2002, at 22:46:26
> >its moods, etc. The point is I can't tell the chicken from the egg but benzo cold turkey are notorious for causing seizures -- I did a lot of research on it -- so I could keep my driver's license. Just my 2Sense
>
> i'm sorry you had to go through that 2sense
>
> i hope the seizure didn't have any negative effects on you other than... normal post traumatic stress?
> ... i know when you have ECT you can stop breathing during a seizure, ... are "natural" seizures this bad? does it have any effect on mood?
>
> ... you are right btw... pretty much all psychiatric textbooks note seizure risk as a withdrawal symptom -- but how high a dose is necessary for this to be likely?
>
> ... have you considered litigation? i don't know if it would be appropriate or not
>
> i hope you are feeling better
>
>It has been very traumatic and it is only ONE of many things that have happened since God knows when part of what came of it was the MRI results put me in the probable (I had optic neuritis 3 years ago + with a clear MRI - nothing ever since to date) that I have MS.
More than one DOCTOR has told me to litigate. I have it on the list to consider not so much for the $$ but because this guy (and he continues to do so) should not be permitted to practice medicine.
Thanks for the kind words. I did 4.0 to 3.5 for a week and today I am supposed to go from 3.5 to 3.0 for a week, etc. Since I am 39+ and have the peri-menopause, and the new pdoc lowered wellbutrin I was on (helps w/ the smoking down to nothing but also have thyroid disorder and it is currently very out of whack and causes depression) I don't know what side effects of w/drawal I am having -- with so much going on with the family, etc. and all the doctors... even with just probable EVERYONE -- good neurologists here and there and everywhere say start the copaxone injections (once a day) and so that is the end of next week to go to the new doctor .... I am weary. Before moving to this state I had no problems and was never depressed and wasn't on medication and now I have had n surgeries, seemingly thousands of tests, doctors, and meds.... yes the obvious is to move -- 'twas life that simple.
Just my ...2Sense
Posted by Squiggles on August 8, 2002, at 10:03:20
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby, posted by 2sense on August 7, 2002, at 9:55:48
My sympathies for the medical misadventures;
I believe you had a seizure coming off a benzo-
this is not a mystery in many books (e.g. I
posted the Merck Manual chapter on how to detox
people off these); I am sure i had a seizure
or a stroke or both - the event was nothing like
the preceding withdrawal symptoms - it was like
a brain fire. I hate to say this, but I suspect
that nobody wanted to admit to it; the private
dr. i had to call in said i waited too late for
the EEG which she ordered to show it, but i was
too sick to do anything for a month. I know it
was something serious because i felt i was dying
and maybe i was.Suing is out of the question when you are
sick and crazy and do not have the cooperation
of the medical establishment. In my view there
should be "No Fault Insurance" so that there
isn't such a negative confrontation.I've been through other medical mistakes too -
it is not uncommon but if you were to sue for
every little slip up - you wouldn't have a life.Squiggles
Posted by 2sense on August 8, 2002, at 10:12:32
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby » 2sense, posted by Squiggles on August 8, 2002, at 10:03:20
Well I am sick but I am not crazy and now the law cold regarding the medical arena, the ADA arena, the educational arena and workplace. Where I live currently (could just be the times, so to speak) I have caught doctors, hospitals, insurance companies (all plural) in fraud, reported them and they know me by name.
I do not want anymore drugs to get off anything since I went through the "you had a seizure and so must go on Tegretol" which turned my world upside down. My hashimoto's went undiagnosed even though I had test results that were marked in bold, and said absurd the antibody level was so high ... I went to four reproductive-endo's and one endo and all just went, "dahhhh" -- there is a reason PA malpractice insurance is as high as it is. Are there good doctors, hospitals, insurance companies, etc.? Of course -- finding them can be difficult when you are sick -- again ... Just my 2sense
Posted by Squiggles on August 8, 2002, at 10:21:40
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby, posted by 2sense on August 8, 2002, at 10:12:32
I'm really sorry. It must extremely frustrating
and make you desperate; i did not mean to
offend by the remark "crazy" - i mean that one's
credibility may be compromised because of this;
I am simply suggesting that suing can add to
your woes - that the doctors themselves dread
this, and that perhaps a better alternative is
to go somewhere else and start anew. Maybe it
is just my impression that litigation could be
hell for both you and your doctor and your future
record.I hope you are in better hands now and feel
better. The world is not a perfect place -
doctors make mistakes, unfortunately.Squiggles
Posted by 2sense on August 9, 2002, at 12:48:44
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby » 2sense, posted by Squiggles on August 8, 2002, at 10:21:40
It's okay I reacted to the 'crazy' thing because I am tired of society herding people with systemic brain disorders in categories. I am not desparate now, or have been ever. I see these things more as ordering them as to their importance, and deciding the cost-benefit risk ratio sort of thing for myself and my family, and others. There are 2 doctors who should not be practicing medicine -- because I keep meticiulous records (I worked for the government for awhile, document, document, document -- much like back up, back up, back up (as in computers) and then of course those two come from the realty world of: location, location, location (:-) just some humor) -- other doctors and the insurance company itself wish me to pursue it. Whether I do or do not will be up to me and as I said the impact on those closest to me and what the end result is for others, if it doesn't have a negative impact on me, my health, or my family.
I am often called a "trouble maker" or the reason we're not all drinking tea in England. There have to be advocates who funnel their energies and research things based on their collective experiences to help those who cannot for whatever the reason.
I appreciate your input and caring enough to post back and clarify -- I am a bit sensitive, but I am in the midst of being weaned off of clonazepam which I should never have been put on in the first place --- but :-) that's why I posted in the first place.
Have a GREAT day, and if you can't have a good one.
Just my 2Sense
Posted by Squiggles on August 9, 2002, at 13:57:06
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby, posted by 2sense on August 9, 2002, at 12:48:44
How do you know you should not have
been put on clonazepam in the first place?I thought the same thing - i am not so sure
now after the painful attempt to withdraw
culminating in serious head trauma.I would confirm the choice with my doc;
i think clonazepam is different from the
milder tranq's.Squiggles
Posted by 2sense on August 9, 2002, at 14:21:38
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby » 2sense, posted by Squiggles on August 9, 2002, at 13:57:06
It is a very ugly story of medical mismanagement. The pdoc's nurse saw me for 5 years and he signed scripts. She originally started me at 0.25 for insomnia and then after 6 mos. upped it to 0.5 and then this happened twice more. I didn't know that it was an anticonvulsant, or even in the benzi group -- I usually keep on top of these things but I have had several surgeries and a lot health wise and other wise have gone on also (many miscarriages, etc.) -- The nurse left in October of 2001 and the head pdoc (not her boss) and decided I was bi polar (and I have been to N pdoc for anorexia, and because I became depressed being in a 10 year long physically abusive marriage I couldn't get out of (I did and remarried, etc.) -- so he doubled it had a stroke the next day and in enters the original pdoc who treats me over the phone since Dec of 2001 (at which point I was in and out of ER's having been hemorraghing (?sp) and in Jan 2002 had a TAH -- but at Xmas many tests and a D&C -- this doc wouldn't take me off of it -- the scruinity by my own point of service doctor and the gyno's brought the clonazepam to light (why I was originally put on it, why I was on the dose I was on, etc.) The pdoc refused to take me off of it -- said okay no bipolar but mood instability -- my husband stepped in and said I live with her and her moods are worse since the doseage has been upped -- the pdoc knew the script ran out said he'd fill it didn't in time I went 2 days w/o sleep and one week w/o the meds (clonazepam) both big time seizure lowering things along with increase caffiene (not sleeping, 3 children all had the flu including hubby but me -- and then family were coming in from Princeton for Easter -- I had the grand mal on Good Friday -- the ambulance was carting me off as the family pulled in the driveway.
My own doc got aggressively involved -- as did several neurologists along with the gyno and a new pdoc -- the new one feels that unchecked that the old pdoc being as careless as he had been over the years and more recently --- the mix of drugs I was on (I have Hashimoto's and take synthroid and ADHD and take Ritalin -- all docs knew this but the clonazepam cold turkey was deemed by all but the prescribing pdoc as the reason for the grand mal. I got to keep my driver's license.
Hope this clarifies it -- do a search on Klonopin Withdrawal with MSN or Google and hear some real horror stories. I even contacted a pdoc on line who posts answers to FAQ about drugs and asked why he didn't put in under klonopin/clonazepam that abrupt withdrawal of N mgs. over N mos. (I was on it a total of nearly 2 years but the 4 mgs. for 5 months) -- can cause grand mal seizures. I still have the guy's email: answer -- "I don't want to frightened people reading the answers."
Just my 2Sense
Posted by Squiggles on August 9, 2002, at 14:45:20
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby, posted by 2sense on August 9, 2002, at 14:21:38
I'm very sorry your life was messed so much
by medical mistakes and bad decisions.
You must be happy that your husband assisted
in describing your case.There a couple things i would like to ask you
and if it is too painful for you i understand
that you would rather not:In my experience it is going OFF K that
produced the "seizure" (remember it was never
dx'd as such by my docs ... only withdrawal),
and not by GOING ON - going back ON is what
brought me to stability again. Though i confess
i do not know what would have happened had i
not been reistated ( died i think).Also, i would like to ask you what you
mean by "grand mal" in your particular case
when you were carted off in the ambulance -
how did they stop it and did they dx it as
a "grand mal".Because what i felt is something that i think
is specific to clonazepam withdrawal but more
like a stroke or encephalic embolism.Squiggles
Posted by 2sense on August 10, 2002, at 8:45:38
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby » 2sense, posted by Squiggles on August 9, 2002, at 14:45:20
I had the grand mal seizure GOING OFF THE KLONOPIN/CLONAZEPAM * COLD TURKEY *, along with sleep deprivation, and increased caffeine -- 4 neurologists (and the DMV) decided it was due ONLY to the cold turkey (GOING OFF OF the Clonazepm (generic version of KLONOPIN). I went right back on and am being weaned. I have read of being weaned .025 per week -- I am being weaned at 0.5 (I just started 3.0 mg this past Thursday -- I started at 4.0g mg). Since I have not had any dramatic side effects just ones that could be attributed to many things, I suppose I count myself lucky.
It was being on the 4 mg. for 5 months and then not having it to take, that is the cold turkey, and it produced the grand mal seizure. It you do a search on grand mal (I lost consciousness for about 1 1/2 -- I do not remember ANYTHING). Before that I was lying on the bed, reading, thinking I might nap before the family came in (it was around 5:45 PM on Good Friday they were expected around 7 PM). When I woke I was on the ground next to our bed my husband was holding me and there were paramedics and police officers in my room -- and my husband was asking me questions like, "What is your name?, Who am I? Where are you? Who is the president? What day and month and year is it?" I found all the questions really annoying and was greatly annoyed, having thought I fell asleep and fell off the bed and hit my head (I had a small gash on the side of my face when I fell off the bed and the night stand drawer was open and I hit the sharp corner of the drawer) -- I thought everyone was over reacting. I remember asking my 12 (she was 13 on Easter) year old daughter to see if we had any lozengers since my throat hurt (the family had had the flu -- ask they seem to every year in dominoes, one gets it and then two days later another and so on -- they went on to all get strep at the end of each of their flu runs -- I never get the flu or strep I have "mother's immunity" :-). Anyway my daughter went downstairs to look for them, found none, and came back up and was standing in the doorway when she described the following: Mom sat up, sang (this is a 'loud' cry from the lung having to do with the seizure) she said I stood up (which doesn't jive with the injuries, minor as they were) later she said I was on the bed just sitting up really straight -- my fists were clenched -- I was look straight at her but could answer no questions then fell off the bed (by this time -- this happened very fast and I may be getting some of the things wrong but everyone classified as a grand mal seizure) my husband told my daughter to get our 6 year old to the backyard and distract and redirect her, told our 15 year old son to call 911 and he took over holding me while I clenches and shook -- or whatever the two things that go on -- the foaming at the mouth happened -- this is bile from the lungs -- a seizure of this kind is very intense for the body they think I went from partial (maybe they say it started partial and then converted to a grand mal) -- I didn't lose control of my bowels, etc. which does happen -- basically there is an electrical storm in your brain and your body is controlled by your brain and reflects (crudely I am writing this going to an epilepsy site and reading the description of a grand mal (forget the partial) and subtract the lose of bladder and/or bowel control and that is what happened. When I woke I couldn't answer my husband's questions, and the paramedics took over and by the time I was on the stretcher with the neck thing on and they were carting me down the INSIDE stairs I was calling up to my husband, who was behind them who I was, who he was, where we lived, the day, the date, the time and as the paramedics were carting me on the stretcher down the OUTSIDE steps is when the family pulled in the driveway and this is when I was calling to my husband who the president was and going back as far as I could until the ambulance doors shut -- the paramedics could tell it was a serious seizure since I was conscious, very minor injuries (not even really a headache) my vitals were okay (my electrolytes where off but that had to do with the hysterectomy I had (kept my ovaries so no instant menopause with two teens and a husband turning 43 at work at a fledging startup plus a precocious 6 1/2 year old didn't need it. To add to the mix I have tachycardia and had a heart procedure done after an episode (not dangerous if aborted and I have had the episodes heart races up to 250) -- I had severe anemia from the previous year of hemorrhaging before the hysterectomy. You can see that a lot was and had been going on and I trusted this doctor to at least renew the script since I had called him 3-4 times. I hope that answers some of your questions. I will try to answer anything else that does not make sense. I have not been up long, we had company, and am still nursing my first cup of coffee. There are generically (I do and did a lot of research about seizures and have a friend who is a true epileptic due to massive head trauma -- so I had her NY epilepsy neurologist look at all reports (MRI, EEG, C-scan, and everything else; along with 3 other neurologists).
The Mayo Clinic’s definition of a grand mal seizure is: A grand mal seizure is a common type of seizure, characterized by loss of consciousness, falling down, loss of bowel or bladder control, and rhythmic convulsions. Seizures result from an abnormal synchronized electrical discharge in the brain. Other types of seizures include petit mal seizure and temporal lobe seizure. The causes of seizures can vary. Many times the cause is unknown. Sometimes seizures run in families. Repeated brain seizures characterize a seizure disorder known as epilepsy. Statistically it has been shown, that 10 percent of the ENTIRE population will experience a single seizure episode during their lifetime. Approximately 2 million Americans have epilepsy. The previous paragraph came straight from this site: http://www.mayoclinic.com/findinformation/diseasesandconditions/invoke.cfm?id=DS00222&;
The doctors termed my grand mal as a PROVOKED versus a non-PROVOKED. Mine was provoked due to the cold turkey of the benzo: Clonazepam given the length of time I was collectively on it, the length of time I was on 4 mg (which is considered a high dose) – w/drawl from many drugs and/or long term use of alcohol can cause seizures. 10% of the entire population will have a seizure in their lifetime (I am fortunate to know as much as one can, why I had one) most people will never know. Many people go on to have more and then are classified as having seizure disorder or Epilepsy (there is NO difference between the two) – having one means instead of 1/10 statistically once having a seizure one goes into the 1/5. They do not believe, unless I recreate the circumstances that I will have a seizure. It was very scary for my daughter and all the medical diagnosing, etc. and I was put on another non-benzo (Tegretol/generic: Carbamapezine) for a time which caused havoc on my thyroid (it depresses the test results when in reality with Hashimoto’s disease causes hypothyroidism (one of the major side effects of that is depression) so I was weaned off of that – it was never needed in the first place – the first neurologist spent 10 minutes and his findings where at best 5% correct when weighed against the other 3 neurologists, my internist, etc. I suppose all one can ever do is ask questions and read, read, and research and ask more questions.
Best of luck – let me know what happened with you if your are comfortable.
Again, Just my 2sense
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 8:54:02
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby, posted by 2sense on August 10, 2002, at 8:45:38
Poor thing. Yeah , i think i had partial only.
I'm glad you are being reistated and weined
slowly, but I really think you are dropping
too fast especially after a "grand mal" - just
my opinion that you should take even 3 years
if you can to get off IF you should get off
at all.Squiggles
Posted by 2sense on August 10, 2002, at 12:15:06
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « Bobby » 2sense, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 8:54:02
I agree about being dropped too quickly. I have heard people on like 1.5 taking 6 months. This new pdoc is a very strong woman and so am I -- but she has the power, so to speak -- I am going to do 3.25 versus 3.0 and do the 0.25. My thyroid was and still is really screwed up and extreme stress (physical and/or emotional) causes the Hashimoto’s antibodies to reactivate and attack the thyroid producing a state of hypothyroidism. One of the many symptoms is depression. I am depressed, not horribly, but not myself. I was on Wellbutrin SR 300 mg. (which is also a seizure lower-er) and know the new pdoc dropped that to 200 mgs. A day and my mood is a fairly good one – but given everything that has gone on and is going on internally in the family and externally to the family the diagnosis of Post Traumatic Stress that is on-going (I was in an abusive marriage for 10 years, was a whistle blower at a nuclear facility there went my career, 3 children with disabilities and a school district who is as bad as the medical system, a husband whose mother is hospice and will die within the next 6 months, his company is going down the tubes, he needs to be treated for depression and is seeing someone the end of the month, he is also a fight or flighter but we are seeing someone and I think it is helping. Add to all of that in the present tense (school is just days away as is my hubby’s 43rd b-day) the older two 13 and 15 almost 16 have the hormones and are being cold turkeyed from a cigarette habit they picked up during the summer. So is the depression due to dealing with all of that (I am the point person for everyone, when Nancy Regan was doing the, “Just say no” campaign, my co-workers were pinning buttons on me. So is external stresses or is the depression due to the Klonopin w/d, potential cognitive side effects of the probable but not definite MS (though the neurologist and this new pdoc do not think so), peri-menopause (I will be 40 in November, and didn't go through surgical menopause so I still have "periods" all that goes with them (i.e., bloating, moodiness, etc. and I get that mid-month too).
WHO KNOWS -- I am functional but I'd rather be walking on a beach for 10 miles a day and reading good books, doing crossword puzzles, sleeping, eating right, etc. for say 6 months. Too bad there isn't a big HOLD button I could push, but there isn't so I push on and up and forward for what else is there to do :-) right?!?Thanks for your concern and posts I appreciate them.
2Sense (Sue)
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 15, 2002, at 16:20:24
In reply to Re: HELP! Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin » Pattisun, posted by Dinah on July 15, 2002, at 21:44:46
[Posted by mike256 on August 15, 2002, at 14:34:58]
> I was on Valium for 6 years then Klonopin for 4. I did not think I would be able to get off it but I did. I weaned myself off over 3 months, check with your doc for instructions. I am so glad I got off it, I dont necessarily feel better and I have some anxiety issues but knowing that I'm not addicted to it makes me feel good
>
> Good luck it isnt as bad as I thought it was. I havent heard of the med you are taking to help
Posted by 2sense on August 16, 2002, at 7:16:45
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « mike256, posted by Dr. Bob on August 15, 2002, at 16:20:24
Well I am not taking any meds to counter the side effects. The new pdoc only lowered the Wellbutrin SR from 300 to 200 and I just started at 2.5 (going down per her instructions 0.5/wk). She wants to put me on an SSRI after I am off but all of them have bunches of side effects for me plus the sexual dysfunction isn't one I am willing to live with. The Wellbutrin at 300 SR/day usually keep things in check as long as my thyroid was also in check (I have Hashimoto's) but it currently isn't and my other doctor is working on that but that takes 6 week shots to see if a dose is working or not -- I'll find out if the current dose is working -- but I know it isn't not because of the depression (which isn't crippling but very difficult as I am a mother of 3 -- 2 teens going cold turkey off cigarettes and a small one (6) -- husband at start up with its own set of problems and he (the hubby) has depression problems -- I am also w/d from 4 mg of Klonopin -- down to 2.5 as of last night -- but the lowering of the WB coupled with the thyroid upset ... well this new doc is do it my way or forget it -- and the old doc was do it my way or nothing ... there has to be a compromise somewhere. Thanks for the info.
2sense
Posted by Pattisun on August 16, 2002, at 9:59:15
In reply to Re: Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin « mike256, posted by Dr. Bob on August 15, 2002, at 16:20:24
Just want to says THANKS for your encouragement. I decided not to take the Neurontin, I am scared of the edema and other nasty side effects. Last year I took Vioxx and got swollen ankles--eventually ended up with congestive heart failure. Way scary stuff!!
So, I'm doing a very SLOW taper off the Klonopin. So far so good, but I've got a long way to go.
I wanted to know were you taking Klonopin for panic attacks? I get them all the time, but they are well controlled with Klonopin. I'm afraid the long-term benzo use has really dulled my cognitive functioning. I know I am in for a real battle of wills with my body. It would be easier if I were not so depressed. I've been trying to get off Paxil for over a year and am down to 5/2.5/5 dose. I would rather do the Paxil withdrawal first but my psych doctor is so anti-benzo he won't help me off the Paxil until I get off the Klonopin.
Thanks for the info.
Patti
Posted by Squiggles on August 16, 2002, at 10:34:35
In reply to Re: HELP! Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin » Pattisun, posted by Dinah on July 15, 2002, at 21:44:46
Sorry to but in, but this interests me
personally, because i got so sick trying
to get off Klonopin:I would very much like to know if your dr.
gave a reason for getting of K after 7 years
and what the "reduction schedule" is;Squiggles
Posted by Pattisun on August 16, 2002, at 15:18:01
In reply to Re: HELP! Given Neuronton to get off Klonopin » Dinah, posted by Squiggles on August 16, 2002, at 10:34:35
Hey Dinah, I know what you mean. My new psychiatrist has diagnosed me with "DSM-IV Criteria for Major Clinical Depression." Okay, I know from other patients that he oversees many clinical trials for some of the pharmaceutical companies (we test a lot here in San Diego), so I do believe he may have some definite medication biases. But, let's say he really does know what he is talking about:
1. Benzo use over time can cause sleep problems (which I have, but I also was recently diagnosed with Fibromyalgia which is associated with sleep disorders)
2. Benzo use over time can cause cognitive impairment (again, Fibromyalgia can cause a lot of "brain fog" too)
3. He CLAIMS: Benzos will interfere with the effectiveness of anti-depressants. Therefore, using his logic I need to get off the benzos first before he can effectively treat my depression, and he is claiming my insomnia and cognitive impairement will improve once I am off the Klonopin.
I am having such a hard time I am willing to give him a try and see if he can help me.
Here's the taper schedule (go at your own speed):
wk 1-2: am .5 pm .25 nite .5
wk 3-4: am .25 pm .25 nite .5
wk 5-6: am .25 pm .25 nite .25
wk 7-8: am .25 pm 0 nite .25
wk9-10: am .125 pm 0 nite .125
wk 11-12: am .125 pm 0 nite 0And, don't be sorry to butt in! I'm happy to discuss this. :)
Patti
> Sorry to but in, but this interests me
> personally, because i got so sick trying
> to get off Klonopin:
>
> I would very much like to know if your dr.
> gave a reason for getting of K after 7 years
> and what the "reduction schedule" is;
>
>
>
> Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on August 16, 2002, at 15:31:34
In reply to Re: Why off Klonopin??+taper schedule Squiggles, posted by Pattisun on August 16, 2002, at 15:18:01
It has been said over and over again that
each person reacts differently to benzo
withdrawal - so i am not going to give
you any horror stories about the rate -
i *would* be interested to hear how you
are going according to your dr's instructions -
after all, i may have just had a heat stroke
last summer and confused it with withdrawal;Squiggles
Posted by Cindylou on August 30, 2002, at 13:22:21
In reply to Re: Why off Klonopin??+taper schedule Squiggles » Pattisun, posted by Squiggles on August 16, 2002, at 15:31:34
Has anyone ever heard of this? I have been taking Klonapin for anxiety, and I had to increase the dose when I started Geodon, due to increased agitation. But the Klonapin just makes me sleepy and foggy-headed. So my pdoc is having me try Librium. I haven't heard much about this one. He says it's an "old" drug ... I've tried many ante-anxiety type drugs and they all make me very sedated, but he said the Librium shouldn't do that.
Anyone have experiences or knowledge on Librium?
Thanks in adavance!
Cindy
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