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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JonW on May 18, 2002, at 20:35:18
Hi,
What's the real difference between exogenous and endogenous depression? I have a nice mix of social phobia, bipolar, and depression -- would this be considered exogenous or endogenous? My guess is it's not a black and white issue. I just stopped luvox in prep for starting nardil, and right now I'm very depressed and suicidal. Can you get this depressed and it be exogenous -- is it a matter of degree or origin? I guess I just want reassurance that once I start nardil life will get better. I guess that's all any of us want, reassurance that it will get better. Any opinions?
Jon
Posted by IsoM on May 18, 2002, at 21:18:59
In reply to EXogenous and ENdogenous -- explanation?, posted by JonW on May 18, 2002, at 20:35:18
Opinion only, Jon, but from science sources -
Exogenous means it comes from outside sources. An example would be someone who was fine till they lost their wife they loved dearly. Their grief didn't resolve or heal over time but worsened into long lasting depression. Or it may be a depression that happens as a result of an illness like Lyme's disease.
Endogenous means it's something that's internal -a 'chemical inbalance' or inherited disorder like BP. Something like stress or another factor may set off the disorder (or depression) but the tendency for it to surface is there & likely to be triggered in normal life.
What you have, I couldn't hazard a guess, Jon. I'd have to know you personally & your background & family. But I *CAN* assure you that you that the probability of feeling better on Nardil is very, very good. It's still one of the most effective ADs there are. Just about everyone who's used it says it works good.
The time I stopped Luvox I went downhill quickly & hard. Felt murderous almost & adding Manerix made me worse. Stopping an AD leaves most of us very miserable till something else is added. Hang on.
Posted by JonW on May 19, 2002, at 13:42:28
In reply to Re: EXogenous and ENdogenous -- explanation? » JonW, posted by IsoM on May 18, 2002, at 21:18:59
I suspect my problems are mostly endogenous because it's chronic and runs in my family. I've been this way from day one. Thanks for the info and your support, IsoM.
Jon
Posted by polarbear206 on May 19, 2002, at 16:08:51
In reply to Re: EXogenous and ENdogenous -- explanation? » IsoM, posted by JonW on May 19, 2002, at 13:42:28
Posted by JonW on May 19, 2002, at 20:45:21
In reply to Hang in there John!! Better days are ahead!!! (nm), posted by polarbear206 on May 19, 2002, at 16:08:51
Posted by manowar on May 21, 2002, at 16:19:06
In reply to EXogenous and ENdogenous -- explanation?, posted by JonW on May 18, 2002, at 20:35:18
en·dog·e·nous - adjective
1. without external cause: with no apparent external cause • endogenous depression
ex·og·e·nous - adjective
from an outside organism: originating outside an organism or system.
So yes, IsoM is absolutely correct (as normal).
When I'm depressed, someone could hand me a check for a million dollars, and my mood would not really improve that much, if at all. That's endogenous depression and it bites.
Tim
Posted by JonW on May 22, 2002, at 3:20:16
In reply to Re: EXogenous and ENdogenous -- explanation?, posted by manowar on May 21, 2002, at 16:19:06
Is atypical depression exogenous or endogenous? Or am I comparing apples to oranges?
If it's exogenous then I'm a little confused. I can be "cheered up" temporarily and have had most other symptoms of atypical depression my entire life without any apparent cause. I also have bipolar disorder and this I take to be endogenous depression. Is it a contradiction then to have both endogenous and exogenous depression? Or can atypical depression be either reactive or endogenous depression?
Assuming I'm not comparing apples to oranges... There are people who I can fit neatly into the exogenous category (recent death of a loved one, etc.), but it's hard to understand my life long atypical depression without any apparent cause fitting so neatly into this category. I could say that bipolar disorder and atypical depression appear to be correlated, but unfortunately, correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation. If depression is caused in part by our biology and our environment, isn't all depression exogenous? IsoM explained that with endogenous depression "...the tendency for it to surface is there & likely to be triggered in normal life." Well if someone has a major depressive episode after the death of a loved one, how is the dystinction made between endogenous depression that has been triggered and reactive depression?
In any event, I guess we're all just a bunch of wires and electricity and lots of funny little chemicals. I'm just trying to understand why the terms exogenous and endogenous depression exist? What purpose do they serve? Do I not understand them? It's possible this post makes no sense as my doc has me all drugged up to help me get through these 2 weeks (1 left) prior to starting Nardil and I forgot to take my regular meds today. It escapes me how I went an entire day before realizing it?! Anyhow, I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on this -- the ex/endogenous thing, not my sanity! I understand that one completely ;) And so I've answered the question about my sanity, just in case you were on the fence!
woohoo!,
Jon
> en·dog·e·nous - adjective
>
> 1. without external cause: with no apparent external cause • endogenous depression
>
> ex·og·e·nous - adjective
>
> from an outside organism: originating outside an organism or system.
>
> So yes, IsoM is absolutely correct (as normal).
> When I'm depressed, someone could hand me a check for a million dollars, and my mood would not really improve that much, if at all. That's endogenous depression and it bites.
> Tim
Posted by IsoM on May 22, 2002, at 21:11:48
In reply to Contradiction? Re: EXogenous and ENdogenous, posted by JonW on May 22, 2002, at 3:20:16
> > "IsoM explained that with endogenous depression "...the tendency for it to surface is there & likely to be triggered in normal life." Well if someone has a major depressive episode after the death of a loved one, how is the dystinction made between endogenous depression that has been triggered and reactive depression?"
Woohoo to you too! (a quote I remember from an old favourite Donald Duck comic)
After you lose someone you love in death, it's perfectly normal to be deeply depressed. But in a normal individual, they will go through the grieving process, the different stages of grief, & while they will always miss their loved one, they will go on with life, laughing & doing things again. With someone who doesn't slowly heal, but only falls further & further into a black hole, that person could have developed depression. It *could* be said that their depression is exogenous as it was an outside influence (the death of someone) that triggered it.
But what decides one person healing & moving on, & another developing ongoing depression? No one knows why yet. Perhaps some people are more susceptible to depression than others. Not enough is known to say. Even the terms exogenous & endogenous isn't really agreed on & came about like many of the other terms used in psychiatry that don't seem that clear-cut. More for the convenience of psychiatrists than for the patients.
It reminds me of the debate over 'nuture or nature'. That great agrument has died down a lot with many sociologists & scientists realising that the borders between the two aren't easily decided & that both play major roles in the development of a person.
I'd say (my opinion only) that atypical depression can be either exogenous, endogenous, or a combination of both. Understandable? Not really, but psychiatry is still in its infancy.
This is the end of the thread.
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