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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sid on May 15, 2002, at 23:13:10
Or am I just getting old?
My hair is short and usually thick. Since starting Effexor XR however, I notice it's not as think. I don't lose my hair anymore than usual however (I'd see it on my pillow and in the shower), but it does seem thinner. I see my scalp in places where I used not to see it at all. Anyone with that problem? It's a minor problem, but as a woman in her thirties, I'd rather have thick hair for a while longer !- sid
Posted by IsoM on May 16, 2002, at 3:28:05
In reply to Hair thinning as a side effect?, posted by sid on May 15, 2002, at 23:13:10
Alopecia (hair loss) is definitely a problem with some ADs, sid. Is your hair just not as numerous as before, or is the actual hair diameter smaller too? I'm not sure how to combat it but I'd increase my protein intake some & take extra Stress formula B complex vitamins. Hair loss is also a common first sign of hypothyroidism. Have you had your TSH levels checked? It commonly develops in women in their 30s & 40s.
Posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 8:40:34
In reply to Re: Hair thinning as a side effect? » sid, posted by IsoM on May 16, 2002, at 3:28:05
Thanks IsoM for the info.
Yes, I have my thyroid functions checked every year because my Mom had that problem (haD = now her thyroid is gone!), and since I have depression, it's always a question - is it really depression or is it hormonal?
I don't think I lose my hair because I don't find any anywhere. It seems like it's the diameter of it that's smaller. I now see my scalp above my forehead and it never happened before. In any case, I'll talk to my doc about it.
About proteins: I really don't eat enough. I saw a dietician last week for weight loss, and the first thing that's wrong in my diet is that I don't eat enough protein. So now I'm on tofu shakes for b-fast. Especially since I'm getting braces soon, better get used to a soft or even liquid diet! She also said to add water (2 liters per day!!! I am not sure I can manage that without actually living in the bathroom!). I'll look into the B complex vitamins too... although it did give me headaches before. But I was not on an AD then, so it may be different this time. Thanks again for the info.
I also have very dark circles around my eyes, which I never had before. But that's easily dealt with a little makeup. The hair is more tricky! I feel like Effexor XR is good in many ways, but in some ways, it's wearing me out.
- sid
Posted by krazy kat on May 16, 2002, at 10:37:47
In reply to Hair thinning as a side effect?, posted by sid on May 15, 2002, at 23:13:10
sid:
I don't know if this helps, but I've experience hair thinning from Depakote, which is also with that med. It's minor for me, and I had the thinkest hair in the world prior to taking it, so it's not that noticable. But if it were, I'd be upset as well.
It is recommended that one take Zinc and selenium to offset this. Most multi-vits don't have enough of either. I think that has helped me a little.
Also, there have been studies about taking a lot of Zinc to counteract a lot of things. I have no idea if this is another "supplement of the month" push or if it's even safe to overload on Zinc. Just something to throw out. Taking a huge amount of Zince for a month got rid of my husband's wart. Go figure.
- kk
Posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 11:30:57
In reply to Zinc and selenium » sid, posted by krazy kat on May 16, 2002, at 10:37:47
Thanks, kk, I'll look into that as well.
- sid
Posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 12:10:07
In reply to Re: Hair thinning as a side effect? » IsoM, posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 8:40:34
Individual hairs often become thinner before being lost altogether. ie balding men will get baby fuzz type hair. Any hormonal reason can do that. You could compare the ends of the hair to the roots and see which look thinner. Normally the end would be thinner.
Weight loss, black circles around the eyes, time to get a full on hormonal profile. I know Addison's can do that, but you would probably also look tanned. Anyhow I'm not a doc so see one!
kate
Posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 18:40:03
In reply to Re: Hair thinning as a side effect?, posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 12:10:07
It's actually weight GAIN, black circles around the eyes and hair thinning.
No wonder I don't have a boyfriend, I look like hell!lololololol
Posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 18:43:01
In reply to Re: Hair thinning as a side effect?, posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 12:10:07
Posted by IsoM on May 16, 2002, at 20:13:31
In reply to What's Addison's ? (nm) » katekite, posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 18:43:01
Yes, sid, you can overdo the zinc & selenium both, so a small amount in a supplement is much better than a large amount. In fact, a little zinc is good for good immune function but too much has the opposite effect. I prefer my B vitamins in food form - lots of wheat germ & good old nutritional yeast flakes stirred into juice. So if the B complex tablets do give you headaches, try them as food instead. When I've recommended to friends to give their cats yeast flakes on their food, they come back later to tell me how thick & luxuriant their pet's fur has become.
Taking extra protein in the form of soy (tofu) is good but be aware that large amounts of soy can slow thyroid function down. It's not nearly as bad as many would like people to think, but certain plants have that effect on the thyroid gland, such as too much vegetables in the cabbage family (brocolli, cauliflower, Brussel sprouts, etc) & soy. If your thyroid is normal now, the tofu *may* lower it enough to have a negative effect on you.
Addison's disease is a insufficiency of the adrenal gland resulting in a host of health problems. Here's a link with a quick but good breakdown of the symptoms & causes:
http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health/endo/pubs/addison/addison.htmThinning hair (diameter) as you mentioned if not corrected slowly through a better diet is most often hormonal. I sure hope an improved diet works to make you feel better overall.
Posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 20:30:21
In reply to Addison's and Too Much Zinc » sid, posted by IsoM on May 16, 2002, at 20:13:31
Thank you! You are such a bundle of information!
Posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 21:03:13
In reply to Re: Addison's and Too Much Zinc » IsoM, posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 20:30:21
I should know better than to mention a particular disease. I know way too little about way too much.
Vitamins sound like a good idea.
kate
Posted by terra miller on May 16, 2002, at 22:22:31
In reply to Hair thinning as a side effect?, posted by sid on May 15, 2002, at 23:13:10
hi. i'm 35, and it's a drag. i've just kind of resolved to dealing with it because, even though i've been told it's probably stress that caused it to happen, i think it's the wellbutrin. for me, it's all the same over my head.. just more and more scalp showing. i've tried the vitamin thing and stuff. i still have more scalp showing. so i cut my hair in layers. it helps a little.
terra
Posted by Ron Hill on May 17, 2002, at 2:34:34
In reply to Addison's and Too Much Zinc » sid, posted by IsoM on May 16, 2002, at 20:13:31
IsoM,
May I ask you a couple of vitamin questions? First, a little background.
I'm in the process of tracking down the substance (or substances) that was causing me to become extremely irritable and flash into episodes of rage (not very becoming). I felt sure that the periodic (but all too regular) foul mood was caused by one or more of the vitamins and/or supplements that I was taking. Therefore, I initially attempted to identify the offending substance(s) by removing a vitamin or supplement one-by-one from my daily dose matrix.
However, that process was taking too long. And I was not willing to continue to subject my wife to my rage. Therefore, five days ago, I pulled the plug and stopped all vitamins and supplements (including SAM-e). I continued taking my medication (600 mg/day Lithobid).
A day or so after I quit taking the vitamins and supplements I cycled into a very deep dark depression. No rage, but lots of depression. I think it was the discontinuation of the 200 mg/day of SAM-e that contributed most to the depression. I came out of the depression today.
My plan now is to slowly (and methodically) add an appropriate amount of vitamins and supplements. Okay, here are my questions:
1. In your previous post you said;
>So if the B complex tablets do give you headaches, try them as food instead.
Have you ever read or heard that supplementing with B complex can cause irritability? Can you elaborate on the "headaches"?
2. I went to the health food store and bought some expensive liquid multiple-vitamins and the sister product (but no less expensive) liquid multiple-minerals. Please note that neither of these products contains iron. I really wonder (for reasons I will not take time to explain) if iron supplementation was not part of my irritable mood problem. IsoM, what is your opinion of these liquid products verses the less expensive tablet forms. For comparative purposes, assume that the chelating agents, %RDA, and etc are similar in both the liquid and tablet.
-- Ron
PS I trust you have your medication by now. Is it working ok for you?
Posted by IsoM on May 17, 2002, at 3:35:30
In reply to IsoM, may I ask you some vitamin questions? » IsoM, posted by Ron Hill on May 17, 2002, at 2:34:34
So am I the resident nutritionist here? Wonder if Dr. Bob will let me hang out a little plaque with "IsoM - Ask the Nutritionist". ;-)
My comment about B complex supplements causing headaches was in reference to sid & the headaches she had while taking some before. No, I've never really heard them causing headaches but it's possible. It's also more likely that some binder or additive in the pills would cause an allerigc-reaction headache in a person instead.
As for iron causing headaches, I honestly don't know. I do know anemia can cause headaches & I do know that in some people who suffer from chronic headaches and/or migraines, a certain region of the brain has a much higher iron concentration than normal people. Does that mean that iron is causing their headaches, or does it mean that their physiology is just different & deposits more iron there? Not enough known yet, but if you feel that iron does it, I'd cut it out. Few men need extra iron in their diet. Also most supplemental iron is sold as ferrous sulphate, a poorly absorbed form of iron.
Supplements in liquid form vs tablet form (all other points being equal) is of value only for those whose absorption is dismal. Otherwise, it's just added water you're paying for. It's easy enough to judge whether a tablet will dissolve for you. Drop it in a cup of water & see whether it falls apart or dissolves in the water fairly quickly (within 5 minutes or less). If it does, it'll be absorbed as well as the liquid form. It's only in some people with very poor digestion that the coating and/or binder will not come apart in the stomach, allowing for proper absorption.
Posted by medlib on May 17, 2002, at 9:47:53
In reply to Hair thinning as a side effect?, posted by sid on May 15, 2002, at 23:13:10
Hi Sid--
Hair loss/thinning is a known side effect of some med combinations, too. Wellbutrin + Prozac has good synergistic effects for some, but more than a few experience significant hair loss with it--I did. Sometimes, I think that "You can't win for losing" is the title of my life story. To the degree that a med helps, to that same degree it has difficult-to-tolerate side effects; and, if it *really* helps, SEs make continuing it impossible!
Well wishes---medlib
Posted by Ron Hill on May 17, 2002, at 14:48:58
In reply to IsoM, may I ask you some vitamin questions? » IsoM, posted by Ron Hill on May 17, 2002, at 2:34:34
Posted by IsoM on May 17, 2002, at 15:22:43
In reply to Thank you IsoM. (PS: Don't you sleep at night?) (nm) » Ron Hill, posted by Ron Hill on May 17, 2002, at 14:48:58
I'm on the west coast - Pacific time & my son had been programming on the computer all day. I'd finally got it late before bedtime, last night. I think my adrafinil is starting to work - not quite as sleepy as normal. Hurrah!
Posted by Emme on May 17, 2002, at 15:44:16
In reply to Addison's and Too Much Zinc » sid, posted by IsoM on May 16, 2002, at 20:13:31
Thanks IsoM for all the info. Do you happen to know what good daily amounts are for Zn and Se? I've also never been entirely sure what optimal amounts of B vitamins are - though I will try your suggestion of eating more wheat germ and nutritional yeast.
I had terribly thin hair genetically prior to taking medicine. I've asked doctors about it and have been tested for many possible causes. All negative. I'm just a normal specimen with classic female thin hair (I hate it!) Anyway, I'm lucky that the drugs don't seem to have made the problem worse...yet. But I'm always keeping my eyes open for things that might help, especially if some medication does cause problems.
And yes...I guess your title here could be "board nutritional consultant". :)
Emme
> Yes, sid, you can overdo the zinc & selenium both, so a small amount in a supplement is much better than a large amount. In fact, a little zinc is good for good immune function but too much has the opposite effect. I prefer my B vitamins in food form - lots of wheat germ & good old nutritional yeast flakes stirred into juice. So if the B complex tablets do give you headaches, try them as food instead. When I've recommended to friends to give their cats yeast flakes on their food, they come back later to tell me how thick & luxuriant their pet's fur has become.
>
> Taking extra protein in the form of soy (tofu) is good but be aware that large amounts of soy can slow thyroid function down. It's not nearly as bad as many would like people to think, but certain plants have that effect on the thyroid gland, such as too much vegetables in the cabbage family (brocolli, cauliflower, Brussel sprouts, etc) & soy. If your thyroid is normal now, the tofu *may* lower it enough to have a negative effect on you.
>
> Addison's disease is a insufficiency of the adrenal gland resulting in a host of health problems. Here's a link with a quick but good breakdown of the symptoms & causes:
> http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health/endo/pubs/addison/addison.htm
>
> Thinning hair (diameter) as you mentioned if not corrected slowly through a better diet is most often hormonal. I sure hope an improved diet works to make you feel better overall.
Posted by IsoM on May 18, 2002, at 2:08:42
In reply to Re: Addison's and Too Much Zinc » IsoM, posted by Emme on May 17, 2002, at 15:44:16
Oooo! I like that title - "board nutritional consultant"!
I think (& many others do too) that the RDAs of vitamins & minerals that were developed years ago are too low for many nutrients, especially in our times now. But that doesn't mean lots more is good either. About 200 mcg selenium & 25-30 mg zinc is probably about right. Don't forget that if your diet is good with lots of unrefined foods, fruits, & vegetables (especially home or organically grown), you won't need to add that full amount as a supplement.
I have gentically thin, fine hair too - it's never been real thick. But it is very healthy hair! Soft, shiny, & silky - too much so; impossible to style without adding hair gel. I cut my own hair but the few times I've gone to hairdressers, they've commented on how strong & healthy my hair is & were envious. I just told them they should try styling it everyday like me. That's why I keep it short now. So thin hair isn't always indicative of poor health or diet. My hair hasn't thinned any over the years & despite being 52, I have little grey in it.
As for the amount of B vitamins needed, that's trickier. The more active your thyroid (or conversely, the lower your TSH level), the more B vitamins are generally needed. Faster metabolism needs more B vitamins. I just aim for what makes me feel physically at my best with no problems. They're water-soluble, so if you err on the generous side, it'll just wash out of your body & not build up.
Posted by Zo on May 18, 2002, at 4:34:29
In reply to Hair thinning as a side effect?, posted by sid on May 15, 2002, at 23:13:10
Posted by Karina on May 25, 2002, at 0:08:58
In reply to Re: Hair thinning as a side effect? » IsoM, posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 8:40:34
I went on an extremely low fat low carbohydrate diet. I lost weight fast 4 lbs a week. I also went to the hair dresser and she gave me 3 colour removal treatments and two colour applications in one visit!I was also taking herbs to calm down perimenopausal symptoms. I lost hair by the fistful. It fell into the dishwater as I finished washing the dishes. I have re-gained the 30 lbs I lost and my hair is fine. I take flaxseed oil and salmon oil. I also started using a shampoo called nioxin. I bought the cleanser only. See www.nioxin.com It is supposed to keep the scalp environment clear of DHAT (I think). My hair does not fall out anymore. Halleluyah!
Posted by Ponder on November 19, 2002, at 3:25:43
In reply to Re: Hair thinning as a side effect?, posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 12:10:07
There it was, on King-5 news, Seattle. One of those "news" stories that sounded more like a commercial. It was about a product called FNS (Follicle Nutrient Serum) manufactured by a company called Osmotics and now sold in Nordstrom stores as well as online outlets. Has anyone tried this? It's apparently a topical solution applied daily. $60 for a two-month supply. Would prefer to hear from some of you before plunking down that kind of money. Love my Lamictal, but would like to slow this shedding.
Posted by sjb on November 20, 2002, at 15:01:27
In reply to Hair Loss Remedy, posted by Ponder on November 19, 2002, at 3:25:43
Hi,
I was on Lexapro from Sept 11 until last week when I stopped. When I went up to 20mg I really noticed my hair thinning. There's much more hair on my bathroom floor and sink than I ever recall. I have (had) a lot of hair but . . it would not be a major concern if it helped otherwise, but it pooped out. I've been on over 25 different ADs and have never noticed any hair thinning. Could be 'cause I'm just flat-out old now.
This is the end of the thread.
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