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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg on April 30, 2000, at 15:37:18
Over the last 4-5 days my Wellbutrin hasn't been giving me the same lift (not wired, just more aware) as before. I'm going back to getting real tired during the day. I've been on it for about 8 weeks and have been feeling really good until lately. Is this normal? Should I consider changing meds? What are some of the other activating ADs? Any help would be appreciated, I DON'T want to go back to where I was 2 months ago.....
Thanks,
Greg
Posted by Noa on April 30, 2000, at 17:14:09
In reply to Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Greg on April 30, 2000, at 15:37:18
Greg, this is a shot in the dark, and I know I might be a bit obsessed with the thyroid thing, but I'm reading this book, The Thyroid Solution, and Dr. Arem, the author writes that sometimes med poop-out can be a result of developing a hypothyroid problem. I imagine it could also be caused by other metabolic or hormonal problems, too. I don't know if this is as true for men as for women. Fact is, I don't know much at all, but just had to throw these ideas out there.
Posted by Cam W. on April 30, 2000, at 22:28:37
In reply to Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Greg on April 30, 2000, at 15:37:18
Greg - Are you taking at least 300mg of Wellbutrin daily? I too, lost my energy on Wellbutrin after a couple of months, but after another three months I am still not spiraling into black pit of despair, where I once was. I too, occasionally get tired (and often nod) during the day, especially after reading my 4th journal article on "Psychiatric Assertive Outreach in Rural Areas". At that point I say, "Time for a stimulant", and go buy one of our horrid 25˘ coffees.I don't think that a med change is in order, yet. Ask your doc. Your body adjusts to activating ADs as well.
Try exercise; it has given me much more energy than I have had in years (since I played some fairly serious hockey). Some mornings, after a particularily sadistic karate workout, I can barely move for the next few mornings. (usually to impress some visiting impotentate...er potentate - god, if my sensei reads this I'm going to hurt for a week). I keep forgetting that I am not that young anymore. I may not be able to stretch as well as some of the young twenty-year olds, but can still kick their ass by outsmarting them (or cheating - same thing). I definitely promote group (forced) exercise as a way to also prevent reccurences.
Hope this helps - Cam W.
Posted by Greg on May 1, 2000, at 8:01:12
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Cam W. on April 30, 2000, at 22:28:37
Cam & Noa,
Thank you both for responding so quickly.I currently take 150mgs per day, 75 at about 5am, and another 75 around noon. I've been concerned about taking any more than that because I also have insomnia, I'm lucky if I can sleep from 9pm to 2am most nights, the rest of the night is tossing and turning (along with my mind going 90 mph). I take 10mgs of Ambien which I occasionally supplement with a Tylenol PM or two. I just hit a wall with my sleep. I can't remember the last time I was in bed (sleeping) past 6:30am.
I've had my Thyroid checked semi-regulary over the last few years and everything seems to be fine according to the doctors. As sadistic as it might sound, I sometimes wish that they WOULD find something wrong so at least I'd have an excuse.....
I'm actually relatively active these days (compared to a couple of months ago), my son is in little league, and I help coach the team, umpire games, field maintainance and scorekeeping. I had major back surgery about a year and a half ago (double disk removal and fusion), the surgery didn't go as well as expected so the extent of exercise I can get is somewhat limited due to lingering pain. It gets real bad when I stand or walk for too long.
I'm absolutely petrified (sp?) at the thought of going back to where I was, I literatly couldn't function. I'd go all day without eating, waiting for my wife to come home and cook because I didn't have the strength to get up and do it for myself. On more than one occasion I told my wife that I didn't want to live if I had to feel like that. Being able to be active part of family again has been such a blessing for me. I know my wife REALLY appreciates getting some help with the housework once in a while!
I'll talk to my doc about increasing the Wellbutrin dose. Do either of you get anxiety and/or panic attacks? I've been having a lot more anxiety over the last 4-5 days too and I'm wondering if the loss of effect of the Wellbutrin and the increased anxiety might be connected?
God, I'm really rambling here, please forgive me. I'm still pretty new to all this and any change in the way I feel really scares me. Thanks as always for your feedback.
Peace,
Greg
Posted by dove on May 1, 2000, at 13:55:49
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Greg on May 1, 2000, at 8:01:12
I did not have good luck with Wellbutrin, but my doc said that I never made it up to the clinically effective dosage. You should note that you are on a fairly low dosage also, and if you're not at risk for seizures, it can raised, there is still a lot of moving space at your dosage level.
I also have anxiety and panic-attacks, which the Wellbutrin failed to touch. I used Wellbutrin as an augmenter to my other main meds at that time(Adderall, Amitriptyline, and Prozac).
Part of my life-struggle has been fighting Insomnia, which is induced by my racing, very unquiet and uncooperative mind. I had to find a way to sleep, having been driven to self-destruction and general destruction of all interpersonal relationships. So, with the help of my husband, I discovered a few chemical strategies to bolster my offensive against this evil Insomnia villain. These could idealy be augmenters, to counter-effect the stimulating effects of meds like Wellbutrin.
Melatonin, Amitriptyline before bed, and Serzone before bed. Melatonin does not help with anxiety or panic-attacks, unless you're waking up in the night afflicted by them, then it helps a lot.
Amitriptyline helps a little in the anxiety corner, and helps sleep quality and quantity significantly, and is very useful for pain management. Though, at higher doses some will find the dry mouth, urine-retention and other anticholinergic(sp?) effects very troublesome. Amitriptyline in even once-a-day 50 mgs before bed dosage can improve sleep greatly.
Serzone, improves quality significantly, also battles nightmares, REM latency, PTSD, anxiety and panic disorders, depression, SSRI-induced sexual difficulties, and probably more. This med has reduced my need for higher dosages of Amitriptyline, and eliminated the need for Melatonin.
So, even if you need to raise the Wellbutrin, there may be ways to combat the sleep and pain difficulties. The best of luck to you.
dove
Posted by Greg on May 1, 2000, at 17:17:23
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out , posted by dove on May 1, 2000, at 13:55:49
Dove,
My doc put me on Prozac a short time ago, but took me off pretty quickly when it caused me extreme fatigue. I've never taken Melatonin or Amitriptyline, do they leave you feeling groggy in the am? Are they addictive?I've got a call into the doc about increasing my Wellbutrin, I hope it helps. I'm getting more tired by the day.
Do you find yourself waking up in the wee hours and planning your day? I REALLY hate that little voice..... Thank you so much for your input, Babbleland has helped me thru some pretty tough times.
Fly safely, Dove.
Peace,
Greg> I did not have good luck with Wellbutrin, but my doc said that I never made it up to the clinically effective dosage. You should note that you are on a fairly low dosage also, and if you're not at risk for seizures, it can raised, there is still a lot of moving space at your dosage level.
>
> I also have anxiety and panic-attacks, which the Wellbutrin failed to touch. I used Wellbutrin as an augmenter to my other main meds at that time(Adderall, Amitriptyline, and Prozac).
>
> Part of my life-struggle has been fighting Insomnia, which is induced by my racing, very unquiet and uncooperative mind. I had to find a way to sleep, having been driven to self-destruction and general destruction of all interpersonal relationships. So, with the help of my husband, I discovered a few chemical strategies to bolster my offensive against this evil Insomnia villain. These could idealy be augmenters, to counter-effect the stimulating effects of meds like Wellbutrin.
>
> Melatonin, Amitriptyline before bed, and Serzone before bed. Melatonin does not help with anxiety or panic-attacks, unless you're waking up in the night afflicted by them, then it helps a lot.
>
> Amitriptyline helps a little in the anxiety corner, and helps sleep quality and quantity significantly, and is very useful for pain management. Though, at higher doses some will find the dry mouth, urine-retention and other anticholinergic(sp?) effects very troublesome. Amitriptyline in even once-a-day 50 mgs before bed dosage can improve sleep greatly.
>
> Serzone, improves quality significantly, also battles nightmares, REM latency, PTSD, anxiety and panic disorders, depression, SSRI-induced sexual difficulties, and probably more. This med has reduced my need for higher dosages of Amitriptyline, and eliminated the need for Melatonin.
>
> So, even if you need to raise the Wellbutrin, there may be ways to combat the sleep and pain difficulties. The best of luck to you.
>
> dove
Posted by Chris A. on May 1, 2000, at 17:20:58
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Greg on May 1, 2000, at 8:01:12
Greg,
I was having similar sleep difficulties. Ambien's been a life saver, but it's short half life is a drawback for some of us. My pDoc recently added Klonopin 0.5 mg. at HS which has me sleeping through the night, which is really nice for a change. The Ambien gets me to sleep and the Klonopin keeps me there. As far as benzodiazapines go, it is the most gentle and side effect free. I also take a miniscule dose (0.125 mg) during the day. As far as the Wellbutrin goes, I have no suggestions, as it wasn't a med that worked at all for me (mixed bipolar).Blessings,
Chris A.
Posted by Sara T on May 3, 2000, at 21:34:39
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Chris A. on May 1, 2000, at 17:20:58
Wellbutrin gave me a sedating effect from the first dose. I was prescribed for ADD and Depression and Anxiety. But it made everything worse. I've been forgetful and spaced out as well as feeling so sedated that I'm almost afraid to drive. It had a paradoxical effect on me I guess.
Sara T
Posted by JohnB on May 3, 2000, at 22:20:05
In reply to Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Greg on April 30, 2000, at 15:37:18
Greg- I second Cam's advice, up the Wellbutrin dose, (unless you are at risk of seizure). If the Well. interferes with sleep, I'd try low dose of Remeron first, before sleeping pills or benzo's. Neurontin can be a nice adjunct to Well. for some people.(evens things out, helps a little with sleep for some, and it actually lowers the risk of seizure). Your mileage may vary. :o)
Posted by Rockets on May 5, 2000, at 0:08:54
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Sara T on May 3, 2000, at 21:34:39
Poop.. heh.. poop out.
Posted by SLS on May 7, 2000, at 11:07:02
In reply to Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Greg on April 30, 2000, at 15:37:18
> Over the last 4-5 days my Wellbutrin hasn't been giving me the same lift (not wired, just more aware) as before. I'm going back to getting real tired during the day. I've been on it for about 8 weeks and have been feeling really good until lately. Is this normal? Should I consider changing meds? What are some of the other activating ADs? Any help would be appreciated, I DON'T want to go back to where I was 2 months ago.....
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
Hi Greg.
If the decline in your condition persists, you may want to try adding another antidepressant before abandoning Wellbutrin all together. I have seen some pretty good responses when it has been combined with Effexor or Zoloft. If one of these has helped a bit in the past, you may consider trying that one first. If neither seems to be an obvious choice, I would try Effexor first.Desipramine may also be worth considering.
If none of these seem too appealing, it may be worthwhile giving a stimulant or Mirapex a short trial.
Check out some of the posts regarding Provigil.
- Scott
Posted by amyw on August 12, 2000, at 21:09:35
In reply to Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Greg on April 30, 2000, at 15:37:18
My son who is 18 had a dramatic effect from wellbutrin SR 300 mgs, but after two weeks, he already feels it wearing off and is reeally scared and discouraged. Plese tell me if you found an answer for your similar problem.
I am so worried about him.
Posted by Cam W. on August 13, 2000, at 10:07:20
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by amyw on August 12, 2000, at 21:09:35
> My son who is 18 had a dramatic effect from wellbutrin SR 300 mgs, but after two weeks, he already feels it wearing off and is reeally scared and discouraged. Plese tell me if you found an answer for your similar problem.
>
>
> I am so worried about him.Amy - What may be happening with your son is that the start-up side effects, the side effects that occur when one starts antidepressant therapy, have begun to fade. With Wellbutrin™, these include CNS stimulation, anxiety, dizziness, tremor, etc. The initial CNS stimulation can make one feel great for the first little while, but this is not due to Wellbutrin's antidepressant effects. This is probably due to Wellbutrin trying to readjust the body's neurotransmitter system (perhaps norepinephrine and dopamine) to re-establish (re-connect?) the body's stress reaction system (HPA axis) which is dysfunctional in most people with depression.
While your son doesn't feel "great" anymore, this may indicate that the antidepressant is beginning to work (ie the neurotransmitters and their receptors have readjusted to more "normal" levels). Antidepressants do take 4 to 8 weeks (sometimes longer) to exert their effects. Earlier effects are due to the start-up side effects of the drug and/or placebo effect. One starts taking the antidepressant and right away begins to feel different. They equate this with the lifting of the depression, but actually what they are feeling are side effects. This is especially true in the case of Wellbutrin. That initial energy burst is possibly due to an increase in dopamine without a corresponding decrease (or readjustment) of dopamine receptors (especially in the brain's pleasure centre, the nucleus accumbens).
Many people on this board, including me, and many people in real life have experienced the initial "boost" from Wellbutrin. I believe that when this effect wears off, that it is an indication that the drug is beginning to work. Unfortunately, when one responds to an antidepressant, they return to a more "normal" level of functioning (which is far better than a depressed level of functioning) and not a "better than normal" level of functioning.
Your son may be starting to feel euthymic or even a little down. Give the Wellbutrin another 2 to 4 weeks and I'll bet (cyber-dollars) that he will feel better, just not as good as he has been, for the past couple of weeks.
I hope that this makes some sense - Cam
Posted by MelosTalos on April 27, 2002, at 9:56:05
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone? » amyw, posted by Cam W. on August 13, 2000, at 10:07:20
If Wellbutrin is affecting your sleep, here's a few tips:
1) Talk to your prescriber about altering your morning and evening levels of medication. Taking 150mg as 100mg in the morning and 50mg in the evening can increase your norepenepherine and dopamine levels during the day (increasing arenaline production and thus possibly energy) while decreasing them at night (promoting restful sleep).
2) Talk to your prescriber about the possiblity of adding a second medication to the mix. Buspar is a common medication to be combined with Wellbutrin. Buspar can help to lower ardenaline levels while not affecting dopamine and norepanepherine levels. This can decrease agitation and anxiety while not lowering the effectiveness of Wellbutrin's anti-depressant properties.
Beyond this, be sure to strictly monitor stimulant intake. I used to be able to drink 14 cups of coffee in a sitting and then go right to bed. On Wellbutrin, I can't sleep if I have one cup o' joe at four in the afternoon. Don't forget that chocolate and many sodas and teas also contain caffiene, so be sure to monitor intake of these as well.As a side note, I beleive that very few, if any, cases of seisures have been reported for those on the newer Wellbutrin SR (slow release pills). All studies done on seisures related to Wellbutrin were performed using the older, non-SR medication, which was shown to induce seisures in 1 in 1000 patients (4 in 1000 when under the influence of alcohol). Anecdotal evidence shows that Wellbutrin SR may not have nearly that level of seisure inducement.
***Note: Please consult with your healthcare provider before altering your daily dosage or attempting to clandestinely add new medications to your body. He or she truly has your best interest in mind and is far less likely to steer you wrong. I am not a healthcare professional; I am only a man who tries to keep well-informed of his medications.***
Posted by pedr on April 29, 2002, at 11:49:13
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by amyw on August 12, 2000, at 21:09:35
Hi Amy,
I concurr with Cam wholeheartedly. For the first 3 weeks of being on Wellbutrin I was nauseous, had booming headaches, sharp stomach aches and intense feelings of depression pretty much ALL DAY. I very nearly gave up as it was extremely difficult to bear. However, I persisted and after 4 weeks these symptoms began to alleviate and now, 12 or so weeks in, my mood stays "good" for 80-90% of the time. It took 2 months to fully kick in for me. Ok, I still have stomach aches a lot of the time and a lot of anxiety but it's immeasurably better than feeling sickeningly low. I'd strongly advise your son to persist for at least another 2 weeks. I've not felt this normal/good/not-ultra-low for over 7 years.
HTH,
pete.
Posted by Cybele on October 27, 2003, at 18:27:20
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone? » amyw, posted by Cam W. on August 13, 2000, at 10:07:20
Cam wrote in the year 2K: "Amy - What may be happening with your son is that the start-up side effects, the side effects that occur when one starts antidepressant therapy, have begun to fade. With Wellbutrin™, these include CNS stimulation, anxiety, dizziness, tremor, etc. The initial CNS stimulation can make one feel great for the first little while, but this is not due to Wellbutrin's antidepressant effects. This is probably due to Wellbutrin trying to readjust the body's neurotransmitter system (perhaps norepinephrine and dopamine) to re-establish (re-connect?) the body's stress reaction system (HPA axis) which is dysfunctional in most people with depression."
This post is a couple years old, but I just wanted to add that the side-effects period of Wellbutrin seems to help with addictive behaviors. At least, that has been my observation the three times I have gone on it. For example, this time I went back on Weight Watchers and easily lost 3 pounds in one week. I no longer drool over the lemon bars in the pastry case at Starbucks or drag my hubby out for Tex-Mex and margaritas to help me feel better. I think that this must be how Wellbutrin works for people quitting smoking, as it is usually not taken very far past the side effects stage. Hopefully by then you've been a non-smoker for a couple weeks by then and can work off that momentum. Thoughts?
Posted by T_R_D on October 28, 2003, at 9:46:45
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Poop Out - Cam?..Anyone?, posted by Cybele on October 27, 2003, at 18:27:20
I agree totally...not to mention that it can also suppress your appetite...another reason why you might not be craving as much. I find it's helping me avoid alcohol too. A pretty good drug, so far!
This is the end of the thread.
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