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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jason Lohr on April 18, 2002, at 20:05:34
Dear Board Members,
I have posted over the years. Living with severe depression and cognative imparment has left me searching for answers...
A few years ago I read an interesting article by an evolutionary biologist at Amherst named Paul Ewauld. He proposed an interesting theroy that chronic disease, including mental health problems were the result to due latent infection, unrecognized by the immune system.
Research has been trying to identify various pathogens in neuropsychiatric sickness. I am sure you are aware of Borna Virus, Epstein-Barr, HHV-6 that has gotten considerable attention in regards to bi-polor disorder, chronif fatigue, ect.
There is work going on at the NIMH by a doctor named Susan Swedo, and her work with children having OCD as a result of strptococcal infections. They have treated some of these childdren with antibiotics with limited results. They have also treated these children with plasmapherisis, by which the blood plasma is cleaed of antigens. Some of the results are promising.
There is a non profit group out in California, headed by an MD, named John Martin. He is a virologist, who has worked extensively with autism and vaccines, and the possible connections. Martin is one of the foremost experts in the world on "stealth adapated viruses." These viruses lack certain genetic markers that allow for the viruses to evade immune detection, with the resulting lack of inflamatory response typically seen in acute infection.
Paul Ewauld pointed out traditional medicine has been taught to identify the acute manifestations of infection, but that perhaps chroinic infection of such stealth adapted viruses may be a problem for they do not present as what would typically be consided signs of infection. (I.E. no vomitting, fever, ect)
Dr. Martin has observed that these viruses have genetic similarities to Simarian Cytomeglia Virus (SCMV) which he beleives are in part due to contaminated polio vacinne lots used since the nineteen fifties. Martin worked for the FDA as supervisor of vaccine production for four years and pointed out long ago that there were genetic strands in the vaccines that were not human, but had come from the kidney cells of African Rhesus Monkeys. These monkeys were used to attentuate the viruses so that in vaccines, they would be less harmful to humans.
Martin has observed in virtro and in tissue biopsy of patients with chronic neurodegenerative disease, including ADD, Bi-polor, Schizoprenia, ALS, MS, Chronic Fatigue, ect that these patients often show signs of cytopathic cellular degeneration and resultant stealth viral infection.
These viruses can infect bacteria taking on genetic sequences of bacteria as well.
Recently I was tested for stealth viruses and my cultures came up positive. Up to this point, therapeutic measures towards fighting such infections have had limited resluts, using anti-viral, and immune modulating drugs that work to supress viral production.
In extensive conversation with Dr. Martin, it is clear that he is making some progess on the situation. He has focused he rsearch on (1)developing a viral inhibitor and (2) developing therapeutic substances that would help to as he says, "resussitate" the mitochondrial function of the cell, which is damaged in such patients.
At this point, he has found a natural substance, a lipid of sorts, some kind of trygliceride that he beleives is the first step in trying to repair damaged cells.
Soon, he is going to put toether a 100 person double blind FDA trial of this substance. Anecdotally, he has administed this trygliceride to three patients thus far with encouraging results. One patient has ALS, one patient has Chronic Fatigue, another patient has Schizoprenia.
At this point, Dr. Martin is looking to raise 100,000.00 for the trial to be a reality. I am currently trying to help Dr. Martin find funding to make this project a go.
I encourage any of you to do your research on Dr. Martin's work. He has posted much of his findings at his center's website www.ccid.org. Dr. Martin runs the Center for Complex Infectious Disease in Rosemead, California, where he and his staff are trying to characterize the nature of these infections and theurapeautic methods to treatment.
In conversation with other doctors at the CCID, I have found that it is possible for the body, due to infection, to create an autoimmune type respense to your own cells, including neurotransmitters, like seriotonin, dopamine, ect. For any of you who have ever axperienced brief, but short lived improvement on anti-depressants (in my case I have responded to a few drugs with positive results that last for only a few hours, and then nothing.) This has been explained to me that the drugs, doing their work in increasing the levels of certain neurotransmitters, raise the levels temporaitly, by which the patient may feel better. However, due to autoimmune responses gone hay wire, the body begins to attack the neurotransmitters, thus mitigating the effectivenss in time.
For those of you who have ever taken a psychotropic drug and had an extreme reaction, as in increased suicdal thinking, ect. this may be due in part, to the immune response attacking your own cells. This has happened to me before, and as you are well aware, this has occured to people, published stories in the litterature of people going crazy, killing themselves, or others after taking some of these drugs.
I am not against drugs. They have worked wonders or people, but I am apart of the treatment resistant group of the mentally ill, and I have tried to seek answers elsewhere.
For those of you resistant to the idea that infection could be in part a factor in mental illness, I point you to history. In early part of this century, 30% f the nations sanitariums were filled with late stage neuro syphalis disease. With the advent of penicilan, many of these so called mentally ill people reclaimed their lives. Also, one might consider AIDS dementia complex, neuro psychiatric manifestations of Lyme disease, ect.
My illness has been been labeled depression, but I have had a host of other "somatic" complaints, such as low body temperature, incredible fatque, vision problems, short term memeory loss, and profound dissociation, as if living in a fog.
Three months ago, I became sick with a cold. In the first few days of getting sick, my suicidal thinking and agitation increased markedly. This was followed by several hours one evening when copious amounts of clear mucus drained from my nose, accompanied by a profound recaptruing of my "old self" in that I felt like I was returing back to the world after so many years. My brain, usually a repetative mush, became clear, as it was long ago.
This convined me of the validity of the relatioship between the immune system and my mental health. I found the Center for Complex Infectious Disease through an MD in Seatle. That was three months ago. Toady, I am optomistic that this trial will soon be a reality, when the funding gets there.
To be considered for this double blind trial of the trygliceride, you must have your blood cultured and tested at the CCID for stealth infection. It is two hundred dollar test, tax dectable.
The study Martin is putting together will include 100 people. I am not sure as to how many more spaces are available. I would recommend, if you feel this information is applicable to you, to visit www.ccid.org.
I am working with John Martin, to help him get this trial underway. I am trying to spread the word and let others know that infection may be, in part, a major player in mental illness. This has yet to be fully proven, it is ground breaking research and there are no gauruntees. But, as I many of you will relate, it is important in this game of life and death, to exhaust every possible avenue into reclaiming our lives.
I can be reached by email at [email protected]
or by telephone in St. Louis at 314.422.8846.As I said, the study is free. I would be happy to talk with anyone about the information above as we try to share information on our ways towards healing.
Best Wishes,
Jason Lohr
p.s. sorry for the bad spelling...no spell check!
Posted by Bob on April 19, 2002, at 1:03:05
In reply to clinical trial on a different approach to mental , posted by Jason Lohr on April 18, 2002, at 20:05:34
Jason:
Are there other doctors researching "stealth adapted viruses", or is Dr. Martin blazing a new trail? I did a search on Google, and every hit mentioning stealth adapted viruses is connected with him alone, it seems. Not that he might not be on to something, but I was just wondering.
Thanks,
Bob
> Dear Board Members,
>
> I have posted over the years. Living with severe depression and cognative imparment has left me searching for answers...
>
> A few years ago I read an interesting article by an evolutionary biologist at Amherst named Paul Ewauld. He proposed an interesting theroy that chronic disease, including mental health problems were the result to due latent infection, unrecognized by the immune system.
>
> Research has been trying to identify various pathogens in neuropsychiatric sickness. I am sure you are aware of Borna Virus, Epstein-Barr, HHV-6 that has gotten considerable attention in regards to bi-polor disorder, chronif fatigue, ect.
>
> There is work going on at the NIMH by a doctor named Susan Swedo, and her work with children having OCD as a result of strptococcal infections. They have treated some of these childdren with antibiotics with limited results. They have also treated these children with plasmapherisis, by which the blood plasma is cleaed of antigens. Some of the results are promising.
>
> There is a non profit group out in California, headed by an MD, named John Martin. He is a virologist, who has worked extensively with autism and vaccines, and the possible connections. Martin is one of the foremost experts in the world on "stealth adapated viruses." These viruses lack certain genetic markers that allow for the viruses to evade immune detection, with the resulting lack of inflamatory response typically seen in acute infection.
>
> Paul Ewauld pointed out traditional medicine has been taught to identify the acute manifestations of infection, but that perhaps chroinic infection of such stealth adapted viruses may be a problem for they do not present as what would typically be consided signs of infection. (I.E. no vomitting, fever, ect)
>
> Dr. Martin has observed that these viruses have genetic similarities to Simarian Cytomeglia Virus (SCMV) which he beleives are in part due to contaminated polio vacinne lots used since the nineteen fifties. Martin worked for the FDA as supervisor of vaccine production for four years and pointed out long ago that there were genetic strands in the vaccines that were not human, but had come from the kidney cells of African Rhesus Monkeys. These monkeys were used to attentuate the viruses so that in vaccines, they would be less harmful to humans.
>
> Martin has observed in virtro and in tissue biopsy of patients with chronic neurodegenerative disease, including ADD, Bi-polor, Schizoprenia, ALS, MS, Chronic Fatigue, ect that these patients often show signs of cytopathic cellular degeneration and resultant stealth viral infection.
>
> These viruses can infect bacteria taking on genetic sequences of bacteria as well.
>
> Recently I was tested for stealth viruses and my cultures came up positive. Up to this point, therapeutic measures towards fighting such infections have had limited resluts, using anti-viral, and immune modulating drugs that work to supress viral production.
>
> In extensive conversation with Dr. Martin, it is clear that he is making some progess on the situation. He has focused he rsearch on (1)developing a viral inhibitor and (2) developing therapeutic substances that would help to as he says, "resussitate" the mitochondrial function of the cell, which is damaged in such patients.
>
> At this point, he has found a natural substance, a lipid of sorts, some kind of trygliceride that he beleives is the first step in trying to repair damaged cells.
>
> Soon, he is going to put toether a 100 person double blind FDA trial of this substance. Anecdotally, he has administed this trygliceride to three patients thus far with encouraging results. One patient has ALS, one patient has Chronic Fatigue, another patient has Schizoprenia.
>
> At this point, Dr. Martin is looking to raise 100,000.00 for the trial to be a reality. I am currently trying to help Dr. Martin find funding to make this project a go.
>
> I encourage any of you to do your research on Dr. Martin's work. He has posted much of his findings at his center's website www.ccid.org. Dr. Martin runs the Center for Complex Infectious Disease in Rosemead, California, where he and his staff are trying to characterize the nature of these infections and theurapeautic methods to treatment.
>
> In conversation with other doctors at the CCID, I have found that it is possible for the body, due to infection, to create an autoimmune type respense to your own cells, including neurotransmitters, like seriotonin, dopamine, ect. For any of you who have ever axperienced brief, but short lived improvement on anti-depressants (in my case I have responded to a few drugs with positive results that last for only a few hours, and then nothing.) This has been explained to me that the drugs, doing their work in increasing the levels of certain neurotransmitters, raise the levels temporaitly, by which the patient may feel better. However, due to autoimmune responses gone hay wire, the body begins to attack the neurotransmitters, thus mitigating the effectivenss in time.
>
> For those of you who have ever taken a psychotropic drug and had an extreme reaction, as in increased suicdal thinking, ect. this may be due in part, to the immune response attacking your own cells. This has happened to me before, and as you are well aware, this has occured to people, published stories in the litterature of people going crazy, killing themselves, or others after taking some of these drugs.
>
> I am not against drugs. They have worked wonders or people, but I am apart of the treatment resistant group of the mentally ill, and I have tried to seek answers elsewhere.
>
> For those of you resistant to the idea that infection could be in part a factor in mental illness, I point you to history. In early part of this century, 30% f the nations sanitariums were filled with late stage neuro syphalis disease. With the advent of penicilan, many of these so called mentally ill people reclaimed their lives. Also, one might consider AIDS dementia complex, neuro psychiatric manifestations of Lyme disease, ect.
>
> My illness has been been labeled depression, but I have had a host of other "somatic" complaints, such as low body temperature, incredible fatque, vision problems, short term memeory loss, and profound dissociation, as if living in a fog.
>
> Three months ago, I became sick with a cold. In the first few days of getting sick, my suicidal thinking and agitation increased markedly. This was followed by several hours one evening when copious amounts of clear mucus drained from my nose, accompanied by a profound recaptruing of my "old self" in that I felt like I was returing back to the world after so many years. My brain, usually a repetative mush, became clear, as it was long ago.
>
> This convined me of the validity of the relatioship between the immune system and my mental health. I found the Center for Complex Infectious Disease through an MD in Seatle. That was three months ago. Toady, I am optomistic that this trial will soon be a reality, when the funding gets there.
>
> To be considered for this double blind trial of the trygliceride, you must have your blood cultured and tested at the CCID for stealth infection. It is two hundred dollar test, tax dectable.
>
> The study Martin is putting together will include 100 people. I am not sure as to how many more spaces are available. I would recommend, if you feel this information is applicable to you, to visit www.ccid.org.
>
> I am working with John Martin, to help him get this trial underway. I am trying to spread the word and let others know that infection may be, in part, a major player in mental illness. This has yet to be fully proven, it is ground breaking research and there are no gauruntees. But, as I many of you will relate, it is important in this game of life and death, to exhaust every possible avenue into reclaiming our lives.
>
> I can be reached by email at [email protected]
> or by telephone in St. Louis at 314.422.8846.
>
> As I said, the study is free. I would be happy to talk with anyone about the information above as we try to share information on our ways towards healing.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Jason Lohr
>
> p.s. sorry for the bad spelling...no spell check!
Posted by Jason Lohr on April 19, 2002, at 3:43:21
In reply to Re: clinical trial on a different approach to mental » Jason Lohr, posted by Bob on April 19, 2002, at 1:03:05
Bob,
Dr. Martin, as far as I am aware, is the only person doing extensive research with stealth viruses. He actually coined the term stealth adapted virus. Others out there are doing research on related topics. Garth Nicholson is leading research on mycoplasma, Lida Mattman is doing work on cell wall deficient forms. You've got Lyme researchers like JoAnn Whitiker. What distinguishes Martin in his research is that he is trying to synthesize the congruties and the inconsistancies that have plagued the "infection theory" group of doctors. I think for a long time people have been suspecting something, but what?
As far as I know, the Center for Complex Infectious Disease is the only place doing this type of research, specifially on stealth pathogens, and "viteria", viruses with bacterial genetic sequences.
Jason
Posted by Lorraine on April 19, 2002, at 9:37:15
In reply to Martin and Stealth, posted by Jason Lohr on April 19, 2002, at 3:43:21
I agree re infectious basis for disease. You have been tested for Lyme? I was just tested positive. That doesn't mean that's all that's going on though.
Lorraine
Posted by Bob on April 19, 2002, at 13:09:37
In reply to Martin and Stealth, posted by Jason Lohr on April 19, 2002, at 3:43:21
Posted by JasonLohr on April 19, 2002, at 14:11:54
In reply to thanks for the info Jason! (nm) » Jason Lohr, posted by Bob on April 19, 2002, at 13:09:37
I tested unequivical. IgG and IgM showed poititve bands that one doctor suggested tht he was 97% certain that I had Lyme's. Interesting, this whole debate about Lyme disease, the inconsistancies is one of the things that Martin adresses in his reseasrch. Seems that antibodies to pathogens don't necessarily mean anything. But what might be happening is that viruses are picking genetic sequences of bacteria and incorporating them into their own RNA, thus, Martin uses the term "Viteria." Martin is working with Joseph Boransco (sp?) the Lyme doctor on the east coast. Seems that some people who are testing positive for Lyme's are not getting better on antibiotics. This confuses doctors and research. Hence, all of the controvery. Stealth viral infection might help explain this...
Jason
Posted by Lorraine on April 20, 2002, at 10:47:20
In reply to Lyme's..., posted by JasonLohr on April 19, 2002, at 14:11:54
Jason: To me, it seems like all roads lead to Rome. The fact is that with Lyme, I have activated levels of 4 herpes viruses and a NK function that sucks. So who is to say what causes what--it's all correlational analysis anyway. And, with Lyme there is the speculation that cases that don't respond well to antibiotics (and here there is the debate, long/term vs short/term--which aren't regarded as being effective in late stage lyme anyway by lyme literate doctors) are cases that have impaired immune function (which I have). If the conventional antibiotics don't work (I am on Valtrex 4 gm/day--which is a lot), coupled with hyperbaric oxygen treatment, which is believed to help drive the antibiotics deeper and lyme is supposed to be anaerobic as well, then it's on to some other treatment and my guess for me would be ozone or UV blood irradiation at a clinic in Mexico. I believe that fundamentally the problem with all of these is restoring the appropriate balance to the immune system. I am also taking transfer factor (which one of the guys associated with stealth viruses recommended.) I know that I am not willing to be involved in a double blind trial and to me right now it seems like everyone is just taking wild guesses (eventually one of these will be right).
Lorraine
Posted by Jaynee on April 20, 2002, at 17:28:03
In reply to clinical trial on a different approach to mental , posted by Jason Lohr on April 18, 2002, at 20:05:34
I definitely believe there is a connection to physical health and mental health. Just about everytime I go through a bout of clinical depression, I test positive for mono. I haven't even bothered to get tested this time around, because there is nothing they can do for mono anyways.
I have hemochromatosis, which means I absorb to much iron from my diet. Too much iron definetly causes havoc on ones brain, and there is a very strong connection between hemochromatosis and depression and mental illness. Too much iron also feeds bacteria, viruses and cancer. Hereditary hemochromatosis is the most common genetic disorder in North America, yet it is misdiagnosed upto 90% of the time. Even just being a carrier increases your iron levels. 1 in 7, people is a carrier of hemochromatosis.
It you haven't been checked, do so, it may help. The solution is simple, they just take a lot of blood from you, and you become a very good blood donor. You actually help others by helping yourself.
Posted by Jaynee on April 20, 2002, at 17:53:12
In reply to Re: clinical trial on a different approach to mental , posted by Jaynee on April 20, 2002, at 17:28:03
Here is another site regarding Hemochromatosis that is very near and dear to my heart.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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