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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Janelle on March 19, 2002, at 1:28:20
I've heard that acupuncture can help with depression - anyone out there have any direct experience with this (and if so, was it helpful or not)?
Or if anyone could post any results from studies done on this or links to results from studies I would greatly appreciate it.
Posted by sid on March 19, 2002, at 8:47:04
In reply to ACUPUNCTURE for depression?, posted by Janelle on March 19, 2002, at 1:28:20
Hi Janelle.
Yes I had direct experience with it for major depression and it helped me immensely. I used psychotherapy (talk and CBT) and acupuncture only. The therapy made me get better, but in a "slowly but surely" kind of mode. Then I added acupuncture and it had the effect of a huge step up within 2-3 weeks. Treatments made me feel MUCH better within 15-20 minutes, it was amazing. I'd go there kind of OK, but somewhat beay up, then I'd come out with a hige smile on my face, an unexplained one too... I saw a friend of mine right after a treatment and he was sure I'd found the love of my life and had had the sex of my life just before I met him. He kept asking "what's going on?", and all I could say was "I just had an acupuncture treatment, sorry, nothing extravagant."What it did was make me feel good and make me like it. I had homeworks too: go out in the sun w/o contact lenses or glasses for an hour a day (bare eyes). Also, exercise, eat well, cut coffee out of my diet, switch to green tea, cut sugar too. It was good for me.
I'd had dysthymia for a long time too, and unfortunately, therapy and acupunture did not work on the dysthymia. So recently I decided to try meds for it, as I know that majors episodes of depression are more likely for someone with dysthymia, and simply because I wanted to feel better if I could.
Unfortunately, acupunture treatments are very dependent on the provider - some are good, some not so much. If you live in the DC area, let me know, I'll recommend my acupunturist who was sooo good to me.
As far as articles about it, I read some. I don't have time to do a search right now, but I can do it if you want later this week. Let me know. What I remember from them is that acupuncture had about the same success rate against depression in women than some ADs (Prozac I presume). Also, some AD-resistant depression did respond to acupuncture, so it seemed like an interesting alternative for those who tried other options without success.
- sid
Posted by Denise528 on March 19, 2002, at 12:42:44
In reply to Re: ACUPUNCTURE for depression? » Janelle, posted by sid on March 19, 2002, at 8:47:04
Hi Janelle,
I've tried both acupuncute and ADs. The ADs used to work really well but the acupuncture didn't. That's not to say that it won't work for you though. I also saw your note re Zyprexa and I must say I don't find it particularly sedating although I do sleep like a log on it, have more energy and better concentration. This time round Zyprexa has been the only drug which has helped me.
Denise
Posted by Janelle on March 19, 2002, at 13:28:21
In reply to Re: ACUPUNCTURE for depression? » Janelle, posted by sid on March 19, 2002, at 8:47:04
WOW - thank you ever so much for your detailed description of your experience with acupuncture. I really appreciate it and I'm so happy to hear that you found it so POSITIVE. I'm going to try it.
Thanks also for your offer to refer me to your acupuncturist ... I don"t live in the DC area but thanks anyway.
Also, with all you told me about having gone through acupuncture I don't think I need any articles to confirm that! So I don't want to bother you with doing a search for articles about it. Thanks for offering that also.
I do have a couple of questions for you:
How many acupuncture treatments did you have?
What was it like, meaning did the acupuncturist tap the needles in and that was that, then you laid on the table for however long it was OR did the acupuncturist tap in the needles and then keep tapping each one until you could *feel* it a bit?
I ask the second question because I did go to an acupuncturist once (so far) recently and he did it the second way - where he tapped till I could feel it.
I never heard of this - I've been under the impression that acupuncture is done very lightly and that you're NOT supposed to feel it. I asked him about this and he told me he practices TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) and that this is the better way of doing it. In light of this, I'm curious to hear what your acupuncture was like (and how many you had).
THANKS A MILLION!
-Janelle
Posted by Janelle on March 19, 2002, at 13:35:35
In reply to Re: ACUPUNCTURE for depression?, posted by Denise528 on March 19, 2002, at 12:42:44
Hi Denise,
Thank you for sharing your experience with acupuncture. I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work much for you.
You said you've been on AD's, so I'm curious which one(s) you're on and what other meds you take and for what.
Thank you also for telling me your experience with Zyprexa ... I guess I could say the same - I don't find it particularly sedating as such, but I also sleep like a log on it. How much do you take? I'm on 5 mg/night.
Unfortunately, I don't have more energy and better concentration - in fact, it is the opposite. It seems to have a *hangover* effect and I feel tired, foggy, lethargic and cannot concentrate well. Not sure how long I'll remain on it if these side effects don't wear off.
-Janelle
Posted by sid on March 19, 2002, at 20:51:18
In reply to SID: thanks and more: » sid, posted by Janelle on March 19, 2002, at 13:28:21
> How many acupuncture treatments did you have?
I had one per week for 6 weeks, then 1 every other week for a couple of months, then 1 treatment at the changes of season (4 times a year) until I moved and never found another acupuncturist I liked so much. :-( Try several if it doesn't work at first.
> What was it like, meaning did the acupuncturist tap the needles in and that was that, then you laid on the table for however long it was OR did the acupuncturist tap in the needles and then keep tapping each one until you could *feel* it a bit?
Not sure what you mean... 1st treatment was VERY tiring - went straight to bed after and did not do much of anything for the next couple of days. She put the needles in (mostly in my back) and left them in for 45 minutes; an energy diffusing process. My back became VERY warm - I thought she was heating it with a lamp but not so. It was all red when I left... I was convinced that it did something right there and then. What it did was (and still is) not clear, but I felt a reaction.
Other treatments were a mixture of the same, although not much of that, along with "poking" and moxa burning. The poking is pressing on the needle somewhat forcefully and taking it out immediately - it's supposedly an energy-concentrating process. Moxa burning is using a dried herb (moxa), wetting it a bit, sticking it on the skin and lighting it. It burns slowly, and when you feel the heat on your skin, you say so and the acupuncturist removes it. Many insurances do not pay for that due to burn risks, but it was fine with mine at the time. It's acu-thermic treatment, basically. Some acupuncturists also leave needles in and use a powerful lamp to heat them - since they are in metal, the heat gets into your skin. Treatments other than the first one were done all over my body, on my fingers, on my hands, around my wrists, on my stomach, on my feet, on my head, on my face, on and in my ears, on my sides under the arms, etc. Treatment differs from one person to another however. Not all acupuncturists use the same techniques, and they consider everything for your treatment: diet, sleep pattern, medication, disease, etc...
> I ask the second question because I did go to an acupuncturist once (so far) recently and he did it the second way - where he tapped till I could feel it.
That might be what I call poking? It did not matter to her whether I felt it or not, but since she was doing this somewhat forcefully, I felt it every time and sometimes it was painful, although not unbearably painful - the benefits outweighed the discomfort.
> I never heard of this - I've been under the impression that acupuncture is done very lightly and that you're NOT supposed to feel it. I asked him about this and he told me he practices TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) and that this is the better way of doing it. In light of this, I'm curious to hear what your acupuncture was like (and how many you had).I guess it must be similar to the poking I'm talking about. My acupuncturist did TCM as well - she was trained in Columbia, Maryland, where there is a good school; it a M.A. in acupuncture.
> THANKS A MILLION!
You're welcome.
- sid
Posted by ST on March 20, 2002, at 4:02:43
In reply to SID: thanks and more: » sid, posted by Janelle on March 19, 2002, at 13:28:21
Hi,
The tapping actually is quite common. It's actually acupuncurists don't want the first few treatments to knock you on your ass, so they go slowly. It is weird when they twist and tap on those needles!
I've been getting acupuncture for years now. It got rid of my asthma after about two months of treatment. I continued for another year with weekly treatments. I stopped getting bronchitis every month and the asthma attacks also stopped. Lately, my asthma has been coming and going because I'm not keeping up with my asthma maintenance (no dairy, only occasional acupuncture, random cigarette while sipping wine).
All of this asthma babble is just to say: acupuncture IS very powerful and I believe can work for depression. I have not gone to an acupuncturist *specifically* for depression, but should start with mine (we're always working on other stuff!) I have heard it does help, along with certain herbs and watching your diet. I would never recommend, however, that someone go off their medication. And as with any symptom you're treating through acupuncture, you need several treatments to really start feeling anything. Most people have one, two or even three sessions and quit because they "don't feel anything". I'd say try it for a month.
Good luck!
Sarah
PS: Where do you live?
> WOW - thank you ever so much for your detailed description of your experience with acupuncture. I really appreciate it and I'm so happy to hear that you found it so POSITIVE. I'm going to try it.
>
> Thanks also for your offer to refer me to your acupuncturist ... I don"t live in the DC area but thanks anyway.
>
> Also, with all you told me about having gone through acupuncture I don't think I need any articles to confirm that! So I don't want to bother you with doing a search for articles about it. Thanks for offering that also.
>
> I do have a couple of questions for you:
>
> How many acupuncture treatments did you have?
>
> What was it like, meaning did the acupuncturist tap the needles in and that was that, then you laid on the table for however long it was OR did the acupuncturist tap in the needles and then keep tapping each one until you could *feel* it a bit?
>
> I ask the second question because I did go to an acupuncturist once (so far) recently and he did it the second way - where he tapped till I could feel it.
>
> I never heard of this - I've been under the impression that acupuncture is done very lightly and that you're NOT supposed to feel it. I asked him about this and he told me he practices TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) and that this is the better way of doing it. In light of this, I'm curious to hear what your acupuncture was like (and how many you had).
>
> THANKS A MILLION!
> -Janelle
Posted by beardedlady on March 20, 2002, at 5:16:01
In reply to Re: SID: thanks and more: » Janelle, posted by sid on March 19, 2002, at 20:51:18
I have a friend (former art teacher) who works at that Columbia accupuncture school!
Whoops--I suppose I should say something med related, since this is not PSB. I tried accupuncture for insomnia (my accupuncturist was a terrific master from Colombia, SA, I believe. When I was first diagnosed and on all these meds (including Xanax), I was suffering from grief—and anxiety and depression because of it.
Sometimes she stuck the needles in, and I cried like a baby—even on days I was feeling chipper. And sometimes I just relaxed. My sister had the flushed/hot kind of reaction to the needles, too; it's normal, just increased energy (aka blood flow) to the areas.
I stuck with it for two months, but my progress varied, and it really seemed to do nothing for me. But sometimes that hour to yourself (when you have children, especially) is pretty valuable. Then again, I'd rather spend it having a vigorous massage or a European facial! (Alas, both not covered by insurance!)
Beardy : )>
Posted by sid on March 20, 2002, at 7:56:30
In reply to Are we neighbors? + Accupuncture Experience » sid, posted by beardedlady on March 20, 2002, at 5:16:01
I used to live in the DC suburb where my acupunturist practiced. Now I'm in Canada though. So we're neighbours, but from far away. :-)
Posted by Hattree on March 20, 2002, at 16:50:49
In reply to Re: ACUPUNCTURE for depression? » Janelle, posted by sid on March 19, 2002, at 8:47:04
So...who is that accupuncturist in DC?
Posted by Bekka H. on March 20, 2002, at 18:13:52
In reply to Re: ACUPUNCTURE for depression? » sid, posted by Hattree on March 20, 2002, at 16:50:49
Can anyone recommend a good acupuncturist in or near New York City? I'll try just about anything at the point.
Posted by Janelle on March 20, 2002, at 18:47:01
In reply to acupuncture in general and that weird tapping..., posted by ST on March 20, 2002, at 4:02:43
ST - thanks for reassuring me that the tapping on the needles is indeed something that acupuncturists do. I've never experienced or heard of that before.
You asked where I live - in Arizona. Why do you ask and where do you live? Thanks!
Posted by Janelle on March 20, 2002, at 18:52:06
In reply to Re: ACUPUNCTURE for depression? » Janelle, posted by sid on March 19, 2002, at 8:47:04
Sid,
I just re-read your original response to me (because my memory is shot and I have to go over things a few times for them to sink in) and I read that you said you used pyschotherapy (talk and CBT) and acupuncture ONLY -- does this mean you have NOT used ANY kind of MEDS??????!????
Posted by sid on March 21, 2002, at 11:37:35
In reply to Re: ACUPUNCTURE for depression? » sid, posted by Hattree on March 20, 2002, at 16:50:49
Greta McVeigh. She practices at the University of Maryland and she has a private office in the same area, in PG County. You can reach her at the U of Md for a first contact.
- sid
Posted by sid on March 21, 2002, at 11:43:40
In reply to SID - question 4 U! » sid, posted by Janelle on March 20, 2002, at 18:52:06
No meds for major depression - psychotherapy and acupuncture. I am now taking meds (Effexor XR, stabilized at 75mg a day) for dysthymia, which I realized was still affecting me (I've had it since I was 13, so I'm just learning what it's like to be OK as an adult, at 34).
If I had to redo it all, I'd take the meds earlier, now that I realize even the 21 year old dysthymia is going away with them. I'd still go for the acupuncture and the therapy though, sonce they did help me a lot.
- sid
Posted by Janelle on March 21, 2002, at 15:35:00
In reply to Re: SID - question 4 U! » Janelle, posted by sid on March 21, 2002, at 11:43:40
What is dysthymia? I see this term on this board and it has been my understanding that it is a low level, mild, chronic depression? Is this accurate? Could you explain what the symptoms of dysthymia are? Thanks!
Posted by Hattree on March 22, 2002, at 9:16:22
In reply to Re: ACUPUNCTURE for depression? » Hattree, posted by sid on March 21, 2002, at 11:37:35
This is the end of the thread.
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