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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bill1 on March 14, 2002, at 8:50:32
Hey, I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but I need some advice.
I'm 18 right now, 19 in a few months, and I think I have some sort of anxiety disorder. Basically, I'm afraid of social situations and often avoid them. Whenever someone mentions me having to go into one, I get nervous and for some reason, probably thinking about how I could mess it up or make it akward. It's an irrational fear, and I know that, but there's nothing I can do myself to stop it. There's always something in the back of my head in social situations that keeps me from reaching out or being myself and I'm always just afraid. It's crippled my life to a great extent as I've left high school and lost the few friends I did have, and have a very hard time making new ones. Now I have really none, and very little other human contact in general, and it's severely trying my mental stability.
Anyway, what really spurred me to post this is the fact that last night I was over at my brother's friend's house with my brother and I took 5 of his dexedrine pills. Not a smart thing to do, I'm sure, but my life is such a horrible mess lately, I've been trying anything to change it. But the thing is that it had a great effect on me. I lost the fear in social situations, became much more talkative and sociable, and experienced something I'm not sure I ever have before: I actually felt like meeting new people and talking with people in general. I got a bit of motivation and aim as I'm usually pretty lazy and unmotivated. It was a tremendous feeling being free of that irrational fear and having actual conversations with people. I never wanted to come down off it.
The odd thing is that I read in many places that dexedrine is a form of speed and will only make your anxiety worse. But it make nearly everything better for me. I could talk to people with no problem, focused on things better, and was more relaxed and free of my constant worry. Although my heartbeat has seemed erratic since I took them and I haven't slept since then (last night), but that's probably because I took way too many. But I'm not sure if it would have helped me in the way it did if I hadn't taken all that.
Well, I suppose I just need advice. How the dexadrine helped me might point to me having some other disorder, and if so, what would be a good medication for that? I know dexadrine is for ADHD, but I'm pretty sure I'm clear of that, because I really don't have a problem concentrating when I want to and I do very well in school now. I don't think it's depression because I really don't want to kill myself, but thinking about the lack of human contact I have all the time and the pain from that really hurts. Although I'm obviously not aware of the true symptoms of depression, so it could be that for all I know.
I have a feeling my social problems don't come off as serious as they really are in this post, but sorry for the long post and thanks for the help.
Posted by Carlos on March 14, 2002, at 14:59:10
In reply to Anxiety or something else?, posted by Bill1 on March 14, 2002, at 8:50:32
Hi Bill,
I can't diagnose you or anything, but I can express to you what I have and see if maybe you can relate.
I recently turned 20, so we're around the same age. I've had social anxiety disorder ever since I was about 13. I can't even remember what it's like to be "normal" All I know is that (when medication isn't working) I am very scared of social situations. Like you, I get what I would precieve to be "anxious". My heart starts to palpatate, thoughts race through my mine of how bad I'm going to come off, if I might have to be the center of attention, if I make a ass of myself, etc.
College was especially hard. I would often not go to class because I might have to talk in front of people, or embarass myself in some way. Even hearing people socialize outside my apartment door would make me extremely nervous cause me to stay inside. I really felt alone. I had absolutely no frineds. This eventually made me so upset and depressed I dropped out.
I told my parents about it, and asked my dad (since he sufferd form acute depression) if could take some of his anti-depressants (Zoloft 50mg). It seemed to worked great for the first two weeks. I would usually be in a good mood, I wasn't a social butterfly as they say, but I wasn't as nervous in situations the I would usually avoid. Then the anxiety came back I went to see my doctor about it (not a physciatrist) and we tried uping the doseage, which only made the side-effects worse. But to make a long story short, I've tried many drugs since than and am still having some troubles find the 'right one'. I haven't really been diagnosed with anything by a pdoc, but am pretty sure I have SAD, and mild depression as a cause.
Even though it wasn't a good idea to take someone's prescriptions drugs, I am glad to hear it seemed to improve your situation. This just might be the right thing for you. I would certainly see a doctor about it though, as it's not safe to self-medicate yourself. If things go well, you may be one of the very lucky few that found their problem and a working strategy to combat it.
Best wishes,
Carlos
Posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 6:33:06
In reply to Anxiety or something else?, posted by Bill1 on March 14, 2002, at 8:50:32
hey,Is this social anxiety a problem you have always had, or is this something that recently started?
Also, have you had problems with depression?
best regards
John
> Hey, I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but I need some advice.
>
> I'm 18 right now, 19 in a few months, and I think I have some sort of anxiety disorder. Basically, I'm afraid of social situations and often avoid them. Whenever someone mentions me having to go into one, I get nervous and for some reason, probably thinking about how I could mess it up or make it akward. It's an irrational fear, and I know that, but there's nothing I can do myself to stop it. There's always something in the back of my head in social situations that keeps me from reaching out or being myself and I'm always just afraid. It's crippled my life to a great extent as I've left high school and lost the few friends I did have, and have a very hard time making new ones. Now I have really none, and very little other human contact in general, and it's severely trying my mental stability.
>
> Anyway, what really spurred me to post this is the fact that last night I was over at my brother's friend's house with my brother and I took 5 of his dexedrine pills. Not a smart thing to do, I'm sure, but my life is such a horrible mess lately, I've been trying anything to change it. But the thing is that it had a great effect on me. I lost the fear in social situations, became much more talkative and sociable, and experienced something I'm not sure I ever have before: I actually felt like meeting new people and talking with people in general. I got a bit of motivation and aim as I'm usually pretty lazy and unmotivated. It was a tremendous feeling being free of that irrational fear and having actual conversations with people. I never wanted to come down off it.
>
> The odd thing is that I read in many places that dexedrine is a form of speed and will only make your anxiety worse. But it make nearly everything better for me. I could talk to people with no problem, focused on things better, and was more relaxed and free of my constant worry. Although my heartbeat has seemed erratic since I took them and I haven't slept since then (last night), but that's probably because I took way too many. But I'm not sure if it would have helped me in the way it did if I hadn't taken all that.
>
> Well, I suppose I just need advice. How the dexadrine helped me might point to me having some other disorder, and if so, what would be a good medication for that? I know dexadrine is for ADHD, but I'm pretty sure I'm clear of that, because I really don't have a problem concentrating when I want to and I do very well in school now. I don't think it's depression because I really don't want to kill myself, but thinking about the lack of human contact I have all the time and the pain from that really hurts. Although I'm obviously not aware of the true symptoms of depression, so it could be that for all I know.
>
> I have a feeling my social problems don't come off as serious as they really are in this post, but sorry for the long post and thanks for the help.
Posted by Carlos on March 15, 2002, at 10:19:49
In reply to Re: Anxiety or something else? » Bill1, posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 6:33:06
>
> hey,
>
> Is this social anxiety a problem you have always had, or is this something that recently started?
>
> Also, have you had problems with depression?
>
> best regards
> John
I've had SA since puberty I'm sure. Having SAD has lead to mild depression.
Posted by Bill1 on March 15, 2002, at 10:48:42
In reply to Re: Anxiety or something else? » Bill1, posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 6:33:06
I'm pretty sure it started a bit before high-school, I'm guessing about when puberty hit, and it only got worse and worse through high-shool. I really haven't had problems with depression, but, yeah, the society anxiety has started to make me fairly depressed, especially lately. I think if I don't deal with it I will have big problems with depression in the future.
>
> hey,
>
> Is this social anxiety a problem you have always had, or is this something that recently started?
>
> Also, have you had problems with depression?
>
> best regards
> John
>
Posted by Carlos on March 15, 2002, at 14:11:52
In reply to Re: Anxiety or something else?, posted by Bill1 on March 15, 2002, at 10:48:42
Seems like we have a very similar condition. I agree that if you don't seek treatment the problem will most likey get worse. I'm currently on Zoloft (50mg once, morning) and Wellbutrin SR (150mg once, morning). The Zoloft eases my anxiety, and I take the the Wellbutrin to liven me up a bit since the zoloft tends to make me tired and a bit apathetic. I'd like to find out how you go about treatment, keep us posted.
Carlos
> I'm pretty sure it started a bit before high-school, I'm guessing about when puberty hit, and it only got worse and worse through high-shool. I really haven't had problems with depression, but, yeah, the society anxiety has started to make me fairly depressed, especially lately. I think if I don't deal with it I will have big problems with depression in the future.
Posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 23:04:30
In reply to Re: Anxiety or something else?, posted by Carlos on March 15, 2002, at 14:11:52
Billl,
You may want to review this web page regarding possible pharmacological treatment should you decide to go that route:
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/social.html
I'm not a social phobia expert, but....
given your positive response to dexedrine you may do well on a medicine like Parnate. This medicine has a very similar simulant effect for some. It is in the class of medicines called MAO inhibitors. The other MAOI medicine often prescribed is Nardil, which is less likely to cause anxiety, but not quite as much "punch" like you felt on the dexedrine. Usually doctors go with non MAOI medicines first however because of dietary restrictions with MAO inhibitors.Other people can comment on their experience with social phobia meds. Wellbutrin as Carlos was taking, for some people is good at treating apathetic type depressions. Some people feel a dexedrine like kick on it, but it can be agitating. The SSRIs are generally more prescribed 1st line for anxiety type symptoms.
best wishes
John> Seems like we have a very similar condition. I agree that if you don't seek treatment the problem will most likey get worse. I'm currently on Zoloft (50mg once, morning) and Wellbutrin SR (150mg once, morning). The Zoloft eases my anxiety, and I take the the Wellbutrin to liven me up a bit since the zoloft tends to make me tired and a bit apathetic. I'd like to find out how you go about treatment, keep us posted.
>
> Carlos
>
>
> > I'm pretty sure it started a bit before high-school, I'm guessing about when puberty hit, and it only got worse and worse through high-shool. I really haven't had problems with depression, but, yeah, the society anxiety has started to make me fairly depressed, especially lately. I think if I don't deal with it I will have big problems with depression in the future.
Posted by JohnX2 on March 16, 2002, at 1:28:24
In reply to Re: social phobia medicines/ MAOIs etc, posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 23:04:30
hi billl,Information on this website may be useful:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/anxiety/phobiafacts.cfm
Again, I'm not sure if this applies to your scenario, but this web site may have some good information to review. just a thought.
regards
John
> Billl,
>
> You may want to review this web page regarding possible pharmacological treatment should you decide to go that route:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/social.html
>
> I'm not a social phobia expert, but....
> given your positive response to dexedrine you may do well on a medicine like Parnate. This medicine has a very similar simulant effect for some. It is in the class of medicines called MAO inhibitors. The other MAOI medicine often prescribed is Nardil, which is less likely to cause anxiety, but not quite as much "punch" like you felt on the dexedrine. Usually doctors go with non MAOI medicines first however because of dietary restrictions with MAO inhibitors.
>
> Other people can comment on their experience with social phobia meds. Wellbutrin as Carlos was taking, for some people is good at treating apathetic type depressions. Some people feel a dexedrine like kick on it, but it can be agitating. The SSRIs are generally more prescribed 1st line for anxiety type symptoms.
>
> best wishes
> John
>
>
>
> > Seems like we have a very similar condition. I agree that if you don't seek treatment the problem will most likey get worse. I'm currently on Zoloft (50mg once, morning) and Wellbutrin SR (150mg once, morning). The Zoloft eases my anxiety, and I take the the Wellbutrin to liven me up a bit since the zoloft tends to make me tired and a bit apathetic. I'd like to find out how you go about treatment, keep us posted.
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> > > I'm pretty sure it started a bit before high-school, I'm guessing about when puberty hit, and it only got worse and worse through high-shool. I really haven't had problems with depression, but, yeah, the society anxiety has started to make me fairly depressed, especially lately. I think if I don't deal with it I will have big problems with depression in the future.
Posted by Carlos on March 16, 2002, at 1:59:51
In reply to Re: social phobia medicines/ MAOIs etc, posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 23:04:30
Thanks for that link. That page described me to a T!
> Billl,
>
> You may want to review this web page regarding possible pharmacological treatment should you decide to go that route:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/social.html
>
> I'm not a social phobia expert, but....
> given your positive response to dexedrine you may do well on a medicine like Parnate. This medicine has a very similar simulant effect for some. It is in the class of medicines called MAO inhibitors. The other MAOI medicine often prescribed is Nardil, which is less likely to cause anxiety, but not quite as much "punch" like you felt on the dexedrine. Usually doctors go with non MAOI medicines first however because of dietary restrictions with MAO inhibitors.
>
> Other people can comment on their experience with social phobia meds. Wellbutrin as Carlos was taking, for some people is good at treating apathetic type depressions. Some people feel a dexedrine like kick on it, but it can be agitating. The SSRIs are generally more prescribed 1st line for anxiety type symptoms.
>
> best wishes
> John
>
>
Posted by christophre jmc on March 16, 2002, at 13:47:06
In reply to Re: social phobia medicines/ MAOIs etc, posted by Carlos on March 16, 2002, at 1:59:51
I'm also around your age (20), and have been dealing with social phobia for as long as I can remember. I agree with JohnX2, Parnate may be especially helpful in your case -- MAOIs in general are considered the best drugs for social phobia.
Does Dexedrine make you euphoric? If so, it might not the best solution (those who experience euphoria on stimulants are usually at an increased risk for tolerance, dependence, and sometimes addiction). I was on Dexedrine a long time for ADD, it helped a little with social phobia, but not as much as it did for you. You might have trouble getting it prescribed for non-ADD/ADHD. Also, make sure that it helps as much at lower doses.
Anti-anxiety drugs like the benzodiazepines Xanax and Klonopin are probably better for social anxiety, but can help with social phobia. A lot of people with SP/SA prefer Klonopin, but I found Xanax much more helpful (and less sedating).
Good luck,
Chris
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on March 17, 2002, at 0:25:16
In reply to Re: Anxiety or something else? » Bill1, posted by JohnX2 on March 15, 2002, at 6:33:06
Oddly enough, the best social phobia medicine (besides Alcohol) I have taken is Dexedrine. Dexedrine at a low dose 5 mg 2x per day helped me gain self-confidence, increased talkitiveness/socialibility, did not really make me nervous & is probably hands down the best anti-depressant I have ever taken. At that low dose didn't do much for my ADD- much of the time I couldn't tell if it was working or not. Normal dosages for ADD, say 10 mg 2x per day might not be good for social phobia since it would probably make you edgy/nervous but I have personally not tried that dose.
Right now I take a high dose (4 mg/day) of Klonopin, which second to Nardil, is supposed to be the best medicine for Social Phobia. I find it calms anxiety/shakiness/mind going blank when talking to women for instance- but it does not increase my self confidence/outgoingness as much. I still wait for women/girls to approach me rather than go up & start talking to them. I am more likely to go introduce myself to that blonde at the bar if I was taking Dexedrine than if I was taking Klonopin. But if I was taking both perhaps i'd do twice as well! (I plan to switch to both- right now, along with the Klonopin I am taking Provigil 200 mg/day which seems to me, to be a ridiculously expensive glorified ER caffeine pill). You might want to look into the Dexedrine Spansules since they are less prone to abuse, less likely to cause crash/dysphoria, & last about 11 hours. But I haven't found anyone to give me detailed feedback on whether the spansules work well or not.
Adderall makes me more nervous than Dexedrine & is said to cause more peripheral effects (heartbeat, nervousness, locomotion)- Adderall is in fact an old discontinued diet pill called Obetrol that was bought and renamed & marketed for ADD as Adderall.
I found Zoloft 100 mg for me, was better for social phobia than either Dexedrine or Klonopin, but they found out that SSRIs make me manic & I couldn't sleep for days, so that was the end of that. But, Zoloft often causes sexual problems such as unable to ejaculate for about an hour, so even if you took that blonde home with you, it would be kind of a win/lose situation.
Posted by JohnX2 on March 17, 2002, at 1:00:11
In reply to For me, Dexedrine is the best social phobia med, posted by 3 Beer Effect on March 17, 2002, at 0:25:16
AndrewB did well with Adderall for Avoidant Personality disorder, which I believe is an offshoot of Social Phobia.He had poop out problems with this medicine, so he quit taking it. When he augmented with memantine, the poop out went away and he seemed to be a happy camper.
The dexedrine is much more selective for the dopaminergic neurons. Adderall has isomers of l-amphetamine (a mirror image of dexedrine d-amphetamine), which is less selective and will go after the norepinephrine. This can cause some agitation I believe.
I liked Adderall too. But I think it was too overwhelming for my body. It made me very manic and I would walk up to random strangers and talk their ears off. ;)
regards
John> Oddly enough, the best social phobia medicine (besides Alcohol) I have taken is Dexedrine. Dexedrine at a low dose 5 mg 2x per day helped me gain self-confidence, increased talkitiveness/socialibility, did not really make me nervous & is probably hands down the best anti-depressant I have ever taken. At that low dose didn't do much for my ADD- much of the time I couldn't tell if it was working or not. Normal dosages for ADD, say 10 mg 2x per day might not be good for social phobia since it would probably make you edgy/nervous but I have personally not tried that dose.
>
> Right now I take a high dose (4 mg/day) of Klonopin, which second to Nardil, is supposed to be the best medicine for Social Phobia. I find it calms anxiety/shakiness/mind going blank when talking to women for instance- but it does not increase my self confidence/outgoingness as much. I still wait for women/girls to approach me rather than go up & start talking to them. I am more likely to go introduce myself to that blonde at the bar if I was taking Dexedrine than if I was taking Klonopin. But if I was taking both perhaps i'd do twice as well! (I plan to switch to both- right now, along with the Klonopin I am taking Provigil 200 mg/day which seems to me, to be a ridiculously expensive glorified ER caffeine pill). You might want to look into the Dexedrine Spansules since they are less prone to abuse, less likely to cause crash/dysphoria, & last about 11 hours. But I haven't found anyone to give me detailed feedback on whether the spansules work well or not.
>
> Adderall makes me more nervous than Dexedrine & is said to cause more peripheral effects (heartbeat, nervousness, locomotion)- Adderall is in fact an old discontinued diet pill called Obetrol that was bought and renamed & marketed for ADD as Adderall.
>
> I found Zoloft 100 mg for me, was better for social phobia than either Dexedrine or Klonopin, but they found out that SSRIs make me manic & I couldn't sleep for days, so that was the end of that. But, Zoloft often causes sexual problems such as unable to ejaculate for about an hour, so even if you took that blonde home with you, it would be kind of a win/lose situation.
Posted by JohnQ on March 18, 2002, at 18:49:10
In reply to Re: social phobia medicines/ MAOIs etc, posted by christophre jmc on March 16, 2002, at 13:47:06
> I'm also around your age (20), and have been dealing with social phobia for as long as I can remember. I agree with JohnX2, Parnate may be especially helpful in your case -- MAOIs in general are considered the best drugs for social phobia.
>
> Does Dexedrine make you euphoric? If so, it might not the best solution (those who experience euphoria on stimulants are usually at an increased risk for tolerance, dependence, and sometimes addiction). I was on Dexedrine a long time for ADD, it helped a little with social phobia, but not as much as it did for you. You might have trouble getting it prescribed for non-ADD/ADHD. Also, make sure that it helps as much at lower doses.
>
> Anti-anxiety drugs like the benzodiazepines Xanax and Klonopin are probably better for social anxiety, but can help with social phobia. A lot of people with SP/SA prefer Klonopin, but I found Xanax much more helpful (and less sedating).
>
> Good luck,
> ChrisChris, could you explain the difference between social anxiety and social phobia? Would I be correct in assuming SA is more physical (nervousness) and SP more mental (low confidence)?
Posted by djmmm on March 18, 2002, at 19:22:23
In reply to Re: social phobia medicines/ MAOIs etc » christophre jmc, posted by JohnQ on March 18, 2002, at 18:49:10
simply semantics...
Posted by christophre jmc on March 18, 2002, at 22:34:08
In reply to Re: social phobia medicines/ MAOIs etc » christophre jmc, posted by JohnQ on March 18, 2002, at 18:49:10
> Chris, could you explain the difference between social anxiety and social phobia? Would I be correct in assuming SA is more physical (nervousness) and SP more mental (low confidence)?
It really depends upon who you ask... I just meant the phobic aspects (avoidance, inhibition, etc.) of Social Anxiety Disorder rather than the physical symptoms. Technically, social phobia is the same as Social Anxiety Disorder.
This is the end of the thread.
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