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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shellir on January 4, 2002, at 22:56:01
I'm trying to figure out how many tylenol IIIs would equal a 7.5mg hydrocondone pill. I know that synthetic codeine is stronger than regular codeine;
does anyone know how much?TIA,
Shelli
Posted by MB on January 4, 2002, at 23:44:01
In reply to Codeine vs. codone, posted by shellir on January 4, 2002, at 22:56:01
>
> I'm trying to figure out how many tylenol IIIs would equal a 7.5mg hydrocondone pill. I know that synthetic codeine is stronger than regular codeine;
> does anyone know how much?
>
> TIA,
>
> Shelli
This is from personal experience, and in no way a scientific answer, but I think about four or five Tylenol IIIs did roughly the same for me as 7.5 mg of hydrocodone. But that is just my *subjective experience*.Peace,
MB
Posted by IsoM on January 5, 2002, at 12:56:31
In reply to Re: Codeine vs. codone » shellir, posted by MB on January 4, 2002, at 23:44:01
Be careful how many of the Tylenol tablets you take that you don't go over 1000mg of acetaminophen, the main ingredient in Tylenol, at one dosing or over 2000mg for a few days. Few people realise that high doses of acetaminophen is harder on your liver than most other drugs.
> >
> > I'm trying to figure out how many tylenol IIIs would equal a 7.5mg hydrocondone pill. I know that synthetic codeine is stronger than regular codeine;
> > does anyone know how much?
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Shelli
>
>
> This is from personal experience, and in no way a scientific answer, but I think about four or five Tylenol IIIs did roughly the same for me as 7.5 mg of hydrocodone. But that is just my *subjective experience*.
>
> Peace,
> MB
Posted by stjames on January 5, 2002, at 13:13:28
In reply to careful of the acetaminophen level!!, posted by IsoM on January 5, 2002, at 12:56:31
> Be careful how many of the Tylenol tablets you take that you don't go over 1000mg of acetaminophen, the main ingredient in Tylenol, at one dosing or over 2000mg for a few days. Few people realise that high doses of acetaminophen is harder on your liver than most other drugs.
Wise words. Tyenol III contains 300 mgs Acetaminophen per pill.j
Posted by Cam W. on January 5, 2002, at 16:43:15
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!!, posted by stjames on January 5, 2002, at 13:13:28
> > Be careful how many of the Tylenol tablets you take that you don't go over 1000mg of acetaminophen, the main ingredient in Tylenol, at one dosing or over 2000mg for a few days. Few people realise that high doses of acetaminophen is harder on your liver than most other drugs.
>
>
> Wise words. Tyenol III contains 300 mgs Acetaminophen per pill.
>
> jAlso, concomittant alcohol consumption, even with slightly higher than recommended acetaminophen (Tylenol™) doses, can exacerbate the liver damage (ie. there is a greater extent of liver damage that will occur than if either of the drugs - alcohol or acetaminophen - were taken alone).
If a company tried to get Health Canada or the FDA to approve acetaminophen as a new drug, it probably would not pass phase one trials.
- Cam
Posted by shellir on January 5, 2002, at 22:15:41
In reply to careful of the acetaminophen level!!, posted by IsoM on January 5, 2002, at 12:56:31
Posted by cisco on January 7, 2002, at 5:09:10
In reply to Codeine vs. codone, posted by shellir on January 4, 2002, at 22:56:01
> Dear Shelli:
Morphine is the Benchmark.
Codeine is considered to be 10-15% as potent as Morphine. (100-150mg Codeine is equivalent to 10-15mg Morphine)
Oxycodone is considered equal to Morphine
(Personally, I think it is stronger. Has more of a 'stimulant' effect than Morphine).Hydrocodone is what, at least 1/2 as strong as Oxycodone?
Supposedly Dihydrocodeinone is 4X stronger than Dihydrocodeine.
Codeine and Dihydrocodeine are about the same.50-75mg Codeine = 10-15mg Hydrocodone?
I'm missing something.
Sorry.
There is no way a Tylenol #4 (60mg) is anywhere near as strong as a 10mg Lortab (hydrocodone).Hope this helps. I doubt it!
-Cisco
Posted by MB on January 7, 2002, at 8:45:37
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!!, posted by Cam W. on January 5, 2002, at 16:43:15
Cam, do you know if acetaminophen causes permanent damage to the liver...i.e., if you overdose and/or drink with it, get sick, and then get better, is the liver still permanently hurt (scarring, etc.)?
> If a company tried to get Health Canada or the FDA to approve acetaminophen as a new drug, it probably would not pass phase one trials.
>
> - Cam
Posted by Willow on January 7, 2002, at 12:38:57
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!! » Cam W., posted by MB on January 7, 2002, at 8:45:37
I'm not Cam, but have a little knowledge of the liver. I believe that it is the only organ that can cure itself fairly well, but on the negative side I think it will keep functioning until almost done so it may not show symptoms of illness. There is a "liver fondation" on the net which has info concerning this organ.
Posted by Cam W. on January 7, 2002, at 13:21:14
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!! » Cam W., posted by MB on January 7, 2002, at 8:45:37
MB - Yes, permanent damage from combining acetaminophen with alcohol can cause permanent damage over time. Like the lungs, the liver can recover, up to a point. I am not sure, but I believe it can cause cirrhosis, but I am not positive. - Cam
Posted by IsoM on January 7, 2002, at 13:32:17
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!! » MB, posted by Cam W. on January 7, 2002, at 13:21:14
Cam, if you're interested there's a software program that's free to download designed by Jessica R Oesterheld, M.D. & David N. Osser, M.D called P450 Interactions. You can enter any number of medications in it & check what CYPs & substrate they affect, & any interactions among the other drugs. Are you interested? For all I know this may be completely unnecessary for you as you already have it or something.
> MB - Yes, permanent damage from combining acetaminophen with alcohol can cause permanent damage over time. Like the lungs, the liver can recover, up to a point. I am not sure, but I believe it can cause cirrhosis, but I am not positive. - Cam
Posted by Cam W. on January 7, 2002, at 16:20:47
In reply to Drug Interactions Software » Cam W., posted by IsoM on January 7, 2002, at 13:32:17
Thanks IsoM - I've had that site since November, but alas, it is a Windows-based program, and I have a Mac. I know that I could get some sort of software to translate it, but I miss a lot of viruses (and probably a lot of free porn) not being able to download Windows programs.
BTW, for others with "real" computers the URL is:
http://www.mhc.com/Cytochromes/index.html
I use Dave Flockhart's P450 tables for my calculating. It is probably not as good, I have learned to make do.
Posted by christophrejmc on January 7, 2002, at 16:48:53
In reply to Drug Interactions Software » Cam W., posted by IsoM on January 7, 2002, at 13:32:17
it's a great program -- too bad it's demoware :[
Posted by Noa on January 8, 2002, at 15:40:57
In reply to careful of the acetaminophen level!!, posted by IsoM on January 5, 2002, at 12:56:31
Be careful about how much codeine or codone you are self-medicating with, too!
Posted by Damon4130 on October 6, 2003, at 19:27:36
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!! » MB, posted by Cam W. on January 7, 2002, at 13:21:14
You can extract hydrocodone, oxycodone, and codeine from drugs so you don't have to deal with nasty fillers or acetaminophen. And it's easy.
Posted by EscherDementian on October 10, 2003, at 1:03:49
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!!, posted by Damon4130 on October 6, 2003, at 19:27:36
> You can extract hydrocodone, oxycodone, and codeine from drugs so you don't have to deal with nasty fillers or acetaminophen. And it's easy.
Just came in on the end of this thread...
How does one extract from the fillers and acetaminophen?
Posted by KimberlyDi on October 10, 2003, at 13:01:54
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!!, posted by EscherDementian on October 10, 2003, at 1:03:49
Fillers were put in many of those drugs to make it harder for the drug users to separate and insert directly into a vein. What's a legit reason to separate?
KDi in Texas
> > You can extract hydrocodone, oxycodone, and codeine from drugs so you don't have to deal with nasty fillers or acetaminophen. And it's easy.
>
> Just came in on the end of this thread...
> How does one extract from the fillers and acetaminophen?
Posted by Viridis on October 10, 2003, at 22:54:34
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!!, posted by KimberlyDi on October 10, 2003, at 13:01:54
Presumably the idea is to avoid acetaminophen etc. if you don't need it, which is reasonable in theory if you're being prescribed the drug just for the opioids.
I don't know offhand what the separation process involves, but I can guess, and I expect it isn't quite as simple as is implied. If it involves certain solvents etc., it could be very dangerous for someone without the necessary skills. I could be wrong, but in any case, it would be difficult for the average person to achieve reliable dosing. I wouldn't recommend it.
Besides acetaminophen (which some people have a legitimate reason to avoid, in which case there are versions of hydrocodone, at least, that are mixed with ibuprophen or aspirin), I'm also skeptical that the other fillers (besides maybe caffeine) are particularly "nasty".
Posted by EscherDementian on October 10, 2003, at 23:46:45
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!! » KimberlyDi, posted by Viridis on October 10, 2003, at 22:54:34
Thank you Viridis.
I am one who has to avoid acetaminophen among other things because of possible compromise to my liver. i am also fatally allergic to aspirin.
It has been a frustration from time to time over the years, when, in an emergengy room or immed. care clinic i am looked at suspiciously as a narcotic seeker when i give above info. about myself. Usually i take the codiene-acetaminophen tabs they offer and don't bother to say anything anymore, until i can see my own MD.
i've learned to choose and quantify my poisons for minimal harm vs benefit.Sadly, the pain meds or opiate derivs that are not mixed with acetaminophen have a bad reputation because of their use by narcotic seekers, and it makes it difficult to get them perscribed for the situations/patients they were intended for, in an immediate-care but non critical trauma.
OK, i'm done ragging.
Escher
Oh- P.S.
Yippieee, Media and Mr. Rush Limbaugh.
okay, NOW i'm done ragging.
Posted by Viridis on October 11, 2003, at 3:50:21
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!! » Viridis, posted by EscherDementian on October 10, 2003, at 23:46:45
Hi Escher,
I have a bad reaction to acetaminophen (rash etc.) so when I occasionally need pain meds I simply state this and request Vicoprofen (hydrocodone + ibuprophen). I've never had any problem, and have received several prescriptions for this mix.
Tramadol (Ultram) or Darvon might also be viable alternatives, although I've never tried them. My experience is that if you state a genuine allergy to a med, doctors take it seriously. In other words, don't just say you're "sensitive" etc. -- write down that you're allergic.
I just went through this with a dentist who was insistent on prescribing Vicodin or Darvocet (both contain acetaminophen). I said very definitely that I'm allergic to acetaminophen so would not take these meds. As soon as I said "allergy" she changed her tone very quickly and asked if ibuprophen was OK. I said yes, and got Vicoprofen instead.
If you have a real allergy and state it in these terms, doctors seem to respond. And, you may have to stand your ground and insist on the right pain meds. That's what I've done and it's worked.
Posted by Viridis on October 11, 2003, at 4:13:22
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!! » KimberlyDi, posted by Viridis on October 10, 2003, at 22:54:34
I checked out the "separation" technique for isolating opioids from other analgesics like acetaminophen. I won't post details here, but (even though I was wrong about dangerous solvents), it really doesn't appear safe. If you're just doing it to remove acetaminophen etc., you could easily get it wrong unless you're an experienced chemist. If you're doing it to get high (using lots of pills) you might poison youself. And, if you're using a painkiller that contains caffeine, you could wind up gettting a concentrated dose of that from multiple pills, since the method employed concentrates caffeine as well as opioids.
Again, this approach seems risky unless you're a skilled chemist.
Posted by EscherDementian on October 11, 2003, at 16:34:54
In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!!, posted by Damon4130 on October 6, 2003, at 19:27:36
Well that is definately more trouble than i would be interested in. I realize that i came in at the end of a long thread, but i was merely curious when i read this post:
>>Posted by Damon4130 on October 6, 2003, at 19:27:36
>>In reply to Re: careful of the acetaminophen level!! » MB, posted by Cam W. on January 7, 2002, at 13:21:14>>You can extract hydrocodone, oxycodone, and codeine from drugs so you don't have to deal with nasty fillers or acetaminophen. And it's easy.
Hmmm?
And yes, although it's well documented that my allergic reaction to aspirin and that branch of meds is anaphylactic shock, as are the results of my liver biopsy and exploratory surgery, i don't believe that documentation is either available or read by MDs in the emergency/immed.care clinics. Strangely enough, even when i've been there before, OR when i've suggested my own MD be phoned. As you said, if i have the energy to make a stand after getting the 'narcotic alert heroism' attitude, i will, but i so rarely need trauma pain meds, and my own MD is just a 'next business day' phonecall away. i don't think anyone has the patience to deal with timely resistances or feeling like they're suspected of something scummy, when they are in pain and just want to go home.
But thanks for your encouraging backbone!
Next time i need stitches, get overwhelmed by a headache, or smash a finger, i'll no doubt remember your encouragement.
Thanks for the research, too. Doesn't sound like an 'easy' that someone in pain should be attempting. Perhaps Damon4130 had something else in mind, or should have been posting on 'PsychoBabble Substance Use' ;-) ?To each his own,
Escher
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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