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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 9:51:25
Hey, I know a couple people out there have taken buprenorphine by the sublingual route. I wanted to ask a few questions, because lately I've been thinking it might be easier to get it this way (by ordering from Europe -- gotta look into the red tape that would be required, tho') than having to get the injectable solution in the US (using this intranasally is a real PITA, plus pharmacies always have to special-order it).
So my questions are:
1. How long does it take for the effect of the SL tabs to kick in after you take them? (It takes almost exactly one hour after I take it IN.)
2. How long do the effects last when it's taken SL?
3. How do you compute the approximate SL dose from the injected (IM) dose? (I'm going on the assumption that the IN route requires about the same dose as IM injection. This seems consistent, since the recommended IM doses are about the same as what I use.)Thanks very much to anybody who can answer this one!
-elizabeth
Posted by cisco on December 15, 2001, at 23:02:57
In reply to sublingual buprenorphine tabs (Subutex, Temgesic), posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 9:51:25
Elizabeth:
Check out this Aussie site for an excellent description of Bup. It is the one that helped me gain understanding, like how to USE the darn tabs.
http://healthanswers.telstra.com/drugdata/appco/00021322.asp
Note: If you go there, Be sure to scroll down. The Bup info is there, below the bottom of the page, believe me!
Cisco
Posted by Elizabeth on December 16, 2001, at 23:08:38
In reply to Re: sublingual buprenorphine tabs (Subutex, Temgesic), posted by cisco on December 15, 2001, at 23:02:57
Thanks for the link to the Australian PI. It doesn't really give dose equivalents, which is the main problem for me; that might just take some experimenting. (I'm taking 0.3 mg IN, which I think is about equivalent to 0.3 mg IM.)
You seem to know a lot of useful stuff, and I don't know too many other people who take bupe. Care to chat over email? (I'm [email protected])
-elizabeth
Posted by cisco on December 17, 2001, at 1:38:58
In reply to Re: sublingual buprenorphine tabs (Subutex, Temgesic), posted by Elizabeth on December 16, 2001, at 23:08:38
Dear Elizabeth:
I know my last post didn't answer your specific question, but after searching far and wide on the internet about Bup, that site offered the most complete drug summary I've found on the subject.
By the way, I found Psyco-Babble when Google spit up one of YOUR Bup questions. I was shocked to actually find someone using Opioids legitimately for Depression! I have been here ever since. This is a very good site!
Yes, the question of dosage is elusive. The French seem to have done much work with Buph, perhaps they have the answer.
Are You taking the entire ampuole intranasaly to achieve the 0.3mg dose? Some people administer the liquid via syringe sublingualy: Spraying it under their tongue. I will try snorting the tabs next time I go on the Bup. Seems like such a "Druggie" way to dose, though. Grind it up. Cut some lines. Snort away. LOL.
My guess is that the information you seek has yet to be researched to any degree.
I would enjoy exchanging E-Mails with you. Your level of knowledge on many subjects intrigues me, Very much! Unfortunately, I can only receive mail, I can't send. I want to blame the problem on the bankruptcy of @home. I'll make an effort to get it fixed. Its essential these days.for what its worth, My e-mail addy is: [email protected]
Onward and Adios,
Cisco
Posted by Neal on December 17, 2001, at 2:22:50
In reply to sublingual buprenorphine tabs (Subutex, Temgesic), posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 9:51:25
Elizabeth,
I got Temgesic by way of overseas pharmacy, but the second time I tried it, it was seized by customs. You can get the Buprenex™ made into sublingual troches by a compounding pharmacy right here in the good old US of A.-Neal
Posted by Annie Z. on December 17, 2001, at 11:44:25
In reply to sublingual buprenorphine tabs (Subutex, Temgesic), posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 9:51:25
Sorry, I can’t answer any of your questions for you. If you don’t mind, I do have some questions for you though regarding buprenorphine administration. I am trying to find out is which way of administering bupe would give me the best results.
What method of administration did they use at McLean where the study or studies produced some extraordinary results for some people? One of the articles of the McLean Hospital studies says that they used the sublingual route of administration. Did they use the liquid or tablet form of the drug sublingually? Instead of administering the liquid form of bupe (which is the only form currently available in the U.S.), perhaps the hospital got sublingual tablets from Europe; or had a lab convert the liquid into the pill form. Anyone know?How effective is the sublingual pill, which is currently available in Europe? Do you, Elizabeth, or anyone from Europe know?
As far as taking bupe sublingually, I believe that you (Elizabeth) said that taking the liquid medication sublingually is an ineffective way to take this medication because you tend to swallow some of it, and thus do not get the benefit of the full dose.
In another one of your posts, Elizabeth, you said taking bupe intranasally is difficult because of the strange procedure of taking the medication out of the vial with a syringe, and then breathing it up your nose. I would think for privacy reasons, you would probably need to find a restroom four times per day to administer this medication – very inconvenient.
Perhaps bupe could be administered as a shot? This probably wouldn’t be better than taking it intranasally, since you definitely would need some privacy to administer it this way.
Anyone have any comments on the above paragraphs or about buprenorphine administration in general?Also, several last questions, Elizabeth. How are you doing on your current dose of buprenorphine? How much medication do you take? Can’t you take more of it to increase its effectiveness? What have you heard about the sublingual tablet of buprenorphine coming out? When are these tablet coming out?
Finally, I am very interested in buprenorphine. I've read all of the several medical articles on bupe and depression, I've done searches on usenet and the internet, etc. Once,I even did a search +Elizabeth +buprenorphine on all the different time periods on this site. So I would be interested in the e-mail dialogue that you may have with Cisco. Could you either publish it on this bulletin board or send me a copy at [email protected].
Thank you in advance to anyone who can give me more information on buprenorphine administration.
Posted by Elizabeth on December 17, 2001, at 23:29:21
In reply to Re: sublingual buprenorphine tabs (Subutex, Temgesic), posted by Annie Z. on December 17, 2001, at 11:44:25
> What method of administration did they use at McLean where the study or studies produced some extraordinary results for some people?
They used the formulation currently available in the U.S., the injectable solution (Buprenex). Some of the subjects used it intranasally, as I do, and others used it sublingually.
> How effective is the sublingual pill, which is currently available in Europe? Do you, Elizabeth, or anyone from Europe know?
I don't know; I'm interested in trying it, though.
> In another one of your posts, Elizabeth, you said taking bupe intranasally is difficult because of the strange procedure of taking the medication out of the vial with a syringe, and then breathing it up your nose.
It's not just that: you have to lie down for a couple minutes and let it drip to the back of your nose (with your head tilted back). I believe that this part could be avoided if it were available in a metered-dose nasal inhaler (like Stadol NS).
> I would think for privacy reasons, you would probably need to find a restroom four times per day to administer this medication – very inconvenient.
The midday dose is the only one that's problematic. (I take it three times a day, not four, BTW.)
> Perhaps bupe could be administered as a shot?
Sure, the solution available here in the US is intended for IM or IV injection. But we're talking three times a day, at least -- I'm not sure if there are health hazards from receiving IM injections that often, but there definitely can be problems with frequent IV use!
> This probably wouldn’t be better than taking it intranasally, since you definitely would need some privacy to administer it this way.
Ahh, but you wouldn't need a place to lie down. That's the real challenging part.
> Also, several last questions, Elizabeth. How are you doing on your current dose of buprenorphine?
Pretty well. I wish I could find something that worked in a more sustained way (like an AD) so I wasn't always waking up depressed and worrying about when I have to take the next dose.
> How much medication do you take?
0.3 mg (1 mL) t.i.d. I'm also taking Effexor 75 mg/day (will be increasing it to 150 mg tomorrow or the next day).
> What have you heard about the sublingual tablet of buprenorphine coming out? When are these tablet coming out?
As soon as they're FDA-approved for maintenance treatment of addiction, is the latest thing I've heard. I don't think that bupe will be effective for people with heavy heroin habits, but for people with milder habits it could be a good alternative to methadone.
> ...I would be interested in the e-mail dialogue that you may have with Cisco. Could you either publish it on this bulletin board or send me a copy at [email protected].
If we discuss anything about bupe, I'll relay it to you -- how's that? (I prefer for private conversations to be, well, private.)
> Thank you in advance to anyone who can give me more information on buprenorphine administration.
Sure, I hope I've helped clarify things for you.
-elizabeth
Posted by Annie Z. on December 19, 2001, at 17:19:02
In reply to Re: sublingual buprenorphine tabs (Subutex, Temgesic) » Annie Z., posted by Elizabeth on December 17, 2001, at 23:29:21
Thanks again, Elizabeth, for your post. Your have continue to post insights and information that I can't find anywhere else. You've been an excellent resource for me in my search to alleviate my depression.
This is the end of the thread.
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