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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Else on August 1, 2001, at 19:37:02
I've been told by a very arrogant shrink once that ADD is something only little kids have. Granted not all medical professionals agree with him but where I live it is quite difficult for an adult to get treatment for ADD without being perceived as a vile and disgusting drug-seeker.
Although I have never been diagnosed, I strongly believe I have ADD based on what I have read and tests I have taken. My current psychiatrist seems to be open to this diagnosis, but is still uncertain. Because it is so hard to get proper treatment for ADD, I convinced myself that my anxiety was responsible for my impulsiveness, forgetfullness, the fact that I act before I think, say things I shouldn't, etc... And it's true that GAD can cause similar symptoms to some extent. But now I am on Klonopin (2mg a day) and do not feel anxious at all. Yet I keep screwing up over and over and over. I cannot keep a job. All these stupid jobs everybody else seems capable of doing easily I just can't do. For instance, right now I am in some work re-insertion program. I work in a store. Today I was supposed to do inventary and I screwed up so badly. I got distracted all the time, had to start over, made mistake after mistake... And it's always like that. No mattter what job I do, I always seem to forget something, misunderstand the instructions and screw up in some way, even after I've been there for months. So today I did screw up and I am so depressed now because I figure, "If I can't do work that simple well there goes any chance I have at being a productive member of society". It's so humiliating that I can't do these things when every one else can. Nobody understands. They think I don't try hard enough but I try so hard and it doesn't work. I'm so sick of it. I've quit jobs because I was so sick of getting yelled at continuously because of all the things I forgot to do and all the mistakes I made. I've been fired repeatedly, of course. That had a lot to do with my depression. Well I took it easy for a while and felt much better about myself but now I am trying to re-enter the workforce and it's happenning again. I feel like I'm doomed to be on welfare for the rest of my life. But I'm smart and I don't want to spend everyday of my pathetic existence watching television from dusk till dawn. Right now I am on Wellbutrin which is supposed to help but really isn't helping at all. I know stimulants would help because I've taken them illegally. They clear up my mind. It's like my brain on Windex. But it's just not going to happen. I don't even dare ask my doctor. I feel like all I can do is resign myself or order drugs from overseas and spend 75% of my stupid government cheque on them and I probably wouldn't have enough anyway. I can't do that. I am so discouraged. I am so sick of being such a f***-up. Is this ADD? Can something be done? Are there other antidepressants I could take that would help and that my doctor wouldn't find so objectionable (not Effexor, I tried it). I just don't know what to do. I want to give up completely. Why even try if it's always going to be like this? Having a job is supposed to make you feel better about yourself but all it does is make me feel worthless.
Posted by SalArmy4me on August 1, 2001, at 21:53:14
In reply to If it's not ADD then why do I ALWAYS SCREW up?, posted by Else on August 1, 2001, at 19:37:02
Desipramine is one such drug:
Wilens, Timothy E. MD et al. Six-Week, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of Desipramine for Adult Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. American Journal of Psychiatry. 153(9):1147-1153, September 1996:
"...The magnitude of the reduction in ADHD symptoms with desipramine is similar to that reported in adults with ADHD who received robust doses of methylphenidate. Like methylphenidate, desipramine treatment resulted in significant reductions in the broad categories of inattention, impulsivity, and hyperactivity. The current findings with desipramine, together with previously reported findings with psychostimulants, support the notion that pharmacological agents effective in reducing ADHD symptoms appear to operate through their catecholaminergic properties..."
Posted by MM on August 2, 2001, at 2:29:58
In reply to Re: Desipramine » Else, posted by SalArmy4me on August 1, 2001, at 21:53:14
Zo, I'm so sorry. I SORT OF know how you feel. I'm the spacey, or what I feel is stupid one. I "don't have common sense". I locked my keys inside my car so many times it's not even funny anymore. I think I have some kind of ADD thing too (maybe mild, maybe not at all) but that's the hard part, is figuring it out. In the thread above about ADD w/out hyper. someone said that Sudafed feels a lot like a stimulant to them. Maybe you could try it until you can convince your pdoc to let you try a stim? It seems like there's no good reason why a pdoc shouldn't let you try one, but "I'm no expert".
Posted by Elizabeth on August 2, 2001, at 8:53:42
In reply to If it's not ADD then why do I ALWAYS SCREW up?, posted by Else on August 1, 2001, at 19:37:02
Else,
I think it's possible that attention problems can be secondary to mood or anxiety disorders. That doesn't necessarily mean that your attention will improve on antidepressants or anxiolytics, though (as you've discovered).
I don't think it's as hopeless as you seem to feel it is. You did say that your doctor is open to the idea of adult ADD. Did you have the same problems as a child?
-elizabeth
Posted by Mitch on August 2, 2001, at 9:54:22
In reply to Re: Desipramine » Else, posted by SalArmy4me on August 1, 2001, at 21:53:14
> Desipramine is one such drug:
>
> Wilens, Timothy E. MD et al. Six-Week, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of Desipramine for Adult Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. American Journal of Psychiatry. 153(9):1147-1153, September 1996:
>
> "...The magnitude of the reduction in ADHD symptoms with desipramine is similar to that reported in adults with ADHD who received robust doses of methylphenidate. Like methylphenidate, desipramine treatment resulted in significant reductions in the broad categories of inattention, impulsivity, and hyperactivity. The current findings with desipramine, together with previously reported findings with psychostimulants, support the notion that pharmacological agents effective in reducing ADHD symptoms appear to operate through their catecholaminergic properties..."I tried desipramine for my ADHD and it worked GREAT! But..it made me too jittery and a little hypomanic. It might not in your case. It worked better for ADHD then any other AD otherwise.
Mitch
Posted by Hattree on August 2, 2001, at 12:21:39
In reply to If it's not ADD then why do I ALWAYS SCREW up?, posted by Else on August 1, 2001, at 19:37:02
After one former shrink called me a "little chemist” I decided to to describe my symptoms using catchphrases I've read in books on ADD, but avoid actual mention of ADD or stimulants. Make the doctor think its HIS idea.
I got fired from more than my share of crappy jobs. I was one hopeless cashier and waitress. But when I do something I like well enough (in my case graphic design) and I'm not bored, I do a better job and my good qualities at least partially make up for my inattention.
Its a bitch though. Good luck getting the meds you need. And remember you aren't the only one making mistakes.
> I've been told by a very arrogant shrink once that ADD is something only little kids have. Granted not all medical professionals agree with him but where I live it is quite difficult for an adult to get treatment for ADD without being perceived as a vile and disgusting drug-seeker.
> Although I have never been diagnosed, I strongly believe I have ADD based on what I have read and tests I have taken. My current psychiatrist seems to be open to this diagnosis, but is still uncertain. Because it is so hard to get proper treatment for ADD, I convinced myself that my anxiety was responsible for my impulsiveness, forgetfullness, the fact that I act before I think, say things I shouldn't, etc... And it's true that GAD can cause similar symptoms to some extent. But now I am on Klonopin (2mg a day) and do not feel anxious at all. Yet I keep screwing up over and over and over. I cannot keep a job. All these stupid jobs everybody else seems capable of doing easily I just can't do. For instance, right now I am in some work re-insertion program. I work in a store. Today I was supposed to do inventary and I screwed up so badly. I got distracted all the time, had to start over, made mistake after mistake... And it's always like that. No mattter what job I do, I always seem to forget something, misunderstand the instructions and screw up in some way, even after I've been there for months. So today I did screw up and I am so depressed now because I figure, "If I can't do work that simple well there goes any chance I have at being a productive member of society". It's so humiliating that I can't do these things when every one else can. Nobody understands. They think I don't try hard enough but I try so hard and it doesn't work. I'm so sick of it. I've quit jobs because I was so sick of getting yelled at continuously because of all the things I forgot to do and all the mistakes I made. I've been fired repeatedly, of course. That had a lot to do with my depression. Well I took it easy for a while and felt much better about myself but now I am trying to re-enter the workforce and it's happenning again. I feel like I'm doomed to be on welfare for the rest of my life. But I'm smart and I don't want to spend everyday of my pathetic existence watching television from dusk till dawn. Right now I am on Wellbutrin which is supposed to help but really isn't helping at all. I know stimulants would help because I've taken them illegally. They clear up my mind. It's like my brain on Windex. But it's just not going to happen. I don't even dare ask my doctor. I feel like all I can do is resign myself or order drugs from overseas and spend 75% of my stupid government cheque on them and I probably wouldn't have enough anyway. I can't do that. I am so discouraged. I am so sick of being such a f***-up. Is this ADD? Can something be done? Are there other antidepressants I could take that would help and that my doctor wouldn't find so objectionable (not Effexor, I tried it). I just don't know what to do. I want to give up completely. Why even try if it's always going to be like this? Having a job is supposed to make you feel better about yourself but all it does is make me feel worthless.
Posted by Elizabeth on August 2, 2001, at 15:17:16
In reply to Re: If it's not ADD then why do I ALWAYS SCREW up?, posted by Hattree on August 2, 2001, at 12:21:39
> I got fired from more than my share of crappy jobs. I was one hopeless cashier and waitress. But when I do something I like well enough (in my case graphic design) and I'm not bored, I do a better job and my good qualities at least partially make up for my inattention.
I think that's a common feature of ADHD: difficulty focussing on boring, repetitive tasks. A lot of people with ADHD say that they need a personal assistant or something. (I don't have one myself, but my Palm Pilot does seem somewhat helpful. < g >)
-elizabeth
Posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 21:25:27
In reply to Re: If it's not ADD then why do I ALWAYS SCREW up? » Hattree, posted by Elizabeth on August 2, 2001, at 15:17:16
But that's what puzzles me: How easy is it to focus on boring repetitive jobs if you don't have ADD? Is it simple? I doubt it. I would think it would be difficult for anyone althoug probably more so for people with ADD. It's true that others don't seem to find it that hard.
The other thing that makes me wonder is the fact that I get so tired. Much more so than other people my age. This has been the case since adolescence.Admitedly I am quite skinny and have poor muscle tone but I really can't keep up with others my age (26), I am too tired. This makes me think depression is involved. I might have ADD + chronic atypical depression + generalized anxiety disorder (+ borderline personnality disorder + social phobia, etc...) But I think, somehow, it has got to be simpler than that. I want to get to the root of the problem so that I can deal with it adequately but I have such a hard time figuring out what the problem is in the first place. I have read a lot of books about psychiatry and that's a double edged sword. I think if I could just show up there and describe my symptoms without any kind of bias it would be so much easier. Anyway, right now I am undeniably depressed and I wasn't last week. Maybe there's too much happening. Anyhow, thanks to all of you for your replies.
> > I got fired from more than my share of crappy jobs. I was one hopeless cashier and waitress. But when I do something I like well enough (in my case graphic design) and I'm not bored, I do a better job and my good qualities at least partially make up for my inattention.
>
> I think that's a common feature of ADHD: difficulty focussing on boring, repetitive tasks. A lot of people with ADHD say that they need a personal assistant or something. (I don't have one myself, but my Palm Pilot does seem somewhat helpful. < g >)
>
> -elizabeth
Posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 21:28:19
In reply to Re: Desipramine » Else, posted by SalArmy4me on August 1, 2001, at 21:53:14
I read about desipramine but it seems to have a nasty side-effects profile. My doctor would probably object to it since I once tried to kill myself with amytriptiline. But thanks for the suggestion.
> Desipramine is one such drug:
>
> Wilens, Timothy E. MD et al. Six-Week, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of Desipramine for Adult Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. American Journal of Psychiatry. 153(9):1147-1153, September 1996:
>
> "...The magnitude of the reduction in ADHD symptoms with desipramine is similar to that reported in adults with ADHD who received robust doses of methylphenidate. Like methylphenidate, desipramine treatment resulted in significant reductions in the broad categories of inattention, impulsivity, and hyperactivity. The current findings with desipramine, together with previously reported findings with psychostimulants, support the notion that pharmacological agents effective in reducing ADHD symptoms appear to operate through their catecholaminergic properties..."
Posted by MM on August 2, 2001, at 22:00:52
In reply to Re: Desipramine » SalArmy4me, posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 21:28:19
Sorry ELSE, I had just replied to Zo on another thread, and I was pretty tired when I posted that. heh, jeez, I must look pretty out of it to all of you. I'm going to start just lurking I think.
Posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 22:25:56
In reply to Where did I get Zo?? » Else, posted by MM on August 2, 2001, at 22:00:52
Well, I guess your post makes more sense to me now. No problem.
> Sorry ELSE, I had just replied to Zo on another thread, and I was pretty tired when I posted that. heh, jeez, I must look pretty out of it to all of you. I'm going to start just lurking I think.
Posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 22:35:25
In reply to Re: If it's not ADD then why do I ALWAYS SCREW up?, posted by Hattree on August 2, 2001, at 12:21:39
Hi Hattree,
That's pretty much it. I am a lousy cashier. Some would say "So what? It's a stupid job anyway." But if I can't even do a "stupid" job what hope is there for me? I am smart and curious. I would love to do more interresting work and would probably be better at it. I am better at problem solving than I am at routine work. But I have gotten rejections from university the last two times I applied. And even if I got in, how would I pay for it, a stupid job? I feel so hopeless now. I am waiting for my doctor's phone call tomorrow. I have to ask him for a shot at Ritalin or something. I know there is nothing wrong with that. It's just most people don't seem to agree with me.
> After one former shrink called me a "little chemist” I decided to to describe my symptoms using catchphrases I've read in books on ADD, but avoid actual mention of ADD or stimulants. Make the doctor think its HIS idea.
>
> I got fired from more than my share of crappy jobs. I was one hopeless cashier and waitress. But when I do something I like well enough (in my case graphic design) and I'm not bored, I do a better job and my good qualities at least partially make up for my inattention.
>
> Its a bitch though. Good luck getting the meds you need. And remember you aren't the only one making mistakes.
>
>
> > I've been told by a very arrogant shrink once that ADD is something only little kids have. Granted not all medical professionals agree with him but where I live it is quite difficult for an adult to get treatment for ADD without being perceived as a vile and disgusting drug-seeker.
> > Although I have never been diagnosed, I strongly believe I have ADD based on what I have read and tests I have taken. My current psychiatrist seems to be open to this diagnosis, but is still uncertain. Because it is so hard to get proper treatment for ADD, I convinced myself that my anxiety was responsible for my impulsiveness, forgetfullness, the fact that I act before I think, say things I shouldn't, etc... And it's true that GAD can cause similar symptoms to some extent. But now I am on Klonopin (2mg a day) and do not feel anxious at all. Yet I keep screwing up over and over and over. I cannot keep a job. All these stupid jobs everybody else seems capable of doing easily I just can't do. For instance, right now I am in some work re-insertion program. I work in a store. Today I was supposed to do inventary and I screwed up so badly. I got distracted all the time, had to start over, made mistake after mistake... And it's always like that. No mattter what job I do, I always seem to forget something, misunderstand the instructions and screw up in some way, even after I've been there for months. So today I did screw up and I am so depressed now because I figure, "If I can't do work that simple well there goes any chance I have at being a productive member of society". It's so humiliating that I can't do these things when every one else can. Nobody understands. They think I don't try hard enough but I try so hard and it doesn't work. I'm so sick of it. I've quit jobs because I was so sick of getting yelled at continuously because of all the things I forgot to do and all the mistakes I made. I've been fired repeatedly, of course. That had a lot to do with my depression. Well I took it easy for a while and felt much better about myself but now I am trying to re-enter the workforce and it's happenning again. I feel like I'm doomed to be on welfare for the rest of my life. But I'm smart and I don't want to spend everyday of my pathetic existence watching television from dusk till dawn. Right now I am on Wellbutrin which is supposed to help but really isn't helping at all. I know stimulants would help because I've taken them illegally. They clear up my mind. It's like my brain on Windex. But it's just not going to happen. I don't even dare ask my doctor. I feel like all I can do is resign myself or order drugs from overseas and spend 75% of my stupid government cheque on them and I probably wouldn't have enough anyway. I can't do that. I am so discouraged. I am so sick of being such a f***-up. Is this ADD? Can something be done? Are there other antidepressants I could take that would help and that my doctor wouldn't find so objectionable (not Effexor, I tried it). I just don't know what to do. I want to give up completely. Why even try if it's always going to be like this? Having a job is supposed to make you feel better about yourself but all it does is make me feel worthless.
Posted by Elizabeth on August 3, 2001, at 0:22:24
In reply to Re: If it's not ADD then why do I ALWAYS SCREW up? » Elizabeth, posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 21:25:27
> But that's what puzzles me: How easy is it to focus on boring repetitive jobs if you don't have ADD? Is it simple? I doubt it.
It's a lot easier than it is for someone who has ADD.
> The other thing that makes me wonder is the fact that I get so tired. Much more so than other people my age. This has been the case since adolescence.
Teenagers and young adults often have an amazing ability to spend a lot of time sleeping, actually. But the daytime fatigue could indicate that you're not getting restful sleep.
> Admitedly I am quite skinny and have poor muscle tone but I really can't keep up with others my age (26), I am too tired. This makes me think depression is involved.
Have you tried exercising? It might just be that you're not in as good shape as other people your age.
> I want to get to the root of the problem so that I can deal with it adequately but I have such a hard time figuring out what the problem is in the first place.
That's not surprising: we don't really have that much knowledge about the "root causes" of psych disorders.
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on August 3, 2001, at 0:26:46
In reply to Re: Desipramine » SalArmy4me, posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 21:28:19
> I read about desipramine but it seems to have a nasty side-effects profile. My doctor would probably object to it since I once tried to kill myself with amytriptiline. But thanks for the suggestion.
I've been taking desipramine for a couple weeks. I'm not convinced it's helpful for attention problems, but its side effects are pretty mild even though my serum level came back high. In general it's one of the most tolerable of the tricyclics.
BTW about the stupid job thing: it might just be that, because you are smart and curious, you would do well at an interesting job even if you have a hard time with dull jobs.
-elizabeth
This is the end of the thread.
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