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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kid47 on July 13, 2001, at 11:49:55
Hello. In August of 1999 I had what was called a severe immuno-response (allergic reaction I guess) after eating a large amount of catfish. I had never had a problem with fish before but had to be hospitalized after eating this particular catfish. My entire body swelled up & my blood pressure was dangerously high. I was not given the standard treatment of epinepherine because of the high blood pressure, but was instead given Mega amounts of IV Benadryl. After being released from the hospital I was told to continue oral Benadryl @ 4 times the normal insert suggested dosage!!! I was also started on a steroid pack.(Starting at like 6 pills a day, then reducing dose by 1 or 2 pills a day till I finished the pack in about a week) During that time I had what I now realize was a panic attack. I was told it was probably just a reaction to the meds & to reduce the Benadryl by half. After 10 days I was allowed to stop medication. I never felt quite "right" after this expeience & on Christmas of that same year I was hospitalized with severe depression & anxiety. Later this dx was changed to Bipolar II. Previous to these events I had never had a severe physical or mental illness. I have read that benadryl & steroids can both effect brain chemistry. Any thoughts on this? Possibly a combination of the meds & the trauma of the illness triggered my mental breakdown? Any input to these theories would be greatly appreciated. Sorry about the length . Thanx In Advance
kid
PS- I wasn't sure which board to post this on so redirect it if necessary Dr. B
Posted by kid47 on July 14, 2001, at 21:22:02
In reply to Steroids, Benadryl, iIlness=Depression?, posted by kid47 on July 13, 2001, at 11:49:55
Hello. In August of 1999, at the age of 46, I had what was called a severe immuno-response (allergic reaction I guess) after eating a large amount of catfish. I had never had a problem with fish before but had to be hospitalized after eating this particular catfish. My entire body swelled up & my blood pressure was dangerously high. I was not given the standard treatment of epinepherine because of the high blood pressure, but was instead given Mega amounts of IV Benadryl & some other drug to lower blood pressure. After being released from the hospital I was told to continue oral Benadryl @ 4 times the normal insert suggested dosage!!! I was also started on a steroid pack.(Starting at like 6 pills a day, then reducing dose by 1 or 2 pills a day till I finished the pack in about a week) During that time I had what I now realize was a panic attack. I was told it was probably just a reaction to the meds & to reduce the Benadryl by half. After 10 days I was allowed to stop medication. I never felt quite "right" after this expeience & on Christmas of that same year I was hospitalized with severe depression & anxiety. Later this dx was changed (incorrectly I think)to Bipolar II. Previous to these events I had never had a severe physical or mental illness. I have read that benadryl & steroids can both effect brain chemistry. Any thoughts on this? Possibly a combination of the meds & the trauma of the allergic reaction triggered my mental breakdown? Any input to these theories would be greatly appreciated. Sorry about the length . Thanx In Advance
kid
PS- I wasn't sure which board to post this on so redirect it if necessary Dr. B
Posted by Mitch on July 15, 2001, at 11:33:44
In reply to Medication induced depression-need opinions, posted by kid47 on July 14, 2001, at 21:22:02
kid47,
That is a fascinating story. I am diagnosed BPII and I am very sensitive to steroids. I wonder if you were taking steroids at the time you were hospitalized for the depression/anxiety? In my case I was having systemic reaction to molds causing hives. Had to go to ER and was given a MAX dose of prednisone for four days-it stopped the hives right away BUT it set off a really nasty mixed depression/agitation episode that took MONTHS to settle down. I doubt if the Benadryl set off much of it-but the steroids definitely. It could have definitely triggered a first bipolar episode for you. That is so odd though for your age at 47. I am 41, but have been plagued with mood problems since I was 12.
I wonder if you have an underlying medical condition that has not been found out yet that is causing it and you truly aren't BP??Mitch
> Hello. In August of 1999, at the age of 46, I had what was called a severe immuno-response (allergic reaction I guess) after eating a large amount of catfish. I had never had a problem with fish before but had to be hospitalized after eating this particular catfish. My entire body swelled up & my blood pressure was dangerously high. I was not given the standard treatment of epinepherine because of the high blood pressure, but was instead given Mega amounts of IV Benadryl & some other drug to lower blood pressure. After being released from the hospital I was told to continue oral Benadryl @ 4 times the normal insert suggested dosage!!! I was also started on a steroid pack.(Starting at like 6 pills a day, then reducing dose by 1 or 2 pills a day till I finished the pack in about a week) During that time I had what I now realize was a panic attack. I was told it was probably just a reaction to the meds & to reduce the Benadryl by half. After 10 days I was allowed to stop medication. I never felt quite "right" after this expeience & on Christmas of that same year I was hospitalized with severe depression & anxiety. Later this dx was changed (incorrectly I think)to Bipolar II. Previous to these events I had never had a severe physical or mental illness. I have read that benadryl & steroids can both effect brain chemistry. Any thoughts on this? Possibly a combination of the meds & the trauma of the allergic reaction triggered my mental breakdown? Any input to these theories would be greatly appreciated. Sorry about the length . Thanx In Advance
>
> kid
>
> PS- I wasn't sure which board to post this on so redirect it if necessary Dr. B
Posted by Elizabeth on July 15, 2001, at 17:17:50
In reply to Medication induced depression-need opinions, posted by kid47 on July 14, 2001, at 21:22:02
> Hello. In August of 1999, at the age of 46, I had what was called a severe immuno-response (allergic reaction I guess) after eating a large amount of catfish. I had never had a problem with fish before but had to be hospitalized after eating this particular catfish.
Some people just have weird food allergies like that. Often, it runs in families.
> My entire body swelled up & my blood pressure was dangerously high.
That's odd. Usually anaphylaxis is accompanied by dangerously low BP. It's a good reason not to want to use epinephrine, though. Do you recall what your BP was?
> I was not given the standard treatment of epinepherine because of the high blood pressure, but was instead given Mega amounts of IV Benadryl & some other drug to lower blood pressure.
Yeah, under those circumstances, Benadryl seems like the way to go. OTOH it could trigger anticholinergic toxicity (dryness, fever, delirium, etc.) which would be bad.
> After being released from the hospital I was told to continue oral Benadryl @ 4 times the normal insert suggested dosage!!!
FWIW, the recommended doses of over-the-counter drugs can often be exceeded without any problem. (That doesn't mean you should do it indiscriminately, of course, but if a doctor says to go ahead and take more, it's probably ok.
> I was also started on a steroid pack.(Starting at like 6 pills a day, then reducing dose by 1 or 2 pills a day till I finished the pack in about a week) During that time I had what I now realize was a panic attack. I was told it was probably just a reaction to the meds & to reduce the Benadryl by half.
It might have been the steroids, actually. They can cause agitation. Unfortunately, if you're taking a high dose you really do need to taper it slowly, since they suppress your immune system.
> I have read that benadryl & steroids can both effect brain chemistry. Any thoughts on this?
Sure. Steroids of the type you took (I'm assuming) mimic the action of cortisol, a hormone which is definitely psychoactive. I've heard of mood disorders (particularly, dysphoric hypomania) being triggered by steroids.
Benadryl is a CNS-active anticholinergic and antihistaminic drug. It can cause any number of centrally-mediated effects, including dysphoria in some people.
> Possibly a combination of the meds & the trauma of the allergic reaction triggered my mental breakdown?
That seems like a reasonable guess. Unfortunately, I don't know what to suggest in the way of dealing with it. Maybe you could get some tests to find out if your immune system is working correctly? I'd talk to a GP about it and possibly ask for a referral to a specialist.
Good luck with things. And welcome to psycho-babble.
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on July 15, 2001, at 17:20:19
In reply to Re: Medication induced depression-need opinions » kid47, posted by Mitch on July 15, 2001, at 11:33:44
> That is a fascinating story. I am diagnosed BPII and I am very sensitive to steroids.
That's totally reasonable. I knew a guy who had to take prednisone and didn't have bipolar d/o himself but did have a family history of BP, and he got hypomanic on the prednisone. The mixed mania you described sounds exactly like a typical steroid-associated mood disorder.
-elizabeth
Posted by susan C on July 15, 2001, at 19:08:24
In reply to Re: Medication induced depression-need opinions » Mitch, posted by Elizabeth on July 15, 2001, at 17:20:19
Hi, we had a discussion about OTC antihistamines and suicidial ideation earlier and I appreciate Elizabeth's comments, they were clear and to the point. One thing I think happens, is when the body is vulnerable and a drug is introduced, there is a 'cascade', where the body may have a little then it gets bigger and bigger so to say. That has happened to me. What type of md is good to see for evaluating if your immune system is working?
Posted by Mitch on July 16, 2001, at 10:48:16
In reply to Re: Medication induced depression-need opinions, posted by susan C on July 15, 2001, at 19:08:24
Susan C,
Well, I think an immunologist. When I had the severe allergy situation with the hives and the prednisone I didn't know what was causing it at the time-then I went to see an allergist/immunologist. Got the "pin-tests" done and found the problem. I now take shots once a month and I am symptom free and don't need antihistamines or steroids-THANK GOD! The thing that worries me though is that my Dad had rheumatoid arthritis (an immune problem-actually), and he got treated with prednisone for that and turned into a real bastard! I just hope I don't get rheumatoid....
What was the deal with antihistamines and suicidal ideation..just curious??
Mitch
> Hi, we had a discussion about OTC antihistamines and suicidial ideation earlier and I appreciate Elizabeth's comments, they were clear and to the point. One thing I think happens, is when the body is vulnerable and a drug is introduced, there is a 'cascade', where the body may have a little then it gets bigger and bigger so to say. That has happened to me. What type of md is good to see for evaluating if your immune system is working?
Posted by kid47 on July 16, 2001, at 12:44:27
In reply to Re: Medication induced depression-need opinions » kid47, posted by Mitch on July 15, 2001, at 11:33:44
Thanx for the responses. My anxiety induced hyper-vigilance dictates I impart a little more info. As standard procedure for a big baby back in 1953(I weighed 10lbs. + & I don't think my mother ever forgave me), my Thymus gland was irradiated in the mistaken belief it could prevent SIDS. 2 mos before my freak out I was having diffuculty swallowing & the feeling of something caught in my throat. This could be attributed to anxiety or the fact I suffer with acid reflux(GERD) but a battery of tests including a sonogram of my thyroid gland & Endoscope found nothing. I have read lots of info on this problem & despite several attempts at tx I still suffer with this. I have a sister who also had the radiation as a new born & she has had immuno related problems off & on most of her life. She has also been treated for depression. I'm not sure where I'm going with this but I have 3 other older siblings who did not have radiation of the Thymus & they are fine. Is this just the ravings of some lunatic (I also believe there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll) or is there some identifiable pathology going on. The docs all just attribute it to insanity. (They may be right!!!) Any thoughts? TIA
kid
> kid47,
>
> That is a fascinating story. I am diagnosed BPII and I am very sensitive to steroids. I wonder if you were taking steroids at the time you were hospitalized for the depression/anxiety? In my case I was having systemic reaction to molds causing hives. Had to go to ER and was given a MAX dose of prednisone for four days-it stopped the hives right away BUT it set off a really nasty mixed depression/agitation episode that took MONTHS to settle down. I doubt if the Benadryl set off much of it-but the steroids definitely. It could have definitely triggered a first bipolar episode for you. That is so odd though for your age at 47. I am 41, but have been plagued with mood problems since I was 12.
> I wonder if you have an underlying medical condition that has not been found out yet that is causing it and you truly aren't BP??
>
> Mitch
>
> > Hello. In August of 1999, at the age of 46, I had what was called a severe immuno-response (allergic reaction I guess) after eating a large amount of catfish. I had never had a problem with fish before but had to be hospitalized after eating this particular catfish. My entire body swelled up & my blood pressure was dangerously high. I was not given the standard treatment of epinepherine because of the high blood pressure, but was instead given Mega amounts of IV Benadryl & some other drug to lower blood pressure. After being released from the hospital I was told to continue oral Benadryl @ 4 times the normal insert suggested dosage!!! I was also started on a steroid pack.(Starting at like 6 pills a day, then reducing dose by 1 or 2 pills a day till I finished the pack in about a week) During that time I had what I now realize was a panic attack. I was told it was probably just a reaction to the meds & to reduce the Benadryl by half. After 10 days I was allowed to stop medication. I never felt quite "right" after this expeience & on Christmas of that same year I was hospitalized with severe depression & anxiety. Later this dx was changed (incorrectly I think)to Bipolar II. Previous to these events I had never had a severe physical or mental illness. I have read that benadryl & steroids can both effect brain chemistry. Any thoughts on this? Possibly a combination of the meds & the trauma of the allergic reaction triggered my mental breakdown? Any input to these theories would be greatly appreciated. Sorry about the length . Thanx In Advance
> >
> > kid
> >
> > PS- I wasn't sure which board to post this on so redirect it if necessary Dr. B
Posted by Mitch on July 16, 2001, at 13:24:24
In reply to Re: More to the story..Mitch, Elizabeth, Susan C, posted by kid47 on July 16, 2001, at 12:44:27
kid47,
No problem! This is getting really weird, but I also have chronic "choking and difficulty swallowing problems" as well! It does tend to be worse and associated with anticipatory anxiety and panicky situations. The only thing I have found to relieve it effectively is Valium or carisoprodol, and to some extent Benadryl. I have found that SSRi or anti-psychotics tend to worsen it as well-which makes me think of a dopamine connection of sorts (is it really a *dystonia*??). I do have GERD as well, and I was reading somewhere that it could be inflammation due to reflux causing it.
I didn't realize that people's thymus gland was being irradiated to prevent ...SIDS? I hadn't thought that was an issue in the 50's.?? But, evidently you know it was irradiated, right??
That makes me want to go digging into my hospital records to find that out!! Before my last "freakout" two years ago (bad panic attacks), I had the same symptoms-except I did have a thyroid tumor and a resultant left-thyroidectomy.Anybody, out there... What is the role of the thymus gland in the brain/body?? Put your two cents in, I am really curious. Thanks
for the discussionMitch
> Thanx for the responses. My anxiety induced hyper-vigilance dictates I impart a little more info. As standard procedure for a big baby back in 1953(I weighed 10lbs. + & I don't think my mother ever forgave me), my Thymus gland was irradiated in the mistaken belief it could prevent SIDS. 2 mos before my freak out I was having diffuculty swallowing & the feeling of something caught in my throat. This could be attributed to anxiety or the fact I suffer with acid reflux(GERD) but a battery of tests including a sonogram of my thyroid gland & Endoscope found nothing. I have read lots of info on this problem & despite several attempts at tx I still suffer with this. I have a sister who also had the radiation as a new born & she has had immuno related problems off & on most of her life. She has also been treated for depression. I'm not sure where I'm going with this but I have 3 other older siblings who did not have radiation of the Thymus & they are fine. Is this just the ravings of some lunatic (I also believe there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll) or is there some identifiable pathology going on. The docs all just attribute it to insanity. (They may be right!!!) Any thoughts? TIA
>
Posted by susan C on July 17, 2001, at 15:18:03
In reply to Re: Medication induced depression-need opinions, posted by susan C on July 15, 2001, at 19:08:24
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010708/msgs/69881.html, I think this will get you there. I will do some hunting for an immunologist. Thanks.
> Hi, we had a discussion about OTC antihistamines and suicidial ideation earlier and I appreciate Elizabeth's comments, they were clear and to the point. One thing I think happens, is when the body is vulnerable and a drug is introduced, there is a 'cascade', where the body may have a little then it gets bigger and bigger so to say. That has happened to me. What type of md is good to see for evaluating if your immune system is working?
This is the end of the thread.
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