![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 14:56:21
I am currently suffering from a major depression which limits my emotions, severely limits my ability to concentrate, my memory, and generally my intelligence. Also I have lost most of my creativity. My depression doesn't really have an anxiety component and I am able to sleep well and eat well. I have been on Paxil for 19 days. Perhaps that has helped with previous symptoms of not being able to eat, and difficulty falling back to sleep after waking in the middle of the night, which have been solved.
What I am wondering is do different classes or types of anti depressants better suited for different symptoms? I have very little of the guilt and feelings of worthlessness. I eat and sleep okay. I just have severe lack of emotions and the ability to think and concentrate. Would certian types of drugs be better suited for these particular symptoms?
Would drugs that work for norepinephrine and dopamine perhaps be better suited than an srri for my specific symptoms? Thanks for reading
Posted by Janelle on July 14, 2001, at 15:49:36
In reply to Different drugs for different symptoms?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 14:56:21
YES! Different classes or types of anti depressants do indeed seem better suited for different symptoms. However, you'd be best off asking your doctor which types of drugs are better suited for your particular, specific symptoms.
Also, two different people can have the SAME basic symptoms, both try the SAME med, yet it might work for one of them but NOT the other one.
I don't know enough (but others on here do, and hopefully they will post a response to your questions) if drugs that work for norepinephrine and dopamine might be better suited for your symptoms.
I can hazard a guess and this is just a GUESS, based on what little I know and the experience of someone who did have symptoms like yours, that MAYBE, repeat MAYBE Wellbutrin might work for you, since you do NOT have anxiety (Wellbutrin often increases anxiety in people who already suffer from that). Wellbutrin is quite activating, which might help lift the symptoms you described. Wellbutrin is not an SSRI; it works on dopamine and I'm not sure what other neuros. Hope this is of some help and that others will answer with more info. Good luck!
-Janelle
Posted by SalArmy4me on July 14, 2001, at 15:58:47
In reply to Different drugs for different symptoms?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 14:56:21
Unfortunately, no can tell if serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine is what a person needs. It might seem logical that desipramine (which works on norepinephrine) would be the ideal thing for you to try if Paxil (mostly serotonin) fails, but in clinical practice, another serotonergic drug has just as much chance of helping you after paxil fails.
You definitely haven't given paxil enough time to work. 6 weeks is what it would take to determine a true response or a failure....
Posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 16:35:41
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms?, posted by Janelle on July 14, 2001, at 15:49:36
> YES! Different classes or types of anti depressants do indeed seem better suited for different symptoms. However, you'd be best off asking your doctor which types of drugs are better suited for your particular, specific symptoms.
>
> Also, two different people can have the SAME basic symptoms, both try the SAME med, yet it might work for one of them but NOT the other one.
>
> I don't know enough (but others on here do, and hopefully they will post a response to your questions) if drugs that work for norepinephrine and dopamine might be better suited for your symptoms.
>
> I can hazard a guess and this is just a GUESS, based on what little I know and the experience of someone who did have symptoms like yours, that MAYBE, repeat MAYBE Wellbutrin might work for you, since you do NOT have anxiety (Wellbutrin often increases anxiety in people who already suffer from that). Wellbutrin is quite activating, which might help lift the symptoms you described. Wellbutrin is not an SSRI; it works on dopamine and I'm not sure what other neuros. Hope this is of some help and that others will answer with more info. Good luck!
> -JanelleThanks for the reply. I was considering Wellbutrin as one of my choices if paxil fails since it acts for both norepinephrine and dopamine. Drugs which are 'activing' can increase concentration and thinking ability apposed to drugs which are sedating?
My main and actually only concern with wellbutrin is that is can cause weight loss. I have been quite thin sometimes so I guess if I did try wellbutrin I would just have to force myself to eat more.
Posted by Zo on July 14, 2001, at 16:50:45
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms? » adamie, posted by SalArmy4me on July 14, 2001, at 15:58:47
That said, I don't think Paxil is exactly famous for it's activating qualities. . .
And, in my long experience, there is some correlation to dopaminergic meds and alertness/stimulation. Sometimes it's very direct.
The difference btwn theory and practice? Sure, it's a crapshoot. . .but one might as well roll the dice in the *direction* of dopamine and/or norepinephrine. . .
Zo
> Unfortunately, no can tell if serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine is what a person needs. It might seem logical that desipramine (which works on norepinephrine) would be the ideal thing for you to try if Paxil (mostly serotonin) fails, but in clinical practice, another serotonergic drug has just as much chance of helping you after paxil fails.
Posted by Janelle on July 14, 2001, at 17:11:45
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms? » Janelle, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 16:35:41
Hi, that's a coincidence (and good choice, in my humble opinion) that you've been considering Wellbutrin as one of your choices if Paxil fails since it acts for both norepinephrine and dopamine.
Interestingly, drugs which are 'activing' can increase concentration and thinking ability for those who have your symptoms, BUT drugs which are sedating can increase concentration, focus and thinking ability for people like me, who get anxious, tense, and hyper! Sedating meds calm people like me down and help me sleep. That's what I am going to try because this EffexorXR I'm on (even half therapeutic dose) is too activating/stimulating.
I forgot to mention previously that I was a long-term PAXIL user, and did NOT find it the least bit sedating, but have heard of people who HAVE indeed found Paxil very sedating (which would NOT be good for you! But you need to give it more time yet).
Paxil worked wonders for me, but my symptoms include yours plus MANY others (anxiety, tension, panic, and recently was diagnosed with bipolarII/hypomania, which is why the Paxil became useless to me, may even have fueled the hypomania).
I wish I had your concern about weight loss - I have the opposite problem - have been overweight, so I worry about weight gain! I have lost about 30 pounds (want to lose about 10 more), so I'm being real careful NOT to give in to the munchies that Zyprexa is causing me! I don't want to put any of that weight back on, and if I can continue to lose, that would be great.
If you do try Wellbutrin and weight loss becomes a problem, drinking protein shakes in between meals might help.
-Janelle
Posted by JohnL on July 15, 2001, at 6:32:31
In reply to Different drugs for different symptoms?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 14:56:21
You ask some real good questions, and I can sure relate to them. I have been battling depression similar to yours for years. I am now about 98% well. I've never felt better in my life. What I discovered through years of trial and error with dozens of psychiatric drugs is that there are indeed certain drugs categories for certain symptoms. This is not fact, but then, nothing in psychiatry is, but is based on my own experiences and results.
Paxil is likely to make the numb emotion and numb creativity symptoms worse, not better. That's because the SSRIs (except Prozac) tend to anesthetize emotions. No more lows, but no highs either. That is a welcome relief to someone who has been drowning in despair and crying, but not welcome to someone who is trying to gain back the emotional and creative spectrum. While all the SSRIs share similarities, Prozac is the one that stands out as being quite different. It is also the most time-tested workhorse in the group.
In my own experience drugs that work on norepinephrine and/or dopamine are the ones better suited for your symptoms. It is my guess, based on your description of the situation, that you would respond much better to Prozac, one of the anitpyschotics, one of the stimulants, and/or the European mailorder stimulant Adrafinil.
After years and years, my magic combo right now includes 20mg Prozac a.m., 300mg Adrafinil a.m., and 5mg Zyprexa p.m. I have tried removing each, one at a time, to see which does what, and I've discovered that they are all working in harmony. I cannot remove any one of them. All three are working together, and doing so in a way where the sum is greater than the total of the parts, if that makes any sense. It's like Prozac is ok, Zyprexa is ok, and Adrafinil is ok, but combined they are super.
For symptoms like yours I believe best results will be found in the antipsychotic category and the stimulant category, not the antidepressant category. That's because they work mostly on dopamine and norepinephrine. Don't let the word antipsychotic scare you. You do not have to be psychotic or crazy to respond well to one of them. Zyprexa is the top performer in my opinion, but Risperdal works for some when Zyprexa doesn't. There are clinical studies showing the profound effectiveness of these two antipsychotics in treating depressions like yours. The most profound success is with a combo of Prozac plus Zyprexa. If there is to be an antidepressant in the mix, I would suggest Prozac instead of Paxil. Paxil will likely make your emotions and creativity numb. It squashes the emotional spectrum with many people.
With dozens or hundreds of drugs to choose from, in your case you could narrow the field down to the most likely successful performers. The list, in my opinion, would include trials of:
Prozac
Zyprexa
Risperdal
Amisulpride (European antipsychotic, mailorder)
Adrafinil (European stimulant, mailorder)
Ritalin
AdderalI would not at all be surprised if you found magic somewhere within that list. It would take some trial and error, but the results could well be worth it. Much better than feeling numb the rest of your life.
These are just my thoughts and opinions based on years of fighting a depression very similar to yours. Mileage will vary. But I think you are on the right track by thinking in terms of norepinephrine and dopamine instead of serotonin.
John> I am currently suffering from a major depression which limits my emotions, severely limits my ability to concentrate, my memory, and generally my intelligence. Also I have lost most of my creativity. My depression doesn't really have an anxiety component and I am able to sleep well and eat well. I have been on Paxil for 19 days. Perhaps that has helped with previous symptoms of not being able to eat, and difficulty falling back to sleep after waking in the middle of the night, which have been solved.
>
> What I am wondering is do different classes or types of anti depressants better suited for different symptoms? I have very little of the guilt and feelings of worthlessness. I eat and sleep okay. I just have severe lack of emotions and the ability to think and concentrate. Would certian types of drugs be better suited for these particular symptoms?
>
> Would drugs that work for norepinephrine and dopamine perhaps be better suited than an srri for my specific symptoms? Thanks for reading
Posted by JaneB on July 15, 2001, at 11:56:57
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms?, posted by JohnL on July 15, 2001, at 6:32:31
John,
Remember NHGrandma? Now JaneB. Did you find property for fruit trees?My question: Where does Wellbutrin fit into the class of AD's? I have been on Celexa and felt totally unmotivated, numb, tired, etc. but no longer depressed. The pdoc added Wellbutrin (to counter sexual side effects) 100mg 4 weeks ago and I am still just as tired. I also take Klonopin at night which he doesn't think I should discontinue. 20mg Celexa seems to control the depression but I am just too tired. Is Wellbutrin similar to Adrafinil? Shouldn't it counteract the tiredness from Celexa?
Thanks John and others for all I've learned from this sight. JaneB
Posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 13:19:54
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms?, posted by JohnL on July 15, 2001, at 6:32:31
> You ask some real good questions, and I can sure relate to them. I have been battling depression similar to yours for years. I am now about 98% well. I've never felt better in my life. What I discovered through years of trial and error with dozens of psychiatric drugs is that there are indeed certain drugs categories for certain symptoms. This is not fact, but then, nothing in psychiatry is, but is based on my own experiences and results.
>
> Paxil is likely to make the numb emotion and numb creativity symptoms worse, not better. That's because the SSRIs (except Prozac) tend to anesthetize emotions. No more lows, but no highs either. That is a welcome relief to someone who has been drowning in despair and crying, but not welcome to someone who is trying to gain back the emotional and creative spectrum. While all the SSRIs share similarities, Prozac is the one that stands out as being quite different. It is also the most time-tested workhorse in the group.
>
> In my own experience drugs that work on norepinephrine and/or dopamine are the ones better suited for your symptoms. It is my guess, based on your description of the situation, that you would respond much better to Prozac, one of the anitpyschotics, one of the stimulants, and/or the European mailorder stimulant Adrafinil.
>
> After years and years, my magic combo right now includes 20mg Prozac a.m., 300mg Adrafinil a.m., and 5mg Zyprexa p.m. I have tried removing each, one at a time, to see which does what, and I've discovered that they are all working in harmony. I cannot remove any one of them. All three are working together, and doing so in a way where the sum is greater than the total of the parts, if that makes any sense. It's like Prozac is ok, Zyprexa is ok, and Adrafinil is ok, but combined they are super.
>
> For symptoms like yours I believe best results will be found in the antipsychotic category and the stimulant category, not the antidepressant category. That's because they work mostly on dopamine and norepinephrine. Don't let the word antipsychotic scare you. You do not have to be psychotic or crazy to respond well to one of them. Zyprexa is the top performer in my opinion, but Risperdal works for some when Zyprexa doesn't. There are clinical studies showing the profound effectiveness of these two antipsychotics in treating depressions like yours. The most profound success is with a combo of Prozac plus Zyprexa. If there is to be an antidepressant in the mix, I would suggest Prozac instead of Paxil. Paxil will likely make your emotions and creativity numb. It squashes the emotional spectrum with many people.Thanks for the informative reply. It is somewhat relieving to know that if I am not much better there are various options to consider. Since I am on the paxil for 20 days now I will need to stick by it to see how it works. If it doesn't work well enough I will deffinetly consider your ideas. And I'll be sure to do some research on these stimulants and anti phychotics. Before the paxil each was very torturous.
I actually was considering taking Prozac instead of paxil earlier. I was already taking paxil for 3 days. From my research it seems Prozac is one of the most effective anti depressants for accutane caused depression but I was feeling so bad that I just didn't want to start over. I didn't know I would be able to stand it. I just wanted relief. Any relief. So I am doing better with this paxil now. Or maybe the accutane effect is just going away. But I assume the paxil is doing something so far, and the effects can only improve. So I will see how this goes. But it's good to know what my options should be if paxil isn't good enough.
Before your reply I was actually thinking about trying Wellbutrin possibly if the paxil failed. Since it works for norepinephrine and dopamine. And also I was considering Serzone and Remeron. Which are for seratonin and norepinephrine. but it seems I should deffinetly try something for norepinephrine and dopamine. So I will look into the things you mentioned. Prozac seems like a very good choice in the seratonin category.
In your experience have there been certain drugs which have worked best for loving emotions? I am most concerned about that. I really need my full loving emotions back. I want to feel for my fiance as much as I have before or at least close to it. But perhaps that has to do with emotions in general. Thank you very much for replying.
> With dozens or hundreds of drugs to choose from, in your case you could narrow the field down to the most likely successful performers. The list, in my opinion, would include trials of:
> Prozac
> Zyprexa
> Risperdal
> Amisulpride (European antipsychotic, mailorder)
> Adrafinil (European stimulant, mailorder)
> Ritalin
> Adderal
>
> I would not at all be surprised if you found magic somewhere within that list. It would take some trial and error, but the results could well be worth it. Much better than feeling numb the rest of your life.
>
> These are just my thoughts and opinions based on years of fighting a depression very similar to yours. Mileage will vary. But I think you are on the right track by thinking in terms of norepinephrine and dopamine instead of serotonin.
> John
>
> > I am currently suffering from a major depression which limits my emotions, severely limits my ability to concentrate, my memory, and generally my intelligence. Also I have lost most of my creativity. My depression doesn't really have an anxiety component and I am able to sleep well and eat well. I have been on Paxil for 19 days. Perhaps that has helped with previous symptoms of not being able to eat, and difficulty falling back to sleep after waking in the middle of the night, which have been solved.
> >
> > What I am wondering is do different classes or types of anti depressants better suited for different symptoms? I have very little of the guilt and feelings of worthlessness. I eat and sleep okay. I just have severe lack of emotions and the ability to think and concentrate. Would certian types of drugs be better suited for these particular symptoms?
> >
> > Would drugs that work for norepinephrine and dopamine perhaps be better suited than an srri for my specific symptoms? Thanks for reading
Posted by Mitch on July 15, 2001, at 14:51:49
In reply to Different drugs for different symptoms?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 14:56:21
Hi adamie,
You mentioned that you had early morning awakenings and no appetite before the Paxil, right? My question now, did you *also* have the "severe lack of emotions" *before* you started the Paxil?? Paxil is a little notorious for making one apathetic. You might ask your doctor about *adding* something like desipramine (which Sal mentioned) since the Paxil helped with your sleep and appetite. Something like desipramine shouldn't curb your appetite or cause insomnia, but should definitely help your focus and get your attention back.
hope this helps,Mitch
> I am currently suffering from a major depression which limits my emotions, severely limits my ability to concentrate, my memory, and generally my intelligence. Also I have lost most of my creativity. My depression doesn't really have an anxiety component and I am able to sleep well and eat well. I have been on Paxil for 19 days. Perhaps that has helped with previous symptoms of not being able to eat, and difficulty falling back to sleep after waking in the middle of the night, which have been solved.
>
> What I am wondering is do different classes or types of anti depressants better suited for different symptoms? I have very little of the guilt and feelings of worthlessness. I eat and sleep okay. I just have severe lack of emotions and the ability to think and concentrate. Would certian types of drugs be better suited for these particular symptoms?
>
> Would drugs that work for norepinephrine and dopamine perhaps be better suited than an srri for my specific symptoms? Thanks for reading
Posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 15:06:41
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms? » adamie, posted by Mitch on July 15, 2001, at 14:51:49
> Hi adamie,
>
> You mentioned that you had early morning awakenings and no appetite before the Paxil, right? My question now, did you *also* have the "severe lack of emotions" *before* you started the Paxil?? Paxil is a little notorious for making one apathetic. You might ask your doctor about *adding* something like desipramine (which Sal mentioned) since the Paxil helped with your sleep and appetite. Something like desipramine shouldn't curb your appetite or cause insomnia, but should definitely help your focus and get your attention back.
> hope this helps,
>
> MitchI have had a severe lack of emotions before the paxil. now 20 days on the paxil my emotions are just extremely mild. Still hardly any reaction to anything.
If paxil has a numbing effecting effect then which types of anti depressants dont? The most important thing for me is to get all my emotions and thinking ability back. Would the designer anti depressants be a good choice? Such as Wellbutrin, Serzone or Remeron? Although I may try Prozac afterwards if paxil fails. I have many choices. I will just have to see.
Although regarding the paxil, maybe it has had a numbing effect on me already. It is very hard to feel loving towards my fiance and a week ago I was actually feeling loving towards her. but maybe it was an up period. I guess I will see.
>
> > I am currently suffering from a major depression which limits my emotions, severely limits my ability to concentrate, my memory, and generally my intelligence. Also I have lost most of my creativity. My depression doesn't really have an anxiety component and I am able to sleep well and eat well. I have been on Paxil for 19 days. Perhaps that has helped with previous symptoms of not being able to eat, and difficulty falling back to sleep after waking in the middle of the night, which have been solved.
> >
> > What I am wondering is do different classes or types of anti depressants better suited for different symptoms? I have very little of the guilt and feelings of worthlessness. I eat and sleep okay. I just have severe lack of emotions and the ability to think and concentrate. Would certian types of drugs be better suited for these particular symptoms?
> >
> > Would drugs that work for norepinephrine and dopamine perhaps be better suited than an srri for my specific symptoms? Thanks for reading
Posted by Mitch on July 16, 2001, at 10:55:58
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms? » Mitch, posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 15:06:41
> > Hi adamie,
> >
> > You mentioned that you had early morning awakenings and no appetite before the Paxil, right? My question now, did you *also* have the "severe lack of emotions" *before* you started the Paxil?? Paxil is a little notorious for making one apathetic. You might ask your doctor about *adding* something like desipramine (which Sal mentioned) since the Paxil helped with your sleep and appetite. Something like desipramine shouldn't curb your appetite or cause insomnia, but should definitely help your focus and get your attention back.
> > hope this helps,
> >
> > Mitch
>
> I have had a severe lack of emotions before the paxil. now 20 days on the paxil my emotions are just extremely mild. Still hardly any reaction to anything.
>
> If paxil has a numbing effecting effect then which types of anti depressants dont? The most important thing for me is to get all my emotions and thinking ability back. Would the designer anti depressants be a good choice? Such as Wellbutrin, Serzone or Remeron? Although I may try Prozac afterwards if paxil fails. I have many choices. I will just have to see.
>
> Although regarding the paxil, maybe it has had a numbing effect on me already. It is very hard to feel loving towards my fiance and a week ago I was actually feeling loving towards her. but maybe it was an up period. I guess I will see.
>Adamie, It looks like Paxil may not be the one for you. Prozac would be less likely to "numb you out" though you have expressed concerns about weight loss and insomnia and Prozac can definitely trigger that. I think a tricyclic probably would be best-so you can sleep and eat ok and get more energy. Wellubtrin might curb your appetite too much. Serzone might not be powerful enough, however Remeron might work for you (especially for appetite and sleep), but for many people it dulls their attention.
hope this helps some,
Mitch
Posted by adamie on July 16, 2001, at 13:16:01
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms? » adamie, posted by Mitch on July 16, 2001, at 10:55:58
> > > Hi adamie,
> > >
> > > You mentioned that you had early morning awakenings and no appetite before the Paxil, right? My question now, did you *also* have the "severe lack of emotions" *before* you started the Paxil?? Paxil is a little notorious for making one apathetic. You might ask your doctor about *adding* something like desipramine (which Sal mentioned) since the Paxil helped with your sleep and appetite. Something like desipramine shouldn't curb your appetite or cause insomnia, but should definitely help your focus and get your attention back.
> > > hope this helps,
> > >
> > > Mitch
> >
> > I have had a severe lack of emotions before the paxil. now 20 days on the paxil my emotions are just extremely mild. Still hardly any reaction to anything.
> >
> > If paxil has a numbing effecting effect then which types of anti depressants dont? The most important thing for me is to get all my emotions and thinking ability back. Would the designer anti depressants be a good choice? Such as Wellbutrin, Serzone or Remeron? Although I may try Prozac afterwards if paxil fails. I have many choices. I will just have to see.
> >
> > Although regarding the paxil, maybe it has had a numbing effect on me already. It is very hard to feel loving towards my fiance and a week ago I was actually feeling loving towards her. but maybe it was an up period. I guess I will see.
> >
>
> Adamie, It looks like Paxil may not be the one for you. Prozac would be less likely to "numb you out" though you have expressed concerns about weight loss and insomnia and Prozac can definitely trigger that. I think a tricyclic probably would be best-so you can sleep and eat ok and get more energy. Wellubtrin might curb your appetite too much. Serzone might not be powerful enough, however Remeron might work for you (especially for appetite and sleep), but for many people it dulls their attention.
>
> hope this helps some,
> MitchThanks for the reply. What I would need is something that at least doesn't cause weight loss. I dont want to go anorexic. Something with weight gain would actually be good. Something which also increases concentration, thinking, creativity, and most expecially loving emotions. I really have been considering remeron but it's not avialable here in Canada yet. I wish there was something that would specifically suit me. I guess I will have to keep researching. I hope this paxil will work.
Are there any specific anti depressants for increasing thinking ability and emotions? I can tolerate weight loss if there is something that can work well for those.
Posted by shelby on July 16, 2001, at 14:49:04
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms?, posted by adamie on July 16, 2001, at 13:16:01
adamie
I just wanted to reply that all the SSRI's gave me the "numbing emotions" along with aggression, irritability and insomnia. I have gone back to the tricyclic elavil to get back sleep and calm me down. The downside to this is carbohydrate cravings. Currently I am on 60 mg. elavil and 25 mg. of nortriptyline (another tricyclic). I found that when I upped the nortriptyline to above 50 mg. I had problems with no sexual desire.
I don't know if this helps in anyway to your predicament but I'll be keeping in touch with this thread to see how things work out for you.
I also live in Canada and was wondering about Remeron. I have tried Serzone but couldn't stay on it. Anyways, good luck and if you have any questions, let me know.
shelby
Posted by adamie on July 16, 2001, at 16:23:58
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms?, posted by shelby on July 16, 2001, at 14:49:04
> adamie
>
> I just wanted to reply that all the SSRI's gave me the "numbing emotions" along with aggression, irritability and insomnia. I have gone back to the tricyclic elavil to get back sleep and calm me down. The downside to this is carbohydrate cravings. Currently I am on 60 mg. elavil and 25 mg. of nortriptyline (another tricyclic). I found that when I upped the nortriptyline to above 50 mg. I had problems with no sexual desire.
>
> I don't know if this helps in anyway to your predicament but I'll be keeping in touch with this thread to see how things work out for you.
>
> I also live in Canada and was wondering about Remeron. I have tried Serzone but couldn't stay on it. Anyways, good luck and if you have any questions, let me know.
>
> shelbyThanks for replying. The most important thing for me is to get back all my emotions and thinking ability. Emotions primarly. I need to be more loving towards my fiance. The non SSRI seratonin drugs like Remeron and Serzone for example dont cause the SSRI numbing effect? The numbing effect applies only to SSRI's?
In your experience which types of drugs could be better suited for regaining intense loving emotions or just intense emotions in general? Concentration secondary.
And I do hope Remeron is approved here in Canada soon. It seems like a deffinete 'possible' choice for me if it's avialable. Of course I will strongly consider many other choices if the paxil fails to give me desirable results. Thanks for replying. take care
Posted by adamie on July 16, 2001, at 16:36:08
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms? » adamie, posted by Janelle on July 14, 2001, at 17:11:45
> Hi, that's a coincidence (and good choice, in my humble opinion) that you've been considering Wellbutrin as one of your choices if Paxil fails since it acts for both norepinephrine and dopamine.
>
> Interestingly, drugs which are 'activing' can increase concentration and thinking ability for those who have your symptoms, BUT drugs which are sedating can increase concentration, focus and thinking ability for people like me, who get anxious, tense, and hyper! Sedating meds calm people like me down and help me sleep. That's what I am going to try because this EffexorXR I'm on (even half therapeutic dose) is too activating/stimulating.That is extremely useful information. Thank you very much. An activating drug could work very well for me. Do you perhaps know which other drugs are activating/stimulating? I wish I had a better memory which this depression has severely limited.
> I forgot to mention previously that I was a long-term PAXIL user, and did NOT find it the least bit sedating, but have heard of people who HAVE indeed found Paxil very sedating (which would NOT be good for you! But you need to give it more time yet).
I dont find the paxil sedating except perhaps very little before bed time. I know the first time I took it, it was quite sedating. But ever since I hardly noticed it. And during the day I am not sure if it even has any sedating effect on me. I am not really up to doing anything but perhaps that is all from the depression. I have no motivation or desire for anything, hardly anything gives me anything but very mild enjoyment which never lasts. The paxil itself has had almost no side effects except enorgasmia, and i think loss of libido.
>
> Paxil worked wonders for me, but my symptoms include yours plus MANY others (anxiety, tension, panic, and recently was diagnosed with bipolarII/hypomania, which is why the Paxil became useless to me, may even have fueled the hypomania).
>
> I wish I had your concern about weight loss - I have the opposite problem - have been overweight, so I worry about weight gain! I have lost about 30 pounds (want to lose about 10 more), so I'm being real careful NOT to give in to the munchies that Zyprexa is causing me! I don't want to put any of that weight back on, and if I can continue to lose, that would be great.
>
> If you do try Wellbutrin and weight loss becomes a problem, drinking protein shakes in between meals might help.
> -JanelleI really would want to try wellbutrin and I still maybe will. I just know that if I do try it I would have problems with possibly being anorexic. But I would manage. The protein shake idea is a good one. And energy bars I could eat also. Fast and easy.
Posted by Mitch on July 16, 2001, at 23:27:50
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms?, posted by adamie on July 16, 2001, at 13:16:01
adamie,
I am wondering then, given what you have just said that Prozac might be the best next bet for you. It is activating and helps with attention and concentration. I noticed an increased emotional sensitivity and especially visual sensitivity with it. You might not get as many side effects with it as Paxil. It could possibly reduce appetite and degrade sleep, however, although for some it regulates their sleep better.
>What I would need is something that at least doesn't cause weight loss. I dont want to go anorexic. Something with weight gain would actually be good. Something which also increases concentration, thinking, creativity, and most expecially loving emotions. I really have been considering remeron but it's not avialable here in Canada yet. I wish there was something that would specifically suit me. I guess I will have to keep researching. I hope this paxil will work.
>
> Are there any specific anti depressants for increasing thinking ability and emotions? I can tolerate weight loss if there is something that can work well for those.
Posted by adamie on July 17, 2001, at 20:52:18
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms? » adamie, posted by Mitch on July 16, 2001, at 23:27:50
> adamie,
>
> I am wondering then, given what you have just said that Prozac might be the best next bet for you. It is activating and helps with attention and concentration. I noticed an increased emotional sensitivity and especially visual sensitivity with it. You might not get as many side effects with it as Paxil. It could possibly reduce appetite and degrade sleep, however, although for some it regulates their sleep better.hi mitch. I am considering various options if paxil turns out not to be good enough. Earlier you and someone else mentioned dispramine for concentration. Would reboxetine which is avialable here in canada be better suited? It works just for norepinephrine and is not a TCA and therefor less side effects. It's also very new. If I do decide to go with something like despramine would reboxetine be a better choice? It seems to be but I would like to know what you and others may think.
> >What I would need is something that at least doesn't cause weight loss. I dont want to go anorexic. Something with weight gain would actually be good. Something which also increases concentration, thinking, creativity, and most expecially loving emotions. I really have been considering remeron but it's not avialable here in Canada yet. I wish there was something that would specifically suit me. I guess I will have to keep researching. I hope this paxil will work.
> >
> > Are there any specific anti depressants for increasing thinking ability and emotions? I can tolerate weight loss if there is something that can work well for those.
Posted by Mitch on July 17, 2001, at 23:48:59
In reply to Reboxetine instead of dispramine? » Mitch, posted by adamie on July 17, 2001, at 20:52:18
> > adamie,
> >
> > I am wondering then, given what you have just said that Prozac might be the best next bet for you. It is activating and helps with attention and concentration. I noticed an increased emotional sensitivity and especially visual sensitivity with it. You might not get as many side effects with it as Paxil. It could possibly reduce appetite and degrade sleep, however, although for some it regulates their sleep better.
>
> hi mitch. I am considering various options if paxil turns out not to be good enough. Earlier you and someone else mentioned dispramine for concentration. Would reboxetine which is avialable here in canada be better suited? It works just for norepinephrine and is not a TCA and therefor less side effects. It's also very new. If I do decide to go with something like despramine would reboxetine be a better choice? It seems to be but I would like to know what you and others may think.Well hello Canadian neighbor!,
Reboxetine would be *the* choice if *I* could get that here in the states! I would gladly drop my nortripytline I am now taking and try it and see if it helps with my ADHD and seasonal depression.
We have been waiting, and waiting, for Reboxetine here and if I am not mistaken the FDA has turned it down!! What a bunch of assholes. They are surely protecting U.S. drug interests I am sure. So much for free market economies, huh?? As if they aren't making enough money already! Not as if unemployment of pharmaceutical workers here is running rampant due to cunning unfair foreign competition!Ok, enough of that-yes I do think that reboxetine would be a perfect candidate for you. You may just want to *add* it to your Paxil-that is if you are getting sleep/appetite benefits from it.
Mitch
Posted by adamie on July 18, 2001, at 13:17:17
In reply to Re: Reboxetine instead of dispramine? » adamie, posted by Mitch on July 17, 2001, at 23:48:59
> > > adamie,
> > >
> > > I am wondering then, given what you have just said that Prozac might be the best next bet for you. It is activating and helps with attention and concentration. I noticed an increased emotional sensitivity and especially visual sensitivity with it. You might not get as many side effects with it as Paxil. It could possibly reduce appetite and degrade sleep, however, although for some it regulates their sleep better.
> >
> > hi mitch. I am considering various options if paxil turns out not to be good enough. Earlier you and someone else mentioned dispramine for concentration. Would reboxetine which is avialable here in canada be better suited? It works just for norepinephrine and is not a TCA and therefor less side effects. It's also very new. If I do decide to go with something like despramine would reboxetine be a better choice? It seems to be but I would like to know what you and others may think.
>
> Well hello Canadian neighbor!,
>
> Reboxetine would be *the* choice if *I* could get that here in the states! I would gladly drop my nortripytline I am now taking and try it and see if it helps with my ADHD and seasonal depression.
> We have been waiting, and waiting, for Reboxetine here and if I am not mistaken the FDA has turned it down!! What a bunch of assholes. They are surely protecting U.S. drug interests I am sure. So much for free market economies, huh?? As if they aren't making enough money already! Not as if unemployment of pharmaceutical workers here is running rampant due to cunning unfair foreign competition!
>
> Ok, enough of that-yes I do think that reboxetine would be a perfect candidate for you. You may just want to *add* it to your Paxil-that is if you are getting sleep/appetite benefits from it.
>
> MitchThanks. That deffinetly seems like a good idea. So far the paxil has helped a little. I hope it will be good enough on it's own but I'll find out soon I guess. Regarding sleep and appetite. I think those may have been helped just simply because my depression is not as severe anymore. Before I couldn't eat because I was too busy dealing with constant torture. Take care
Posted by JohnL on July 18, 2001, at 18:14:42
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms? » JohnL, posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 13:19:54
> In your experience have there been certain drugs which have worked best for loving emotions? I am most concerned about that. I really need my full loving emotions back. I want to feel for my fiance as much as I have before or at least close to it. But perhaps that has to do with emotions in general. Thank you very much for replying.Adamie, you ask yet another good question. It is kind of stange, but all the SSRIs were bad for my love life. All of them. I tried them all. They just totally numbed my loving emotions. So when I reached the last one, Prozac, I of course expected the same. The first few days on Prozac I thought, "Geez, here we go again". But to my amazement, my love life actually improved starting at about one week into Prozac. Emotions weren't numbed. Erections were strong. I had trouble with sleep though. Zyprexa was added for that. And then again I was pleasantly surprised to encounter even more improvement in my love life. I am totally sold on the Prozac+Zyprexa combination. I also take Adrafinil, which totally destroyed my love life when taken by itself. But Prozac+Zyprexa overcome that completely. I do not have much faith in the more common drugs that are supposedly good for love life, such as Wellbutrin or Serzone. I tried them and they were horrible for me.
John
>
> > With dozens or hundreds of drugs to choose from, in your case you could narrow the field down to the most likely successful performers. The list, in my opinion, would include trials of:
> > Prozac
> > Zyprexa
> > Risperdal
> > Amisulpride (European antipsychotic, mailorder)
> > Adrafinil (European stimulant, mailorder)
> > Ritalin
> > Adderal
> >
> > I would not at all be surprised if you found magic somewhere within that list. It would take some trial and error, but the results could well be worth it. Much better than feeling numb the rest of your life.
> >
> > These are just my thoughts and opinions based on years of fighting a depression very similar to yours. Mileage will vary. But I think you are on the right track by thinking in terms of norepinephrine and dopamine instead of serotonin.
> > John
Posted by adamie on July 18, 2001, at 23:26:05
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms? Adamie, posted by JohnL on July 18, 2001, at 18:14:42
>
> > In your experience have there been certain drugs which have worked best for loving emotions? I am most concerned about that. I really need my full loving emotions back. I want to feel for my fiance as much as I have before or at least close to it. But perhaps that has to do with emotions in general. Thank you very much for replying.
>
> Adamie, you ask yet another good question. It is kind of stange, but all the SSRIs were bad for my love life. All of them. I tried them all. They just totally numbed my loving emotions. So when I reached the last one, Prozac, I of course expected the same. The first few days on Prozac I thought, "Geez, here we go again". But to my amazement, my love life actually improved starting at about one week into Prozac. Emotions weren't numbed. Erections were strong. I had trouble with sleep though. Zyprexa was added for that. And then again I was pleasantly surprised to encounter even more improvement in my love life. I am totally sold on the Prozac+Zyprexa combination. I also take Adrafinil, which totally destroyed my love life when taken by itself. But Prozac+Zyprexa overcome that completely. I do not have much faith in the more common drugs that are supposedly good for love life, such as Wellbutrin or Serzone. I tried them and they were horrible for me.
> JohnThanks john. This is extremely important information. To have strong loving emotions is the most important thing for me. I am currently thinking of adding reboxetine to paxil possibly soon. that is if my therapist approves. Assuming I dont get desirable results from that I will deffinetly look into your suggestions. I am just unsure of how my therapist would be on the idea of me taking an anti phychotic. I for one have no problem with that. But I just dont know how she will take it as she is not too informed on medications. But I will manage to get what I need if I really have to. Thanks for the reply.
> > > With dozens or hundreds of drugs to choose from, in your case you could narrow the field down to the most likely successful performers. The list, in my opinion, would include trials of:
> > > Prozac
> > > Zyprexa
> > > Risperdal
> > > Amisulpride (European antipsychotic, mailorder)
> > > Adrafinil (European stimulant, mailorder)
> > > Ritalin
> > > Adderal
> > >
> > > I would not at all be surprised if you found magic somewhere within that list. It would take some trial and error, but the results could well be worth it. Much better than feeling numb the rest of your life.
> > >
> > > These are just my thoughts and opinions based on years of fighting a depression very similar to yours. Mileage will vary. But I think you are on the right track by thinking in terms of norepinephrine and dopamine instead of serotonin.
> > > John
Posted by JohnL on July 19, 2001, at 16:29:07
In reply to Re: Different drugs for different symptoms? Adamie » JohnL, posted by adamie on July 18, 2001, at 23:26:05
Adamie, here is a neat trick that often helps when a doctor is hesitant to go along with what you want. Do some research, print it out on paper, and bring it into the office. Take the attitude of a salesman and make your pitch. Use the research to back it up.
One of the best places to do such research is at www.mentalhealth.com. Follow the prompts for medication research. Choose any med on the list you want. Doesn't matter. Once you arrive at the research page, you can erase the med listed in the box and type in whatever you want to research. For example, you could type in Zyprexa AND Prozac, or Zyprexa AND depression (capitalize the word AND), or whatever creative research you might want to see. You'll be amazed at all the research available that you can print and set in front of you doctor.
It's easy for a doctor to doubt you. But it's a lot harder for them to doubt major universities and other psychiatrists. Bring it in writing. Once they see the effort and thought you have put into it, they will usually be more open to your ideas.
John> >
> > > In your experience have there been certain drugs which have worked best for loving emotions? I am most concerned about that. I really need my full loving emotions back. I want to feel for my fiance as much as I have before or at least close to it. But perhaps that has to do with emotions in general. Thank you very much for replying.
> >
> > Adamie, you ask yet another good question. It is kind of stange, but all the SSRIs were bad for my love life. All of them. I tried them all. They just totally numbed my loving emotions. So when I reached the last one, Prozac, I of course expected the same. The first few days on Prozac I thought, "Geez, here we go again". But to my amazement, my love life actually improved starting at about one week into Prozac. Emotions weren't numbed. Erections were strong. I had trouble with sleep though. Zyprexa was added for that. And then again I was pleasantly surprised to encounter even more improvement in my love life. I am totally sold on the Prozac+Zyprexa combination. I also take Adrafinil, which totally destroyed my love life when taken by itself. But Prozac+Zyprexa overcome that completely. I do not have much faith in the more common drugs that are supposedly good for love life, such as Wellbutrin or Serzone. I tried them and they were horrible for me.
> > John
>
> Thanks john. This is extremely important information. To have strong loving emotions is the most important thing for me. I am currently thinking of adding reboxetine to paxil possibly soon. that is if my therapist approves. Assuming I dont get desirable results from that I will deffinetly look into your suggestions. I am just unsure of how my therapist would be on the idea of me taking an anti phychotic. I for one have no problem with that. But I just dont know how she will take it as she is not too informed on medications. But I will manage to get what I need if I really have to. Thanks for the reply.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > With dozens or hundreds of drugs to choose from, in your case you could narrow the field down to the most likely successful performers. The list, in my opinion, would include trials of:
> > > > Prozac
> > > > Zyprexa
> > > > Risperdal
> > > > Amisulpride (European antipsychotic, mailorder)
> > > > Adrafinil (European stimulant, mailorder)
> > > > Ritalin
> > > > Adderal
> > > >
> > > > I would not at all be surprised if you found magic somewhere within that list. It would take some trial and error, but the results could well be worth it. Much better than feeling numb the rest of your life.
> > > >
> > > > These are just my thoughts and opinions based on years of fighting a depression very similar to yours. Mileage will vary. But I think you are on the right track by thinking in terms of norepinephrine and dopamine instead of serotonin.
> > > > John
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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