![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 13, 2001, at 14:34:23
Thought some might be intereszted in this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4201752,00.html#top
Posted by gilbert on June 13, 2001, at 17:58:01
In reply to Seroxat / Paxil newpaper article in UK..., posted by NikkiT2 on June 13, 2001, at 14:34:23
> Thought some might be intereszted in this
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4201752,00.html#topNikkiT,
All of my experiences with ssris and I have taken them all have been like 2 days after stopping I find myself jonesing for the feeling that the drug gave me. I also feel way more stoned on any of the ssris versus xanax or klonopin. I can start and stop xanax way easier than any of these drugs. Even prozac gave me some rebound depression and flu like symptoms. I know so many people on this board are helped by these drugs but like any drug including the one I still take (xanax) there is more to it than just what is put out by the phamaceutical co's. I think there has been evidence suppression on side effect profiles since prozac came out, otherwise there would not be such huge discrepencies between the drugs side effect inserts given to you with the drugs and real life. On most drugs the side effect sheets are over exagerated it's like the stuff never happens. The ssri side effect sheets have been under exagerated and are still not properly up to date with what is actually occuring. When is the last time you picked up your script and saw a true desription in percentage terms of anorgasmia on any ssri insert. Or the fact that withdrawal may be tough. My blood presuure meds have realistic side effect profiles my xanax has realistic side effect profiles. The ssri's have sugar coated their side effect profiles so much so that your doctor is shocked when you even incur one of them. He looks at you in disbelief...like wow how can that be happening to you none of the reps and none of the literature even disclose the prevelance of what you are experiencing. When I was first prescribe blood pressure meds my doc gave me Lopressor a beta blocker. I told him it caused me to be somewhat limp. He knew right away said come on in let me switch you....that is a very common side effect for a beta blocker. Now 2 years later I go to the same doc tell him I can't orgasm on prozac and he looks at me like I am some sort of freak. It's like he never heard of this. The sales pitch and the cover up continues....It is so easy for people on antidepressants and the medical community to look at benzo users like junkies it will be a big pill to swallow to realize the ssri's are no better in that situation.
Gil
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 13, 2001, at 19:04:02
In reply to Seroxat / Paxil newpaper article in UK..., posted by NikkiT2 on June 13, 2001, at 14:34:23
You can't believe everything you read...Newspapers are interested in making money too, you know.
> Thought some might be intereszted in this
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4201752,00.html#top
Posted by gilbert on June 13, 2001, at 20:34:59
In reply to Re: Seroxat / Paxil newpaper article in UK..., posted by SalArmy4me on June 13, 2001, at 19:04:02
> You can't believe everything you read...Newspapers are interested in making money too, you know.
Do you really think this is the kind of story that will get a newspaper rich in England. Maybe if Prince Edward could not get off paxil. I don't think this would make the front page here let alone England. If the story is false then Smith KKline can sue the beejeezzuss out of the newspaper for libel. I don't think too many papers want to willingly face the legal team of a pharmaceutical company it's like fighting the chinese on land man for man.The real issue here is over and over on this board when someone posts something bad about drugs we like or are using we always dismiss the negative without even really looking at the possibility it may be true. That would make us too uncomfortable. I don't want to know or hear bad things about the drug I am taking especially if it working. This is never more prevalent then with ssri use. Everytime someone posts some lawsuit or bit of data that even slightly questions the safety or long term use of ssri's everyone dismisses it as hogwash, or they were just trying to sell papers, or the study was inconclusive, or the drug helps me so screw them. Let's not be so naive to think that the meds we take are not without a cost. Maybe the cost to you isn't the same as the next person but does that always invalidate their experiences. It scares to think that my drug xanax has so much bad press. I don't want to believe most of it but deep down I know some of it is true. So Salarmy4me I know you from your posts and you seem quite bright. I seriuosly can't beleive that you honestly beleive newspapers are less trustworthy than pharmaceutical companies. My betting dollar is on the fact that for some people these drugs have very bad consequences including the drug I take xanax. I refuse to bury my head in the sand and always dismiss the bad news about these drugs simply so that I can feel comfortable taking them. WE shuld be uncomfortable taking them, it is healthy to question, it is wise to be cautious, rhather than constantly being lemmings running off the cliffs maybe we should open a blind eye once in a while.....who knows maybe it will force a better product to be produced, maybe it will force a safer alternative.
Gil
Posted by AMenz on June 14, 2001, at 11:02:31
In reply to ssris...the tip of the iceburg., posted by gilbert on June 13, 2001, at 17:58:01
My child just had a relapse and suicide (suicide gesture might be more accurate) trying to lower the dossage of Zoloft from 50 to 25 mg.
I don't see how she is going to get off this drug. What are the withdrawal symptoms. Please explain in detail. ARe they a recurrence of depression, do they occur while the dosage is being lowered.
Her psychiatrist is oblivious to the rebound effect of all SSRI's although savvi on the withdrawal effect of other psychotropic drugs. They create the opposite reaction (eg benzo withdrawal gives you anxiety)
They now want to put her on a mood stabilizer. I am deadly opposed to mood stabilizers at 16 having as an adult gone through some hairy experiences while having to be on them, too numerous to state here.
Any info wil be appreciated
> > Thought some might be intereszted in this
> >
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4201752,00.html#top
>
> NikkiT,
>
> All of my experiences with ssris and I have taken them all have been like 2 days after stopping I find myself jonesing for the feeling that the drug gave me. I also feel way more stoned on any of the ssris versus xanax or klonopin. I can start and stop xanax way easier than any of these drugs. Even prozac gave me some rebound depression and flu like symptoms. I know so many people on this board are helped by these drugs but like any drug including the one I still take (xanax) there is more to it than just what is put out by the phamaceutical co's. I think there has been evidence suppression on side effect profiles since prozac came out, otherwise there would not be such huge discrepencies between the drugs side effect inserts given to you with the drugs and real life. On most drugs the side effect sheets are over exagerated it's like the stuff never happens. The ssri side effect sheets have been under exagerated and are still not properly up to date with what is actually occuring. When is the last time you picked up your script and saw a true desription in percentage terms of anorgasmia on any ssri insert. Or the fact that withdrawal may be tough. My blood presuure meds have realistic side effect profiles my xanax has realistic side effect profiles. The ssri's have sugar coated their side effect profiles so much so that your doctor is shocked when you even incur one of them. He looks at you in disbelief...like wow how can that be happening to you none of the reps and none of the literature even disclose the prevelance of what you are experiencing. When I was first prescribe blood pressure meds my doc gave me Lopressor a beta blocker. I told him it caused me to be somewhat limp. He knew right away said come on in let me switch you....that is a very common side effect for a beta blocker. Now 2 years later I go to the same doc tell him I can't orgasm on prozac and he looks at me like I am some sort of freak. It's like he never heard of this. The sales pitch and the cover up continues....It is so easy for people on antidepressants and the medical community to look at benzo users like junkies it will be a big pill to swallow to realize the ssri's are no better in that situation.
>
> Gil
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 14, 2001, at 12:19:59
In reply to Re: ssris...the tip of the iceburg gilbert, posted by AMenz on June 14, 2001, at 11:02:31
What is so bad about a mood-stabilizer? Nothing could be more benign than a little lithium, gabapentin, or topiramate.
Posted by AMenz on June 15, 2001, at 23:49:37
In reply to Re: ssris...the tip of the iceburg gilbert, posted by SalArmy4me on June 14, 2001, at 12:19:59
I'll tell you. Lithium, neurontin and topomax (all of which I have been on-I'm still on lithium)
have given me terrible side effects.If you are lucky any or all of these drugs will benefit you and stabilize your mood. However, in my case after 12 years of Lithium (compounded by menopausal estrogen deficiency) I have serious cognitive dulling and am no longer stable. Topomax and neurontin substituted for lithium virtually made me psychotic in reasonable doses. On topomax I was so labile that you said boo to me and I started crying (and I was a practicing lawyer for 17 years. Neurontin had such a devastating paradoxical effect on me I had to close my practice.
So mu thinking is (and it is based only on a hunch and on personal experience) that one should take the least possible medication in order to function and tolerate some symptomatology.
In my daughter's case she is not highly manic. She gets a little activated. I think the SSRI's are doing this. So the remedy for the depression is activating manic symptoms that perhaps at her age would not occur otherwise.
What I'm trying to say in a round about way is that I don't see the point of medicating her for a possible manic episode in five years as the answer for kicking up hypomaniac because of the SSRI's. That's pill-o-matic thinking IMHO.
There I've probably told you more thant you were interested in hearing. But I do appreciate your answering my post.
> What is so bad about a mood-stabilizer? Nothing could be more benign than a little lithium, gabapentin, or topiramate.
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 0:08:17
In reply to Re: ssris...the tip of the iceburg gilbert, posted by AMenz on June 15, 2001, at 23:49:37
If she shows any signs of mania, she needs to be on a mood-stabilizer. Any doctor will tell you that. If a doctor recommends this, and you say no, you will be impeding your own child's recovery--thus making her suffer needlessly.
Posted by Anna Laura on June 16, 2001, at 2:25:14
In reply to ssris...the tip of the iceburg., posted by gilbert on June 13, 2001, at 17:58:01
> > Thought some might be intereszted in this
> >
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4201752,00.html#top
>
> NikkiT,
>
> All of my experiences with ssris and I have taken them all have been like 2 days after stopping I find myself jonesing for the feeling that the drug gave me. I also feel way more stoned on any of the ssris versus xanax or klonopin. I can start and stop xanax way easier than any of these drugs. Even prozac gave me some rebound depression and flu like symptoms. I know so many people on this board are helped by these drugs but like any drug including the one I still take (xanax) there is more to it than just what is put out by the phamaceutical co's. I think there has been evidence suppression on side effect profiles since prozac came out, otherwise there would not be such huge discrepencies between the drugs side effect inserts given to you with the drugs and real life. On most drugs the side effect sheets are over exagerated it's like the stuff never happens. The ssri side effect sheets have been under exagerated and are still not properly up to date with what is actually occuring. When is the last time you picked up your script and saw a true desription in percentage terms of anorgasmia on any ssri insert. Or the fact that withdrawal may be tough. My blood presuure meds have realistic side effect profiles my xanax has realistic side effect profiles. The ssri's have sugar coated their side effect profiles so much so that your doctor is shocked when you even incur one of them. He looks at you in disbelief...like wow how can that be happening to you none of the reps and none of the literature even disclose the prevelance of what you are experiencing. When I was first prescribe blood pressure meds my doc gave me Lopressor a beta blocker. I told him it caused me to be somewhat limp. He knew right away said come on in let me switch you....that is a very common side effect for a beta blocker. Now 2 years later I go to the same doc tell him I can't orgasm on prozac and he looks at me like I am some sort of freak. It's like he never heard of this. The sales pitch and the cover up continues....It is so easy for people on antidepressants and the medical community to look at benzo users like junkies it will be a big pill to swallow to realize the ssri's are no better in that situation.
>
> GilGil,
My humble personal opinion is that the more you're depressed the more you're likely to have side effects when you quit AD. It's like rebound effects and depression are somewhat intertwined so that it gets difficult to distinguish wether it' the drug making you sick or it's just you being depressed/anxious. I personally had big time problems with benzos years ago: i was taking a benzo called "prazene" (living in Europe i don't know wether you guys have heard about it or not) : the compound is called "prazepam" or something like that.Well; i had big time problems quitting that drug: i took years to get it off my shoulders.I felt like a jun,kie, felt guilty about it. The point is that i had been undiagnosed, just being given benzos, no AD whatsoever ,so i got more depressed as time went by: that was one of the reasons why it was so hard to quit : the benzos were kind of "concealing" the depression symptoms which showed up every time i was trying to quit. Sure that the benzo was addictive also, but nothing was written on the paper sheet about addiction/cold turkey/rebound and so on. Many years after that they added warnings about addiction on the paper sheet: as a matter of fact, PRAZENE is believed to be a highly addictive benzo, pdocs prescribing thet quite rarely now. One thing i think it's unfair about AD is that they never talk about emotional blunting (the so-called frontal syndrome). If i knew that before i probably wouldn't have taken them; but this is a controversial issue for me since they have been life-savers while i was psychotic. But again, they should be talking about the frontal syndrome thing: i personally prefer to feel more depressed, feeling -the flesh and blood-sort-of-thing rather then feeling numb; i personally prefer to suffer and feeling more lively; this is controversial issue also : the last bout of depression i had i felt like i was dead and AD actually helped me to feel more lively;
Sorry for being so prolix/lenghty.Anna Laura
Posted by gilbert on June 16, 2001, at 10:27:08
In reply to Re: ssris...the tip of the iceburg., posted by Anna Laura on June 16, 2001, at 2:25:14
Anna Laura,
I have not ever really been diagnosed with depression. The only time I have ever really show any signs of depression is when I take benzos on a regular basis then I expereince a kind of chemical induced state of depression. I have panic attacks and I know sometimes depression plays a role but for me the antidepressants don't help me with the panics and in some cases make them worse. I have tried them all. The first few weeks I get some relief after initial symptoms subside but then the panics break through. I would have to dose up and am not willing to live with the side effects. I know some people on the board are depressed to the point where the side effects are meaningless. ......It is either take this pill or die.....My situation is not that grave. I am 42 I have lived with the panics unmedicated until 3 years ago and to be quite honest the medications have not really improved the quality of my life that much. Xanax does kill the panics but I am in the process right now of coming off that and will use it prn. Taking it around the clock has
made life a little dull around the edges. Thanks and good luck.Gil
Posted by Jane D on June 16, 2001, at 16:45:04
In reply to Re: ssris...the tip of the iceburg gilbert, posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 0:08:17
> If she shows any signs of mania, she needs to be on a mood-stabilizer. Any doctor will tell you that. If a doctor recommends this, and you say no, you will be impeding your own child's recovery--thus making her suffer needlessly.
Hi Jason (Sal),
I'm very disturbed by your response to AMenz. I cringed when I first read her post - I don't like to imagine having to make these kinds of decisions for any body other than myself. I didn't respond, figuring that another parent who had been through this themselves would.You make a lot of assumptions in your short post that just aren't justified. The first would be assuming that anything a doctor says is correct and that a parent who disagrees is negligent. You're ignoring the fact that all of these treatment recommendations are just the best GUESS available TODAY. That guess is based on what seems to work for the most people in a large heterogeneous (mixed) group. None of these treatments work for everyone and nobody yet knows why. Your omniscient doctor has no idea whether his recommendations will work for YOUR child. All he knows it what seems to be best for 2 out of 3 people perhaps. This means he'll be right more often than not but what if you think your child is number 3 in that group? You need to be right this time not 2 times out of 3.
Amenz gave some very good reasons for not wanting her daugher on a mood stabilizer. So far as I know there is no research yet on whether bad responses to a drug are inherited but it certainly seems reasonable. Actually, it seems inevitable. I know that we make the reverse assumption often - that a drug will work well if it has worked for a relative.
It also seems like she has good reason for wanting this child off an SSRI but I haven't seen anybody addressing this or coming up with alternatives. How about it? Something that won't trigger mania and doesn't work through the same mechanism as the mood stabilizers that produced such a bad result?
A final cautionary footnote. Thirty years ago these same doctors were telling parents that retarded children should be institutionalized to prevent "needless suffering". Parents who refused were accused of being selfish. We now know that the parents were right and it was the children that were sent away that suffered. Ideas change and you have no way of knowing now whether any choice will cause or prevent suffering in ANY GIVEN case.
Jane
Posted by Jane D on June 16, 2001, at 17:27:34
In reply to Re: ssris...the tip of the iceburg gilbert, posted by AMenz on June 15, 2001, at 23:49:37
AMenz,
I just found myself answering one of the posters who responded to you. I didn't answer you directly sooner because I don't have any specific answers and I suspect other people here may. You do have my sympathy - I'm so grateful I only have to deal with these decisions for myself. The Guardian article referred to above quotes David Healy as saying immediate symptoms are probably withdrawal not relapse. For what it's worth this fits with my experience of relapse and the symptons described as withdrawal are those I have temporarily every time I change dosage up or down. (Disclaimer - I am not bipolar.)Still if you have to deal with a suicide attempt or even a gesture does it really matter whether it is relapse or withdrawal? It seems like you have no choice but to treat this somehow, but your reasoning that the SSRI's may make things worse makes sense to me. So does your desire to avoid the mood stabilizers that were so bad for you.
I'm sorry I have no real information to offer. I'm just hoping someone else will jump in if the thread is kept going. Maybe the new caption will prove intriguing. Good luck.
Jane
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 19:33:41
In reply to Medication decision for child » SalArmy4me, posted by Jane D on June 16, 2001, at 16:45:04
Are you telling people that they should mistrust their doctor and always follow their own usually uninformed whims? Doctors study this stuff, trust them. Chances are good that your doctor knows from first-hand clinical experience what works and what doesn't. Parents do not have any first-hand experience with highly psycho-active drugs.
> Amenz gave some very good reasons for not wanting her daugher on a mood stabilizer. So far as I know there is no research yet on whether bad responses to a drug are inherited but it certainly seems reasonable. Actually, it seems inevitable. I know that we make the reverse assumption often - that a drug will work well if >it has worked for a relative.There is no evidence to suggest that a similar reaction will occur if someone who is related takes the same drug. All that this person has to "rule out" all mood-stabilizers is a few bad experiences with one. Meanwhile, there are several of them available now, each of which represents a wonderful opportunity for relief, like lamotrigine, gabapentin, and topiramate. There is even a new formulation of Depakote called ER.
Posted by Jane D on June 16, 2001, at 20:28:03
In reply to Re: Medication decision for child » Jane D, posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 19:33:41
> Are you telling people that they should mistrust their doctor and always follow their own usually uninformed whims? Doctors study this stuff, trust them.
Yes. I think that people should follow their own educated judgments about the quality of their care. Judgments - not whims. Doctors study a wide range of problems in a wide range of different patients. I study only what applies to me and, therefore, I can bring a level of focus to it, that they probably can't match. That's natural. And I'm only talking about the good doctors here. The ones who really did pay attention the first time around and who have kept up to date since.>Chances are good that your doctor knows from first-hand clinical experience what works and what doesn't. Parents do not have any first-hand experience with highly psycho-active drugs.
Unfortunately, chances are good that your doctor doesn't know first hand what will work in all given circumstances. He knows, at best, what works some of the time. If he tells you he definately knows how you will react you should find another doctor - he is lying either to you or to himself.
> There is no evidence to suggest that a similar reaction will occur if someone who is related takes the same drug.
There is no evidence I know of that it doesn't. And actually the accounts that the same drugs work well for family members is evidence of a sort.
>All that this person has to "rule out" all mood-stabilizers is a few bad experiences with one. Meanwhile, there are several of them available now, each of which represents a wonderful opportunity for relief, like lamotrigine, gabapentin, and topiramate. There is even a new formulation of Depakote called ER.
And you've just demonstrated one of the problems with relying too completely on doctors or anybody else. You can never be sure they have paid attention to all the important details. In this case it was many bad experiences with several mood stabilizers not one. It's an easy mistake for anyone but the person involved to make.
Jane
Posted by Zo on June 16, 2001, at 21:43:54
In reply to Re: Medication decision for child » Jane D, posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 19:33:41
> Are you telling people that they should mistrust their doctor and always follow their own usually uninformed whims?
You've omitted the third and most powerful option of all.
It concerns me to see the issue unnecessarily polarized (no pun intended) like this. Mistrust. Uninformed Whims.
I work in partnership with my pdoc, and am a highly informed patient, often bringing him new information from reading or off the web, even from PsychoBabble. And he, in turn, brings his knowledge to bear on my condition. And together, we are more than either of us alone.
I wish such a partnership for each suffering person and their doc. And for many run of the mill pdocs, hell, yes, mistrust is appropriate. It's not hard to discern if you're being given thoughtful advice.
Zo
Posted by Willow on June 16, 2001, at 21:46:50
In reply to Re: Medication decision for child » Jane D, posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 19:33:41
> Are you telling people that they should mistrust their doctor and always follow their own usually uninformed whims? Doctors study this stuff, trust them. Chances are good that your doctor knows from first-hand clinical experience what works and what doesn't. Parents do not have any first-hand experience with highly psycho-active drugs.
>
> There is no evidence to suggest that a similar reaction will occur if someone who is related takes the same drug. All that this person has to "rule out" all mood-stabilizers is a few bad experiences with one.I have to agre with Jane and AMenz concerning the family's reaction to medications. My father is nowing seeing a psychiatrist who specializes in the lasting affects of these meds. She has said to me that yes there is a tendency for family members to react in similar manner to drugs; eg both my father and I are hypersensitive.
Trust the doctors with blind-faith! Hum-bug! If I had been more persitent about getting a previous medication lowered for my father he wouldn't have had his heart attack as young as he did. The medication was reduced after this.
My mother works directly with patients, talk to the caregivers, they know more about how medications affect individuals etc than doctors do.
AMenz give your child a hug and an ear with an open mind. Having your support will help her get through this. My best wishes to the both of you!
Willow
Posted by Willow on June 16, 2001, at 22:12:24
In reply to Re: Medication decision for child, posted by Zo on June 16, 2001, at 21:43:54
> I work in partnership with my pdoc, and am a highly informed patient, often bringing him new information from reading or off the web, even from PsychoBabble. And he, in turn, brings his knowledge to bear on my condition. And together, we are more than either of us alone.
>
> I wish such a partnership for each suffering person and their doc.Zo's point about having a trusting partnership works. When I switched to a doctor I trusted and who was open with me I began to feel better.
Good point!
Willow
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 17, 2001, at 6:51:03
In reply to Re: Medication decision for child » Jane D, posted by SalArmy4me on June 16, 2001, at 19:33:41
You guys really think that because you read this newsgroup you can tell your doctor how to do his/her job. All you're gonna get is "I told you so" from your doctor when you make a mistake and reject a medication your kid really needs.
You guys think that mood-stabilizers are the worst things on earth. You know what's 100% worse that I have taken? MAOI's and old tricyclics. But if my doctor said that he really thought one of those would help me, I would take one anyway.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 17, 2001, at 8:36:24
In reply to Re: Medication decision for child Willow,Zo,Jane , posted by SalArmy4me on June 17, 2001, at 6:51:03
> You guys really think that because you read this newsgroup you can tell your doctor how to do his/her job. All you're gonna get is "I told you so" from your doctor when you make a mistake and reject a medication your kid really needs.
You have a valid point, that may happen, but not necessarily. Please be careful when making generalizations -- and when predicting the future. Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding supportiveness should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Jane D on June 17, 2001, at 12:15:33
In reply to Partnership ... , posted by Willow on June 16, 2001, at 22:12:24
>
> > I work in partnership with my pdoc, and am a highly informed patient, often bringing him new information from reading or off the web, even from PsychoBabble. And he, in turn, brings his knowledge to bear on my condition. And together, we are more than either of us alone.
> >
> > I wish such a partnership for each suffering person and their doc.
>
> Zo's point about having a trusting partnership works. When I switched to a doctor I trusted and who was open with me I began to feel better.
>
> Good point!
>
> WillowZo & Willow- You do make good points. And I did let my irritation lead me into a polarized position. Believe it or not, I trust my doctor. I base this on long experience and selective checking up on his recommendations. I suspect he would be justifiably insulted if I suggested that anybody else with a medical degree would do as well.
I don't think it really is a partnership however. To me, a partnership means that the risks are shared and these risks are not. Whether his recommendations work or not his life goes on the same. Mine may not. I prefer to think of him as an advisor (Advisor to the king - delusions of grandeur?). I want his expertise but, in the end, the policy decisions - to take the drug or not - even to delegate the decisions for awhile - must be mine.
Jane
Posted by Willow on June 17, 2001, at 13:54:31
In reply to Re: Partnership ... , posted by Jane D on June 17, 2001, at 12:15:33
is a different version yes. Me, I see myself as the princess. When I suffer the whole world suffers with me, including the doctor.
Bad joke!
Willow
Posted by Zo on June 19, 2001, at 2:09:37
In reply to Re: Partnership ... , posted by Jane D on June 17, 2001, at 12:15:33
Jane,
Thanks for clarifying what I really meant, better than I could say it myself! It is a partnership in the sense that each of our different intelligences are brought to bear on The Problem. . .and neither contribution receives less respect, despite the inherent power imbalance of the doctor-patient relationship. I am very, very fortunate to have a pdoc who is utterly respectful and gracious whilst knowledgeable as all hell. . .Why, I believe he even knows Dr.Bob! [insert ironic emoticon.]
Posted by Jane D on June 23, 2001, at 0:11:44
In reply to Re: Partnership -- of Advisor and Patient » Jane D, posted by Zo on June 19, 2001, at 2:09:37
> Jane,
>
> Thanks for clarifying what I really meant, better than I could say it myself! It is a partnership in the sense that each of our different intelligences are brought to bear on The Problem. . .and neither contribution receives less respect, despite the inherent power imbalance of the doctor-patient relationship. I am very, very fortunate to have a pdoc who is utterly respectful and gracious whilst knowledgeable as all hell. . .Why, I believe he even knows Dr.Bob! [insert ironic emoticon.]Zo -
Your first post was quite clear and I was glad you jumped in with some rationality. I had gotten myself a little further out on a ledge than I wanted to go. I was only nitpicking the choice of words because I am still resentful of some condescending, patronizing doctors I dealt with years ago. Hopefully, they are long since retired.
Jane
This is the end of the thread.
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