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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Paige on May 18, 2001, at 18:26:17
Does anyone have any scientific based knowledge or otherwise
regarding dopamine and or noradrenaline induced
crying? Maybe a better question is, what is released
chemically when you cry or pre-crying? I want to
know if there is any validity to my experience, belief
and minimal research that perhaps Wellbutrin may very
well have this as a rare side effect for those
who are med sensitive, otherwise I am worse than I
thought.Thanks for help
Paige
Posted by niss on May 18, 2001, at 21:47:16
In reply to dopamine and crying...CAM maybe?, posted by Paige on May 18, 2001, at 18:26:17
It would be low serotonin levels rather than dopamine. Perhaps you should swith the medication you are taking. Try something like Prozac or Paxil.
As an example, when women get PMS and cry,etc...
It is partly because the serotonin levels are reduced due to hormonal activity.
Exercise and eating correctly can help low serotonin levels dramatically.
>Does anyone have any scientific based knowledge or otherwise
> regarding dopamine and or noradrenaline induced
> crying? Maybe a better question is, what is released
> chemically when you cry or pre-crying? I want to
> know if there is any validity to my experience, belief
> and minimal research that perhaps Wellbutrin may very
> well have this as a rare side effect for those
> who are med sensitive, otherwise I am worse than I
> thought.
>
> Thanks for help
> Paige
Posted by stjames on May 18, 2001, at 22:34:41
In reply to dopamine and crying...CAM maybe?, posted by Paige on May 18, 2001, at 18:26:17
> Does anyone have any scientific based knowledge or otherwise
> regarding dopamine and or noradrenaline induced
> crying? Maybe a better question is, what is released
> chemically when you cry or pre-crying? I want to
> know if there is any validity to my experience, belief
> and minimal research that perhaps Wellbutrin may very
> well have this as a rare side effect for those
> who are med sensitive, otherwise I am worse than I
> thought.
>
> Thanks for help
> PaigeJames here....
This kind of thing is common during the first few weeks of starting an AD. Expect it to be gone when the dose is right for you and you are past 6-8 weeks (which is when an AD starts to kick in)
James
Posted by Cam W. on May 18, 2001, at 22:55:36
In reply to dopamine and crying...CAM maybe?, posted by Paige on May 18, 2001, at 18:26:17
Paige - The Wellbutrin™ (bupropion) could be starting to lift your depression and the emotional blunting that you were experiencing is starting to lift. Your emotions are not use to increases in serotonin (which does happen, in a roundabout way) and this may be causing your easy crying. Also, James' suggestion is valid and this could be a start-up side effect.
I am not totally convinced that the blocking of dopamine- and norepinephrine-reuptake is the antidepressant mechanism of action of Wellbutrin. I think that it is modulating a secondary receptor in some way or is blocking an enzyme. The true mechanism of action of Wellbutrin does involve the increase of serotonin in certain brain structures (can't remember which, but want to say hippocampus) and this structure may be extra sensitive, in your brain.
These are just a guesses at what is happening in your case. I am really not up on the physiology of crying, but many people do have mood swings while taking Wellbutrin. I know that, for awhile, I was more "sensitive" when I was taking Wellbutrin. This seemed to happen 4 to 6 weeks into taking the drug. At the same time I would get really angry, for know reason. In rush hour traffic I would look for people to yell at, even for minor things. This did pass in about 2 weeks (which I am sure that everyone around me appreciated).
I hope that this is of some help. - Cam
Posted by SalArmy4me on May 18, 2001, at 23:11:58
In reply to Re: dopamine and crying...CAM maybe? » Paige, posted by Cam W. on May 18, 2001, at 22:55:36
I noticed the same crying thing with Lamictal--it definitely has to do with serotonin.
Posted by Paige on May 19, 2001, at 6:43:25
In reply to Re: dopamine and crying...CAM maybe? » Paige, posted by Cam W. on May 18, 2001, at 22:55:36
Dear Niss, St. James, Cam and Sal,
Thank you. All of you for helping me. Everyone is
so great on this board and so helpful. It really means
alot to me, it truly does.I don't
understand why taking an AD would make you cry,
Seems a tad odd, but how can WB release serotonin?
I have had crying spells for last 4 years, but
not on AD. As I increased dose of WB up to 250
that is when it started. Did not happen at a lower
dose of 150, then 200. Pdoc says I do not stay on meds
long enough, but I was on WB for several months, but
only 250mg for a few weeks.I am sorry to be a pain, but does this mean I need
more serotonin or less in my system? I hate
adding SSRIs, I just hate it. I hate the flat feeling
they give.If you have time and can offer some more advice I would
be most grateful.Thanks so much. I am very confused...and pretty sad
too.
Posted by Cam W. on May 19, 2001, at 13:47:39
In reply to more questions...and thank you all!!!!!, posted by Paige on May 19, 2001, at 6:43:25
Paige - The labile moods that you are experiencing may just be your body "correcting" your mix of neurotransmitters in your brain. By being emotionally blunted because of depression, your emotional circuitry may need fine tuning. This occurs over time, as, after being started on an antidepressant, the different transmitters and different receptors find new set-points (presumably with fewer depressive symptoms). The "emotional jag" that you are on may just be your body redistributing neurotransmitters and/or receptors to that nondepressed state.
Again, this is just a guess, but if the emotional lability disappears in 2 to 4 weeks, this is probably what is happening. This is along the line of (and ties into) what James was saying about start-up side effects, as well. Once your body finds a new set-point for the neurotransmitters and/or receptors, the easy crying should stop. This should happen as serotonin begins to increase in the brain areas (eg hippocampus, etc) that are responsible for emotional response.
As for whether you need more or less serotonin, no one really understands that, yet. By today's science you probably needed more serotonin in certain brain areas. It is the increase (or surge) in serotonin from taking the Wellbutrin (in certain, specific brain areas, in a roundabout way) that is probably causing the emotional lability.
In a nutshell, I would hazard a guess that the crying is due to your underused emotional machinery for the past 4 years. Now that it is working again, the emotional machinery is just a bit sensitive, but should fine tune itself as your body continues to adjust to the drug.
Also, your doctor is right. You can't really start counting the time you are on an antidepressant until you have reached optimun dose and remission. Once remission is reached (absence of despressive symptoms) one needs to stay on an antidepressant for a further 6 months (at least) to avoid a recurrance or relapse. So, 2 weeks at 250mg may not be enough and you should probably wait at least another 2 weeks before giving up on the Wellbutrin.
Good luck and hang in there. - Cam
Posted by Paige on May 19, 2001, at 16:52:46
In reply to Re: more questions...and thank you all!!!!! » Paige, posted by Cam W. on May 19, 2001, at 13:47:39
> Paige - The labile moods that you are experiencing may just be your body "correcting" your mix of neurotransmitters in your brain. By being emotionally blunted because of depression, your emotional circuitry may need fine tuning. This occurs over time, as, after being started on an antidepressant, the different transmitters and different receptors find new set-points (presumably with fewer depressive symptoms). The "emotional jag" that you are on may just be your body redistributing neurotransmitters and/or receptors to that nondepressed state.
>
> Again, this is just a guess, but if the emotional lability disappears in 2 to 4 weeks, this is probably what is happening. This is along the line of (and ties into) what James was saying about start-up side effects, as well. Once your body finds a new set-point for the neurotransmitters and/or receptors, the easy crying should stop. This should happen as serotonin begins to increase in the brain areas (eg hippocampus, etc) that are responsible for emotional response.
>
> As for whether you need more or less serotonin, no one really understands that, yet. By today's science you probably needed more serotonin in certain brain areas. It is the increase (or surge) in serotonin from taking the Wellbutrin (in certain, specific brain areas, in a roundabout way) that is probably causing the emotional lability.
>
> In a nutshell, I would hazard a guess that the crying is due to your underused emotional machinery for the past 4 years. Now that it is working again, the emotional machinery is just a bit sensitive, but should fine tune itself as your body continues to adjust to the drug.
>
> Also, your doctor is right. You can't really start counting the time you are on an antidepressant until you have reached optimun dose and remission. Once remission is reached (absence of despressive symptoms) one needs to stay on an antidepressant for a further 6 months (at least) to avoid a recurrance or relapse. So, 2 weeks at 250mg may not be enough and you should probably wait at least another 2 weeks before giving up on the Wellbutrin.
>
>
>
> Good luck and hang in there. - CamThank you so much, Cam.
Paige
Posted by kazoo on May 20, 2001, at 1:10:17
In reply to dopamine and crying...CAM maybe?, posted by Paige on May 18, 2001, at 18:26:17
> Does anyone have any scientific based knowledge or otherwise
> regarding dopamine and or noradrenaline induced
> crying? Maybe a better question is, what is released
> chemically when you cry or pre-crying? I want to
> know if there is any validity to my experience, belief
> and minimal research that perhaps Wellbutrin may very
> well have this as a rare side effect for those
> who are med sensitive, otherwise I am worse than I
> thought.
>
> Thanks for help
> PaigeDear Paige:
Maybe you need to cry. Maybe crying is a kind of emotional catharsis for you (it's good to purge once in a while). Crying is as normal and natural as laughing. It's funny how nobody mentions they're laughing too much, or are having laughing spells. Personally, I put both "acts" on the same level of emotional release. So go ahead, and cry all you want, for cryin' out loud (no pun intended).
I stay away from people who don't cry (or laugh, for that matter).
(a dramatic) kazoo
Posted by Paige on May 20, 2001, at 6:34:58
In reply to Re: dopamine and crying...CAM maybe? » Paige, posted by kazoo on May 20, 2001, at 1:10:17
Dear Kazoo,
You make a very good point. And I agree. I have to
say I love laughing a whole lot more !! I make
myself laugh ususally - while driving no less!
Sometimes, when you feel this way (just plain ole'down)
you can't help but want to make yourself laugh.
Anyway, and anyhow.You gave good advice and I thank you very much.
I do cry alot. I mean 4 years ago was very strange
and the psychoogist thought I was having a breakdown.
I simply could not stop crying. Also, I had had
surgery (sodium penothal and all (sp) and woke up
crying...talk about a truth serum.. so this is
strange to me, very strange and I know it comes from
a place a pain, I am not just shedding tears for
no reason although that happens too. I just feel
like I am going to dehydrate at some point soon.
But awaking after the surgery and crying was
a key thing for me. Since 4 years ago it just
has not stoppped. Celexa stopped it, and I liked
the ability to me a whole lot more social on Celexa.
That I loved, because I am very shy, but he side effects
were the pits. Wellbutrin....well....I guess i have
to get back on it. It is so nice not awaking at 4am
though.I know crying is okay. Most people I know would not
think of it. I actually have a semi-friend now, was a
good friend until I went into this depression,(funny
how they vanish...and at the worst time!) who said
to me to be vulnerable and that it was okay? Now,
I don't know about you, but most people I know who are
depressed are as vulnerable as they get!I have rambled, I am sorry , Kazoo.
Thank you for your thoughts and support. IT's needed.
Paige
Posted by niss on May 20, 2001, at 14:10:39
In reply to dopamine and crying...CAM maybe?, posted by Paige on May 18, 2001, at 18:26:17
Hi Paige,
I have been told, more times than I can count by doctors, that therapy should also be included with any type of medications for mood enhancement. Or else they will just not work right. Basically, what I have been told, is that the medications are just a tool to help along with the therapy.
There have got to be reasons for your crying. You are suffering perhaps and sometimes we do not realize it when we are suffering/hurting. Sometimes we repress feelings because they are so unpleasant to deal with. This is what needs to be addressed. Perhaps changing the medication would also help. Especially if you feel it is making you cry more.
Here are a few suggestions of things you can do to help yourself along in this process:
1)Exercise (yoga,aerobics, etc..something with other people around...somewhere where you feel comfortable) Linda Evans fitness centers are located everywhere and they are established ONLY for women. People go in sweats and t-shirts and it is a very comfortable environment. They have yoga,pilates,etc...all of which stetch the muscles, increase breathing and oxygen to the brain...which, I promise, you will find incredibly helpful. Scientifically proven to help with depression, etc..2- Hypnosis tapes. Self hypnosis tapes. There is a website that has a couple of hundered tapes. The guy who owns this company was on the news with Tom Brokaw about the powerful effects of his tapes. The site is www.hypnovision.com.
3- Diet; caffein,sugar,preservatives are all things that, when eliminated or reduced, help tremendously.
- remember that our brains function off of everything we do to our bodies and everything we put into them. So, the better we can do for our bodies, the better we do for our brains. Very logical. And of course with the therapy to focus on the underlying issues that are causing you to cry so much.
3- see if there is a genetic history of depression in your family. If not, then even more of a reason to figure focus on you and what pain you may have. Again, sometimes we do not even realize what/when/why things bother us. But our silly brains to and then things go haywire. We sometimes are almost forced to deal with issues by our bodies/brains reactions.
I guess that is it for now. I hope this helps.
Have a nice weekend!
Anissa
:)>
Does anyone have any scientific based knowledge or otherwise
> regarding dopamine and or noradrenaline induced
> crying? Maybe a better question is, what is released
> chemically when you cry or pre-crying? I want to
> know if there is any validity to my experience, belief
> and minimal research that perhaps Wellbutrin may very
> well have this as a rare side effect for those
> who are med sensitive, otherwise I am worse than I
> thought.
>
> Thanks for help
> Paige
Posted by Joy on May 20, 2001, at 17:58:50
In reply to Re: dopamine and crying...CAM maybe?, posted by niss on May 20, 2001, at 14:10:39
I cried after day 12 on Serzone; I just had crying jags and was very upset all the time. I never had this on Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa or Prozac. My pdoc took me off Serzone after 4 weeks; I had the worst insomnia ever, and cried all the time on Serzone. This med was not for me. Paxil worked for me [no crying joags][but had side effects] and Prozac works and keeps me balanced, and contented pretty much. I disagree with some of the other postings; you're not supposed to feel upset and crying all the time on an AD that's supposed to help you. Just my two cents. Why stay on another 4 weeks if you're crying all the time?
Joy
> Hi Paige,
>
> I have been told, more times than I can count by doctors, that therapy should also be included with any type of medications for mood enhancement. Or else they will just not work right. Basically, what I have been told, is that the medications are just a tool to help along with the therapy.
>
> There have got to be reasons for your crying. You are suffering perhaps and sometimes we do not realize it when we are suffering/hurting. Sometimes we repress feelings because they are so unpleasant to deal with. This is what needs to be addressed. Perhaps changing the medication would also help. Especially if you feel it is making you cry more.
>
> Here are a few suggestions of things you can do to help yourself along in this process:
> 1)Exercise (yoga,aerobics, etc..something with other people around...somewhere where you feel comfortable) Linda Evans fitness centers are located everywhere and they are established ONLY for women. People go in sweats and t-shirts and it is a very comfortable environment. They have yoga,pilates,etc...all of which stetch the muscles, increase breathing and oxygen to the brain...which, I promise, you will find incredibly helpful. Scientifically proven to help with depression, etc..
>
> 2- Hypnosis tapes. Self hypnosis tapes. There is a website that has a couple of hundered tapes. The guy who owns this company was on the news with Tom Brokaw about the powerful effects of his tapes. The site is www.hypnovision.com.
>
> 3- Diet; caffein,sugar,preservatives are all things that, when eliminated or reduced, help tremendously.
>
> - remember that our brains function off of everything we do to our bodies and everything we put into them. So, the better we can do for our bodies, the better we do for our brains. Very logical. And of course with the therapy to focus on the underlying issues that are causing you to cry so much.
>
> 3- see if there is a genetic history of depression in your family. If not, then even more of a reason to figure focus on you and what pain you may have. Again, sometimes we do not even realize what/when/why things bother us. But our silly brains to and then things go haywire. We sometimes are almost forced to deal with issues by our bodies/brains reactions.
>
> I guess that is it for now. I hope this helps.
>
> Have a nice weekend!
>
> Anissa
> :)
>
> >
>
>
> Does anyone have any scientific based knowledge or otherwise
> > regarding dopamine and or noradrenaline induced
> > crying? Maybe a better question is, what is released
> > chemically when you cry or pre-crying? I want to
> > know if there is any validity to my experience, belief
> > and minimal research that perhaps Wellbutrin may very
> > well have this as a rare side effect for those
> > who are med sensitive, otherwise I am worse than I
> > thought.
> >
> > Thanks for help
> > Paige
Posted by Paige on May 20, 2001, at 19:29:51
In reply to Re: dopamine and crying...CAM maybe?, posted by Joy on May 20, 2001, at 17:58:50
> Hi Joy,
thanks for your info. Did the doctor tell you
why you had the crying spells, or jags? I am just curious.
I don't know where I sit with meds anymore, but
I do know I am not a happy person. Some is
enviro, some genetic and some unknown, but soon
I need to have a life without all the tears. They
come too easy, even when not on meds. I have
alot of underlying pain. Having a rough time, a real
rough time.I am glad you found something that works for you.
I hope it continues to work for you. Keep me apprised.
But do let me know of your doc mentioned why
Serzone made you feel the way you did. My pdoc
won't prescribe it for me. He says it is his least
favorite, but he did not elaborate.thanks, Joy.
Paige
Posted by Paige on May 20, 2001, at 19:43:52
In reply to Re: dopamine and crying...CAM maybe?, posted by niss on May 20, 2001, at 14:10:39
Hi Anissa,
thank you for such a thoughtful email. I agree with all
that you have mentioned. The key one for me is to
be amongst people, but I need people I can trust.
So yes I have alot of issues, mostly familial, but
with a thick icing of pain and I get hurt easily and
the crying really never has stopped its intensity
for the last 4 years. I have a lot of hurt, that
is the bottom line.I go to therapy right now 2x a month for 2hr visits
when I can afford it. I see the shrink here and
there (although I think he could help more) for
meds, but I wish he would be a bit more human and
talk like I am a person versus a molecule.I exercise mucho ( workout in the a.m. for 1 .5 hours)
and I work outdoors, get all that sun and am a quasi-
vegetarian to boot. I barely have a cocktail, and
I have no other vice except for it appears, as of late,
my pain. So I do all the right things and I am still
a wreck.My dad was very depressed. My mother denies she ever
was or could be. Father was an alcoholic..the rest
is easy to figure out. SO, some genetics, some
enviro.I just feel very sad, very lonely most if not 98%
of the time and this contributes bigttime to
my demise, I know this for sure.Well, then you got an earful....sorry about that. But
I couldn't contain myself.Ya' know I volunteer for 4 hrs a week on an organic
farm with the developmentally challenged/disabled
(I don't know p.c. word) and this one woman said to me
the other day (a resident who lived in London for
12 years before her parents sent her away to this place)
"don't get your knickers in a twist." I just about fell
into the compost bin. This is ultimately what
I am trying to not to do, is get my knickers in a twist.
I will add she said this when she saw me correcting some
of her work because she can already tell I have a
set of problems! I am compulsive, things need to be'as perfect
as one can get them, especially plants if they are going to live!Thanks for your help. Keep in touch.
Paige...no tears today, not yet.
Posted by niss on May 21, 2001, at 14:10:04
In reply to Re: dopamine and crying » niss, posted by Paige on May 20, 2001, at 19:43:52
>Hi Paige,
Thank you for your response. I was thinking about this yesterday while I was driving and then suddenly thought that maybe I was out of line. What do I know, right :) Anyway, I was also thinking that maybe that perhaps your hormones were out of whack..so to speak...possible?
Also, in regards to your current doctor. I have been told by doctors that actual psychiastrist's (pardon the spelling...just woke up..brain still slow) that they really are not the ones that should do the counseling (therapy work). The should prescribe the medication and that is it. Generally a counselor should be the specialist in the therapy area. which actualy might save you money. If you saw your psychiatrist once a month and a therapist once a week, that would be better. Many counselors work on a sliding scale.
Just something to think about :)I hope you have a wonderful day :)
anissa
Hi Anissa,
>
> thank you for such a thoughtful email. I agree with all
> that you have mentioned. The key one for me is to
> be amongst people, but I need people I can trust.
> So yes I have alot of issues, mostly familial, but
> with a thick icing of pain and I get hurt easily and
> the crying really never has stopped its intensity
> for the last 4 years. I have a lot of hurt, that
> is the bottom line.
>
> I go to therapy right now 2x a month for 2hr visits
> when I can afford it. I see the shrink here and
> there (although I think he could help more) for
> meds, but I wish he would be a bit more human and
> talk like I am a person versus a molecule.
>
> I exercise mucho ( workout in the a.m. for 1 .5 hours)
> and I work outdoors, get all that sun and am a quasi-
> vegetarian to boot. I barely have a cocktail, and
> I have no other vice except for it appears, as of late,
> my pain. So I do all the right things and I am still
> a wreck.
>
> My dad was very depressed. My mother denies she ever
> was or could be. Father was an alcoholic..the rest
> is easy to figure out. SO, some genetics, some
> enviro.
>
> I just feel very sad, very lonely most if not 98%
> of the time and this contributes bigttime to
> my demise, I know this for sure.
>
> Well, then you got an earful....sorry about that. But
> I couldn't contain myself.
>
> Ya' know I volunteer for 4 hrs a week on an organic
> farm with the developmentally challenged/disabled
> (I don't know p.c. word) and this one woman said to me
> the other day (a resident who lived in London for
> 12 years before her parents sent her away to this place)
> "don't get your knickers in a twist." I just about fell
> into the compost bin. This is ultimately what
> I am trying to not to do, is get my knickers in a twist.
> I will add she said this when she saw me correcting some
> of her work because she can already tell I have a
> set of problems! I am compulsive, things need to be'as perfect
> as one can get them, especially plants if they are going to live!
>
> Thanks for your help. Keep in touch.
>
> Paige...no tears today, not yet.
Posted by Joy on May 21, 2001, at 22:38:32
In reply to Re: dopamine and crying...CAM maybe? » Joy, posted by Paige on May 20, 2001, at 19:29:51
Paige,
A lot of pdocs don't like Serone. It doesn't work for a lot of their patients, and dosing is real pain, I am on 40 me Prozac which realy helps me.
Joy> > Hi Joy,
>
> thanks for your info. Did the doctor tell you
> why you had the crying spells, or jags? I am just curious.
> I don't know where I sit with meds anymore, but
> I do know I am not a happy person. Some is
> enviro, some genetic and some unknown, but soon
> I need to have a life without all the tears. They
> come too easy, even when not on meds. I have
> alot of underlying pain. Having a rough time, a real
> rough time.
>
> I am glad you found something that works for you.
> I hope it continues to work for you. Keep me apprised.
> But do let me know of your doc mentioned why
> Serzone made you feel the way you did. My pdoc
> won't prescribe it for me. He says it is his least
> favorite, but he did not elaborate.
>
> thanks, Joy.
>
> Paige
Posted by Paige on May 22, 2001, at 4:52:53
In reply to Re: dopamine and crying, posted by niss on May 21, 2001, at 14:10:04
Hi Anissa,
thanks again for writing. Personally, I am out of whack,
not merely hormonal. All kidding aside, I had that
checked, everything is balanced (somehow just saying
everything is balanced is funny to me!)My stuff goes way back. Talked with therapist yesterday
and she said the reasons it is to her genetic and
enviro, but genetic primarily 1) family history
of depression 2)alcoholism is family 3)the chronic
suffering I have and length of time.I was trying to get away from the genetic part because
it sounds so bloody permanent, but alas I cannot.
My therapist is wonderful. I like my shrink. I get
pissed off at him, but he is very likeable. What is
good is that he is very funny and I always feel
better from that (makes sense, I did a term
paper on placebos in college for my psych class
and laughter does play a key role...) So I want
more of that, not drugs. But that is not why I go.
My theory is this, everyone has something to share, some
light to shed on something and if you see people
day in and day out who are depressed, there must
be something more you can and WANT to offer them
besides pills.You know what myproblem is? Too much idealism and
expectation where it does not belong. Also a moderate
dose of denial!I had an okay day. Thank you for wishing me well. Please
keep in touch. And have a beauty yourself!paige
Posted by Paige on May 23, 2001, at 21:14:26
In reply to Re: dopamine and crying...CAM maybe?, posted by stjames on May 18, 2001, at 22:34:41
Hi James,
thank you for your advice. i was on Wellbutrin for
several weeks -6 maybe at 150 mg, then went to another
100 and that is when the crying started. I thought
maybe it could also be the lack of enough sleep,
wellbutrin has me up at 4am and also maybe the klonopin.
What do you think. I have high anxiety and struggle
with focus and things i have to sort out. My doc
is convinced these are signs od depression, i think
it may be ADD, he said depression can cause signs
of add. I have had trouble all my life thinking straight
and sorting things out. I get frustrated and give up.
What is this? Do you have any advice? i am searching.
I see him on the 14th of June. He keeps wanting to prescribe anti-
depressants nothing for ADD, but my respose to WB was
mostly positive.Suggestions? Thanks if you have the time.
Best,
Paige
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
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