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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by anonymous on February 25, 1999, at 15:48:52
In reply to Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by Pat on February 24, 1999, at 19:06:15
> I have been under treatment for depression, anxiety and insomina for some time now. Every drug I've tried has had unacceptable levels of side effects for me. On Prozac, I got gastritis from high levels of acid. I had sexual side effects with Paxil. I had relentless insomnia on Zoloft. Deseryl and Serzone both made me freaked out and sleepless. I gained 7 pounds in one week on Remeron, three pounds week two, and so on. I am so tired of all the sleepless nights trying new meds that keep me awake and all the disappointment when new meds make me sick or fat or whatever. At this point, my psychiatrist wants me to come in to the office early next week to try another drug. I'm considering looking at alternative therapy like acupuncture and chinese herbs. I've never had panic attacks (except associated with drug withdrawal from some of these meds), I've never been so low I couldn't work, eat, take care of my kids, etc. I've been on drugs to sleep for so long I don't even know any more if I still would have insomnia or not, if I wasn't dependent on one drug or another to sleep (most recently atavan). Does anyone have any experience with alternative therapies for milder cases like mine? Has anyone EVER gotten any treatment for depression that worked without horrible side effects? I'm really torn about whether to continue with the psyciatrist or to just give up.
Many side effects go away with time. Your body adapts to them and they disappear. If you have the sexual side effects, try Wellbutrin. You might also consider Zantac with Prozac to help with the acid. Did you take it on a full stomach? I think you may be addicted to sleepers, too, and this doesn't help. Tolerance, you know.
Posted by bigbertha on February 26, 1999, at 15:54:17
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by anonymous on February 25, 1999, at 15:48:52
Pat-
Stay away from "oriental" herbs and the like. Most
of them have not been evaluated for purity, homogenity,
etc. Some have been found to contain high levels of
lead, arsenic and other tasty ingredients!I think Anon. had some good points, especially about
your sleep problem - if you're hooked on stuff like
xanax/ativan, you might have to spend a couple of
days in a hospital/clinic setting to clear your system.
Most persons cannot do this on their own, even if they
have been taking these meds legitimately.
Posted by Pat on February 27, 1999, at 10:44:03
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by bigbertha on February 26, 1999, at 15:54:17
Big Bertha and Anon - Thanks for taking the time to respond. I've stopped all drugs for now (just the last 3 days). I haven't been able to sleep well yet, but so far, that's the only problem. I realize I may be in for bigger problems, but I gotta try. I took prozac with acid suppressors, but got severe gastritis. Had sexual side effects with zoloft and paxil, as well as insomnia on those meds. I blew up like a balloon on remeron. Serzone and deseryl made me absolutely panic stricken and crazy...on and on. My original insomnia problem wasn't nearly as bad as the one caused by withdrawl from the medications they put me on to cure it. At least I was sleeping some hours a night, instead of none. I can't even remember anymore how bad my depression was - do I really need all this medication?
Posted by anonymous on February 28, 1999, at 16:20:47
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by Pat on February 27, 1999, at 10:44:03
> Big Bertha and Anon - Thanks for taking the time to respond. I've stopped all drugs for now (just the last 3 days). I haven't been able to sleep well yet, but so far, that's the only problem. I realize I may be in for bigger problems, but I gotta try. I took prozac with acid suppressors, but got severe gastritis. Had sexual side effects with zoloft and paxil, as well as insomnia on those meds. I blew up like a balloon on remeron. Serzone and deseryl made me absolutely panic stricken and crazy...on and on. My original insomnia problem wasn't nearly as bad as the one caused by withdrawl from the medications they put me on to cure it. At least I was sleeping some hours a night, instead of none. I can't even remember anymore how bad my depression was - do I really need all this medication?
What about Wellbutrin? If you truly have major depression and have had several episodes, it WILL come back. You'll need at least one antidepressant.
Posted by MA on February 28, 1999, at 23:27:54
In reply to Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by Pat on February 24, 1999, at 19:06:15
> I have been under treatment for depression, anxiety and insomina for some time now. Every drug I've tried has had unacceptable levels of side effects for me. On Prozac, I got gastritis from high levels of acid. I had sexual side effects with Paxil. I had relentless insomnia on Zoloft. Deseryl and Serzone both made me freaked out and sleepless. I gained 7 pounds in one week on Remeron, three pounds week two, and so on. I am so tired of all the sleepless nights trying new meds that keep me awake and all the disappointment when new meds make me sick or fat or whatever. At this point, my psychiatrist wants me to come in to the office early next week to try another drug. I'm considering looking at alternative therapy like acupuncture and chinese herbs. I've never had panic attacks (except associated with drug withdrawal from some of these meds), I've never been so low I couldn't work, eat, take care of my kids, etc. I've been on drugs to sleep for so long I don't even know any more if I still would have insomnia or not, if I wasn't dependent on one drug or another to sleep (most recently atavan). Does anyone have any experience with alternative therapies for milder cases like mine? Has anyone EVER gotten any treatment for depression that worked without horrible side effects? I'm really torn about whether to continue with the psyciatrist or to just give up.
I would go real easy on medications if you say you have a MILD case of depression.
My philosophy is: If taking the medication is making you feel worse than the original symptoms, don't continue taking that drug.
Also, what I have found over the years is that many doctors increase the dosage of an antidepressant too quickly. I truly believe that with me, a lower dose is a more effective dose. If the average dose of Prozac is 20 mg, 10 mg will usually work for me. If I need to increase the dosage I will only do so if I am not having any side effects.
I was increased on Effexor and Zoloft too quickly and I became more and more suicidal. my doctor thought that the depression was getting worse, yet once I started tapering the dose, I felt better almost immediately.
You may be very, very sensitive to the medication so take the lowest dose possible and hold it there until you notice no effect then increase it slowly, holding at the lowest dose until you tolerate that level, then increase again, until you feel better. This takes alot longer but you will not have anywhere near the side effects on highler levels.
Posted by Pat on March 1, 1999, at 18:05:16
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by MA on February 28, 1999, at 23:27:54
> Thank you both for responding. I don't know anything about Wellbutrin, but I'll look it up. The suggestion about starting at low doses is a good one too, but believe it or not, because of my history, they do start me on low doses. I can never seem to tolerate even low doses. I think I have to find out what I would feel like on NO drugs in my brain at all for a while. If I get majorly depressed, I would go back to the psychiatrist immediately for sure. How long does it take for the effects of an antidepressant to get out of your brain - anybody know?
Posted by anonymous on March 1, 1999, at 20:45:55
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by Pat on March 1, 1999, at 18:05:16
> > Thank you both for responding. I don't know anything about Wellbutrin, but I'll look it up. The suggestion about starting at low doses is a good one too, but believe it or not, because of my history, they do start me on low doses. I can never seem to tolerate even low doses. I think I have to find out what I would feel like on NO drugs in my brain at all for a while. If I get majorly depressed, I would go back to the psychiatrist immediately for sure. How long does it take for the effects of an antidepressant to get out of your brain - anybody know?
Each drug has a different half life. Some stick around for quite a while. A wash out can take 6 weeks just to be sure. The problem with waiting till your symptoms come back is that studies show that people with depression don't see the problem coming back. If you have close significant others that can help you watch, then good. But don't do it alone.
Posted by jane on March 1, 1999, at 21:41:58
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by anonymous on March 1, 1999, at 20:45:55
good advice from others. But if you don't have
significant others to watch over you when you go off meds - maybe reach an agreement with your doctor to check in via quick phone call at a specified time and date - this helped me survive a tough time but I don't know if all doctors would be receptive to this idea. good luck-jane
Posted by Pam on March 2, 1999, at 3:31:16
In reply to Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by Pat on February 24, 1999, at 19:06:15
> I have been under treatment for depression, anxiety and insomina for some time now. Every drug I've tried has had unacceptable levels of side effects for me. On Prozac, I got gastritis from high levels of acid. I had sexual side effects with Paxil. I had relentless insomnia on Zoloft. Deseryl and Serzone both made me freaked out and sleepless. I gained 7 pounds in one week on Remeron, three pounds week two, and so on. I am so tired of all the sleepless nights trying new meds that keep me awake and all the disappointment when new meds make me sick or fat or whatever. At this point, my psychiatrist wants me to come in to the office early next week to try another drug. I'm considering looking at alternative therapy like acupuncture and chinese herbs. I've never had panic attacks (except associated with drug withdrawal from some of these meds), I've never been so low I couldn't work, eat, take care of my kids, etc. I've been on drugs to sleep for so long I don't even know any more if I still would have insomnia or not, if I wasn't dependent on one drug or another to sleep (most recently atavan). Does anyone have any experience with alternative therapies for milder cases like mine? Has anyone EVER gotten any treatment for depression that worked without horrible side effects? I'm really torn about whether to continue with the psyciatrist or to just give up.
>>>> I went through almost every antidepressant
until I landed on Celexa. It is a miracle drug
for me. No side effects at all and my depression
is under control for the first time. A question
for you --- did you stay on the other drugs long
enough so see if the side effects would go away?
Also, I found that pdocs can often start us on
a dose that is too high for us to tolerate.
Simply reducing the dose to the bare minimum and
then building up from there if needed, reduces the
potential for side effects by letting you get
used to the drug slowly and keeps you from
drug hopping every week.
Posted by Elizabeth on March 2, 1999, at 18:54:15
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by bigbertha on February 26, 1999, at 15:54:17
> I think Anon. had some good points, especially about
> your sleep problem - if you're hooked on stuff like
> xanax/ativan, you might have to spend a couple of
> days in a hospital/clinic setting to clear your system.
> Most persons cannot do this on their own, even if they
> have been taking these meds legitimately.While I agree that you shouldn't try to quit taking these drugs on your own, I don't think you have to be hospitalized to do it. It should be done very slowly, though, to minimize rebound anxiety/insomnia. Because there is a small risk of seizures (as when stopping any anticonvulsant drug), you should only do this under a doctor's supervision, but it doesn't have to be as an inpatient.
Posted by shelley on March 2, 1999, at 19:21:26
In reply to getting off benzos, posted by Elizabeth on March 2, 1999, at 18:54:15
> > I think Anon. had some good points, especially about
> > your sleep problem - if you're hooked on stuff like
> > xanax/ativan, you might have to spend a couple of
> > days in a hospital/clinic setting to clear your system.
> > Most persons cannot do this on their own, even if they
> > have been taking these meds legitimately.
>
> While I agree that you shouldn't try to quit taking these drugs on your own, I don't think you have to be hospitalized to do it. It should be done very slowly, though, to minimize rebound anxiety/insomnia. Because there is a small risk of seizures (as when stopping any anticonvulsant drug), you should only do this under a doctor's supervision, but it doesn't have to be as an inpatient.I am tapering off of benzos with the help of my doctor out-patient. Although it's not always comfortable (I had a panic attack today), it's working, a quarter of a tablet at a time. We've talked about going in-patient if necessary, but as long as am "okay" and not "too uncomfortable," she prefers this route for now. -Shelley
Posted by Pat on March 3, 1999, at 13:47:29
In reply to Re: getting off benzos, posted by shelley on March 2, 1999, at 19:21:26
Thanks for more responses, everyone. What are benzos? I missed something there. I've been drug free for one week now. I've been on the edge of having an anxiety attack three or four times, but forced myself not to go over the edge. I feel like I'm not sleeping at all, even though I know I must be sleeping at least a few hours a night. Does anybody have a comment on whether the withdrawal effects will get any worse after one full week, or will they just stay the same now and then taper off? I'm supposed to see the psychiatrist this coming Tuesday, and I feel like he is going to try to persuade me to go back on some drug "just in case". I feel anxiety that the withdrawal may get worse than it has been this week. Any thoughts/help on this?
Posted by Elizabeth on March 3, 1999, at 21:30:15
In reply to Re: getting off benzos, posted by Pat on March 3, 1999, at 13:47:29
> Thanks for more responses, everyone. What are benzos? I missed something there. I've been drug free for one week now. I've been on the edge of having an anxiety attack three or four times, but forced myself not to go over the edge. I feel like I'm not sleeping at all, even though I know I must be sleeping at least a few hours a night. Does anybody have a comment on whether the withdrawal effects will get any worse after one full week, or will they just stay the same now and then taper off? I'm supposed to see the psychiatrist this coming Tuesday, and I feel like he is going to try to persuade me to go back on some drug "just in case". I feel anxiety that the withdrawal may get worse than it has been this week. Any thoughts/help on this?
Hi Pat. "Benzo" is short for "benzodiazepine" - drugs like Valium, Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin, Dalmane, Restoril, Halcion, etc.
I don't think that withdrawal symptoms will get worse; they should improve over time, rather.
Take care.
Posted by Carol on March 4, 1999, at 7:24:42
In reply to Re: getting off benzos, posted by Pat on March 3, 1999, at 13:47:29
> Thanks for more responses, everyone. What are benzos? I missed something there. I've been drug free for one week now. I've been on the edge of having an anxiety attack three or four times, but forced myself not to go over the edge. I feel like I'm not sleeping at all, even though I know I must be sleeping at least a few hours a night. Does anybody have a comment on whether the withdrawal effects will get any worse after one full week, or will they just stay the same now and then taper off? I'm supposed to see the psychiatrist this coming Tuesday, and I feel like he is going to try to persuade me to go back on some drug "just in case". I feel anxiety that the withdrawal may get worse than it has been this week. Any thoughts/help on this?
Pat,
At the point you're at, I'd probably ask the Dr. for an appointment in another 2 weeks, to let most everything get out of your system. The only thing that might hold on longer than that would be prozac, which for me had a VERY long duration. At the end of the 2 weeks, with your background, I would start at a low dose of something different, like Wellbutrin (personal experience) or Celexa (new to me). You could ask your Dr. to start at 1/2 the usual starting dose, or at the minimum pill size. For example, Wellbutrin comes in 75 mg SR, which will release over 12 hrs or so. Try it for at least 1 week (2 weeks would be better) to see if the side effects go away or diminish in severity. Only increase the dose when the side effects are tolerable.Milk and carbohydrates at bedtime can help with sleep. My favorite carbo is Pop-tarts, but a bowl of cereal also works. Obviously, this can also lead to weight gain, so you'll need to watch how much of this you do. I've also had warm (not hot) showers help me go to sleep.
Keep on trying, and don't give up. The hardest part at this stage is hoping that the next trial will work, and then not being too disappointed when it doesn't do what's needed.
Take care
Carol
Posted by Robbie on March 7, 1999, at 15:04:30
In reply to Re: getting off benzos, side effects, posted by Carol on March 4, 1999, at 7:24:42
A couple of questions for anyone familiar with Benzos. I seem to
function much better on a milligram of Ativan a day. The reason
being I have slight agitation and racing thought problems. I would
like to know if there is ANY non-addictive alternative to Ativan and
Benzos in general. Secondly, if there is not a viable substitution
for the Ativan how long can a person take the drug without experiencing
the withdrawl symtoms I have read about and can a person take it off
and on for many years.Any and all responses are greatly appreciated.
Posted by Pat on March 8, 1999, at 12:28:32
In reply to Re: getting off benzos, side effects, posted by Robbie on March 7, 1999, at 15:04:30
Robbie - Saw my dr today and his opinion is that if you sleep well and feel well on 1 mg ativan a day, why not take it? I was set on getting off that drug, but now I don't know. I'm trying celexa to see if I can get long term relief for depression and insomnia, but in the meantime, he thinks I should use the ativan if it helps me. When I just recently tried to go off it, I didn't take it for two full weeks and the insomnia was really bad.
Posted by shelley on March 8, 1999, at 20:17:03
In reply to Re: getting off benzos, side effects, posted by Pat on March 8, 1999, at 12:28:32
Robbie - I don't have any experience with Ativan, but alot with other benzos. Personally, I take klonopin daily as you described, for general anxiety, racing, etc. It keeps the edges balanced. And I expect I'll take it or something like it the rest of my life, as long as it causes no harm. I don't think the "addiction" element is essentially harmful as long as the med is helping you some!! -Shell
Posted by Pat on March 11, 1999, at 16:19:13
In reply to Re: getting off benzos, side effects, posted by shelley on March 8, 1999, at 20:17:03
>Thanks everyone for being so nice. I'm finally set on a course I think will work for me again. I'm gonna try elavil starting at 50mg daily. I've been on this med before and did well, so I'm not expecting any trouble with it now. I think it may be enough for my mild depression. Maybe we've been treating it too aggressively all long.
Posted by Gene on March 22, 1999, at 22:34:38
In reply to getting off benzos, posted by Elizabeth on March 2, 1999, at 18:54:15
I have been on Atavan for avout 10 years for a sleep disorder. I hardly ever go over 1 mg and never have any problems. I have gone without this medication for about three weeks at a time and then back on it to get my sleep. I think my internal clock is out of sync with normal time. I usually awake at 2:00 AM as if an alarm was ringing. Then it is awake for about three to four hours and then back to sleep for two hours and up for the day. I think it can be addictive if you have that personality. I would prefer to try some natural method instead of drugs to correct this disorder. Any suggestions?
Posted by alan on March 24, 1999, at 0:37:54
In reply to Re: getting off atavan, posted by Gene on March 22, 1999, at 22:34:38
> I have been on Atavan for avout 10 years for a sleep disorder. I hardly ever go over 1 mg and never have any problems. I have gone without this medication for about three weeks at a time and then back on it to get my sleep. I think my internal clock is out of sync with normal time. I usually awake at 2:00 AM as if an alarm was ringing. Then it is awake for about three to four hours and then back to sleep for two hours and up for the day. I think it can be addictive if you have that personality. I would prefer to try some natural method instead of drugs to correct this disorder. Any suggestions?
Palm wine is 'natural'. The tappers get it right out of the tree, and it will put you to sleep just as well as beer. Sorry, whenever I hear the word 'natural', it sets me off. Seriously, you might try something called 'progressive relaxation' or meditation and similar non-drug techniques. Some people have developed great skill at these techniques and use to sleep at will.
Experts: Why isn't progressive relaxation used more? I mean the serious, lengthy training that often led to great voluntary cotrol over anxiety for adept patients/students? Did research eventually discredit the claims that were made for it?
But, as I was saying, there are non-drug techniques that most people can learn which aid sleep.
Posted by star hancock on March 24, 1999, at 3:44:58
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by Pam on March 2, 1999, at 3:31:16
> > I am curious as to whether Celexa has caused stomach and intestinal trouble for anyone. I have been on it since Christmas and it does work well for me but I suffer from continious sour stomach, diarrhea or constipation. I did get an intestinal virus in December but I went to the doctor and it took two weeks but I was a lot better,then after about two more weeks I started having sour stomach again and that's where I am now. The only thing I have changed is to add the Celexa to my medicine regimen. My other drugs I have taken for long enough to eliminate them as the problem. I sure would appreciate hearing from anyone with the same problems. Thank you.
>
> >>>> I went through almost every antidepressant
> until I landed on Celexa. It is a miracle drug
> for me. No side effects at all and my depression
> is under control for the first time. A question
> for you --- did you stay on the other drugs long
> enough so see if the side effects would go away?
> Also, I found that pdocs can often start us on
> a dose that is too high for us to tolerate.
> Simply reducing the dose to the bare minimum and
> then building up from there if needed, reduces the
> potential for side effects by letting you get
> used to the drug slowly and keeps you from
> drug hopping every week.
Posted by Sam on January 15, 2000, at 18:36:48
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by star hancock on March 24, 1999, at 3:44:58
I was initially helped by Celexa, then my depression came back, slowly but surely. I went off the drug without Dr. supervision, taking a week to taper off, and now I am VERY depressed, but my sex drive is better than it had been (!!) and I have flu-like symptoms, symptoms that I have no clue whether they are from a virus or from stopping taking Celexa. I would love to try Well butrin, but the last time I tried it, I had HORRIBLE constipation. Any thoughts, anyone?
Posted by Nan on January 15, 2000, at 19:27:52
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes/celexa, posted by Sam on January 15, 2000, at 18:36:48
Regarding Wellbutrin, I had the same problem with constipation. My doctor suggested dietary changes, and lots of water and exercise. The result? The constipation went away and I lost 50 pounds in about a year. I believe I read the Serzone doesn't have many sexual side effects.
Also I read about some foreign drugs that seem promising. Amineptine (Survector) is a selective dopamin reuptake blocker with good effects on cognitive functioning and motivation. One of the side effects is spontaneous orgasms (maybe this is why a few people abused it). It's only available through mail order from foreign pharmacies. The Dr Bob's Tips section here seems kind of old, but it has a really good discussion of sexual side effects.
You may get better results by combining medications like Celexa and Wellbutrin. If you could take a lower dose of the Wellbutrin, you'd be less likely to get constipated.
Posted by Jack Burt on November 19, 2000, at 17:06:36
In reply to Re: Side Effects and Medication Changes, posted by anonymous on February 25, 1999, at 15:48:52
I want to know the side effects of both Zantac and Newrontin and also I want to know the side effect of the two taken together.
Please advise.
Posted by David1971 on March 23, 2001, at 21:16:09
In reply to Re: More Medication Changes, posted by Pat on March 11, 1999, at 16:19:13
This is a concern of mine, but if it helps, it helps. Ativan, especially, is useful, because it is mild and less addictive than Valium and far less dangerous than Xanax -- which once out me in a seizure when I was depressed and on a lot of it.
I was also told by a doctor that the concerns of "addiction" to Ativan/lorezepam are usually misplaced. 5-6 milligrams a day is usually addictive in the serious sense. I take .5 mg Ativan 2-3 times a day to sleep and when stressed. Given my 15 year history of depression, it has helped now for 3 years straight. Even more so than the anti-depressant. For me, the anxiety was always the worst part of any depressive episode.
Just my experience. As always, check with a doctor.
This is the end of the thread.
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