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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy1 on January 9, 2001, at 11:27:48
My pdoc who is 100 miles away INSISTS I have a local pdoc to work with him in case of any serious/sudden mood changes. After getting over the rejection, I see his point. My quandary is this: my present pdoc knows I take hydrocodone- while he is fairly supportive of the concept, I am self-medicating for anxiety and possibly depression (and it works), the amount I am taking bothers him. I want to add that when manic I stop with no problems. I am concerned that this local pdoc will insist I get substance abuse treatment if I am truthful, but I am a poor liar. I am being compliant with prescribed meds and appts. because I feel lousy. Has anyone felt that they were using a med that had abusive properties and withheld that info? I am not in denial here. Thanks for the input- Judy
Posted by Noa on January 9, 2001, at 15:24:52
In reply to Any opinions please for my ? substance abuse, posted by judy1 on January 9, 2001, at 11:27:48
Judy, does the distant pdoc know about the hydrocodone?
Posted by S. Howard on January 9, 2001, at 20:55:10
In reply to Any opinions please for my ? substance abuse, posted by judy1 on January 9, 2001, at 11:27:48
Ahh, hydrocodone. Very addicting. Do you have refills? If not, that will solve your problem. If you do, maybe your doctor could wean you off the hydrocodone by prescribing smaller doses.
(BTW, nobody can make you get treatment for your substance abuse, they can insist all they want.)If you've been taking hydrocodone for a long time,
I would suggest that you take a little vacation...a week or two in the hospital. I've spent some time on a "substance abuse ward" and it wasn't bad at all. They certainly feed you. If you start to have problems without the hydrocodone, like anxiety or insomnia, they can give you something else for it.
You might want to attend an NA meeting just to see what you think. I wouldn't suggest AA, which was my "follow-up treatment" even though I didn't have a drinking problem. Every single person in the room said they had been "clean and sober" since the last meeting (hard to believe) except for me. I made the mistake of saying, "I had a beer at the ballpark last night." Well, there was a collective gasp and all heads swiveled around to stare at me. Then the speaker started YELLING at me: "You're not very serious about this, are you? ARE YOU?" I couldn't believe it. I thought, oh screw this.
Prehaps NA meetings are run a little differently? I've been considering it myself.
-Gracie
Posted by judy1 on January 9, 2001, at 23:31:51
In reply to Re: Any opinions please for my ? substance abuse, posted by Noa on January 9, 2001, at 15:24:52
Yes, he does. Actually today's session was a disaster, I had called the local pdoc's staff to make sure he did meds and therapy and after my initial evaluation he informed me he just did meds. I cannot conceive of any psychiatrist being aware of my needs in a 15 minute session. I realize that HMOs have changed the practice of psychiatry, however my insurance is willing to pay a psychiatrist for a 50 minute session. So it was home to a tearful conversation with my distant pdoc who promised not to abandon me, asked me to continue- called it a prescription- with the female therapist for my SI and promised to call a local shrink he knows in case I am in crisis. He is an amazing person and worth the 2 hour drive. Take care- Judy
Posted by judy1 on January 9, 2001, at 23:37:55
In reply to Re: Any opinions please for my ? substance abuse, posted by S. Howard on January 9, 2001, at 20:55:10
Hi Gracie,
Perhaps there is some denial here. I get my meds on-line, it avoids multiple docs and lying. My pdoc actually does use it in some treatment-refractive patients with panic disorder, but at very low doses. So he does understand, just has problems with the high dose I use. The only experience I had with NA was the realization I could buy any drug I wanted outside. I wonder if they all are like that. If I begin to feel better (and not manic), I'll try tapering. Thank you- Judy
Posted by Noa on January 11, 2001, at 7:40:30
In reply to Re: Any opinions please for my ? substance abuse » S. Howard, posted by judy1 on January 9, 2001, at 23:37:55
I can see how hydrocodone can be addictive. I took a hydrocone-ibuprofren combo when I was sick with horrible throat pain, and it didn't make the pain stop, but I didn't care!
I believe it was one of the drugs of choice for Sandra Bullock's character in 28 days.
Posted by Marie1 on January 14, 2001, at 13:45:57
In reply to Any opinions please for my ? substance abuse, posted by judy1 on January 9, 2001, at 11:27:48
> Judy1,
I can very much relate to your dilemna, although my drug of choice is phentermine (appetite suppressant). I am being treated for double depression and I swear phentermine makes a difference. (I'm also on prozac and buspar.) I told my pdoc about using phentermine when I first began therapy although I wasn't using it at the time because my supplier had retired. Now I am using it again, but can't tell because he thinks I have an addiction problem. In my case I feel I know more than my pdoc about my state of mind and if this is what it takes to feel better, so be it. I just need to be aware of any signs of serotonin syndrome.
BTW, what insurance do you carry? I'm having to pay $130.00 out of pocket every week for therapy.Marie
Posted by judy1 on January 14, 2001, at 22:48:58
In reply to Re: Any opinions please for my ? substance abuse, posted by Marie1 on January 14, 2001, at 13:45:57
Hi Marie,
You sound knowledgeable about the risks of using an SSRI and phentermine. It's sad that we both feel the need to withhold information like that; obviously you can't be forced into a substance abuse program, maybe you can tell him your fears- I think this might be a trust issue also. Like I said my pdoc is not thrilled with the dose I use but he does understand. After all, until recently morphine was used as an AD, and phentermine (which has an amphetamine structure?) probably is effective in depression. I'm in California which passed a mental health parity law so if a pdoc or therapist is on my HMO plan (pacificare) I only pay $10 a session. My therp is on the plan, my long distance pdoc is not- try $200/hr- but he is always available to me by phone and genuinely cares about my health. I see him once every 2 weeks, and he's arranging someone local under my plan if I'm in crisis. I guess getting the right help is never easy. Take care- Judy
Posted by shellie on January 15, 2001, at 14:06:07
In reply to Any opinions please for my ? substance abuse, posted by judy1 on January 9, 2001, at 11:27:48
Hi Judy. I have sort of a similar problem concerning hydrocodeine. It seems to be the only thing that has been touching my depression for the last year. I have a so called contract with my pdoc to take only 4 per month--premenstually. But there are other times when I feel like I'm not addicted (only because I've been really careful) and think why shouldn't I take it if it helps. I think the idea that I CAN take it if I'm depressed and have to work or be up socially (like a dinner party) is the only reason I have been able to tolerate this depression. The worst that could happen is I get addicted and detox. Otherwise, I am so discouraged about medication failures I would think more seriously about killing myself.
The problem with that idea, says my pdoc, is that taking codeine will prevent an antidepressant from working. I don't know if that is correct. Nardil worked fine most of the time for the several years I've taken it for pain and depression premenstrually.
I am curious how much you are taking a day. I usually take 1/2 of a 75mg (I think that's what it is; it says 7.5/750 on the bottle.
I am also curious where you are able to get it on the web. So far I have been given so much by a former psychiatrist plus some by another doctor that I haven't been worried about getting more. But I'm starting to think about it and the only source I can find on the internet is one with aspirin and a small about of codeine, I think 25mg. (Could you e-mail me to direct me to a website).
Thanks for any information you can give me. Shellie
Posted by judy1 on January 15, 2001, at 21:13:52
In reply to Re: Any opinions please » judy1, posted by shellie on January 15, 2001, at 14:06:07
Hi Shellie,
Are you in California? I'm only asking this because my pdoc actually prescribes 1 lortab- 1/2 tab am and pm (10mg hydrocodone/500APAP) for his treatment resistant panic disordered patients. So what you are taking hardly qualifies as substance abuse. I actually am in the 10-12 pills/day range which is high and I am tolerant as I am with my 6mg/day klonopin which apparently is acceptable. (As was the zyprexa I took at 20mg/day and had an extremely difficult time tapering off) But I digress, I've gotten hydrocodone from pillbox.com- but you have to have a phone interview with a physician and I'm sure all of this is illegal, but then so is a lot of meds gotten through pharmacies w/o scripts. I actually have some ugly MRIs from my car accident 2 years ago, but they were never requested. Docs are much more comfortable with pain related issues than mental ones. So good luck, and I'm really glad you have found something to help you. Take care, Judy
Posted by shellie on January 15, 2001, at 21:53:35
In reply to Re: Any opinions please » shellie, posted by judy1 on January 15, 2001, at 21:13:52
> Hi Shellie,
> Are you in California? I'm only asking this because my pdoc actually prescribes 1 lortab- 1/2 tab am and pm (10mg hydrocodone/500APAP) for his treatment resistant panic disordered patients. So what you are taking hardly qualifies as substance abuse. I actually am in the 10-12 pills/day range which is high and I am tolerant as I am with my 6mg/day klonopin which apparently is acceptable. (As was the zyprexa I took at 20mg/day and had an extremely difficult time tapering off) But I digress, I've gotten hydrocodone from pillbox.com- but you have to have a phone interview with a physician and I'm sure all of this is illegal, but then so is a lot of meds gotten through pharmacies w/o scripts. I actually have some ugly MRIs from my car accident 2 years ago, but they were never requested. Docs are much more comfortable with pain related issues than mental ones. So good luck, and I'm really glad you have found something to help you. Take care, JudyJudy, thanks so much for the info. You really do have to go down though. If you can do it yourself, wean down very slowly. Like really really slowly. For a couple of different hours each day, if I were you, I'd try very hard to tolerate the anxiety and
get myself down. Otherwise you are going to end up in a detox program, which actually may be the best thing, I don't know. The problem with a detox program is that they will get you down to none, rather than allow you to use 1/2 tab am and pm as your doctor prescribes. I detoxed from valium about ten years ago (I was up to 30mg a day), but I did it on a regular pysch unit and it was no big deal They were liberal in their time to get off and I got off much faster than they anticipated. Then they put me on klonopin, and I've never taken more than 4mg a day. (But anxiety is much less a problem for me than depression and dissociation). My pdoc says she is much more worried about hydocodiene than valium; apparently it is much harder to detox and as I said it may interfer with antidepressants.But really, you are on a scary amount and you've got to get yourself down. I know that you just want to feel okay, but it also may be interfering with the therapy you are doing.
Take care, Shellie
Posted by tme on January 16, 2001, at 11:33:34
In reply to Re: Any opinions please » judy1, posted by shellie on January 15, 2001, at 21:53:35
hi judy,
well, i sympathize with your situation. let me share mine.....
i was diagnosed with fibromyalgia...which is muscle spasms and muscle pain. so of course they started me out on pain meds and muscle relaxers. well, this went on for a very long time and of course i became addicted...duh huh? anyway, i tried tapering off, wasnt working. so they set me up with a program to taper off with a "helper". what her cridentials were i dont have a clue. she mostly bitched about my smoking...
anyway, that was a bunch of b.s. so i went into a 2 day detox. not bad huh? well, wasnt bad till i realized that i had labeled myself as a druggie and everytime i went in they put a bright orange sticker on my file, flagging the docs that i probably wanted hydrocodone. so i had a hell of a time with them (docs) for YEARS.....
my advice to you, and you did ask lol. is, if you want off, get off yourself. take a year to do it if thats what it takes. but dont go into detox. then when you do need them they will NOT give them to you!! if youre happy with it, talk to your doc and just tell him/her that they help with your anxiety!! i take klonopin. 1 mg at night, and i was the type that didnt want to open my drapes!! i know this is probably bad advice..not what you wanted to hear, but i just wanted to warn you about being "flagged". no fun. i had a nurse tell me because i had that lil orange sticker that if i was in a car accident that they wouldnt give me appropiate pain meds!!! you can guess how the rest of that converstation went. anyway, for me, im glad to be off of them and out of the "fog". i like just being me.....on 1 mgs of klonopin! =) gl!!! (i say fog, because i was on a huge amount daily!!! even without the muscle relaxers!!)
Posted by judy1 on January 16, 2001, at 15:47:20
In reply to Re: Any opinions please , posted by tme on January 16, 2001, at 11:33:34
Hi,
I'm sorry you got flagged- and with fibromyalgia!, that must be really hard. I have had a similar situation, after my car accident, hydrocodone wasn't working perfectly so I went to a pain management specialist and took ms contin, which of course works really well. Well this ticked off everyone- the orthopedic surgeon, the internist, the shrink, etc. So I worried about having that rep- and truthfully I think I did get it although I saw no stickers on my charts. So I actually got a diffrent internist (I had a PPO) and kind of restarted my medical records. I would never go through detox, I have had some negative experiences with psych wards and I refuse to voluntarily put myself there. If someone could convince me I am doing irreparable damage to myself- my liver is great, and I just feel the psychotropic meds I'm on are worse than hydrocodone for my health. Of course I have guilt, but the positive effect is outweighing the negative right now. Take care, Judy
Posted by tme on January 17, 2001, at 1:19:32
In reply to Re: Any opinions please » tme, posted by judy1 on January 16, 2001, at 15:47:20
hey,
sorry to be blunt, but to hell with the guilt! thats an emotion we can live without huh? lol although it pretty much runs my days..."oh i really should do this or that" the list goes on. hey, if youre happy and healthy, thats alot more than alot of people can say. now go do something for yourself. =) we only go around once!!!
This is the end of the thread.
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