![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by stjames on October 10, 2000, at 22:10:22
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by stjames on October 10, 2000, at 10:30:46
i am not, per se, against GHB. I have read a little on it but have not tried it. I turned down
some last night, as i was also on atavin. From what I have read and observed, the addictive nature takes a while. Once aquited it is a significant addiction. I do think there may be some medical uses and would like to see some studies on GHB.James
Posted by MarkinBoston on October 11, 2000, at 15:44:14
In reply to ghb and it's many benefits, posted by doug cater on October 10, 2000, at 1:30:29
I've wanted to try it and read up on it like I do any med that I consider taking. I hope you are not a law enforcement agent wasting people's time and computer resources fishing for people to arrest. This board is a godsend for folks suffering from years of legitimate serious medical problems that have been through many MDs and many meds seeking solutions.
First the good news:
It promotes level 3 sleep which decline sharply in men over age 25. GHB and level 3 sleep promote higher levels of Human Growth Hormone which improves lean to adipose tissue ratio. HGH declines with level 3 (Slow-wave) sleep. GHB, taken at bedtime help restore a more healthy and youthful sleep pattern. People wake more energetic and refreshed. JAMA published a good study in August or September about age related HGH decline, cortisol increase, and sleep disturbance in men.
Its a potent dopamine antagonist and has helped Parkinson's patients by "saving up" their dopamine at night for more normal daytime levels.
It is a strong relaxer, mentally and physically.
Its cheap to make.
Now the bad news:
An overdose results in so much relaxation that you stop breathing and there is no blocker to reverse GHB (like Narcan does for heroin). The only option is to put you on a vent until the drug clears. Half-life is fortunately only 2-3 hours. Accidental overdose is very likely due to the nearly colorless and tasteless nature of the liquid form. Now that its a Shedule I drug, the only sources are home-made. You won't be getting a pharmacuitically pure version and known concentration as might be the case if it had a lower shedule rating and were made by a real lab.
Also, being highly illegal in the US now, "friends" are less likely to call 911 in time so the victum can be vented before brain death occurs. A paramedic friend of mine has responded to two GHB overdoses - both died.
The drug is an amnesiatic like Rohibnol and is used for date-rape. Another reason for schedule I status. Personally, I think people who give a drug to someone without their knowing it belong in jail with an overly friendly cellmate instead of totally banning a drug that does have some good properties.
Bodybuilders have had much experience with it for its HGH releasing properties and many got addicted, taking it all day long and having a tough time getting off. Opiates also stimulate HGH and some bodybuilders used and had to kick them too. Those guys now just try to obtain the HGH and shoot it IM as part of their stack.
Bottom line:
There are other meds that have less risk of death or jail that can promote sleep, relaxation, and abdominal fat loss.
I disagree with much of the FDA/DEA policies which promote drug company profits and impure, potentially lethal homebrew manufacture of drugs in demand, while impedeing access to needed meds.
The FDA/DEA and AMA really lose credibility with movies like "Reefer Madness", saying steroids don't promote muscle growth, and only listing the negatives (especially at overdose levels) of whatever drug they're trying to clamp down on.The DEA rightly knows that all too often people will put something in their body without knowing or caring what it is, does, or the downsides. Be responsible using drugs and know what's in it, what it does, how much to take, and what not to mix it with. Be aware if you start to develop addiction and ramp down before it gets much harder to quit. Increased tolarance (needing more to get the same effect) is one early signs of future trouble. If you still want to use, take longer "vacations" between use at the original dose instead of moving up to a higher dose which leads to problems.
After the research I did, I decided against trying it. The upsides weren't worth the downsides for me.
Posted by doug cater on October 13, 2000, at 9:29:32
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by MarkinBoston on October 11, 2000, at 15:44:14
That is complete misinformation that GHB alone can result in overdose. There are no recorded instances. It only has overdosed people when mixed with alcohol or barbituates or other downers. I t induces a deep hibernatory state of low respiration which has never, on GHB alone, caused death. All researchers have found it"remarkable for it's lack of toxicity" The coma stories all stem from deliberate misinformation spred by the FDA ato prevent a natural amino acid precursor, found in all warm blooded mammals from being popular here as it is all over Europe where it is used to treat alchoholism, schizophrenia, in hospitals for women having diffuculty in childbirth and widlely amongst private mature citizens as a relaxant, anti-depressant and aphrodesiac. Any comparing it with barbituates is rediculous as you achieve a deep, natural rest on it and have remarkably vivid dreams, not a like with a stuperous knockout drug. The health benefits are innumerable. As a child, you had abudant amounts of it naturally in your system and that amount dwindles as you age, so why not supplement?The FDA us deadset against preventing it's popularity here because of the millions it would take away from their owners, The Pharmaceutical Industry, in sales of sleeping pills, anti-depressants and even things like viagra. You see, GHB was discovered, not invented, it is natural, cannot be patented and therefore can never be any Pharm Industry cashcow. The allegations against it, "daterape drug" (as if anything that can be used to render someone unconscious can't be called that, esdpecially alcohol, that it causes people to fall into comas (totally false,GHB alone , in excessive amounts will induce a deep hibernatory state of low respiration from which one cannot be roused until after 4 hours or so when the "coma" victim mysteriously comes to, revitalized and refreshed.No death has, ever occurred when GHB was the only compound ingested) all of these scare stories stemmed from parties where unwitting people ingested it along with alcohola nd other drugs. They propagated these myths to serve their Industry owners.If the amount of calamities resulting from alcohol or pharmaceutical drugs were given that attention, the tragedies that occur on any given day from their availabilty. But they are rooted in our society and protected by billion dollar industries.Imagine if ProzaC didn't have millions of dollars behind it, it's been to court numerous times charge with driving people into murderous rages and is still out there raking in the bucks for the boys who cooked up it's synthetic, side-effect ridden formula. GHB has no such sugerdaddy and so has been denied us. But the basic ingredient, for those intelligent enough not to fall for the FDA scare stories is still available.That is complete misinformation that GHB alone can result in overdose. There are no recorded instances. It only has overdosed people when mixed with alcohol or barbituates or other downers. I t induces a deep hibernatory state of low respiration which has never, on GHB alone, caused death. All researchers have found it"remarkable for it's lack of toxicity" The coma stories all stem from deliberate misinformation spred by the FDA ato prevent a natural amino acid precursor, found in all warm blooded mammals from being popular here as it is all over Europe where it is used to treat alchoholism, schizophrenia, in hospitals for women having diffuculty in childbirth and widlely amongst private mature citizens as a relaxant, anti-depressant and aphrodesiac. Any comparing it with barbituates is rediculous as you achieve a deep, natural rest on it and have remarkably vivid dreams, not a like with a stuperous knockout drug. The health benefits are innumerable. As a child, you had abudant amounts of it naturally in your system and that amount dwindles as you age, so why not supplement?The FDA us deadset against preventing it's popularity here because of the millions it would take away from their owners, The Pharmaceutical Industry, in sales of sleeping pills, anti-depressants and even things like viagra. You see, GHB was discovered, not invented, it is natural, cannot be patented and therefore can never be any Pharm Industry cashcow. The allegations against it, "daterape drug" (as if anything that can be used to render someone unconscious can't be called that, esdpecially alcohol, that it causes people to fall into comas (totally false,GHB alone , in excessive amounts will induce a deep hibernatory state of low respiration from which one cannot be roused until after 4 hours or so when the "coma" victim mysteriously comes to, revitalized and refreshed.No death has, ever occurred when GHB was the only compound ingested) all of these scare stories stemmed from parties where unwitting people ingested it along with alcohola nd other drugs. They propagated these myths to serve their Industry owners.If the amount of calamities resulting from alcohol or pharmaceutical drugs were given that attention, the tragedies that occur on any given day from their availabilty. But they are rooted in our society and protected by billion dollar industries.Imagine if ProzaC didn't have millions of dollars behind it, it's been to court numerous times charge with driving people into murderous rages and is still out there raking in the bucks for the boys who cooked up it's synthetic, side-effect ridden formula. GHB has no such sugerdaddy and so has been denied us. But the basic ingredient, for those intelligent enough not to fall for the FDA scare stories is still available.
dddThat is complete misinformation that GHB alone can result in overdose. There are no recorded instances. It only has overdosed people when mixed with alcohol or barbituates or other downers. I t induces a deep hibernatory state of low respiration which has never, on GHB alone, caused death. All researchers have found it"remarkable for it's lack of toxicity" The coma stories all stem from deliberate misinformation spred by the FDA ato prevent a natural amino acid precursor, found in all warm blooded mammals from being popular here as it is all over Europe where it is used to treat alchoholism, schizophrenia, in hospitals for women having diffuculty in childbirth and widlely amongst private mature citizens as a relaxant, anti-depressant and aphrodesiac. Any comparing it with barbituates is rediculous as you achieve a deep, natural rest on it and have remarkably vivid dreams, not a like with a stuperous knockout drug. The health benefits are innumerable. As a child, you had abudant amounts of it naturally in your system and that amount dwindles as you age, so why not supplement?The FDA us deadset against preventing it's popularity here because of the millions it would take away from their owners, The Pharmaceutical Industry, in sales of sleeping pills, anti-depressants and even things like viagra. You see, GHB was discovered, not invented, it is natural, cannot be patented and therefore can never be any Pharm Industry cashcow. The allegations against it, "daterape drug" (as if anything that can be used to render someone unconscious can't be called that, esdpecially alcohol, that it causes people to fall into comas (totally false,GHB alone , in excessive amounts will induce a deep hibernatory state of low respiration from which one cannot be roused until after 4 hours or so when the "coma" victim mysteriously comes to, revitalized and refreshed.No death has, ever occurred when GHB was the only compound ingested) all of these scare stories stemmed from parties where unwitting people ingested it along with alcohola nd other drugs. They propagated these myths to serve their Industry owners.If the amount of calamities resulting from alcohol or pharmaceutical drugs were given that attention, the tragedies that occur on any given day from their availabilty. But they are rooted in our society and protected by billion dollar industries.Imagine if ProzaC didn't have millions of dollars behind it, it's been to court numerous times charge with driving people into murderous rages and is still out there raking in the bucks for the boys who cooked up it's synthetic, side-effect ridden formula. GHB has no such sugerdaddy and so has been denied us. But the basic ingredient, for those intelligent enough not to fall for the FDA scare stories is still available.That is complete misinformation that GHB alone can result in overdose. There are no recorded instances. It only has overdosed people when mixed with alcohol or barbituates or other downers. I t induces a deep hibernatory state of low respiration which has never, on GHB alone, caused death. All researchers have found it"remarkable for it's lack of toxicity" The coma stories all stem from deliberate misinformation spred by the FDA ato prevent a natural amino acid precursor, found in all warm blooded mammals from being popular here as it is all over Europe where it is used to treat alchoholism, schizophrenia, in hospitals for women having diffuculty in childbirth and widlely amongst private mature citizens as a relaxant, anti-depressant and aphrodesiac. Any comparing it with barbituates is rediculous as you achieve a deep, natural rest on it and have remarkably vivid dreams, not a like with a stuperous knockout drug. The health benefits are innumerable. As a child, you had abudant amounts of it naturally in your system and that amount dwindles as you age, so why not supplement?The FDA us deadset against preventing it's popularity here because of the millions it would take away from their owners, The Pharmaceutical Industry, in sales of sleeping pills, anti-depressants and even things like viagra. You see, GHB was discovered, not invented, it is natural, cannot be patented and therefore can never be any Pharm Industry cashcow. The allegations against it, "daterape drug" (as if anything that can be used to render someone unconscious can't be called that, esdpecially alcohol, that it causes people to fall into comas (totally false,GHB alone , in excessive amounts will induce a deep hibernatory state of low respiration from which one cannot be roused until after 4 hours or so when the "coma" victim mysteriously comes to, revitalized and refreshed.No death has, ever occurred when GHB was the only compound ingested) all of these scare stories stemmed from parties where unwitting people ingested it along with alcohola nd other drugs. They propagated these myths to serve their Industry owners.If the amount of calamities resulting from alcohol or pharmaceutical drugs were given that attention, the tragedies that occur on any given day from their availabilty. But they are rooted in our society and protected by billion dollar industries.Imagine if ProzaC didn't have millions of dollars behind it, it's been to court numerous times charge with driving people into murderous rages and is still out there raking in the bucks for the boys who cooked up it's synthetic, side-effect ridden formula. GHB has no such sugerdaddy and so has been denied us. But the basic ingredient, for those intelligent enough not to fall for the FDA scare stories is still available.
Posted by AndrewB on October 13, 2000, at 10:39:38
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by doug cater on October 13, 2000, at 9:29:32
GHB is something normally take at night for a restful sleep. It has been noted that for some depressives GHB is alerting rather that sedating. (Maybe this happens with a subgroup of depressives with lack of energy as a symptom.) My experience was that it made me feel wonderfully energetic and lifted all my depression. I just felt wonderful. Problem was, to maintain this effect, regular dosings were needed throughout the day. I dosed myself throughout the day and became addicted. After awhile I would get ill if I missed a dose and fall suddenly asleep if I took too much (the effective dose window narrowed). In the end I became manic and experienced a truly horrifying psychotic episode (ever battled the devil for your soul?). Withdrawal from it was excruciating. Taking GHB once a night may be ok but let me and countless others be testament to this: NEVER take GHB throughout the day- even if it makes you feel better than you've ever felt in your life.
AndrewB
Posted by MarkinBoston on October 13, 2000, at 12:17:06
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by doug cater on October 13, 2000, at 9:29:32
doug,
Chill on the methamphetamine, you're repeating yourself a lot! I do agree with your feelings on the FDA and how it sucks that there is no money to get FDA approval for non-patentable drugs. Even prices of formerly inexpensive generic drugs have skyrocketed.
Yeah, GHB is used often in research studies as allowed for Schedule I drugs and is excellent for restoring sleep architecture and people who take it at bedtime feel great in the morning.
What the FDA calls "abuse potential" is high because it makes one feel good (and healthy due to the Growth Hormone increase), but there is much temptation not to just take it at bedtime.
Ravers rolling E know enough not to drink alchohol, but I've mixed alchohol plenty of times with painkillers because I have a high tolarance for them and the FDA would be suspicious if the doc scripted me what I needed. I've always been highly resistant to painkillers. As a kid, I learned to hate going to the dentist because I never got enough Novacaine and was in pain the whole time he drilled my teeth. Eventually, as an adult and not having gone to a dentist for years, I found a good one and it takes about 3-4 cartriges of Lydocaine to numb me up, and I ofen need a pee break because I matabolize it so quickly. So, yeah, I often mix alchohol when I have an inadequate ration of meds and need to stretch them. It only makes sense then that someone with a limited supply of GHB or GABA would do the same, and that's much more trouble than mixing booze with most other drugs.
As for rape, if the victum was given an OD level of Rohibnol instead of GHB with alchohol, the chance of death would be far, far lower. Still raped, but at least alive.
Lots of people fall for the FDA/EPA propaganda, like my mother. Who watched me suffer in agony the night of the morning I had knee surgery and got sent home with only three lousy Percosets, to be taken "1 every 6 hours if needed". One wasn't doing a thing and she refused to give me a drink because of all the death warnings all over the bottle. The MD didn't respond to pages and my father had to wait until the next day to get a script and plead with the pharmacy to give it to him for me because I was not able to come get it myself. Yeah, experiences like that don't make me love the FDA. I feel they are looking out for drug companies interests more than the public's mostly.
The DEA always looses credibility when they continue to tout the negatives of a drug.
Posted by Ant-Rock on October 13, 2000, at 18:42:11
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by doug cater on October 13, 2000, at 9:29:32
GHB Uncovered :
Almost all of what Doug's post said is right on the money.
#1 GHB is not toxic, and is safely converted to carbon dioxide & water.#2 GHB taken alone is extremely hard to overdose on. Having an LD (lethal human dose) of 300 grams!, while the usual dose taken is 1/2-3 grams. It also does not cause amnesia, unlike the drug Rophynal, which it has been mistakenly confused with by the media.
GHB has been around for over 30 years in Europe, with no known abuse or overdose problems, in fact it is sold over the counter in many countries.
#3 GHB has been used successfully to treat depression, in some cases even resistant-dep., by several doctors. With few exceptions, researchers have also found ghb to be extraordinarily safe and highly effective for treating insomnia, alleviating anxiety/depression, and enhancing cervical dilation during childbirth.
#4 Before the current clampdown, pharmaceutical companies had filed 15 investigational new drug (IND) reports with the FDA. These reports typically show that the drug is safe for clinical trials in humans. Basically a green light for pharm co's to begin large-scale trials.
At an average approval cost of 250-350 millon$ per drug,(remember there were 15 separate IND's for 15 separate drugs=indications or uses.) pharm-co's have collectively bet many millions on GHB's safety and efficacy.#5 Some of these uses were as follows...Improving sleep patterns for narcolepsy/ Reducing Schizophrenic symptoms/ Stimulating natural growth hormone release/ lowering cholesterol/ controlling tardive dyskinesia sympt/ relieving symptoms in Huntingtons/ improving memory problems/ etc.
#6 Why GHB was banned...
To make a long story short, the FDA has resorted to an unprecedented extralegal strategy to suppress GHB. All though they have taken no action to classify GHB as a drug, they repeatedly tell the media that GHB is an "illegal drug". While the FDA works behind the scenes to approve GHB as an "orphan" drug, they simultaneously vilify it in the media as having "no legitamite uses".Instead, the FDA "encouraged" individual states,(which are not governed by the Dietary Supplement Health & Education Act) to pass their own laws against this "new,dangerous,designer,date-rape drug."#7 And finally,
as you read this, the small pharmaceutical company "Orphan Medical" (stock symbol orph), has just recieved final approval to market GHB, trade name "Xyrem",for the treatment of Narcolepsy.
Thats right,
This demonized "drug?" , is about to make its shareholders very rich. This is why GHB was banned from store shelves, where once one could purchase a lab-grade inexpensive healthy tonic.My reason for this post is simple. It sickens and saddens me to see how the gov't force feeds the media whatever it wishes, and instead of checking the actual facts, selling papers and increasing ratings are all that seem to matter. If the truth gets left out, so be it.
Anthony
ps: Most of this info came from reading "GHB-The Natural Mood Enhancer" by Dr.Ward Dean.
Even if if you could care less about ghb, this book gives insight to what the FDA is really all about.
Posted by SLS on October 13, 2000, at 19:26:05
In reply to Re: ghb and THE TRUTH, posted by Ant-Rock on October 13, 2000, at 18:42:11
Dear Anthony,
Thank you.
- Scott
> GHB Uncovered :
> Almost all of what Doug's post said is right on the money.
> #1 GHB is not toxic, and is safely converted to carbon dioxide & water.
>
> #2 GHB taken alone is extremely hard to overdose on. Having an LD (lethal human dose) of 300 grams!, while the usual dose taken is 1/2-3 grams. It also does not cause amnesia, unlike the drug Rophynal, which it has been mistakenly confused with by the media.
>
> GHB has been around for over 30 years in Europe, with no known abuse or overdose problems, in fact it is sold over the counter in many countries.
>
> #3 GHB has been used successfully to treat depression, in some cases even resistant-dep., by several doctors. With few exceptions, researchers have also found ghb to be extraordinarily safe and highly effective for treating insomnia, alleviating anxiety/depression, and enhancing cervical dilation during childbirth.
>
> #4 Before the current clampdown, pharmaceutical companies had filed 15 investigational new drug (IND) reports with the FDA. These reports typically show that the drug is safe for clinical trials in humans. Basically a green light for pharm co's to begin large-scale trials.
> At an average approval cost of 250-350 millon$ per drug,(remember there were 15 separate IND's for 15 separate drugs=indications or uses.) pharm-co's have collectively bet many millions on GHB's safety and efficacy.
>
> #5 Some of these uses were as follows...Improving sleep patterns for narcolepsy/ Reducing Schizophrenic symptoms/ Stimulating natural growth hormone release/ lowering cholesterol/ controlling tardive dyskinesia sympt/ relieving symptoms in Huntingtons/ improving memory problems/ etc.
>
> #6 Why GHB was banned...
> To make a long story short, the FDA has resorted to an unprecedented extralegal strategy to suppress GHB. All though they have taken no action to classify GHB as a drug, they repeatedly tell the media that GHB is an "illegal drug". While the FDA works behind the scenes to approve GHB as an "orphan" drug, they simultaneously vilify it in the media as having "no legitamite uses".Instead, the FDA "encouraged" individual states,(which are not governed by the Dietary Supplement Health & Education Act) to pass their own laws against this "new,dangerous,designer,date-rape drug."
>
> #7 And finally,
> as you read this, the small pharmaceutical company "Orphan Medical" (stock symbol orph), has just recieved final approval to market GHB, trade name "Xyrem",for the treatment of Narcolepsy.
> Thats right,
> This demonized "drug?" , is about to make its shareholders very rich. This is why GHB was banned from store shelves, where once one could purchase a lab-grade inexpensive healthy tonic.
>
> My reason for this post is simple. It sickens and saddens me to see how the gov't force feeds the media whatever it wishes, and instead of checking the actual facts, selling papers and increasing ratings are all that seem to matter. If the truth gets left out, so be it.
>
> Anthony
>
> ps: Most of this info came from reading "GHB-The Natural Mood Enhancer" by Dr.Ward Dean.
> Even if if you could care less about ghb, this book gives insight to what the FDA is really all about.
Posted by doug cater on October 13, 2000, at 19:53:51
In reply to Re: ghb and THE TRUTH, posted by Ant-Rock on October 13, 2000, at 18:42:11
So good to find another enlightened soul out there! I kinda wish I hadn't put my whole name in case the FDA is looking over our shoulders. Of course, it is still available, not as GHB, but the essential ingrediant gammabutyrolactone which converts into GHB in your body can be ordered on line. Does anyone one know about this? [email protected]
Posted by doug cater on October 14, 2000, at 7:39:06
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by MarkinBoston on October 13, 2000, at 12:17:06
d
Uh, Herr Boston, I appreciate your advice on the "methamphetamine" but, I'm afraid the accusation implied in your remark is, shall we say "off the Mark." Theres no methamphetamine in this mammal's membranes to motivate my mutterings.. O.K 1 20 mg adderall daily and a dollop of gamma come sunset but I only broached the meth issue because of something I had read on Dr. Bob's site about desoxyn being preferable to dex. I'm in Hawaii where I've found after about a year here that as a sovereign state, it does not recognize the DEA and doctors esentially greet you, PDR in hand like Santa Clauses ready to sit you in their lap and go over your Christmas wishlist. If I had stumbled into this pharmaceutical fantasyland a couple of years ago, by now you could have taken samples of my fat tissue, ground it up and sold 1/4 grams on Mainland to make a comfortable living. And during a period when the FDA relentless repressive zeal succeeded once again in extinquishing the light of gamma, I succumbed to the darkness of painkillers and benzos, so easily prescribed here even to a fumbling doctor-shy novice like me. But the light of connected intelligence made possible by the internet succeeded in perforating the darkness of totalitarian occupation, and I was able to unshackle myself from spirit smothering synthetics without withdrawals and once again roam the open seas of the collective unconscious.Such is the vividness of dreams one has after ingesting gamma. It is a natural catalyst that unlocks the floodgate to the subconscious from which so many of us spend our lives in exile, harnassed and in blinders, unable to see or feel the depths while we remain imprisoned in one diminsional selves.. For most net surfing passersby, this will spalshe into your mindeye only to glance off your attention span like water off a duck's back. But for those of you who glimpse a method in this message's madness....God or whatever you choose to call the spirit of Good Alas, most of this stream of consciousness will splash into the mind's eye if netsurfing passersby only to dribble off their attention has made the antidote available and
Uh, Herr Boston, I appreciate your advice on the "methamphetamine" but, I'm afraid the accusation implied in your remark is, shall we say "off the Mark." Theres no methamphetamine in this mammal's membranes to motivate my mutterings.. O.K 1 20 mg adderall daily and a dollop of gamma come sunset but I only broached the meth issue because of something I had read on Dr. Bob's site about desoxyn being preferable to dex. I'm in Hawaii where I've found after about a year here that as a sovereign state, it does not recognize the DEA and doctors esentially greet you, PDR in hand like Santa Clauses ready to sit you in their lap and go over your Christmas wishlist. If I had stumbled into this pharmaceutical fantasyland a couple of years ago, by now you could have taken samples of my fat tissue, ground it up and sold 1/4 grams on Mainland to make a comfortable living. And during a period when the FDA relentless repressive zeal succeeded once again in extinquishing the light of gamma, I succumbed to the darkness of painkillers and benzos, so easily prescribed here even to a fumbling doctor-shy novice like me. But the light of connected intelligence made possible by the internet succeeded in perforating the darkness of totalitarian occupation, and I was able to unshackle myself from spirit smothering synthetics without withdrawals and once again roam the open seas of the collective unconscious.Such is the vividness of dreams one has after ingesting gamma. It is a natural catalyst that unlocks the floodgate to the subconscious from which so many of us spend our lives in exile, harnassed and in blinders, unable to see or feel the depths while we remain imprisoned in one diminsional selves.. For most net surfing passersby, this will spalshe into your mindeye only to glance off your attention span like water off a duck's back. But for those of you who glimpse a method in this message's madness....God or whatever you choose to call the spirit of Good has made the antidote available and emminently affordable.
Posted by doug cater on October 14, 2000, at 8:25:23
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by doug cater on October 14, 2000, at 7:39:06
Shamefully, there was an error in pasting that last post. Oops.
Posted by shar on October 14, 2000, at 18:59:27
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by doug cater on October 14, 2000, at 8:25:23
Your writing is entrancing.
Shar
Posted by Buffet on October 17, 2000, at 17:03:37
In reply to ghb and it's many benefits, posted by doug cater on October 10, 2000, at 1:30:29
> I ahave found GHB or the essential ingrediant, gamma butyrolactone to a marveloous compound to use for relaxation, iinducing deep rest, detoxifying from other drugs without wothdrawals a and much more. Has anyone else been graced with access to theis non-toxic antidote?
I used Zoloft to come off of prozac, then GHB to come off of the Zoloft. Oh hell yes it does wonders for coming off of other drugs, but then you have a much harder addiction to deal with (IMHO). I posted my experience with the drug yesterday under GHB, a 1 year trial...
It is an antidepressant (big time), but in the same manner that cocaine is an antidepressant. In fact, biochemicaly speaking, it is very similar to cocaine but in reverse. Instead of causing a rush of dopamine, it blocks dopamine release. The dopamine builds up and when the drug is out of the system there is an excess in dopamine. With continued redosing, dopamine builds up eventually causing mania towards the end of the day.
Posted by Buffet on October 17, 2000, at 22:30:29
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by doug cater on October 13, 2000, at 9:29:32
> That is complete misinformation that GHB alone can result in overdose. There are no recorded instances. It only has overdosed people when mixed with alcohol or barbituates or other downers.
GHB alone can kill you indirectly. You pass out, you vomit, you inhale the vomit, you die.
You pass out, drive your car into a pole, and die.
I could go on and on. You need to take this into account. No, an overdose will not kill you. But the potential of death from indirect consequences might and do.
I almost died indirectly from GHB. If you can't admit this, you as a source for the 'non existant dangers of GHB' are incredible and should not be listened to. Take the middle ground at least bro...
Posted by doug cater on October 18, 2000, at 1:32:39
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by Buffet on October 17, 2000, at 22:30:29
Hmmm, all these disasterous things that can come from taking GHB...ut wait a minute, disasterous things can just come from, from the place that disasterous things come from, I guess. The most dangerous times, I suppose are when first experimenting to find the right amount, how it hit your own personal metabolism etc. Not the danger of overdose and as far as swallowing your own vomit, I really don't think it's at all like when on heroin or alcojhol and pills and respiration is already dangerously suppressed because you can stop breathing altogether on those things alone without choking on anything, it's just the breathing motor or whatever gets real weak whereas on GHB, if somerthing was choking you, I think the full normal force of struggle for breath would be aroused. Anyway, you have to find out how you react in a safe place, i.e. don't take it at a concert or even a bar and then be passing out and waking up in a hospital. The point is, everythings relative as far as dangers go and I suppose relative to doing no substance at all, therre are more x factors introduced into one's life when when does one, but relative to alcohol, heroin or pain pills, well lets just say it's an alternative that probably requires a more supportive environment, i.e. it's kind of like truth serum that let's your guard down and you can really have some amazing insights and conversations but it could leave you a good deal more vulnerable as opposed to those others which insulate and keep you r guard up. GHB is benign to the body and a positive, gentle, loving kind of energy and though it's really anti-anxiety, you can get paranoid on it but anger or violence I can't see how that could be possible. I suppose there are some people who can be that wayon anything, but they're probably the type that GHB would cause to just pass out and wouldn't like it at all. Anyway, the greatest danger is in being inroduced to it in an entirely inappropriate circumstance, and especially if you have to drive. As far as dependency, relative to the mythical "happy, joyyous and free" which reminds me sometimes of those pyramid sales things that are all over the internet where the new guy is the most important person in the room cuz the whole damn thiings momentum is geared towards some new guy signing up to buy into a program which he slowly comes to realize is able about teaching him how to to go out and talk other people into signing up just the way he just got talked into signing up. The point is that with the MLM, you think you're buying a series of instructions from which you will learn this money making skill but it turns out the skill is getting other oeople to think the same thing and buy it from you. The Emporer's New Career or something. And so it is with "happy ,joyous and free" where attainment of the promised wonders turns out to consist of getting to where you're the one promising the wonders and of course, relative to the bottomed out drunks out there on whose existence Alcoholics Anonymous' survival depends, a sober person with some time under their belts is going to always feel "there but for the grace of God go I" no matter how lacking there life may still be. It's all relative! But is what was wrong with your life
enough stemming from alcohol for you to spend the restof your life talking about it? Is that really happy joyous and free. When I was first introduced to GHB, I was certain that it was a gift from God to enable the human race to go through an evolution in consciousness, that otherwise, mired in alcoholism and centuries of agression and resentments, would be impossible. I thought it would make AA irrelevent as awareness of a new non-toxic , life enhancing relaxant spread, the hold that alcohol has on our society would be shaken loose. The dreams I was having were so vivid,c olorful, three diminsional with Acts I II and III like great theatre gave me a sense of tapping into exploration of the collective unconscious like a guy who all his life has just had a snorkle wuddenly getting scuba gear. Having lived my entire life in an age where the human race has been poised on the brink of extinction attempting to find a way to work things out, I thought "at last" God has delivered the "deus ex machina" a catalyst to deliver us from the "huis clos" rational, linear, scheming manipulations to an entirely new kind of sociability, not drunken but with actually increased tactile sensativity and hopefully, as the numbers of those accessing the vast, uncharted dream realm increased day by day, a new shared sense of the collective unconscious that would enter into the conscious world.
This was back in the early nineties, when it had made it's brief debut on the Health Food Store shelves. And the, of course, the FDA, in the name of "law and order" quickly succeeded in it's first crackdown on this agent of new consciousness and , far from just being briefly disgruntled over losing a curious new party drug, I was embittered and in despair, for it had been more than just a good time for me, it had granted me a visa to the undiscovered continent of dreams as well as an experience of potential sexuality that I, hampered by frustrating dysfunction, had never known. And then it was gone.
But I could not forget and one evening when I was writing an essay online for The Well in SF in '94, a talk request came before my astonished eyes, for I had no idea that someone could be "looking over my shoulder" as I was thus engaged. It turned out to be a backdoor whizkid who wasn't even a Well club member but who delighted in crashing the expensive ($2 an hr.!) rather exclusive Well which I had joined primarily because it had been suggested in response to one of my by then customary inquiries about GHB that my latter day Ponce de Leon quest might find clues to the Fountain's whereabouts online there.
The FDA purge had been successful in making their Reich "Judenrein" and I never went to clubs and thus never encountered the bootleg batches that kept popping up in the news, but through the connection I made that night with this cyber cat burgler, I was to be granted my dream visa for several months before reconfirming all of my premonitions. Were it not for GHB, I am one of the "unfortunates" who would turn to something else. I continue to be optimistic about it's potential as an alternative for a more mature and civilized human race, but it's not for everyone. Maybe I'm just living in a dreamworld. I sometimes feel, often feel like a "Stranger in a Strange Land" and the endless rancor makes me want to discoporate. Maybe using GHB is a form of discorporating. I hope it will continue to be available, cuz God knows, theres no rich drug maker to market it and theres no cartel to smuggle it so it stands a whole lot less chance than all the other drugs.
Posted by Buffet on October 18, 2000, at 15:29:07
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by doug cater on October 18, 2000, at 1:32:39
Hmm. Let me explain the process of vomit choking.
This is a fairly sick topic, reader beware...
I was new to GHB then and made my second small batch. I screw up the numbers and take a hit that was ten times larger than what I was shooting for...damn decimal points... I sit in a chair in my room and the last thing I remember is DAMN, the world is spinninggggggg........
I wake up on the floor covered in puke with a huge knot on my head and severe burning in my lungs, and having a difficult time breathing. I start coughing and it became clear that I inhaled vomit into my lungs. I cough out chunks of vomit from my lungs, not from my stomach, my lungs. Vomit is not good on the ol lungs and had I stayed passed out any longer I probably would have died from asphixiation (sp?).
I was lucky to have fallen out of the chair face first. Had I passed out face up in bed...I would have died. When you are on that much GHB, you don't have much voluntary muscle control.I guess my point is this - > Passing out on GHB can kill you. Usually, if you take a huge dose you will vomit/pass out or both, and when you loose muscle control to boot its not a good combo.
You can do the same thing with alcohol. However, its hard to pass out near as quick on alcohol than GHB. GHB seems to just shut off the brain like a switch at a certain dose level. That level is just a little higher than recreational doses.
Posted by stjames on October 18, 2000, at 15:47:02
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by Buffet on October 18, 2000, at 15:29:07
I start coughing and it became clear that I inhaled vomit into my lungs. I cough out chunks of vomit from my lungs, not from my stomach, my lungs. Vomit is not good on the ol lungs and had I stayed passed out any longer I probably would have died from asphixiation (sp?).
James here....
Yes you could of died from asphixiation or asperation pneumonia. With the first its a quick
death, the latter is a slow death. Glad you made it.james
Posted by doug cater on October 19, 2000, at 1:12:24
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by Buffet on October 18, 2000, at 15:29:07
Your attribute your chance salvation to having fallen out of the chair a certain and having chanced to have woken up in time. The poiunt is that people always wake up from GHB in time unless it is mixed with other drugs which do inddeed supress respiration. GHB baffles emergency rooms because people go from an unresponsive, low \respiration con-like state which they have heretofore only seen with narcotics or alcohol which has non os the revivifyiying aspect of GHB which spurs released damine to release after 4 hrs. and breathing is never suppressed by it alone in a way that is life threatening. Were you to swallow vomit, you would violently choke , summon sall othe life saving built in reflexes to expel the blockage and restore breathing. GHB does not lull breathin into a stupor which is unresponsiove to something that cuts it off, unlike pills, heroin, alcohol.
You just aren't recognizing how their is a natural , unprovoked spur to awakedness which follows the lull to unconsciousbness during the initial 4 hours. That is not to say that if someones's breathing is arrested, they will not spring to life with full alerted survival instincts.
Posted by ash on October 19, 2000, at 10:39:34
In reply to Re: ghb and THE TRUTH, posted by Ant-Rock on October 13, 2000, at 18:42:11
Anthony,
A minor correction. I just checked with Orphan Medical. Xyrem(GHB) has NOT yet been approved by the FDA. All Orphan Medical has done is submit an application to the FDA for approval, which contains the results of clininical trials. Actual approval is at least 6 months away, probably closer to a year.
Ash
> GHB Uncovered :
> Almost all of what Doug's post said is right on the money.
> #1 GHB is not toxic, and is safely converted to carbon dioxide & water.
>
> #2 GHB taken alone is extremely hard to overdose on. Having an LD (lethal human dose) of 300 grams!, while the usual dose taken is 1/2-3 grams. It also does not cause amnesia, unlike the drug Rophynal, which it has been mistakenly confused with by the media.
>
> GHB has been around for over 30 years in Europe, with no known abuse or overdose problems, in fact it is sold over the counter in many countries.
>
> #3 GHB has been used successfully to treat depression, in some cases even resistant-dep., by several doctors. With few exceptions, researchers have also found ghb to be extraordinarily safe and highly effective for treating insomnia, alleviating anxiety/depression, and enhancing cervical dilation during childbirth.
>
> #4 Before the current clampdown, pharmaceutical companies had filed 15 investigational new drug (IND) reports with the FDA. These reports typically show that the drug is safe for clinical trials in humans. Basically a green light for pharm co's to begin large-scale trials.
> At an average approval cost of 250-350 millon$ per drug,(remember there were 15 separate IND's for 15 separate drugs=indications or uses.) pharm-co's have collectively bet many millions on GHB's safety and efficacy.
>
> #5 Some of these uses were as follows...Improving sleep patterns for narcolepsy/ Reducing Schizophrenic symptoms/ Stimulating natural growth hormone release/ lowering cholesterol/ controlling tardive dyskinesia sympt/ relieving symptoms in Huntingtons/ improving memory problems/ etc.
>
> #6 Why GHB was banned...
> To make a long story short, the FDA has resorted to an unprecedented extralegal strategy to suppress GHB. All though they have taken no action to classify GHB as a drug, they repeatedly tell the media that GHB is an "illegal drug". While the FDA works behind the scenes to approve GHB as an "orphan" drug, they simultaneously vilify it in the media as having "no legitamite uses".Instead, the FDA "encouraged" individual states,(which are not governed by the Dietary Supplement Health & Education Act) to pass their own laws against this "new,dangerous,designer,date-rape drug."
>
> #7 And finally,
> as you read this, the small pharmaceutical company "Orphan Medical" (stock symbol orph), has just recieved final approval to market GHB, trade name "Xyrem",for the treatment of Narcolepsy.
> Thats right,
> This demonized "drug?" , is about to make its shareholders very rich. This is why GHB was banned from store shelves, where once one could purchase a lab-grade inexpensive healthy tonic.
>
> My reason for this post is simple. It sickens and saddens me to see how the gov't force feeds the media whatever it wishes, and instead of checking the actual facts, selling papers and increasing ratings are all that seem to matter. If the truth gets left out, so be it.
>
> Anthony
>
> ps: Most of this info came from reading "GHB-The Natural Mood Enhancer" by Dr.Ward Dean.
> Even if if you could care less about ghb, this book gives insight to what the FDA is really all about.
Posted by MarkinBoston on October 19, 2000, at 14:36:25
In reply to Re: ghb (Xyrem) is still not FDA approved » Ant-Rock, posted by ash on October 19, 2000, at 10:39:34
> Anthony,
>
> A minor correction. I just checked with Orphan Medical. Xyrem(GHB) has NOT yet been approved by the FDA. All Orphan Medical has done is submit an application to the FDA for approval, which contains the results of clininical trials. Actual approval is at least 6 months away, probably closer to a year.
>
> AshGood luck to them. I wouldn't buy the stock just yet. Even antidepressants is use for years around world with lots of positive results and studies are more and more delayed approval by the FDA wanting yet another controlled study. Add "abuse potential" and tail between the legs factor of approving what they adamently villianized, and you have a don't hold your breath scenerio. The FDA/DEA so doesn't want to embarass itself, that you see the current touchy medical marijuana quandry with states fighting the feds and trying to figure out a way to supply (mostly) cancer patients with the only drug that lets them keep food down so they don't whither away and die.
It doesn't matter how good GHB or anabolic steroids are when properly used. No fed wants to admit they were wrong and they just had these causes to get votes.
Posted by Buffet on October 19, 2000, at 17:34:05
In reply to Re: ghb and it's many benefits, posted by doug cater on October 19, 2000, at 1:12:24
> Your attribute your chance salvation to having fallen out of the chair a certain and having chanced to have woken up in time. The poiunt is that people always wake up from GHB in time unless it is mixed with other drugs which do inddeed supress respiration. GHB baffles emergency rooms because people go from an unresponsive, low \respiration con-like state which they have heretofore only seen with narcotics or alcohol which has non os the revivifyiying aspect of GHB which spurs released damine to release after 4 hrs. and breathing is never suppressed by it alone in a way that is life threatening. Were you to swallow vomit, you would violently choke , summon sall othe life saving built in reflexes to expel the blockage and restore breathing. GHB does not lull breathin into a stupor which is unresponsiove to something that cuts it off, unlike pills, heroin, alcohol.
> You just aren't recognizing how their is a natural , unprovoked spur to awakedness which follows the lull to unconsciousbness during the initial 4 hours. That is not to say that if someones's breathing is arrested, they will not spring to life with full alerted survival instincts.Actually I woke up quite some time after I threw up and inhaled. I woke up because the effects started to wear off, not out of the physical discomfort. Otherwise, under your argument, I should have arose immediately after inhaling acidic puke. Yes, people ALWAYS wake up after the effects start to fade, but have you ever experimented on someone passed out on GHB? I had a friend consume a little larger dose than he anticipated at work. I dragged him outside trying to arouse him, slapping his face (HARD), and no response. I was trying to save him from being fired-hence the beating : ). Someone heavily passed out on GHB will not wake up, even to extremely painful stimuli!-untill of course the effects wear off. Remember, I am talking in terms of fairly hefty doses.
Posted by Ant-Rock on October 19, 2000, at 18:06:40
In reply to Re: ghb (Xyrem) is still not FDA approved » Ant-Rock, posted by ash on October 19, 2000, at 10:39:34
> Anthony,
>
> A minor correction. I just checked with Orphan Medical. Xyrem(GHB) has NOT yet been approved by the FDA. All Orphan Medical has done is submit an application to the FDA for approval, which contains the results of clininical trials. Actual approval is at least 6 months away, probably closer to a year.
>
> Ash
Sorry Ash, I may have jumped the gun a little. Here's the latest:Xyrem(R)Sodium Oxybate) Oral Solution NDA Receives Priority Review from the FDA
MINNEAPOLIS, Oct. 17 /PRNewswire/ -- Orphan Medical, Inc. (Nasdaq: ORPH) announced today that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has granted the Company's Xyrem(R) (sodium oxybate) oral solution New Drug Application (NDA) priority review status. This status obligates FDA to a goal of acting on the NDA within six-months from the date of submission. The FDA grants priority review status for new drugs that represent a significant advancement over available therapies. The NDA for Xyrem was submitted on October 2, 2000, to the FDA, which has sixty days from the date of submission to accept or reject it for review.
Posted by doug cater on October 19, 2000, at 19:06:34
In reply to Re: ghb (Xyrem) is still not FDA approved » Ant-Rock, posted by ash on October 19, 2000, at 10:39:34
This state of affairs is a curious replay of what I went through with the FDA back in 1997. BioCraft Labs in NJ had been trying to get FDA approval for treatment of narcolepsy and in two years of reasearch, had gone from the requisite white rat testing stage to extensive trials with live narcoptics. But they were getting the cold shoulder from the FDA. Maurice Bordoni, the Head of Reasearch had explained to me that he was well aware of the many benefits of GHB for all sorts of ailments, but that getting approval as an"orphan drug" for a rare ailment was the best hope for getting a foot in the door, because the cost of passing FDA requirements for all the other uses was insurmountable. Phil Lee, an old family friend was the Undersecretary of Health (1997) and when I gave him a report on GHB, he was very interested. Three times he set up conference calls between Biocrat, himself and the FDA and three times the FDA mysteriously cancelled at the last moment. Then the word came down that the FDA, wiothout even looking at Biocrafts research, was demanding that they return to white rat testing.
Such is the level of resistence that the FDA has had against GHB, ranging from their "demonization" campaign to thwarting even the most benign application for those who suffer from narcolepsy. I have read testimonies from narcoleptics who swear by it and despair of it being made impossible to get now that it has been banned in America. So the FDA has loosened up a little, undoubtedly because these people with a genuine medical need hold a little political sway,
and it looks like theres a light at the end of the tunnel for them, maybe. The point is that the FDA will do any thing to prevent a natural, non-patented compound from coming into common use when their whole grip on this nation is based on the funding they get from the billion dollar Pharmaceutical Lobby. Why, does mention of the blatant FDA inconsistency in even considering what they have just succeeded in convincing everyone is a deadly poison might have medical uses bring forth the myopic response that "well, it's only tentative approval..." Can't you see the forest for the trees? Is it a deadly drug or a benign catalyst for deep natural rest and healing? Why the uproar over nitpicking detail?
Posted by doug cater on October 19, 2000, at 19:11:26
In reply to Re: ghb (Xyrem) is still not FDA approved » ash, posted by Ant-Rock on October 19, 2000, at 18:06:40
"Priority Review!!!" Now that is some good news!
Posted by MarkinBoston on October 23, 2000, at 17:37:00
In reply to Re: ghb (Xyrem) is still not FDA approved » ash, posted by Ant-Rock on October 19, 2000, at 18:06:40
Slick move. Too much negativity associated with the name GHB, so call it sodium oxybate instead and avoid all the red flags and stigma!
Same thing happens over and over. MRI scans used to be called NMR (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance) scans. No radioactivity was involved, but the name brought up images of the bomb and 3-Mile Island resulting in patient concern.
Now I give XYREM half a chance of Schedule II status approval unless some loser in the media wants to try and enhance their career at the expense of the suffering of many thousands of people by 'exposing' the rouse. It may not be GHB, though what little they say about it helping narcoleptics and improving sleep architecture is also true of GHB. I think Schedule II or III is appropriate considering interaction potential and need for careful use.
The company also has an injectable to treat anti-freeze poisoning, which is interesting. The traditional treatment has been ethanol.
> Xyrem(R)Sodium Oxybate) Oral Solution NDA Receives Priority Review from the FDA
>
>
> MINNEAPOLIS, Oct. 17 /PRNewswire/ -- Orphan Medical, Inc. (Nasdaq: ORPH) announced today that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has granted the Company's Xyrem(R) (sodium oxybate) oral solution New Drug Application (NDA) priority review status. This status obligates FDA to a goal of acting on the NDA within six-months from the date of submission. The FDA grants priority review status for new drugs that represent a significant advancement over available therapies. The NDA for Xyrem was submitted on October 2, 2000, to the FDA, which has sixty days from the date of submission to accept or reject it for review.
Posted by Mary Fischer on June 29, 2001, at 18:44:47
In reply to Re: ghb (Xyrem) is still not FDA approved » ash, posted by Ant-Rock on October 19, 2000, at 18:06:40
I would hope that Xyrem 's benefits with Alzheimers' would be considered. My friend that has Alzheimers' has many of the symptoms of Narcolepsy to a lesser degree. Irradict sleep patterns. Periods of disorientation and falling off to sleep in the middle of things. He even fell asleep at the wheel of a car once and ran into someones car. It would also get more pressure to get XYREM FDA approved . There are many more people with Alzheimer's than Narcolepsy and a lot more anticipated in the future.
This is the end of the thread.
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