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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Buffet on October 17, 2000, at 2:18:44
I was rather concerned about some of the above postings regarding GHB and feel to tell you little about this DRUG.
I used it for exactly one year. I used it every day. I used it all day long, repeated dosing of 7-8 times.
Yes it is fairly nontoxic. You will not die from an overdose, blah blah blah.....I used to say the same things to people in its defense.
Here's the truth. I almost died from an overdose by choking on my own vomit alone in my room. I laughed it off and was just more careful from then on. I became addicted, physically and mentally, lost 2 jobs within 2 months, wrecked my car, failed in college the second semester in a row (by falling asleep in the middle of tests...), made an ass of myself several times due to becoming manic after long binges, the list does go on. I cannot remember much of that year (last year).
GHB has potential to screw up your life. It might have potential as a pharmaceutical. Overall, it MUST be treated with extreme respect. GHB and the preconverted lactone are nontoxic, but the effects from the intoxication can result in death or injury indirectly, mostly from passing out.
It is not a 'date rape drug' or any of the other BS you hear in the news, but its not a miracle cure all either. It is just another abusable recreational drug that might hold some value if further studied as a medication.
I have been clean for 6 months, but have noticed some disturbing constant side effects. I am not sure they are GHB related. They are stuttering (i never used to stutter), anxiety, inability to concentrate, slowed reactions and scrambled thought, lower sex drive, etc. I would be interested to hear from any long time GHB abuser, occasional recreational user, etc about their reactions both good and bad to this drug. I am not a DARE spokesman and I don't agree with it being illegal. I do however disagree with it being touted as harmless, as I know its dangers from first hand experience.
Posted by AndrewB on October 17, 2000, at 13:00:12
In reply to GHB, a 1 year trial..., posted by Buffet on October 17, 2000, at 2:18:44
I already posted above that I used GHB throughout the day for depression and lack of energy. At first it was wonderful. Then the vomiting, falling asleep at the wheel, mania and an awful psychotic episode. Again I say, never use GHB throughout the day for depression. How many of these stories do you have to hear. I have read of plenty of others who have fallen into same terrible trap.
OK, it can be used at once a night for sleep. But if it is arousing instead of sleep inducing, there is a powerful temptation to use it more and more-- because it can make you feel soooooo good.
Buffet, your dopaminergic system may have been altered by the GHB. Hopefully it will slowly recover.
AndrewB
Posted by doug cater on October 17, 2000, at 18:25:02
In reply to Re: GHB, a 1 year trial..., posted by AndrewB on October 17, 2000, at 13:00:12
Look into liquid deprenyl,aka deprenyl citrate, available over the internet insofar as any potential harm done the the dopaminergenic system. It is said that if GHB is rousing and anti-depressant in it's effect on you rather than automatically sleep inducing, then you fall into the category of already being clinically depressed. That is to say, things were not so good to begin with, probably particularly in the realm of dopamine receptors and such, so complaints about low sex drive etc. after stopping continual GHB use may well just be returning to former state. Deprenyl is excellent for this as it has been found not only to awaken, stimulate dopamine synapses but, unlike say, amphetamines, actually repair and prolong their life. Deprenyl and also bromocriptine work to keep healthy levels of dopamine past the point in life when they inevitably begin to wane and are best known for treating Parkinson's and Alzheimers but also could be vital to people who are experiencing signs of flagging dopamine levels, lack of motivation, sex drive, zest long before those actual terminal diseases set in.
Posted by Buffet on October 17, 2000, at 18:27:03
In reply to Re: GHB, a 1 year trial..., posted by AndrewB on October 17, 2000, at 13:00:12
> I already posted above that I used GHB throughout the day for depression and lack of energy. At first it was wonderful. Then the vomiting, falling asleep at the wheel, mania and an awful psychotic episode. Again I say, never use GHB throughout the day for depression. How many of these stories do you have to hear. I have read of plenty of others who have fallen into same terrible trap.
>
> OK, it can be used at once a night for sleep. But if it is arousing instead of sleep inducing, there is a powerful temptation to use it more and more-- because it can make you feel soooooo good.
>
> Buffet, your dopaminergic system may have been altered by the GHB. Hopefully it will slowly recover.
>
> AndrewBAfter a long all day binge, did you have the same side effects that I had - > elevated heart rate, extreme anxiety/paranoia/mania, aggression, extreme irritability, and phychosis? While intoxicated, did you ever have problems learning, converting things to memory, and concentrating? I'm interested to know if these are common side effects as I am still interested in how this chemical works on the brain and the dopamine system.
Posted by stjames on October 17, 2000, at 19:06:24
In reply to Re: GHB, a 1 year trial..., posted by Buffet on October 17, 2000, at 18:27:03
> After a long all day binge, did you have the same side effects that I had - > elevated heart rate, extreme anxiety/paranoia/mania, aggression, extreme irritability, and phychosis? While intoxicated, did you ever have problems learning, converting things to memory, and concentrating?
James here....
This is textbook discription of barbitute abuse and/or addiction. Messy.
james
Posted by Buffet on October 17, 2000, at 22:17:42
In reply to Re: GHB, a 1 year trial..., posted by stjames on October 17, 2000, at 19:06:24
> > After a long all day binge, did you have the same side effects that I had - > elevated heart rate, extreme anxiety/paranoia/mania, aggression, extreme irritability, and phychosis? While intoxicated, did you ever have problems learning, converting things to memory, and concentrating?
>
> James here....
>
> This is textbook discription of barbitute abuse and/or addiction. Messy.
>
> jamesGHB and barbs are quite different in how they react in the brain. I have been on fioricet for about six months before the GHB experience (used for migraines) , and yes I must admit to experimentation with high levels of fioricet. It contains butalbital (sp?), one of the weaker barbs. I never had the same reactions from the barbs, but then again they were high doses of a weak barb so who knows. Are you saying that GHB and the barbituates are in the same class, or work in the same manner? If so, I would have to dissagree. There side effects from abuse may be similar, but the two drugs are apples and oranges.
Also, GHB detox is very uncomfortable physically, but relatively harmless when compared to going cold turkey on barbs, which has the potential to put you into seizures and death.
One more thing, the effects I had seem to be related to excess dopamine. Then again this is speculation.
Posted by stjames on October 17, 2000, at 23:00:45
In reply to Re: GHB, a 1 year trial..., posted by Buffet on October 17, 2000, at 22:17:42
Are you saying that GHB and the barbituates are in the same class, or work in the same manner? If so, I would have to dissagree. There side effects from abuse may be similar, but the two drugs are apples and oranges.
>
No they are, of course, not the same class. I can see how you might
have gotten that impression. The abuse and addiction looks a lot like
barbs. The same kind of behavior happens with a powerful benzo like
Rohipinal or Mandrex, Quaalude, ect.GHB seems ez at first but I have seen the middle and end in a friend.
All the charming things, like the odd fire (dropped cigaretttes), nodding
out, driving the car while blacked out, slurred speech, ect. In a word, messy.james
Posted by Ant-Rock on October 18, 2000, at 11:34:01
In reply to GHB, a 1 year trial..., posted by Buffet on October 17, 2000, at 2:18:44
> I was rather concerned about some of the above postings regarding GHB and feel to tell you little about this DRUG.
>
> I used it for exactly one year. I used it every day. I used it all day long, repeated dosing of 7-8 times.
>
> Yes it is fairly nontoxic. You will not die from an overdose, blah blah blah.....I used to say the same things to people in its defense.
>
> Here's the truth. I almost died from an overdose by choking on my own vomit alone in my room. I laughed it off and was just more careful from then on. I became addicted, physically and mentally, lost 2 jobs within 2 months, wrecked my car, failed in college the second semester in a row (by falling asleep in the middle of tests...), made an ass of myself several times due to becoming manic after long binges, the list does go on. I cannot remember much of that year (last year).
>
> GHB has potential to screw up your life. It might have potential as a pharmaceutical. Overall, it MUST be treated with extreme respect. GHB and the preconverted lactone are nontoxic, but the effects from the intoxication can result in death or injury indirectly, mostly from passing out.
>
> It is not a 'date rape drug' or any of the other BS you hear in the news, but its not a miracle cure all either. It is just another abusable recreational drug that might hold some value if further studied as a medication.
>
> I have been clean for 6 months, but have noticed some disturbing constant side effects. I am not sure they are GHB related. They are stuttering (i never used to stutter), anxiety, inability to concentrate, slowed reactions and scrambled thought, lower sex drive, etc. I would be interested to hear from any long time GHB abuser, occasional recreational user, etc about their reactions both good and bad to this drug. I am not a DARE spokesman and I don't agree with it being illegal. I do however disagree with it being touted as harmless, as I know its dangers from first hand experience."GHB has the potential to screw up one's life".
So does table wine, and I am living proof that antidepressants can also destroy a persons life.
Does this mean ad's ruin everyone who uses them, of course not. Any psychoactive substance can be abused or cause an adverse reaction. If one is prone to abusing substances, than using GHB without a doctors guidance would be a mistake.In all the info I have read regarding GHB, every single doctor who advocates its use, also warns not to use it continually throughout the day, or even once a day in large-enough amounts can cause problems. Also, they make it clear to never drive when using GHB, as it effects ones motor skills.
I realize these warnings are not labeled on street ghb, and I think the lack of information on this substance is the reason many have ended up worse off for exprimenting with it.
I truly feel sorry for the people who have written about their problems stemming from ghb addiction. I've been through a hellish experience myself due to an adverse AD reaction, and to have ones life damaged for any reason, is truly sad. Hopefully these exchanges will help inform others not to blindly take any psychoactive substance without knowing as much as one possibly can about it, and even then, things can go wrong.
Sicerely,
Anthony
Posted by Buffet on October 18, 2000, at 14:17:46
In reply to Re: GHB, a 1 year trial..., posted by Ant-Rock on October 18, 2000, at 11:34:01
Buffet said- >
> "GHB has the potential to screw up one's life".
Ant-Rock said- >
> So does table wine, and I am living proof that antidepressants can also destroy a persons life.
> Does this mean ad's ruin everyone who uses them, of course not. Any psychoactive substance can be abused or cause an adverse reaction. If one is prone to abusing substances, than using GHB without a doctors guidance would be a mistake.In all the info I have read regarding GHB, every single doctor who advocates its use, also warns not to use it continually throughout the day, or even once a day in large-enough amounts can cause problems. Also, they make it clear to never drive when using GHB, as it effects ones motor skills.
Buffet says- >Here's the problem I see with GHB. You feel down and pop a few prozac and guess what, nothing happens. You feel down and take a couple capfulls of your new homeade batch of GHB and wham, instant gratification. All the sudden you feel 'euphoria', something that you never feel on a day to day basis (unless on another street drug). Then, if you are like me, turn around and look at the 2 1gallon bottles of butyrolactone you bought off the internet and say to yourself - HELL, I've got about a 5 year supply!
I had so much that I could have stayed high every day all day long for 2-3 years! I couldn't believe what I had found for $140. Anyway, my point is this - if it can somehow be controlled under the guidance of a doctor within reasonable limits then great. I don't like the demonization of it, or any other chemical that has potential. If someone were to try it for depression or sleep problems, they need to get advice from someone very familiar with the drug. I really don't know where to put GHB - scheduled, unscheduled..maybe something like 'medical marijuana' in California, I just don't know. It's a tough call.
Ant-Rock said- >
> I realize these warnings are not labeled on street ghb, and I think the lack of information on this substance is the reason many have ended up worse off for exprimenting with it.
> I truly feel sorry for the people who have written about their problems stemming from ghb addiction. I've been through a hellish experience myself due to an adverse AD reaction, and to have ones life damaged for any reason, is truly sad. Hopefully these exchanges will help inform others not to blindly take any psychoactive substance without knowing as much as one possibly can about it, and even then, things can go wrong.
> Sicerely,
> Anthony
This is the end of the thread.
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