![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by mIstERb on August 13, 2000, at 23:03:10
In reply to Re: Medical Deities by Proxy on the internet? » Oddzilla, posted by Snowie on August 13, 2000, at 22:14:36
snow, I got the same vibe from Odd's post but I am kindof an Odd fan so I let it go. Something about the posting of the study here in the first place was suspect to me, too, like what was the hidden indictment there, but it is clearly relevant to the board, so who am I to whine?
I kind of agree with Odd. It is easy to represent oneself as an authority in the on-line community and she correctly identified some of the ways people do this. I try to take information for what it is, regardless the source.
These quasi-authoritative roles are rather typical of the self-help community in general, though. Treatement centers are thouroughly staffed with recevering whatevers, and the boilerplate philosophy is that one remains "An Alchoholic" for life, regardless whatever else they become.
As the frequent whipping-boy of choice here, I wondered whether there was in implication that I am faking something...very narcisitic of me, I know...I'm so vain I prob'ly think this is about me...
But at various times I am represented by others here as either not experiencing the same depth of symptomology as they, or so seriously in need of help that whatever I contribute is meaningless except as a symptom of my pathology. I just find this interesting.
So i will add to this thread that in some cases, the internet might allow us to connect with people who are like us in many ways, but who manage their similar situations very differently. Often, rather than attempting to understand a different perspective, we might attempt to discredit that perspecitve. Sometimes we are afraid of things we don't understand and express our fear as anger.
I mean, how could I not be seriously depressed...I had to break it off with Monica, I was humiliated in front of the whole nation with that impeachment thing and now Al is distancing himself from me. I don't know what's up with the wife and her New York house...I know she won't let me campaign for her. And I might loose my law license....at least I can still teach....
Posted by shar on August 13, 2000, at 23:39:19
In reply to Medical Deities by Proxy on the internet? » Cam W., posted by Oddzilla on August 13, 2000, at 20:29:02
Hmmmm, I always think that boards with a fairly consistent group of posters sort of self-regulate. That is, if someone posted something out in left field here, I would expect others would say something. I don't feel it's important to have someone's vita before I read what they have to say, and evaluate its veracity.
On the other hand, I believe the "grain of salt" caveat, and I still do research on my own. Many posters here seem to have better information than my pdoc--info I've independently confirmed via research after seeing it here.
Shar
>
> I think another problem on support groups is the ability of any individual to assume the stance of an authority with or without identifying himself as such.
>
> One way is the recovered sufferer as expert. Of course there is no way to verify she ever even had the condition or ever recovered. This person discounts everybody else's experience in comparison to hers. One of her techniques is to use the authoritative we in all references to symptoms, etc. There is reference to common knowledge,authorities say, tests have shown,etc.,but few actual sources given Another technique is to present oneself as the ultimate sufferer before in order to give more weight to the present "recovery". The MD by proxy often is very outgoing and very voluminous poster. In order to be one of the "in crowd" and recieve attention and support it is tempting and comforting to listen to her and agree with her.
>
> Second is the guy with the big vocabulary and a little bit of knowledge (which as we know is a dangerous thing).
>
> Third is the guy with a lot of knowledge (apparently) but not willing to disclose where he got it. If someone gives information in a professional manner for a while, people who are looking for information and support and are unable to conduct research themselves because of their conditions may come to rely on him. And that could be disastrous. (Like Sunnely?)
>
> Fourth is the person who announces he is a professional but refuses to give credentials. This person (such as Toby?)could be a shy psychiatrist or he could be an inmate at a hospital for the criminally insane with a computer in the hospital library. Who knows?
>
> In a review of an online discussion group for repetitive strain injury quoted in the article a third of the advice given was unconventional,unconfirmed or inappropriate. That might cause a little discomfort but bad advice in a mental health group could cause disaster.
>
> I consider you an authentic Pharmaceutical Deity.
>
> I am an expert on nothing but these are my observations and opinions.
>
>
> Oddzilla
>
> PS I know DR Bob has a little disclaimer up at the top of the page!
>
>
>
> > I was surfing and found an article on the risks and problems that can occur on internet medical bulletin boards:
> >
> > Feldman,MD. Munchausen by Internet: Detecting Factitious Illness and Crisis on the Internet, Southern Medical Journal, July,2000; 93(7).
> >
> > download pdf file directly at:
> >
> > http://www.sma.org/smj2000/julysmj00/feldman.pdf
> >
> > or go to the journal first and then download article:
> >
> > http://www.sma.org/smj2000/julysmj00
> >
> > - Cam
>
>
>
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> If you're satisfied with it (and your registration information is below), then go ahead and post it.
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> If you haven't registered yet, please do so now. No money or waiting is required. Afterwards, come "back" here and re-enter your name and password if necessary to proceed with posting.
>
>
>
>
>
> I was surfing and found an article on the risks and problems that can occur on internet medical bulletin boards:
> >
> > Feldman,MD. Munchausen by Internet: Detecting Factitious Illness and Crisis on the Internet, Southern Medical Journal, July,2000; 93(7).
> >
> > download pdf file directly at:
> >
> > http://www.sma.org/smj2000/julysmj00/feldman.pdf
> >
> > or go to the journal first and then download article:
> >
> > http://www.sma.org/smj2000/julysmj00
> >
> > - Cam
Posted by shar on August 13, 2000, at 23:44:24
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards, posted by Greg on August 13, 2000, at 18:11:09
Ok, since we're coming clean here, I'm a 14 year-old boy. Happy, too. With rich parents who love me. And a wonderful future.
Shar
Posted by shar on August 13, 2000, at 23:46:56
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards, posted by Greg on August 13, 2000, at 18:11:09
> Sandi,
>
> Thank God I found you, I thought I was the only one pretending to be sick! Rather than being a mid-fourties, badly graying male with a ever-widening variety of depressive ailments and 30 lbs overweight, I am a 25 year old completely healthy male, never been sick a day in my life, 270lbs with body fat of 4%, 28 inch biceps and a face that belongs on the cover of GQ magazine. And my take-home is $750,000 a year. Where have you been all my life?
>
> Hugs,
> Greg ;^)
>
> > I confess, I have Munchhausen by Internet. I've never actually been depressed, OD'd on sleeping pills, or suffered a panic attack. In reality I am a deliriously happy, completely stable, healthy woman. Hell, I'm not even fat. My life is so perfect that I have to come to this board (and many others) and pretend to have problems. Does anyone know of a good Munchhausen by Internet board I could post on?
> >
> > Sandi
Posted by Oddzilla on August 14, 2000, at 8:12:43
In reply to Re: Medical Deities by Proxy on the internet? » Oddzilla, posted by Cam W. on August 13, 2000, at 22:47:28
How do I know your a pharmacist? Well, In an old post you listed an article you and published online in a pharmacy journal and I looked it up. It mentioned where you work. Also you answer questions about your job and training if people ask. Of course no one can be totally sure.
> Odd - Very good observations, except for the deity thing. Give me another 10 years, then maybe.... =^]
>
> I still feel that my knowledge base is so woefully inadequate, still. So many of the neat little tricks that I forget. New drugs are released in Europe that I know absolutely nothing about. I also lack in the ability to diagnose, which would help in drug selection. I still cannot visualize the circuitry of the different neurotransmitter systems and how they interconnect. My knowledge of brain anatomy, while getting clearer, is still frighteningly inadequate. The list could go on forever and it seems the hurrier I try to learn this stuff, the behinder I get.
>
> But, getting back to the possiblity of fraud, I am too trusting. But, before I use any information I receive on the internet, not from known peer reviewed sources, I always check the accuracy of information through Google and Medline searches and also bounce it off of some of the psychiatrists that I work with. I believe one should be very skeptical of advice they get from the internet (or from any other source for that matter).
>
> BTW - How do you really know that I am a pharmacist? Maybe I just read a lot. But then again, what is knowledge but paying attention to and understanding the current, ever changing scientific norm. Sure there are problems with the scientific method, but it's the best approximation we can use to understand the world.
>
> Anyway, I babbling, so it must be bedtime. Thanks for the interesting post. - Cam
Posted by Cam W. on August 14, 2000, at 20:05:26
In reply to Re: Medical Deities by Proxy on the internet? » Cam W., posted by Oddzilla on August 14, 2000, at 8:12:43
> How do I know your a pharmacist? Well, In an old post you listed an article you and published online in a pharmacy journal and I looked it up. It mentioned where you work. Also you answer questions about your job and training if people ask. Of course no one can be totally sure.
Odd - Okay, I'm busted. Nice dectective work.
BTW - I hope you don't mind me calling you Odd =^P
- Cam
Posted by Billb on August 18, 2000, at 21:01:23
In reply to Re: Medical Deities by Proxy on the internet? » Cam W., posted by Oddzilla on August 14, 2000, at 8:12:43
How did you formulate your name. It is very interesting. Do you know MisterB?
Posted by Adam on August 21, 2000, at 23:36:07
In reply to Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards, posted by Cam W. on August 12, 2000, at 16:59:48
Hmm.
Well, coming out of lurkerdom for a second, I've actually found that, as time went on and my research into psych-related stuff became more extensive, the more I knew, the less I wanted to tell people about it. I keep getting this worry that playing p-doc or drug expert or anything else is a distinctly bad idea, and maybe I should just stop it for good. I don't know. I'm happy to tell people what I (at least think I) know or have learned if they are my friends, and some have even said (my girlfriend especially) "God, you know, my doctor doesn't tell me any of this crap. I have no clue what these drugs do." I go home all happy feeling like I helped out and looked like a smartypants, etc. And then I get the nagging question in my head...did I get all that right? Does it matter? Should I leave all such talk to the experts?
Then I also wonder: Why DON'T the experts just talk about this more? Or if they do, why are they usually making you and I pay for it?
The net has loads of good stuff and even bigger loads of B.S. Of all the sites I have seen, this one is head-and-shoulder's above the rest. And yet it could also be among the most dangerous in some respects, party because it can be so compelling. One thing I really like parousing from time to time are the 'Tips, but I notice the additions ended a long time ago. Why aren't more P-Docs sharing their knowledge with us? Why, if people like the author are so worried about frauds of one form or another spreading lies and damn lies, aren't they, rather than taking potshots at internet pseudopsych, doing something about it in the way of contribution?
Here's a crazy idea: Five or ten psychiatrists pop in from time to time and aswer a few nuts and bolts questions about a drug. Maybe this is unethical behavior, I'm not sure. It just seems that while health-care professionals are spending a fair amount of time publishing in one form or another in a way that can be read surfing the net, they aren't interacting all that much. At least, I'm not seeing it. There are sites like quackwatch, which is very good for spotting the quacks, but they are few and far between, and, of course, the quackwatchers aren't aswering your questions. I would love, love, love to pick a good p-docs brain. I have heaps of questions I'd like to ask. I would love to have my mistakes corrected (reasonably gently, of course) when I make them.
So, you know, why not? It's anonymous. One couldn't do more harm than an erroneous poster or a chronic liar, could they?
I read articles like this and I think: Absolutely this is true, and it is right to provide such cautions, so long as one does not overgenralize, or resort to sneering elitism and derision. But I also think: Is the meter always running? Is the potential of the internet not worth as much of your time as its pitfalls? Do you ever want to experience a form of electronic discourse outside of the circle of your profession that is about your profession?
For the vast majority, it would seem the answer is no. So then, how do we offset these negative elements without ignoring it all?
Posted by Cam W. on August 22, 2000, at 0:23:51
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards, posted by Adam on August 21, 2000, at 23:36:07
Adam - The probable reason that pdocs do not post is that it is a cardinal sin to step on the toes of a colleague in front of the world. I am a pharmacist and, if you notice, I never recommend a treatment. I give advice on the meds, but still try to persuade the person to consult with their doctor about any changes in therapy. It is only proper, as none of us really know the other's history or if we are getting a full story. We hear one side here. It would be unethical to try to treat someone without a complete history.
My 2¢ - Cam
Posted by Adam on August 22, 2000, at 18:39:52
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards » Adam, posted by Cam W. on August 22, 2000, at 0:23:51
I agree completely with your statement. I was thinking more along the lines, though, of answering questions providing factual information that perhaps only a specialist in the field would have a firm or ready knowledge of. There are, here and there, such places on the internet ("Ask Dr. So-and-So", where one email in 1000 gets answered, it would seem). It might also be possible to express oppinions or certain points of view without being unethical or carelessly gainsaying the advice of another specialist. Perhaps the great dearth of specialist participants in the public discourse represents, as you say, professional decorum. Maybe it just represents fatigue. I think their presence would be much appreciated and valuable, and I'm sure there must be some way to satisfy some amount of people's curiosity without overstepping ethical boundaries. For me it would be a dream come true to have a few technical questions aswered without having to do so much searching. When, on the rare occasions I do see a doctor now, the meetings are so short, and the atomosphere so uncondusive, I just never get the chance or feel confortable to discuss ideas or theories or mechanisms of action or anything. Dr. Bob's disclaimer used to say "get your information the old fashioned way." Well, for me, unless I was in a research study, the old fashioned way meant no information of this sort. The pros have such a wealth of knowledge they could share. Some of us are really hungry just for a portion of it.
> Adam - The probable reason that pdocs do not post is that it is a cardinal sin to step on the toes of a colleague in front of the world. I am a pharmacist and, if you notice, I never recommend a treatment. I give advice on the meds, but still try to persuade the person to consult with their doctor about any changes in therapy. It is only proper, as none of us really know the other's history or if we are getting a full story. We hear one side here. It would be unethical to try to treat someone without a complete history.
>
> My 2¢ - Cam
Posted by Chris A. on August 22, 2000, at 21:22:08
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards, posted by Adam on August 22, 2000, at 18:39:52
Adam,
Write your questions out for your pDoc and hand it to him or her. Make a copy for yourself and go through them together. Say things like "I respect your honest professional input...".
Physicians are reticent to participate online: 1) time pressure, fatigue, juggling practice management, continuing ed, hospital duties, call and family, etc. can be a daunting task. They are human and also need a life. 2) Ethically, licensing and insurance wise (at least in the US), you don't give out anything that can be construed as medical advice to anyone that you haven't personally seen face-to-face, taken a history on and have a chart for in your office or at your place of work. The same holds for writing prescriptions. Some would probably be happy to share if they could be of help, but hold back because we live in the most litigous society in history. That is very unfortunate.
I wish you Godspeed in your quest for info. I'm looking for it too, hence I check in here when I get a chance or feel up to it.
Chris A.
Posted by Snowie on August 24, 2000, at 18:58:19
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards, posted by Chris A. on August 22, 2000, at 21:22:08
I think some pdocs are willing to post on BBSs such as this one as long as they are allowed a certain amount of anonymity. We had a practicing pdoc posting here at one time, but I haven't seen her in a while. I think perhaps she was too smart (is there such a thing?), and her knowledge of meds made some people uncomfortable. It's sad since she had so much to offer. I hope that she eventually returns.
Snowie
> Adam,
>
> Write your questions out for your pDoc and hand it to him or her. Make a copy for yourself and go through them together. Say things like "I respect your honest professional input...".
>
> Physicians are reticent to participate online: 1) time pressure, fatigue, juggling practice management, continuing ed, hospital duties, call and family, etc. can be a daunting task. They are human and also need a life. 2) Ethically, licensing and insurance wise (at least in the US), you don't give out anything that can be construed as medical advice to anyone that you haven't personally seen face-to-face, taken a history on and have a chart for in your office or at your place of work. The same holds for writing prescriptions. Some would probably be happy to share if they could be of help, but hold back because we live in the most litigous society in history. That is very unfortunate.
>
> I wish you Godspeed in your quest for info. I'm looking for it too, hence I check in here when I get a chance or feel up to it.
>
> Chris A.
Posted by Oddzilla on August 24, 2000, at 19:38:11
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards, posted by Snowie on August 24, 2000, at 18:58:19
> I think some pdocs are willing to post on BBSs such as this one as long as they are allowed a certain amount of anonymity. We had a practicing pdoc posting here at one time, but I haven't seen her in a while. I think perhaps she was too smart (is there such a thing?), and her knowledge of meds made some people uncomfortable. It's sad since she had so much to offer. I hope that she eventually returns.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There's a difference between being a practicing psychiatrist and saying you're a practicing psychiatrist. But I think perhaps she was so despondent over having her credentials questioned that she committed suicide. I hope everyone is really sorry now. They were just jealous because she was smarter than them. (Well,hey, my speculation is a good as anyone else's.) Maybe we should all just stick to the facts??????
>
>
Posted by Snowie on August 24, 2000, at 20:48:22
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards » Snowie, posted by Oddzilla on August 24, 2000, at 19:38:11
Odd,
Do I detect hostility coming from you? If so, please do me a favor and take it somewhere else. Thank you.
I knew she was a pdoc from another site I visit. She wanted to maintain her anomymity there as well, and the host of that BBS (a pdoc himself) respected her wishes. Here was his comment: "___ is a psychiatrist. He wishes to remain totally anon. His writing speaks to his/her qualifications. We are all grateful for his/her participation on this website."
Snowie
> > I think some pdocs are willing to post on BBSs such as this one as long as they are allowed a certain amount of anonymity. We had a practicing pdoc posting here at one time, but I haven't seen her in a while. I think perhaps she was too smart (is there such a thing?), and her knowledge of meds made some people uncomfortable. It's sad since she had so much to offer. I hope that she eventually returns.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There's a difference between being a practicing psychiatrist and saying you're a practicing psychiatrist. But I think perhaps she was so despondent over having her credentials questioned that she committed suicide. I hope everyone is really sorry now. They were just jealous because she was smarter than them. (Well,hey, my speculation is a good as anyone else's.) Maybe we should all just stick to the facts??????
Posted by Oddzilla on August 24, 2000, at 21:01:00
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards » Oddzilla, posted by Snowie on August 24, 2000, at 20:48:22
No hostility here!!!! Do I detect accusations of hostility coming from you ? I feel slandered and hurt. Please take it somewhere else quickly.
Thank you
Oddzilla (in tears)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```````````````````````````
>
> Do I detect hostility coming from you? If so, please do me a favor and take it somewhere else. Thank you.
>
> I knew she was a pdoc from another site I visit. She wanted to maintain her anomymity there as well, and the host of that BBS (a pdoc himself) respected her wishes. Here was his comment: "___ is a psychiatrist. He wishes to remain totally anon. His writing speaks to his/her qualifications. We are all grateful for his/her participation on this website."
>
> Snowie
>
>
> > > I think some pdocs are willing to post on BBSs such as this one as long as they are allowed a certain amount of anonymity. We had a practicing pdoc posting here at one time, but I haven't seen her in a while. I think perhaps she was too smart (is there such a thing?), and her knowledge of meds made some people uncomfortable. It's sad since she had so much to offer. I hope that she eventually returns.
>
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There's a difference between being a practicing psychiatrist and saying you're a practicing psychiatrist. But I think perhaps she was so despondent over having her credentials questioned that she committed suicide. I hope everyone is really sorry now. They were just jealous because she was smarter than them. (Well,hey, my speculation is a good as anyone else's.) Maybe we should all just stick to the facts??????
Posted by Snowie on August 24, 2000, at 21:04:42
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards, posted by Oddzilla on August 24, 2000, at 21:01:00
Odd,
Please do not respond to anymore of my posts, and I will do likewise. Thank you.
Snowie
> No hostility here!!!! Do I detect accusations of hostility coming from you ? I feel slandered and hurt. Please take it somewhere else quickly.
>
> Thank you
> Oddzilla (in tears)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```````````````````````````
> >
> > Do I detect hostility coming from you? If so, please do me a favor and take it somewhere else. Thank you.
> >
> > I knew she was a pdoc from another site I visit. She wanted to maintain her anomymity there as well, and the host of that BBS (a pdoc himself) respected her wishes. Here was his comment: "___ is a psychiatrist. He wishes to remain totally anon. His writing speaks to his/her qualifications. We are all grateful for his/her participation on this website."
> >
> > Snowie
> >
> >
> > > > I think some pdocs are willing to post on BBSs such as this one as long as they are allowed a certain amount of anonymity. We had a practicing pdoc posting here at one time, but I haven't seen her in a while. I think perhaps she was too smart (is there such a thing?), and her knowledge of meds made some people uncomfortable. It's sad since she had so much to offer. I hope that she eventually returns.
> >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There's a difference between being a practicing psychiatrist and saying you're a practicing psychiatrist. But I think perhaps she was so despondent over having her credentials questioned that she committed suicide. I hope everyone is really sorry now. They were just jealous because she was smarter than them. (Well,hey, my speculation is a good as anyone else's.) Maybe we should all just stick to the facts??????
Posted by Oddzilla on August 24, 2000, at 21:10:06
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards » Oddzilla, posted by Snowie on August 24, 2000, at 21:04:42
> Odd,
>
> Please do not respond to anymore of my posts, and I will do likewise. Thank you.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sorry. You don't make the rules for me, I encourage you to choose which posts to answer for yourself. I intend to do likewise. Please try to be kind and non-accusatory.
Thanks
Oddzilla
Posted by Snowie on August 24, 2000, at 22:03:46
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards » Snowie, posted by Oddzilla on August 24, 2000, at 21:10:06
Oddzilla,
I have always tried to be civil, and was only responding to your post in which you stated: "But I think perhaps she was so despondent over having her credentials questioned that she committed suicide. I hope everyone is really sorry now. They were just jealous because she was smarter than them...." If you didn't intend that to be unkind, derogatory and hostile, then I certainly owe you an apology, but for the life of me I can't imagine how else you might have meant it. The words speak for themselves.
Snowie
Posted by Oddzilla on August 24, 2000, at 22:18:40
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards » Oddzilla, posted by Snowie on August 24, 2000, at 22:03:46
> Oddzilla,
>
> I have always tried to be civil, and was only responding to your post in which you stated: "But I think perhaps she was so despondent over having her credentials questioned that she committed suicide. I hope everyone is really sorry now. They were just jealous because she was smarter than them...." If you didn't intend that to be unkind, derogatory and hostile, then I certainly owe you an apology, but for the life of me I can't imagine how else you might have meant it. The words speak for themselves.
>
> Snowie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think perhaps she was too smart (is there such a thing?), and her knowledge of meds made some people uncomfortable
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I meant those words exactly the same way you meant those I suppose :o) I still believe the best thing would be to stick to facts and not conjecture. Please think about how you meant those words:o) That is what I was replying to.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 24, 2000, at 23:16:16
In reply to Re: Article on Problems with Medical Bulletin Boards » Snowie, posted by Oddzilla on August 24, 2000, at 19:38:11
> There's a difference between being a practicing psychiatrist and saying you're a practicing psychiatrist.
That's certainly true. It's a tough one, the credentials issue.
Clinicians could reassure readers about the information they provide by providing also their credentials, but by doing so they would identify themselves and thereby make themselves easier to sue.
BTW, who are you talking about? I'd also be curious what other web site that was...
> But I think perhaps she was so despondent over having her credentials questioned that she committed suicide. I hope everyone is really sorry now. They were just jealous because she was smarter than them. (Well,hey, my speculation is a good as anyone else's.)
All speculations are not created equal. Sarcasm is rarely supportive or educational. And suicide isn't something to joke about. I've already warned you:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000729/msgs/42399.html
So I think I need to block you now. Good luck with your eGroup,
Bob
Posted by alicefranklin on August 25, 2000, at 21:49:11
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 24, 2000, at 23:16:16
nm
Posted by Cass on August 26, 2000, at 11:16:01
In reply to YOU WILL BE MISSED, ODDZILLA!, posted by alicefranklin on August 25, 2000, at 21:49:11
nm
Posted by Adam on August 26, 2000, at 12:56:15
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 24, 2000, at 23:16:16
> > There's a difference between being a practicing psychiatrist and saying you're a practicing psychiatrist.
>
> That's certainly true. It's a tough one, the credentials issue.
>
It might be possible for someone to provide convincing evidence of their credentials without revealing their specific identity. Or they could simply say "I am a board-certified doctor of psychiatric medicine," and respond to questions they felt comfortable addressing appropriately. I am willing to believe Cam is a pharmacist without searching for his publications, and his posts by themselves provide a certain amount of evidence of the truhfulness of his self-identification. There's little way to know anything with complete confidence online, so perhaps the easiest way to deal with that is to accept it. Based on some of my posts, I have been asked, a couple of times, if I was a medical practitioner of some sort, to which I answered no, I am a rank amateur who has a personal and professional interest in biomedical science. But maybe I lied. I would imagine my ignorance of ethical boundaries in the dissemination of medical facts and minutae might give the discerning reader some indication of the truth, as it were.> Clinicians could reassure readers about the information they provide by providing also their credentials, but by doing so they would identify themselves and thereby make themselves easier to sue.
>
Sad, but true. In "the writings of Dr. Ivan Goldberg" (an example of a guy who speaks his mind online) he asserts that some doctors don't like to prescribe MAOIs because they're afraid of being sued. It would appear, from my perspective, that even doing the right thing can involve a certain level of risk. It seems to come with the territory. I do not know how often physicians are made the victims of frivolous lawsuits, which are a sad symptom of American litigeousness. However, from what I can see, the average American physician, especially the specialist, is rewarded handsomely for his or her long years of training and professional rigors. In other nations the professional rewards and risks seem likewise somewhat proportional.
>
> > But I think perhaps she was so despondent over having her credentials questioned that she committed suicide. I hope everyone is really sorry now. They were just jealous because she was smarter than them. (Well,hey, my speculation is a good as anyone else's.)
>
> All speculations are not created equal. Sarcasm is rarely supportive or educational. And suicide isn't something to joke about.I agree. Not funny.
Which gets me to something I'd like to clarify. I am very grateful for this site. I see this place, your valuable contribution, Dr. Bob, as quite above and beyond the requirements of the average mensch. As a little aside, I never expected you, as the mediator of this board, would directly address the factualness of things said on this board, so long as the discourse is civil, as you say.
Thank you.
Adam
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 27, 2000, at 14:37:38
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Adam on August 26, 2000, at 12:56:15
> It might be possible for someone to provide convincing evidence of their credentials without revealing their specific identity. Or they could simply say "I am a board-certified doctor of psychiatric medicine," and respond to questions they felt comfortable addressing appropriately. I am willing to believe Cam is a pharmacist without searching for his publications, and his posts by themselves provide a certain amount of evidence of the truhfulness of his self-identification. There's little way to know anything with complete confidence online, so perhaps the easiest way to deal with that is to accept it.
It's tricky.
"Convincing" I guess is in the eye of the beholder. On the one hand, I think to some extent posts can stand on their own and readers can judge for themselves what to make of them. Especially if they're from a regular poster. And at the top of the main page, I do link to some information on the quality of information:
http://www.dr-bob.org/quality.html
which I hope increases awareness of the issues. From this perspective, good information is good information, and credentials are secondary. Someone could not have credentials and provide good information, or someone could have credentials and provide bad information.
The problem with someone simply saying they have certain credentials is that they might not. Though it would be easy just to accept what they say, it could be risky, too. To me, to be convincing, credentials would need to be verifiable, and to be verifiable, the person's identity would be necessary.
I think if someone says they *don't* have certain credentials, however, there's less risk in just accepting that, and that does clarify the situation.
Bob
Posted by Adam on August 30, 2000, at 13:18:30
In reply to Re: credentials, posted by Dr. Bob on August 27, 2000, at 14:37:38
>
> It's tricky.
>
Yes, I suppose it is.> "Convincing" I guess is in the eye of the beholder. On the one hand, I think to some extent posts can stand on their own and readers can judge for themselves what to make of them. Especially if they're from a regular poster. And at the top of the main page, I do link to some information on the quality of information:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/quality.html
>
> which I hope increases awareness of the issues. From this perspective, good information is good information, and credentials are secondary. Someone could not have credentials and provide good information, or someone could have credentials and provide bad information.
>
Which makes the whole issue all the more discouraging. We are advised to give the words of non-experts a giant chunk of salt, but we cannot assume a certified expert should get our full confidence, it would seem. I suppose credentials plus pointers to various accolades might be a confidence booster, but since we are unlikely to get either, much less an anonymous expert poster of some sort, one still may be stuck doing a lot of research on their own, often without knowing quite where to look or how to begin. I guess I'm somewhat of a malcontent at times, but I just feel like things oughtta be better, and it probably wouldn't be that hard to make improvements (not referring to this site). But, again, I'm no expert ;).> The problem with someone simply saying they have certain credentials is that they might not. Though it would be easy just to accept what they say, it could be risky, too. To me, to be convincing, credentials would need to be verifiable, and to be verifiable, the person's identity would be necessary.
>
> I think if someone says they *don't* have certain credentials, however, there's less risk in just accepting that, and that does clarify the situation.
>
> BobGood advice. Thanks!
This is the end of the thread.
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