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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 12 to 36 of 50. Go back in thread:
Posted by Greg on August 10, 2000, at 7:57:30
In reply to Re: Problems with alcohol ... Lisa, posted by danf on August 10, 2000, at 2:02:55
danf,
I agree that Lisa has to make the first move herself, no one can or should try to force her to get help. But I would ask that you don't generalize your statements about no one here being able to help. I have to assume that you are not an alcoholic by your comments, if I'm wrong please correct me. After the admitance of the problem, a good support structure is critical to a succesful recovery. Without that, I would not be alive today. A lot of people here have offered to support her. That is one of the greatest gifts that we can to someone. If you don't feel that you can help, fine. But from the looks of things, there are others of us here that feel that we can, and are willing to do so.
Lisa,
I know what you're going thru is hell, I've been there. There is hope. Almost everyone here has offered their e-mails to you. Take advantage of the love and support that we are offering if you feel that you can. We've traveled your road before, we understand. We can offer support, but you must provide the action to make it happen.
I have you in my prayers and hope that you can use us to help you thru this terrible time. My e-mails are as follows:
[email protected] (home)
[email protected] (work)Give me a yell if you need some info, or just need to talk, anytime!
A big hug to you,
Greg
Posted by Greg on August 10, 2000, at 9:05:46
In reply to Re: Problems with alcohol - danf and Lisa, posted by Greg on August 10, 2000, at 7:57:30
Lisa,
I thought of one other thing you might be interested in. If you are really looking for a deterent to drinking, there is a drug called "antabuse" that is given primarily to those in alcohol recovery. It processes any injested alcohol into a form of formaldahyde (sp?). If you dring while on this med it will make you very sick. I've always had to test the waters with everything, so when I was on it I tried drinking. I got so sick for two days that I wished I was dead. I know it's an extreme solution, but depending on your situation it can be a very powerful deterent.
Greg
Posted by Lisa Simpson on August 10, 2000, at 9:06:31
In reply to Re: Problems with alcohol - danf and Lisa, posted by Greg on August 10, 2000, at 7:57:30
When I dialled into this board yesterday, I felt really down – I felt even worse after reading that single, stark message (I know you meant to help, danf, but first and foremost I need someone to be friendly to me). When I dialled in today, I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw all those messages! Thank you all so much.
Shar, you are right, I do have problems that have triggered this off. The Christmas before last I nearly died a frightening death while on my first visit to the States, and every day I can’t get it out of my mind. Drinking helps me forget! During last year, I saw a psychiatrist and was given a Prozac lookalike. At the end of the year, the pyschiatrist gave me up, and I gave the Prozac up. Also during the year I had severe asthma attacks, blackouts, fits… you name it, I had it! I don't know why something that happened 1.5 years ago should have such a profound effect, but it has.
I take Xanax regularly which helps with the anxiety – but not enough to stop me drinking as well.
Tdaneen, I think that way sounds better to me than AA – I’m not sure about AA.
And Dari, I did smile when I read your post - or is it Darik :)
Greg (and Matt & Dari), I would love to email you. It may be difficult, though, to do it privately! My husband uses my ISP on occasion.
Lisa
Posted by danf on August 10, 2000, at 9:26:19
In reply to Re: Problems with alcohol - danf and Lisa, posted by Lisa Simpson on August 10, 2000, at 9:06:31
Lisa,
I will say it again......
I think you need lots of support to quit. you need someone on the other end of a phone or in person.
a forum is a lousy way to get close support.
it is not a substitute for close support. AA is one of the best things available.
You should not try to substitute this forum for AA.
I know some of the others are well meaning & you can get support here. it should be secondary to AA.
AA will assign you a "big brother /sister" that will be available when you need help.
a terse response does not mean uncaring. I do hope you get the help you need.
typed words are not the same as a friend you can talk to.
Posted by shar on August 10, 2000, at 15:23:12
In reply to Re: Problems with alcohol - Lisa, posted by danf on August 10, 2000, at 9:26:19
Lisa and everyone,
Well, I think we are all correct. We are sharing what has worked with us, and having worked for us, it's worth putting out there (I didn't see any ideas that would damage anyone).
And, I agree with danf that the drinker has to take the action that will start the healing process, and follow through day by day. That is true with any type of addiction--drugs, alcohol, eating, etc. And, because that process can be so intense, this board alone probably would not be enough to get anyone sober or to keep anyone sober. Often, during the process, one may need a voice RIGHT NOW while the glass is on the counter and the bottle in hand--and we on this board can't do that.
What we can do is offer Lisa encouragement, share our experiences, help during the down times, celebrate the successes, pat her virtual back for working so hard! Lisa (like all of us) will do as she wants. I will be happy to stick with her through whatever she tries, to encourage her to hang on and heal.
IMHO letting go of alcohol is best dealt with in person because so many different thoughts/feelings/behaviors can come up--we are putting away our anesthetic! Yessir, like ripping off the bandage or something. All of a sudden here we are, sober and not planning to drink--so, what do we plan to do? Hearing and seeing and talking to and hugging others who have a similar experience to ours is one thing to do, one way to get moving, start the journey, hold it together, keep on keeping on. Again IMHO.
(Lisa--to me--there is nothing like the feeling of going up front at an AA meeting to get a desire chip, or a 30-day chip or that one-year chip, while others applaud and smile, and you know you have your own goofy smile, and feel so proud! It can fill up many holes in the heart and soul.)
All the best good luck to Lisa and every one of us!!
Shar
Posted by shar on August 10, 2000, at 15:38:26
In reply to Re: Problems with alcohol or any other excess..., posted by shar on August 10, 2000, at 15:23:12
I also wanted to say that almost dying is terribly traumatic and it would make sense that you still have a bad time with the memory.
What could be worse?
It may be worth your while to locate a good therapist, and spend some time on that. Especially if you are getting sober.
Shar
Posted by Billb on August 10, 2000, at 18:35:51
In reply to P.S. And furthermore...., posted by shar on August 10, 2000, at 15:38:26
> Lisa, my thoughts and prayers are with you. You CAN overcome this and attain the life that you dream of.
Posted by Lisa Simpson on August 11, 2000, at 5:41:18
In reply to P.S. And furthermore...., posted by shar on August 10, 2000, at 15:38:26
Thanks, Shar, for all your supportive words... the trouble with AA is that I couldn't attend it without my family knowing. And I don't want them to know. If my husband knew, he would probably support me as he does know I drink too much, though not to what extent - but he would also tell everyone about it. Telling my husband something secret is like taking an ad in the national press - he cannot keep it to himself.
I'm going to start on Sunday - I can't start Friday or Saturday, as they are my most difficult days, and I would fail straight away. I need to work up to them! I have one thing to help me - a thought I must keep thinking all through the evening - when I drink, I feel really ill the next day, and still have to go to work. Wouldn't it be nice to feel *good* in the mornings. (You see, Greg, I don't need Antabuse to make me ill!)
I find if I don't have an appetite, I don't drink. Sometime ago I took some diet pills, and while I was on them, I did not drink. Unfortunately these pills have now been withdrawn from sale. If I could find a replacement for those...
Anyhow, Sunday is the day. Please send me your thoughts Sunday evening! (Remembering I am GMT in London!)
Lisa
Posted by Kath on August 11, 2000, at 9:06:24
In reply to Problems with Alcohol - Shar / Greg, posted by Lisa Simpson on August 11, 2000, at 5:41:18
> Anyhow, Sunday is the day. Please send me your thoughts Sunday evening! (Remembering I am GMT in London!)
>
> LisaHi Lisa - I don't know what GMT means (sorry).
I really admire your courage in being open to yourself (& all of us here) about your drinking problem. I find that just being able to "talk" about my problems & know people care, helps me. I have "in person" people, therapy-type people, & people here, who I talk with & that combination sure works for me.
Yesterday I was at my "women's group". It was only the second time I've been there, but even the first time I realized it's going to be helpful for me. The women in the group have various problems they're dealing with - alcoholism, drug addiction, co-dependence (that's mine), family members abusing drugs and/or alcohol (my 16-yr old son does). Yesterday, a woman was there for the first time & she had just finished 3 week alcohol treatment. She was just back at work & was dealing with the fact that it had "gotten around" work that she had just been in alcohol-treatment program. She was very uncomfortable with that. During the conversation, one person said, "Remember, you're only as "sick" as the secrets you keep." It was pointed out that we often thing people will judge us negatively for something that we are ashamed of. Often people don't. Often people are way more understanding & compassionate than we expect. It sounds like your husband knows you drink; simply doesn't know that it's getting out-of-hand. Please be compassionate with yourself...you have undergone a terrible experience. So what if it was 1.5 or so years ago. It was a shock; it was terrifying; it haunts you. It is perfectly natural and normal in my opinion, that it would haunt you and even paralyze you from doing certain things. It's quite possible that you're suffering from "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome". I have a friend who suffers from that, and she is on a government pension, so PTSS is a real and recognized condition. (Believe me, our Ontario, Canada government would NOT give money to someone unless it was a definite medical reason!!) It seems to me (in my sometimes not too humble opinion) that you are ashamed of the drinking, but the drinking is just how you're dealing with how you are FEELING as a result of something awful that happened to you. To me, if people love you realize how traumatized you still are from what happened, it's pretty likely they'd be supportive of you.
People who have had an accident & have had to take narcotics for the intense pain sometimes get addicted to those pain-killers, and over-use the pain-killers. It's just something that sometimes happens; it doesn't mean they're bad people. In your case, you have probably been "self-medicating"...using alcohol to help you live with your pain from that experience (& maybe other pain in your life also). It seems like your use has gotten out-of-hand & you need some help with that problem. But just taking the pain-killing medicine out of the picture won't be the solution. You still have your mental & emotional pain to deal with. You have been carrying on with your life while dealing with a tremendously stressful situation. Please try to find someone who can help you with this pain & fear. Perhaps a place to start would be your family doctor...you don't even need to talk about the alcohol part, if you don't feel like it, although once that's out in the open you can get help & support with it. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to keep that a secret. You probably won't believe this, but you have NOTHING to be ashamed of in this, Lisa. Nothing.
Please keep posting. We all care about you. Everyone has their own way of suggesting how to deal with your problem, but the one thing we all have in common is we care about you & have only your best interests in our hearts.Take care of you - you're definitely worth it.
Love, Kath
Posted by Thomas W on August 11, 2000, at 14:49:42
In reply to Problems with Alcohol - Shar / Greg, posted by Lisa Simpson on August 11, 2000, at 5:41:18
> Thanks, Shar, for all your supportive words... the trouble with AA is that I couldn't attend it without my family knowing. And I don't want them to know. If my husband knew, he would probably support me as he does know I drink too much, though not to what extent - but he would also tell everyone about it. Telling my husband something secret is like taking an ad in the national press - he cannot keep it to himself.
>
> I'm going to start on Sunday - I can't start Friday or Saturday, as they are my most difficult days, and I would fail straight away. I need to work up to them! I have one thing to help me - a thought I must keep thinking all through the evening - when I drink, I feel really ill the next day, and still have to go to work. Wouldn't it be nice to feel *good* in the mornings. (You see, Greg, I don't need Antabuse to make me ill!)
>
> I find if I don't have an appetite, I don't drink. Sometime ago I took some diet pills, and while I was on them, I did not drink. Unfortunately these pills have now been withdrawn from sale. If I could find a replacement for those...
>
> Anyhow, Sunday is the day. Please send me your thoughts Sunday evening! (Remembering I am GMT in London!)
>
> LisaLisa,
I'm in the same situation that you are and trying
to decide how and when to start. I keep thinking
I have this thing licked; but no, I don't and I
know I don't and it's time to get some other's to
help me with it. If my spouse found out about it
it would be something that could be used as a
"hammer" and I don't need that. I'm with you. I
believe it can be licked. I'm like you, I don't
want anything else to make me sicker cause the "day
afters" are already sick enough, and I'm sick of
them too. I am a closet drinker, like to be alone
cause I'm ashamed of it. Of course, the more I'm
alone, the more I drink cause there is no deterrent
to how much one drinks. Once I get started I don't
know or even think about when to quit. It's just
something that needs to be "put to bed" for good.
I never wanted to do AA but I'm getting ready to go.
May be going tomorrow before my kids soccer
practice begins. I'm ready to be rid of that
addiction.......WISH YOU WELL TOO !!
Posted by caroline on August 13, 2000, at 3:05:16
In reply to Problems with Alcohol - Shar / Greg, posted by Lisa Simpson on August 11, 2000, at 5:41:18
Lisa,
I just read your posts. It's Sunday morning now UK GMT. Best of luck tonight. I'll be thinking of you, as I'm sure will many others.
Caroline
Posted by Lisa Simpson on August 14, 2000, at 10:59:05
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Shar / Greg, posted by Thomas W on August 11, 2000, at 14:49:42
Kath, thank you so much for your words. It means a lot to me that someone has taken the trouble to write in such detail to me. (GMT by the way, stands for Greenwich Mean Time!) And thank you Thomas for your note. It looks like you know what I'm going through. What have you tried so far? (And thank you Caroline for thinking of me last night.)
Well, I spent the evening without a bottle of vodka in my hands. I drank enough diet lemonade to sink a ship. Surprisingly I managed to get to sleep when I went to bed. And for the first time, this morning I didn't feel sick.
Tonight is going to be more difficult. One day is easy. I've done one day before. It's doing two, three, four days that's the problem.
The other problem is, of course, that deep down I don't really want to stop. I enjoy drinking... very much. Why should I stop? After a day at work, I deserve something to help me unwind. Is the fact that it's a danger to my health, it makes me sick, it makes me fat, it makes me bad-tempered to people around me, good enough reasons to make me stop?
I hope so.
Lisa
Posted by afatchic on August 14, 2000, at 19:15:40
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Kath/Thomas/Caroline, posted by Lisa Simpson on August 14, 2000, at 10:59:05
I've had problems with alcohol since I was a teenager. At age 37, I finally feel that I'm OK. There's something that I wanted to pass along to others. I discovered that when I took trazodone, my craving for alcohol diminished. Even better, when I took Wellbutrin the desire nearly vanished. I don't take Wellbutrin or any other prescription AD now but it seems like the Wellbutrin has a lasting effect.
> Kath, thank you so much for your words. It means a lot to me that someone has taken the trouble to write in such detail to me. (GMT by the way, stands for Greenwich Mean Time!) And thank you Thomas for your note. It looks like you know what I'm going through. What have you tried so far? (And thank you Caroline for thinking of me last night.)
>
> Well, I spent the evening without a bottle of vodka in my hands. I drank enough diet lemonade to sink a ship. Surprisingly I managed to get to sleep when I went to bed. And for the first time, this morning I didn't feel sick.
>
> Tonight is going to be more difficult. One day is easy. I've done one day before. It's doing two, three, four days that's the problem.
>
> The other problem is, of course, that deep down I don't really want to stop. I enjoy drinking... very much. Why should I stop? After a day at work, I deserve something to help me unwind. Is the fact that it's a danger to my health, it makes me sick, it makes me fat, it makes me bad-tempered to people around me, good enough reasons to make me stop?
>
> I hope so.
>
> Lisa
Posted by Kath on August 14, 2000, at 19:57:36
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Kath/Thomas/Caroline, posted by Lisa Simpson on August 14, 2000, at 10:59:05
Hi Lisa - I'm thinking of you. Lots. As they say in AA "one day at a time" or "one hour at a time" or "one minute at a time" or even "one second at a time". I drink alot of tea & sometimes & think it's bad for me & decide to cut back or stop drinking it for a while. The way I do it is usually like this:
Thought: I want a cup of tea now.
Reply: I'll wait a bit. I don't need it right now, I want to stop, so I know I can handle not having one right now.
Later thought: I think I'll have that tea now.
Reply: Oh, I can wait a bit. I succeeded earlier in not having it. I can wait a bit longer.
etc.I am probably addicted to caffeine & it's not easy not to drink tea, but the above formula does sometimes work.
I hope you re-read my post about therapy & the energy it takes to keep secrets, etc. I'm not in your shoes, so I don't know how it feels at all, but I do think counselling or therapy might benefit you greatly.
Absolute congratulations on the lemonade substitution. If there are additional yummy drinks that you like, that might help to have them on hand. I don't know where you live, but here in Ontario, Canada, there are all sorts of new & interesting non-alcoholic drinks.
Best of luck & kind thoughts, Kath
> Kath, thank you so much for your words. It means a lot to me that someone has taken the trouble to write in such detail to me. (GMT by the way, stands for Greenwich Mean Time!) And thank you Thomas for your note. It looks like you know what I'm going through. What have you tried so far? (And thank you Caroline for thinking of me last night.)
>
> Well, I spent the evening without a bottle of vodka in my hands. I drank enough diet lemonade to sink a ship. Surprisingly I managed to get to sleep when I went to bed. And for the first time, this morning I didn't feel sick.
>
> Tonight is going to be more difficult. One day is easy. I've done one day before. It's doing two, three, four days that's the problem.
>
> The other problem is, of course, that deep down I don't really want to stop. I enjoy drinking... very much. Why should I stop? After a day at work, I deserve something to help me unwind. Is the fact that it's a danger to my health, it makes me sick, it makes me fat, it makes me bad-tempered to people around me, good enough reasons to make me stop?
>
> I hope so.
>
> Lisa
Posted by shar on August 14, 2000, at 22:19:02
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol » Lisa Simpson, posted by Kath on August 14, 2000, at 19:57:36
First of all, Hooray for you!!! Well done! Way to go!!! A day is a big deal, don't minimize it! Don't think "only 3, 4 or 5 days mean something" this 1 day you did is highly significant! Pats on the back to you.
The reason to stop drinking is (close your eyes, think about what you will be like in 5 years if you drink every night, and by then, probably every day; you will have a red nose and red veins all around your nostrils; will you be caring and nurturing to yourself or anyone else? Will you love yourself or anyone else? )......so, the reason for not drinking is life. Choosing life over the existence alcohol will provide.
Best of all things to you, and hang on, hang on, hang on!
I would still like to be drinking, too. I love to get drunk. But....(see above).
Shar
Posted by FredPotter on August 14, 2000, at 22:59:44
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol -- Reasons to Stop, posted by shar on August 14, 2000, at 22:19:02
Lisa I stopped drinking when my liver enzymes showed some damage. The Dr also found I was diabetic. So my self-medication had to stop. The first week was hard, particularly as if ever I needed a drink it was THEN. The state of my liver was making me feel ill, anxious and depressed, I believe. Did I say anxious? That doesn't quite describe it. But after 3 weeks I discovered an inner strength. My life seemed worth living again. I wasn't nearly so anxious and my interests returned. I found in the past that I needed to drink in order to get enthusiastic about anything. And now I have all this energy, and I'm thinner.
I've now become a very light drinker of wine. It's not a generally good idea but thankfully I seem to have managed it. However, if I have more than 3 glasses (small pub glasses) I feel groggy later. Basically, and I never thought I would say it, I enjoy feeling sober. I never used to lose control so I didn't know if or when I would stop drinking, but it was just too regular. My liver seems to tell me now that it doesn't like more than the odd glass.
I have found a substitute however. I've found that if I drink kava regularly I can learn to feel its effects. And it's not a feeling of drunkenness. Perhaps someone will tell me that's not a good idea.
Anyway, just a few thoughts. I should think anyone can give up if I can. I never thought I could do it, but there are great compensations waiting for you. All the best Lisa
Fred
Posted by Kath on August 15, 2000, at 8:16:46
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol -- Reasons to Stop, posted by FredPotter on August 14, 2000, at 22:59:44
Hi Lisa - Just wanted to let you know that my thoughts are with you. Would be glad to hear how it's going.
Warm thoughts, Kath
Lisa I stopped drinking when my liver enzymes showed some damage. The Dr also found I was diabetic. So my self-medication had to stop. The first week was hard, particularly as if ever I needed a drink it was THEN. The state of my liver was making me feel ill, anxious and depressed, I believe. Did I say anxious? That doesn't quite describe it. But after 3 weeks I discovered an inner strength. My life seemed worth living again. I wasn't nearly so anxious and my interests returned. I found in the past that I needed to drink in order to get enthusiastic about anything. And now I have all this energy, and I'm thinner.
>
> I've now become a very light drinker of wine. It's not a generally good idea but thankfully I seem to have managed it. However, if I have more than 3 glasses (small pub glasses) I feel groggy later. Basically, and I never thought I would say it, I enjoy feeling sober. I never used to lose control so I didn't know if or when I would stop drinking, but it was just too regular. My liver seems to tell me now that it doesn't like more than the odd glass.
>
> I have found a substitute however. I've found that if I drink kava regularly I can learn to feel its effects. And it's not a feeling of drunkenness. Perhaps someone will tell me that's not a good idea.
>
> Anyway, just a few thoughts. I should think anyone can give up if I can. I never thought I could do it, but there are great compensations waiting for you. All the best Lisa
> Fred
Posted by Lisa Simpson on August 15, 2000, at 9:32:41
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol -- Reasons to Stop, posted by FredPotter on August 14, 2000, at 22:59:44
Kath, that's a good idea - I'll stock up with lots of real interesting, different drinks to try.
Thanks for your post, afatchic - can you tell me what Wellbrutin is normally prescribed for?
Fred, thanks for your post, too. I dread to think what my liver must be like now. (What's kava, by the way?)
Did any of you others with alcohol problems ever have blackouts or fits?
Well, my second day last night. Drank more lemonade, fizzy grapefruit, even some KoolAid that a friend had sent from the States (how's that for desperate!) This morning, although I didn't feel sick, I had a massive upset stomach. Strange, that.
Wish me luck for night no. 3.
Lisa
Posted by Greg on August 15, 2000, at 10:18:01
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol , posted by Lisa Simpson on August 15, 2000, at 9:32:41
Lisa,
I didn't see from your prior posts if you had made it to a meeing or not, if you did, I d like to hear what you thought of it. Congrats on two nights, the early part is the hardest! Remember, don't worry about tomorrow or next week, just take it one day at a time! We're here if you need us.
Hugs,
Greg
Posted by afatchic on August 15, 2000, at 18:08:21
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol , posted by Lisa Simpson on August 15, 2000, at 9:32:41
Thanks for your post, afatchic - can you tell me what Wellbrutin is normally prescribed for?
>
>Wellbutrin is an antidepressant. It's also sold under the name Zyban and prescribed to help people quit smoking.Did any of you others with alcohol problems ever have blackouts or fits?
Wow, I'm telling all my secrets here! Yes, I had blackouts quite frequently and I didn't have to drink large amounts. I've had friends tell me that I didn't appear drunk even though I'd had a total blackout of the evening before.
>
Wish me luck for night no. 3.I wish you more than luck, I wish you serenity.
>
> Lisa
Posted by allisonm on August 15, 2000, at 21:36:29
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol -- Reasons to Stop, posted by shar on August 14, 2000, at 22:19:02
To those struggling with a drinking problem,
I wish you all the best in what may become a lifelong battle. I have seen how very hard it is to stop.Dying from cirrhosis can be a slow process. You might develop a red nose. You might not. My mother didn't, but her skin and the whites of her eyes turned yellow. She used to tell me that the drops she took for glaucoma made her eyes yellow. She didn't think I knew she was drinking or how much, but that is one of the insidious things about addiction: it blinds people to what's happening around them. They think they can hide it. Family members wonder and worry for awhile. Eventually they learn all of the signs. Then they become silent watchdogs, listening to every inflection in the voice on the phone, listening for slurred words, watching a misstep down the hall, looking for hidden bottles, smelling the dirty glasses in the sink, smelling breath after a kiss goodnight, a hug goodbye or whenever they can get close enough. Family members know more than you think. You are fooling yourself if you don't think they know.
Maybe a change in liver enzymes is enough of a scare for some. It was not for my mother. She used to boast that the liver could regenerate itself, and it can to a point.
My mother had a drinking problem when I was quite young. She was hospitalized with cirrhosis in 1973 when I was in 6th grade. When I was in high school and college, she would become incoherent almost every night. She didn't hide it. After her father died in 1987, my mother drank continually, but she was hiding it. I was living in another state and didn't see the signs. She started feeling like she had the flu. The veins in her stomach and her esophagus enlarged and she began to bleed internally. She started to vomit blood uncontrollably and had bloody diarrhea. I cannot really describe what a bathroom can look like after something like this happens. Blood is splattered high on the walls, all over and around the toilet, all over the floor. It looks like a murder scene. You cannot imagine.
The protein from blood in the stomach will overload a damaged liver and shut it down. Bilirubin and ammonia levels rise to toxic levels because the liver cannot eliminate them. Blood loss leads to a drop in blood pressure. My mother went into cardiac arrest in the emergency room. They broke her front teeth out when they put the breathing tube down her throat. She was in a coma for three days. She could not breathe well on her own, so I had to authorize a tracheotomy, which she endured for three weeks. I will never forget the fear in her eyes as she looked at me while they wheeled her to the OR. She developed pneumonia in both her lungs and an infection that damages heart valves.
When the liver stops working, it becomes a waiting game. Doctors cannot tell you whether it will start working again. There is no magic test. You have to sit and wait and wait as they check the toxin levels in the blood over and over until some change is detected. It can take days before a verdict is reached. If the liver does not recover, the toxins build up in your system and your skin turns an unnatural ochre green. You fall into a coma. Your breathing becomes labored. You die. I learned that from a column someone wrote for the Washington Post about watching their own mother die of liver failure from alcohol abuse. Doctors wouldn't tell me when I asked them what would happen.
My mom was in coronary intensive care for three weeks and another week in a regular hospital room, but she survived. Insurance only paid a small part, and my mother was left with a $37,000 hospital bill in 1988. None of this deterred her from continuing to drink. She was in and out of rehab over the next 10 years. She never was able to stick with AA because it made her feel guilty and bad. She tried very hard. I'll never know how much she really struggled with her addiction. She told me once that the longest she was ever able to stay completely sober was one 9-month period.
She was arrested once for DWI. I had her arrested once for endangering herself: her blood-alcohol level was .33 and it took 18 hours for her to sober up in the hospital. She agreed to rehab again, but didn't work. She was angry with me for a long time after that.
Eventually her liver function became bad enough that not alcohol, but a bleeding ulcer shut her liver down. More vomiting of blood, another coma, another waiting game. When she toppled, drunk, over a chair in her house and suffered a compound fracture in her ankle in 1995, the doctors could only use pins or screws. They wanted to put in a plate, but said that it would have been too dangerous with her reduced liver function. When she developed cancer and lost a breast a couple of years later, it was riskier surgery and breast reconstruction was not an option. She qualified for a liver transplant, but would not consider it. I think she knew that she would not take good care of a new liver.
In the last few years of her life, she was hospitalized about every six months. Even a simple mineral deficiency would put her in the hospital, incoherent from the elevated level of ammonia in her system.
Because her liver could not clear her medications at a regular pace, the antidepressants she'd started taking in 1998 built up in her system and she complained about being woosy and unsteady on her feet. I had just started taking ADs and didn't know a lot about them. I suggested that she ask to switch to a different one or to a lower dose. Her doctor was not paying attention. I think he had given up. Not long after, she fell and hit her head on a curb downtown. A few days later she was dead. All I know from the man painting her house and the neighbors' accounts was that she wasn't feeling well that day and had decided to lie down on the couch for a time. At one point she called her doctor's office. I know this because there was a message on her answering machine saying that an ambulance was on its way. She went into cardiac arrest in the ambulancce and died in the emergency room. She was 62. Her doctor and I decided not to bother with an autopsy. Whether it was a blood clot from her previous fall or something else, it didn't really matter. All of it was due to so many years of drinking.
I don't bring this up to garner any sympathy. I've had my fill over the last two years. I've pretty much dealt with my mother's death. I've detailed her life here with the hope that her story might help someone who still has a chance to get help and stop drinking before it's too late. Ultimately, you should do this for yourself. If you cannot stop for yourself, please try to see what you are (or could be) putting your family through.
Again, good luck and all best wishes.
allison
Posted by Kath on August 16, 2000, at 9:40:32
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long), posted by allisonm on August 15, 2000, at 21:36:29
Hi Allison,
Thank you so much for sharing the tremendously painful story. I'm going to print it out to have on hand if I even need to show it to someone. Thank you for repeating the terrible details of what your Mother went through.
I know you said you weren't asking for sympathy, but I hope it's okay for me to say that I feel for you having had to go through this. I'm sorry you lost your Mom in such a tragic way. Thank you for the fact that by sharing her story, you may have helped save lives.
Warm thoughts, Kath
> To those struggling with a drinking problem,
> I wish you all the best in what may become a lifelong battle. I have seen how very hard it is to stop.
>
> Dying from cirrhosis can be a slow process. You might develop a red nose. You might not. My mother didn't, but her skin and the whites of her eyes turned yellow. She used to tell me that the drops she took for glaucoma made her eyes yellow. She didn't think I knew she was drinking or how much, but that is one of the insidious things about addiction: it blinds people to what's happening around them. They think they can hide it. Family members wonder and worry for awhile. Eventually they learn all of the signs. Then they become silent watchdogs, listening to every inflection in the voice on the phone, listening for slurred words, watching a misstep down the hall, looking for hidden bottles, smelling the dirty glasses in the sink, smelling breath after a kiss goodnight, a hug goodbye or whenever they can get close enough. Family members know more than you think. You are fooling yourself if you don't think they know.
>
> Maybe a change in liver enzymes is enough of a scare for some. It was not for my mother. She used to boast that the liver could regenerate itself, and it can to a point.
>
> My mother had a drinking problem when I was quite young. She was hospitalized with cirrhosis in 1973 when I was in 6th grade. When I was in high school and college, she would become incoherent almost every night. She didn't hide it. After her father died in 1987, my mother drank continually, but she was hiding it. I was living in another state and didn't see the signs. She started feeling like she had the flu. The veins in her stomach and her esophagus enlarged and she began to bleed internally. She started to vomit blood uncontrollably and had bloody diarrhea. I cannot really describe what a bathroom can look like after something like this happens. Blood is splattered high on the walls, all over and around the toilet, all over the floor. It looks like a murder scene. You cannot imagine.
>
> The protein from blood in the stomach will overload a damaged liver and shut it down. Bilirubin and ammonia levels rise to toxic levels because the liver cannot eliminate them. Blood loss leads to a drop in blood pressure. My mother went into cardiac arrest in the emergency room. They broke her front teeth out when they put the breathing tube down her throat. She was in a coma for three days. She could not breathe well on her own, so I had to authorize a tracheotomy, which she endured for three weeks. I will never forget the fear in her eyes as she looked at me while they wheeled her to the OR. She developed pneumonia in both her lungs and an infection that damages heart valves.
>
> When the liver stops working, it becomes a waiting game. Doctors cannot tell you whether it will start working again. There is no magic test. You have to sit and wait and wait as they check the toxin levels in the blood over and over until some change is detected. It can take days before a verdict is reached. If the liver does not recover, the toxins build up in your system and your skin turns an unnatural ochre green. You fall into a coma. Your breathing becomes labored. You die. I learned that from a column someone wrote for the Washington Post about watching their own mother die of liver failure from alcohol abuse. Doctors wouldn't tell me when I asked them what would happen.
>
> My mom was in coronary intensive care for three weeks and another week in a regular hospital room, but she survived. Insurance only paid a small part, and my mother was left with a $37,000 hospital bill in 1988. None of this deterred her from continuing to drink. She was in and out of rehab over the next 10 years. She never was able to stick with AA because it made her feel guilty and bad. She tried very hard. I'll never know how much she really struggled with her addiction. She told me once that the longest she was ever able to stay completely sober was one 9-month period.
>
> She was arrested once for DWI. I had her arrested once for endangering herself: her blood-alcohol level was .33 and it took 18 hours for her to sober up in the hospital. She agreed to rehab again, but didn't work. She was angry with me for a long time after that.
>
> Eventually her liver function became bad enough that not alcohol, but a bleeding ulcer shut her liver down. More vomiting of blood, another coma, another waiting game. When she toppled, drunk, over a chair in her house and suffered a compound fracture in her ankle in 1995, the doctors could only use pins or screws. They wanted to put in a plate, but said that it would have been too dangerous with her reduced liver function. When she developed cancer and lost a breast a couple of years later, it was riskier surgery and breast reconstruction was not an option. She qualified for a liver transplant, but would not consider it. I think she knew that she would not take good care of a new liver.
>
> In the last few years of her life, she was hospitalized about every six months. Even a simple mineral deficiency would put her in the hospital, incoherent from the elevated level of ammonia in her system.
>
> Because her liver could not clear her medications at a regular pace, the antidepressants she'd started taking in 1998 built up in her system and she complained about being woosy and unsteady on her feet. I had just started taking ADs and didn't know a lot about them. I suggested that she ask to switch to a different one or to a lower dose. Her doctor was not paying attention. I think he had given up. Not long after, she fell and hit her head on a curb downtown. A few days later she was dead. All I know from the man painting her house and the neighbors' accounts was that she wasn't feeling well that day and had decided to lie down on the couch for a time. At one point she called her doctor's office. I know this because there was a message on her answering machine saying that an ambulance was on its way. She went into cardiac arrest in the ambulancce and died in the emergency room. She was 62. Her doctor and I decided not to bother with an autopsy. Whether it was a blood clot from her previous fall or something else, it didn't really matter. All of it was due to so many years of drinking.
>
> I don't bring this up to garner any sympathy. I've had my fill over the last two years. I've pretty much dealt with my mother's death. I've detailed her life here with the hope that her story might help someone who still has a chance to get help and stop drinking before it's too late. Ultimately, you should do this for yourself. If you cannot stop for yourself, please try to see what you are (or could be) putting your family through.
>
> Again, good luck and all best wishes.
>
> allison
>
>
>
Posted by Lisa Simpson on August 16, 2000, at 10:35:52
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long), posted by allisonm on August 15, 2000, at 21:36:29
Allison, I really don't know what to say to you. You shook me up - which was your intent, I guess. It must have been such a nightmare for you. And those seem like pretty good reasons to stop. Thank you for talking about it.
Greg, I haven't gone to a meeting - as I said earlier, I can't do it without my husband knowing, and I don't want him to know - he would tell everyone about it.
I had a step back last night - I went home, again without buying any alcohol to take home with me. But later in the evening, my husband produced a bottle of brandy, which he proceeded to open in front of me, and offered me some. I couldn't resist - I had some. Not much. But I still had some. I feel really bad about it today... such a failure, I am.
Posted by shar on August 16, 2000, at 14:22:11
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol , posted by Lisa Simpson on August 16, 2000, at 10:35:52
>
Lisa,
Please resist that voice that says you are a failure. Always remember that you were a success before you stepped back.Every alcoholic has bad times, most of them have at least one step back. You are so early in your sobriety it is extra hard for you to say no. That takes quite a bit of practice.
You would not believe the stories I've heard of people having a slip; some after months, some after years of sobriety. I think that's why there is so much emphasis on one day at a time (one hour/minute/etc. at a time).
If you can distract yourself or resist for one minute, pretty soon it will be an hour's worth. If you slip, it's done, and you can "get back on the horse" and remember that you had 2 or three days of sobriety, and feel really good about that.
Everything about sobriety is a little at a time. A little sobriety earns a big celebration (pats on the back, a special treat, whatever you can do to acknowledge your success), a slip earns another opportunity to think about why you want to stop, and lets you know how strong the draw of alcohol is. If all people beat themselves up because of a slip we probably wouldn't have any "recovering" alcoholics because beating oneself up does not encourage taking another try.
You should give yourself at least 49,823,496 tries before you say "failure" at all. This is long term. It's like someone in their first year at college beating themselves up because they are not a senior yet!
Hang on, you have a lot of people pulling for you. Good luck,
Shar
> I had a step back last night - I went home, again without buying any alcohol to take home with me. But later in the evening, my husband produced a bottle of brandy, which he proceeded to open in front of me, and offered me some. I couldn't resist - I had some. Not much. But I still had some. I feel really bad about it today... such a failure, I am.
Posted by allisonm on August 16, 2000, at 17:05:05
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol , posted by Lisa Simpson on August 16, 2000, at 10:35:52
Lisa,
You are not a failure. It takes many tries to stop. Please don't be so hard on yourself. It doesn't do you any good.
I understand your need not to tell your husband, but he should be in this fight with you. He should know that you're trying to stop. He should be helping you to stay sober. That means doing things with you that do not include alcohol. You will need his support in all of this. My mother had a sweetheart for a time who considered her alcoholism her problem. He continued to drink around her. He thought it was unnecessary to go to meetings with her, or even to the family week at the rehab center, which teaches family members about alcohol addiction and how to help yourself and your alcohol-addicted loved one.
I hope you will reconsider. Can't he understand how important this is to you? Can't he respect you enough not to go around talking about this as you wish? Without his direct support, you are greatly increasing your chances for failure, IMHO.
Best wishes,
allison
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