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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Nise on July 10, 2000, at 6:16:05
I am an independent onlooker to a failing 7 year old marriage. 8 months ago the first baby was born to this couple after many years of trying. The husband had wanted a child for many years and was overjoyed by the new arrival. There were two very successful individuals with a new home and now a new baby.
The husband, a month or so later, began to feel stressed at work and tired in the mornings. 4 months after the birth of his child he was prescribed prozac (a dose of 20mgs a day).
A few weeks later he started to behave strangely, started drinking more, stayed for hours on the internet, or watching TV without communicating, said he had strange dreams. Then he invited a girl from his office back to the couples home for dinner with other friends, he stayed up all night drinking with her, until 5 or 6 in the morning, his wife in bed with the baby. He missed work and didn't take his child to be minded. He called in sick to work and slept, leaving the 5 month old baby by itslef in the chair where the mother had laeft it in the morning. Further things he started spening money on extravagant things that he could not afford (as they had just bought a house and he had subsribed do a PHD 6 months previously). He stopped communicating, continiued to show no regard or reponsibility for his child or his wife.
This is when the wife asked him to return to the doctor, and ask if prozac has any side affects. He returned and the doctor told him that prozac was not the cause of these problems. But some weeks later(after 4 months of prozac)realising that prozac was not doing waht he wanted it to do, he quit cold turkey.
Then he started acting suspiciouly erasing numbers called from his phone, this is when the wife started suspecting something was up. A man that never ventured from home had found work to do all over the country staying away for days only calling once every 2 days. Still not communicating, the wife discovered through other channels that her husband is having an affair. She confronts him and tells him to think about it. This is a man with a new born baby, that has loved his wife, and wanted a baby for years. He returns to her and says that he is leaving. This is approxiamtely 5 weeks since quiting prozac.
I have read alot of peoples experinces wirh prozac, and I suggest that prozac is avery dangerous drug and for those in relationships/ marriages it should be avoided or prescribed with caution only after indpeth analysis of the condition and the underlying problems realting to the condition. I think it is a human disgrace that doctors can get away with this.
Any comments suggestions?
Posted by Cindy W on July 10, 2000, at 9:01:19
In reply to Prozac destroying lives, posted by Nise on July 10, 2000, at 6:16:05
> I am an independent onlooker to a failing 7 year old marriage. 8 months ago the first baby was born to this couple after many years of trying. The husband had wanted a child for many years and was overjoyed by the new arrival. There were two very successful individuals with a new home and now a new baby.
> The husband, a month or so later, began to feel stressed at work and tired in the mornings. 4 months after the birth of his child he was prescribed prozac (a dose of 20mgs a day).
> A few weeks later he started to behave strangely, started drinking more, stayed for hours on the internet, or watching TV without communicating, said he had strange dreams. Then he invited a girl from his office back to the couples home for dinner with other friends, he stayed up all night drinking with her, until 5 or 6 in the morning, his wife in bed with the baby. He missed work and didn't take his child to be minded. He called in sick to work and slept, leaving the 5 month old baby by itslef in the chair where the mother had laeft it in the morning. Further things he started spening money on extravagant things that he could not afford (as they had just bought a house and he had subsribed do a PHD 6 months previously). He stopped communicating, continiued to show no regard or reponsibility for his child or his wife.
> This is when the wife asked him to return to the doctor, and ask if prozac has any side affects. He returned and the doctor told him that prozac was not the cause of these problems. But some weeks later(after 4 months of prozac)realising that prozac was not doing waht he wanted it to do, he quit cold turkey.
> Then he started acting suspiciouly erasing numbers called from his phone, this is when the wife started suspecting something was up. A man that never ventured from home had found work to do all over the country staying away for days only calling once every 2 days. Still not communicating, the wife discovered through other channels that her husband is having an affair. She confronts him and tells him to think about it. This is a man with a new born baby, that has loved his wife, and wanted a baby for years. He returns to her and says that he is leaving. This is approxiamtely 5 weeks since quiting prozac.
> I have read alot of peoples experinces wirh prozac, and I suggest that prozac is avery dangerous drug and for those in relationships/ marriages it should be avoided or prescribed with caution only after indpeth analysis of the condition and the underlying problems realting to the condition. I think it is a human disgrace that doctors can get away with this.
> Any comments suggestions?
Nise, I'm sorry to hear what happened in that situation. But I'm not sure if it was because of the Prozac. From what I've read, some men have difficulty after the birth of a child accepting the increased responsibility or whatever, and flake out. I took Prozac for over l0 years and didn't really change much at all. People react differently to various medications.
Posted by stjames on July 10, 2000, at 18:00:35
In reply to Re: Prozac destroying lives, posted by Cindy W on July 10, 2000, at 9:01:19
> > Any comments suggestions?
> Nise, I'm sorry to hear what happened in that situation. But I'm not sure if it was because of the Prozac. From what I've read, some men have difficulty after the birth of a child accepting the increased responsibility or whatever, and flake out. I took Prozac for over l0 years and didn't really change much at all. People react differently to various medications.James here....
I agree that the above is a very good posibility.
the realitiy that bady makes 3 does cause some men to flake. Thearpy would be indicated. The other possibility is he is bi polar and the Prozac started a manic phase, as these are some of the behaviors you see in manic phase. Is this person seeing a pdoc or regular doc ?james
Posted by kazoo on July 10, 2000, at 22:51:37
In reply to Prozac destroying lives, posted by Nise on July 10, 2000, at 6:16:05
> Any comments suggestions?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes.
Do you think that four months of 2 a.m. feedings had something to do with it?
kazoo("Mr. Wesbecker, I presume?")
Posted by Adam on July 10, 2000, at 22:56:07
In reply to Prozac destroying lives, posted by Nise on July 10, 2000, at 6:16:05
Nise,
This is one individual's possible reaction to taking Prozac. I have heard it mentioned occasionally that Prozac may have a disinhibiting effect on some people, such that qualities not readily apparent before the drug's anti-anxiety and anti-obsessional effects kick in become more pronounced. The theory, if I understood it correctly, is that Prozac does not change personalities so much as bring out of latency aspects of a personality masked by inhibitions. Wheather or not these inhibitions are appropriate, I don't know.
I find it doubtful that your friend's husband was suddenly transformed from a model husband and father to the unreliable and self-destructive person you describe. If Prozac has anything to do with this (which is far from established, in my mind), it has been to reveal the nature of a person perhaps now blithley unconcerned with the consequences of his actions, where before he lived in restrictive fear of his impusulses. Perhaps if your friend delved deeper, she might find evidence of trouble stretching further into the past than the initiation of Prozac therapy. Just more well hidden.
Even in the worst case, where Prozac somehow changed an honest, loving husband into an oversexed lout and a spendthrift, this is far from the normal reaction to Prozac, which (on top of some common side-effects like insomnia and sexual dysfunction) is either a beneficial alleviation of depressive symptoms, or a lack of therapeutic response. There are a small minority who may react (sometimes very) adversely to Prozac and other SSRIs, such as those with a bipolar disorder, as stjames mentioned. It's hard to tell if he is now in the midst of a manic episode. Things don't seem that severe (I've seen SSRI-induced mania). It's hard to imagine someone suddenly displaying such complex dysfunctionality and deciet just because a drug changed their mood or releived their anxiety. Rather, I would imagine trouble was there all along.
> I am an independent onlooker to a failing 7 year old marriage. 8 months ago the first baby was born to this couple after many years of trying. The husband had wanted a child for many years and was overjoyed by the new arrival. There were two very successful individuals with a new home and now a new baby.
> The husband, a month or so later, began to feel stressed at work and tired in the mornings. 4 months after the birth of his child he was prescribed prozac (a dose of 20mgs a day).
> A few weeks later he started to behave strangely, started drinking more, stayed for hours on the internet, or watching TV without communicating, said he had strange dreams. Then he invited a girl from his office back to the couples home for dinner with other friends, he stayed up all night drinking with her, until 5 or 6 in the morning, his wife in bed with the baby. He missed work and didn't take his child to be minded. He called in sick to work and slept, leaving the 5 month old baby by itslef in the chair where the mother had laeft it in the morning. Further things he started spening money on extravagant things that he could not afford (as they had just bought a house and he had subsribed do a PHD 6 months previously). He stopped communicating, continiued to show no regard or reponsibility for his child or his wife.
> This is when the wife asked him to return to the doctor, and ask if prozac has any side affects. He returned and the doctor told him that prozac was not the cause of these problems. But some weeks later(after 4 months of prozac)realising that prozac was not doing waht he wanted it to do, he quit cold turkey.
> Then he started acting suspiciouly erasing numbers called from his phone, this is when the wife started suspecting something was up. A man that never ventured from home had found work to do all over the country staying away for days only calling once every 2 days. Still not communicating, the wife discovered through other channels that her husband is having an affair. She confronts him and tells him to think about it. This is a man with a new born baby, that has loved his wife, and wanted a baby for years. He returns to her and says that he is leaving. This is approxiamtely 5 weeks since quiting prozac.
> I have read alot of peoples experinces wirh prozac, and I suggest that prozac is avery dangerous drug and for those in relationships/ marriages it should be avoided or prescribed with caution only after indpeth analysis of the condition and the underlying problems realting to the condition. I think it is a human disgrace that doctors can get away with this.
> Any comments suggestions?
Posted by Nise on July 11, 2000, at 5:03:35
In reply to Re: Prozac destroying lives » Nise, posted by Adam on July 10, 2000, at 22:56:07
I agree that in a minority of cases PROZAC has caused negative reactions . I agree also that it has a disinhibiting effect on many, but so does alcohol and other illegal substances. (so why not try a daily dosage of alcohol, at least there are years of study into the subject of an alcoholic... but is there a cure???) This man was already confident and outgoing. I agree that in the case of an introvert disbaled by shyness that PROZAC may be a solution... but who knows clearly what the effects are?
I am not saying that he was the model husband, but a home-bird and settled person. AS for a father, he never got the chance.
What I am suggesting is more caution in the prescription of such drugs, which to him were prescribed by a G.P.. Indepth analysis of person/ home life. He complained of being tired in the mornings and being stressed at work ..(yes a new baby, new house, new lifestyle). I think he was looking for a course of vitamins.
thank you for your inputs.. but maybe I am looking in the wrong place.
Nise.> Nise,
>
> This is one individual's possible reaction to taking Prozac. I have heard it mentioned occasionally that Prozac may have a disinhibiting effect on some people, such that qualities not readily apparent before the drug's anti-anxiety and anti-obsessional effects kick in become more pronounced. The theory, if I understood it correctly, is that Prozac does not change personalities so much as bring out of latency aspects of a personality masked by inhibitions. Wheather or not these inhibitions are appropriate, I don't know.
>
> I find it doubtful that your friend's husband was suddenly transformed from a model husband and father to the unreliable and self-destructive person you describe. If Prozac has anything to do with this (which is far from established, in my mind), it has been to reveal the nature of a person perhaps now blithley unconcerned with the consequences of his actions, where before he lived in restrictive fear of his impusulses. Perhaps if your friend delved deeper, she might find evidence of trouble stretching further into the past than the initiation of Prozac therapy. Just more well hidden.
>
> Even in the worst case, where Prozac somehow changed an honest, loving husband into an oversexed lout and a spendthrift, this is far from the normal reaction to Prozac, which (on top of some common side-effects like insomnia and sexual dysfunction) is either a beneficial alleviation of depressive symptoms, or a lack of therapeutic response. There are a small minority who may react (sometimes very) adversely to Prozac and other SSRIs, such as those with a bipolar disorder, as stjames mentioned. It's hard to tell if he is now in the midst of a manic episode. Things don't seem that severe (I've seen SSRI-induced mania). It's hard to imagine someone suddenly displaying such complex dysfunctionality and deciet just because a drug changed their mood or releived their anxiety. Rather, I would imagine trouble was there all along.
>
> > I am an independent onlooker to a failing 7 year old marriage. 8 months ago the first baby was born to this couple after many years of trying. The husband had wanted a child for many years and was overjoyed by the new arrival. There were two very successful individuals with a new home and now a new baby.
> > The husband, a month or so later, began to feel stressed at work and tired in the mornings. 4 months after the birth of his child he was prescribed prozac (a dose of 20mgs a day).
> > A few weeks later he started to behave strangely, started drinking more, stayed for hours on the internet, or watching TV without communicating, said he had strange dreams. Then he invited a girl from his office back to the couples home for dinner with other friends, he stayed up all night drinking with her, until 5 or 6 in the morning, his wife in bed with the baby. He missed work and didn't take his child to be minded. He called in sick to work and slept, leaving the 5 month old baby by itslef in the chair where the mother had laeft it in the morning. Further things he started spening money on extravagant things that he could not afford (as they had just bought a house and he had subsribed do a PHD 6 months previously). He stopped communicating, continiued to show no regard or reponsibility for his child or his wife.
> > This is when the wife asked him to return to the doctor, and ask if prozac has any side affects. He returned and the doctor told him that prozac was not the cause of these problems. But some weeks later(after 4 months of prozac)realising that prozac was not doing waht he wanted it to do, he quit cold turkey.
> > Then he started acting suspiciouly erasing numbers called from his phone, this is when the wife started suspecting something was up. A man that never ventured from home had found work to do all over the country staying away for days only calling once every 2 days. Still not communicating, the wife discovered through other channels that her husband is having an affair. She confronts him and tells him to think about it. This is a man with a new born baby, that has loved his wife, and wanted a baby for years. He returns to her and says that he is leaving. This is approxiamtely 5 weeks since quiting prozac.
> > I have read alot of peoples experinces wirh prozac, and I suggest that prozac is avery dangerous drug and for those in relationships/ marriages it should be avoided or prescribed with caution only after indpeth analysis of the condition and the underlying problems realting to the condition. I think it is a human disgrace that doctors can get away with this.
> > Any comments suggestions?
Posted by danf on July 11, 2000, at 5:30:08
In reply to Re: Prozac destroying lives » Nise, posted by Adam on July 10, 2000, at 22:56:07
Nise,
Can't really figure out what you are looking for. Prozac & similar meds have helped many of us here regain our lives.
He may have had a manic episode. That is certainly what it sounds like. It has been debated for sometime whether Prozac induces mania or uncovers it. I expect as time goes by, this question will be answered about your friends husband.
The situation is tragic. Unfortunately it happens every day with no prozac use.
Posted by Nise on July 11, 2000, at 6:09:28
In reply to Re: Prozac destroying lives, posted by danf on July 11, 2000, at 5:30:08
I know that from what I have read that prozac has helped many people, and I am happy that many of you people have found perhaps the solution to a lifetime of crisis.
Maybe I don't know what I am looking for either. Maybe someone to say that it is possibly an effect of the Prozac, rather than hard luck, that's life, that is a normal man turned a different person by his own choice.
Nise.
> Nise,
>
> Can't really figure out what you are looking for. Prozac & similar meds have helped many of us here regain our lives.
>
> He may have had a manic episode. That is certainly what it sounds like. It has been debated for sometime whether Prozac induces mania or uncovers it. I expect as time goes by, this question will be answered about your friends husband.
>
> The situation is tragic. Unfortunately it happens every day with no prozac use.
Posted by danf on July 11, 2000, at 6:39:49
In reply to Re: Prozac destroying lives, posted by Nise on July 11, 2000, at 6:09:28
Nise,
I see that there is much that you do not understand. Some people here have had a lifetime of problems. For others, like me it is a recent thing that goes back a couple of years. Either way the meds have given us a life back. Something we could not do on our own.
_________________________________________________________________
When people have manic episodes, it is not by their own choice in general. Mania ( bipolar disorder ) is not something that one can control by being a good person. Being a bad person does not give you mania either. It is a metabolic disorder of brain chemistry.
Sometimes they are drug induced & sometimes spontaneous. People do show mania on prozac, however it usually stops when the prozac is stopped. People also often present with a first episode at a time of major life stress.
With manic episodes, people have poor judgment & do stupid things. They do not listen to reason. If not appropriately treated they often destroy their social /personal lives.
As I said, time will tell what is going on with the guy.
Posted by danf on July 11, 2000, at 6:47:15
In reply to Re: Prozac destroying lives, posted by Nise on July 11, 2000, at 6:09:28
PS: Nise
I have seen a number of people that said SSRI meds damaged their lives.
For most if not all of these folks, what happened was a progression of the disorder. Sometimes the meds work well. sometimes they work well for a while & then the disorder progresses. Sometimes they don't work.
We all often want to find something or someone to blame for bad things happening. Many times there is no blame.
Posted by Oddzilla on July 11, 2000, at 10:03:27
In reply to Re: Prozac destroying lives, posted by Nise on July 11, 2000, at 6:09:28
>Hi Nise It is possible. I don't know how likely it is but it is possible. I'm not anti-medicine but I had a negative life altering experience of a different sort on Prozac. Here is a link to a Prozac Survivors site which has a lot of information.
http://www.pssg.org/pssg/reactions.htm
Among the reported "side effects" on this site wereUnconcerned about Consequences of One's Actions
Out of Control Behavior
Altered Personality
Sounds a little familiar doesn't it?
Maybe you can find some help there. It takes a braver person than I am at the moment to debate this issue with the Babbling crowd. You sound like a very thoughtful person. I appreciate your posting here.Best Wishes Odd(I'm not a Scientologist)zilla
I know that from what I have read that prozhas helped many people, and I am happy that many of you people have found perhaps the solution to a lifetime of crisis.
> Maybe I don't know what I am looking for either. Maybe someone to say that it is possibly an effect of the Prozac, rather than hard luck, that's life, that is a normal man turned a different person by his own choice.
> Nise.
>
>
> > Nise,
> >
> > Can't really figure out what you are looking for. Prozac & similar meds have helped many of us here regain our lives.
> >
> > He may have had a manic episode. That is certainly what it sounds like. It has been debated for sometime whether Prozac induces mania or uncovers it. I expect as time goes by, this question will be answered about your friends husband.
> >
> > The situation is tragic. Unfortunately it happens every day with no prozac use.
Posted by MisterB on July 11, 2000, at 19:03:25
In reply to Yes It IS Possible » Nise, posted by Oddzilla on July 11, 2000, at 10:03:27
There are apparently two issues in this discussion:
What role did Prozac play in the lives of the people in this example, and
Is Prozac appropriately adminsisters in some, most or all cases?There is apparently a third question though, regarding how much we can or should concern ourselves with either of the other two questions.
Posts in this threat identify other likely causes for the disruption in the man's life.
Posts also suggest evidence, whether 10 percent or 90 percent conclusive, that SSRIs can sometimes compound, complicate or even cause such disruptions.
With these uncertainties in mind, I suggest that at times, people are handed a bottle of pills when what they need is social support.
I am not certain psychological counseling comprises the full range of social support some people might need. Parenting training and appropriate day care might help in some situations, though not neccessarily in this one. Personal mentors or role models have traditionally provided some of this kind of training. Counseling might...and I do mean might... help identify qualified mentors, and short of that, serve as a surrogate for the kind of mentoring and guidence found in strong communities. We have apparently lost the benefit of some of these kinds of social relationships in favor of our highly mobile, modularized society.
SSRI's are often administered by family physicians or by mental health clinics with little oversight or follow-up, and sometimes with no evident recognition of possible side effects that might result either from the drug itself, or from the adminsitration of a drug in lieu of more personal care. This is an apparent shortcoming of the medical establishment. Fortunately, many people who contribute to this site seem to have survived that shortcoming and benefited from the help of ppharmacology.
The third question is probably the hardest to answer.
Am I my brothers keeper (or a babysitter for his neglected children, and a personal counselor when he starts to trash his marriage?)
For certain, in earlier times there were other, likely worse problems. People killed unwanted children, or abused them for years, with the approval of their community. Does that worse condition from a different time and place excuse us from involving ourselves in the lives of those around us? Are we to personally get involved in the private trauma of our peers, family members and neighbors, or is that something we should leave up to health-care and social-service professionals? Do we want to pay for the kind of social support some people apparently need when we are billed for our own health care?
Just something to ponder...
Posted by SLS on July 11, 2000, at 22:56:07
In reply to Prozac destroying lives, posted by Nise on July 10, 2000, at 6:16:05
Hi Nise.
I am sorry that this has happened to your friends.
I guess you are trying to figure out exactly what has happened. It doesn't look as though things are going to lend themselves to a simple explanation.
> What I am suggesting is more caution in the prescription of such drugs, which to him were prescribed by a G.P..
I strongly agree. Unfortunately, I think that sometimes an individual will enter the office of a G.P. asking for a Band-Aid and without showing much blood. Antidepressants (or any other drug) should not be handed out indiscriminately and without close supervision.
You have already received some varying educated guesses by people here in an attempt to help you understand what has happened, and perhaps use this understanding to help. I am not afraid to express an opinion that there are many drugs that can affect the way people think, feel, and behave in ways that are deleterious. In addition to Prozac, these would include drugs as diverse as cortisone, thyroid, l-dopa, and estrogen. Perhaps such was the case here, but it doesn't appear to me that this would explain everything. I tend to agree with Adam in that there was probably something there psychologically to begin with, and that he may have had this "under control" until a change in his life unleashed it. Prozac may or may not have contributed to this change.
I am just trying to offer another guess/explanation only because you asked for some. I would not offer an opinion. I am not acting to take an adversarial position regarding the culpability of Prozac. However, I focused a bit on the following passage:
> The husband, a month or so later, began to feel stressed at work and tired in the mornings. 4 months after the birth of his child he was prescribed prozac (a dose of 20mgs a day).
Question: What was this stress? I think this might be a good starting place to search for answers.
I know you are angry. I hope you can all find peace.
- Scott
Posted by paul on July 13, 2000, at 23:10:03
In reply to Re: Prozac destroying lives, posted by Cindy W on July 10, 2000, at 9:01:19
i can't help but believe that there are a LOT of pieces of this story missing. seems to me the biggest question is whether or not any or all of this would/could have happenned w/ or w/o the drug. yes, there have been serious wierdnesses reported from people on prozac. so have there been for just about any other a/d you'd care to mention. one thing that will ALWAYS amaze me is the degree to which people's responses to these drugs differ. day and night don't even BEGIN to cover the range. without A LOT more information, i don't believe any real conclusions can be made on this story's information alone.
p(c(l))
Posted by dove on July 15, 2000, at 10:39:15
In reply to Re: Prozac destroying lives, posted by paul on July 13, 2000, at 23:10:03
When I read the first message under this thread, my gut reaction was Mania. With some history taking, looking for some common familial behavior, common reactions to stress, there might be some clues as to manic-depression (bipolar) or just plain off-the-wall behavior.
Manic depression can be very difficult to discover, especially if the person's normal every-day behavior is closer to mild mania and mild depressive symptoms. The antidepressant may have triggered the disorder lying in wait, or it could have caused it, or this could all be completely unrelated.
My daughter, who had been without manic symptoms since she was born, went 100% manic after two doses of Paxil, so I do know it can happen. She was extremely reckless, and put her life in danger more than once during that time period. She has not seen a return of these symptoms, but it took at least 2 months for the behavior to abate.
Hope this situation gets better soon, and sorry I don't have much to offer.
dove
This is the end of the thread.
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