![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 41. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kerry B on July 4, 2000, at 22:29:24
Hi All,
I am having great difficulty finding your posts due to the lack of concentration and the tiredness I am experiencing, so I thought this might help me keep in contact with you as I'm sure I don't read alot of them that I get. Don't know how I'm typing this in, keep making mistakes and having to go back and fix them up, this zyprexa makes you feel like a zombie but I am trying to fight it off by trying to keep busy - HARD!!
Phoned my health team worker this-morning and he was so supportive. He told me that I am not alone anymore because I have him to help me. He is the first person that I have been able to talk to in the past month. I have been keeping it all to myself as nobody understood or could feel just what I was going through, except you guys and I want to say thanks to all of you for being there and being my only outlet and support team!!!!!!!
Well have to go now as it's lunch time, I can't each much as I think Cam said zyprexa causes weight gain and I can't have that. That must be another side effect from it, don't know..............Kerry
Posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 6:22:31
In reply to kerry B's posts here please because..............., posted by kerry B on July 4, 2000, at 22:29:24
Hey, Kerry!
I am so glad you are connected with this clinic. It sounds like you have a reasonable treatment plan in place.
As for the weight gain: I know that with lithium, I was constantly thirsty, and went for the sweet drinks a lot, which can put on a lot of weight. Perhaps you can be sure to drink water and cut out any sugary drinks, to avoid weight gain with the lithium-zyprexa combo. I know it is the zyprexa you are worreid about, not the lithium, but if you do drink sugary drinks, it is a relatively easy way to cut some unneeded calories out.
In any event, Your emotional stability seems way more of a priority than the weight right now.
Good luck.
Posted by danf on July 5, 2000, at 10:37:07
In reply to Re: kerry B's posts here please because..............., posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 6:22:31
Hello Kerry,
glad things are looking up. new meds always take a while to work, so hang in there.
Me & meds ? My mum was schizophrenic so I learned a bit about anti psychotics , EPS & such yrs ago.
Also have some background in pharmacology. Did not dig much into ADs until fairly recently because of my own problem. So I know bits & pieces here & there.
Have lived thru the misery of panic & depression & so know about that from the inside.
we all want to get better.
best wishes & prayers.
Posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 20:06:55
In reply to kerry B's posts here please because..............., posted by kerry B on July 4, 2000, at 22:29:24
Hi Kerry, So glad that the first person you brought yourself to talk to was so supportive! Good work!! Thanks for the update. Try to do something special for yourself. Maybe a bubble bath or listen to some music you like, or eat a food you like, or something. You deserve good things to happen to you. I'm thinkin' of you.
Kath
> Hi All,
> I am having great difficulty finding your posts due to the lack of concentration and the tiredness I am experiencing, so I thought this might help me keep in contact with you as I'm sure I don't read alot of them that I get. Don't know how I'm typing this in, keep making mistakes and having to go back and fix them up, this zyprexa makes you feel like a zombie but I am trying to fight it off by trying to keep busy - HARD!!
> Phoned my health team worker this-morning and he was so supportive. He told me that I am not alone anymore because I have him to help me. He is the first person that I have been able to talk to in the past month. I have been keeping it all to myself as nobody understood or could feel just what I was going through, except you guys and I want to say thanks to all of you for being there and being my only outlet and support team!!!!!!!
> Well have to go now as it's lunch time, I can't each much as I think Cam said zyprexa causes weight gain and I can't have that. That must be another side effect from it, don't know..............
>
> Kerry
Posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 0:26:37
In reply to Re: kerry B's posts here please because..............., posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 6:22:31
> Hey, Kerry!
>
> I am so glad you are connected with this clinic. It sounds like you have a reasonable treatment plan in place.
>
> As for the weight gain: I know that with lithium, I was constantly thirsty, and went for the sweet drinks a lot, which can put on a lot of weight. Perhaps you can be sure to drink water and cut out any sugary drinks, to avoid weight gain with the lithium-zyprexa combo. I know it is the zyprexa you are worreid about, not the lithium, but if you do drink sugary drinks, it is a relatively easy way to cut some unneeded calories out.
>
> In any event, Your emotional stability seems way more of a priority than the weight right now.
>
> Good luck.
Hi noa,
Thanks for your post!! These posts mean so much to me, I really look forward to them. I am sarting to feel like I've known you all for ages!!!!
Yes noa, I do have a lot of trauma behind me, it's as if every year of my life had trauma in it even up till now. It's amazing just how much we keep locked away, but as they tell me, it has to come out sometime and in many different ways, so I found out!!!
It will be good to go to this clinic if they are offering me some peace of mind in the future, it is something to look forward to, a goal to aim for. It will probably be a hard road to travel down but what the heck, things have been tougher!!
The lithium makes me thirsty too. Sometimes I just can't quench it. I do drink 2-3 litres of water most days but they told me not to as it can flush the lithium out of your system but it hasn't yet, my levels are always in range. Do you have to have level tests done regularly?
As for the weight gain, since I started on stelazine I began having 3 meals a day instead of 1 so now I have to stop that and just have the 1 meal as I slam on the weight very easily so I have to be careful! Oh it's just great being a woman!!!! yeah right!!!
I am going to have a quiet week next week. My mum-in-law is having my kids for the entire week so I can try and sort myself out. I will miss them greatly but I think it will give them a break also from what's been going on arourd here.
Oh well, thanks again. I will keep you posted on the clinic adventure!!!!! Going now!!!!Kerry
Posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 0:45:49
In reply to Glad tings are going better, Kerry, posted by danf on July 5, 2000, at 10:37:07
> Hello Kerry,
>
> glad things are looking up. new meds always take a while to work, so hang in there.
>
> Me & meds ? My mum was schizophrenic so I learned a bit about anti psychotics , EPS & such yrs ago.
>
> Also have some background in pharmacology. Did not dig much into ADs until fairly recently because of my own problem. So I know bits & pieces here & there.
>
> Have lived thru the misery of panic & depression & so know about that from the inside.
>
> we all want to get better.
>
> best wishes & prayers.
Hi there Dan!
Yes things are looking up in respect to the clinic and the team worker who has been assigned to me. The clinic is for post traumatic shock which thinking back, I have had an waful lot happen in the past, back to childhood, so next Friday I will begin my new adventure there. I guess I will have weekly appointments to attend but that's not so bad, it's not that far away either and easy for me to get to by public transport when the need arises. I need a car of my own. Maybe I'll win the sweepstakes or something!!!!
Sorry to hear your mother was schizophrenic. Did you find it hard as a child to live like that, I mean, was it hard at times? Sorry to ask, but I just wonder what it's like for my kids. They are 10 & 8 (the ones that live with me). I know it has had some effect on my 10 yr old and sometimes I wish I could see out of his eyes and interpret how he sees things with me the way I am.
So you did a course on pharmacology or studied it yourself?
I thought you were all doctors the way you knew all that stuff, I was thinking "WOW" but I do still think that anyway.
Panic and depression is awful. For me, one minute I'm one way the next I'm the other and I don't know where it comes from. I wake each mornign wondering what it's going to be like, then I think I get worked up with the anticipation of it. Not nice at all!!!!
I was told by my Tworker that people that suffer with post traumatic shock are prescribed Zyprexa so I'm on the right med at last!!!
What meds do you take?
Well better go and do some chores (yuk) and I will keep you posted on all the latest. You to me tooo O.K
Thanks again!!!!!!kerry
Posted by danf on July 6, 2000, at 6:27:44
In reply to Re: Glad tings are going better, Kerry » danf, posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 0:45:49
Hey Kerry,
me mum first decompensated when I was about 10. It was strange. I don't thing there is any way for kids that age to understand.
It is hard to say what the effect is. Have actually explored that quite a bit in regressive therapy & come to the conclusion that it is mainly a matter of her being gone from time to time in hospital. Perhaps that is where part of my anxiety comes from. Probably a seperation /abandonment neurosis.
Guess, I am lucky that my moods do not change that quickly. The panics are very infrequent & well controlled by the meds. Base anxiety is a bitch tho. I get the shakes & can't do much, write or hold a screwdriver. The beta blockers have helped that a lot. Much less tremor.
Guess we all must be different. My pdoc finds me strange. No episodic panic but shakes /tremor where I can hardly write, etc.
Oh well ? things are better & looking up.
Dx ? Anxiety, panic & depression.
Meds ? celexa, pindolol, & buspar ( just started buspar ) The celexa has worked pretty well. Was on zoloft last year & it did not work as well.
Courses ? several in pharmacology & neurophysiology, yrs ago.
_______________________________________________________________
You sound like it is a better day. Am glad for you.
One day at the time.
Posted by noa on July 6, 2000, at 8:24:25
In reply to Re: kerry B's posts here please because............... » noa, posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 0:26:37
Kerry,
I don't take lithium anymore, but when I did, I read up as much as I could. What I learned was that you should drink plenty of water because the lithium actually makes you pee a lot, so you need to be sure not to get dehydrated. But I wouldn't overdo it. Let's see, how much is 2-3 liters in my language? a liter is what, about 4.2 cups, so 2 liters sounds like it is in the neighborhood of what seems to be is generally recommended for water intake per day. Three liters sounds like a bit much. But I am sure I have had that much in a day. I probably drink at least 2 liters a day even not being on lithium. I am not sure--I'll start keeping better track of water intake. All I know is I seem to need to buy a gallon of bottled water at least every 2 days, if not more frequently. Water, of course, is better than soft drinks, because you don't want to add all that sugar. Also, don't scrimp on salt (don't add more, but don't go on a salt free diet) because apparently if you don't have enough salt, the lithium takes its place in your body's cells, and that can cause a buildup of lithium in your body, which of course, is not healthy and can become dangerous if it gets high.
Good luck.
Posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 8:59:01
In reply to kerry B's posts here please because..............., posted by kerry B on July 4, 2000, at 22:29:24
Hi Kerry - I'm so glad your mum-in-law could take your kids for a bit. I hope you can do something "pampering" for yourself each & every day. It can be simple - perhaps a bubble-bath; renting a movie you've always wanted to see but haven't had time; pick a wild-flower & put it in a small vase or buy a flower or two from a florist for yourself; take out some music cassettes or CD's from the library; sit with your feet up & enjoy a book you like; sit in a room lighted by a few candles with some relaxing music & sip tea or herb tea...something to make you feel special & "worth it" because you are!!
My situation is in a post from yesterday. Our son didn't contact us yesterday, but picked up his knapsack & sleeping bag from the back patio. In the night when I got up I saw that he was sleeping in his s-bag on the lounge out there. He had gone when we got up this morning. I really hope he will contact some of the resources that I wrote on the list I left for him. I think it's a help for me just to know that people know what's up for me right now.
I'll be thinking of you. Kath
Posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 16:55:05
In reply to Re: Better tings » kerry B, posted by danf on July 6, 2000, at 6:27:44
> Hey Kerry,
>
> me mum first decompensated when I was about 10. It was strange. I don't thing there is any way for kids that age to understand.
>
> It is hard to say what the effect is. Have actually explored that quite a bit in regressive therapy & come to the conclusion that it is mainly a matter of her being gone from time to time in hospital. Perhaps that is where part of my anxiety comes from. Probably a seperation /abandonment neurosis.
>
> Guess, I am lucky that my moods do not change that quickly. The panics are very infrequent & well controlled by the meds. Base anxiety is a bitch tho. I get the shakes & can't do much, write or hold a screwdriver. The beta blockers have helped that a lot. Much less tremor.
>
> Guess we all must be different. My pdoc finds me strange. No episodic panic but shakes /tremor where I can hardly write, etc.
>
> Oh well ? things are better & looking up.
>
> Dx ? Anxiety, panic & depression.
>
> Meds ? celexa, pindolol, & buspar ( just started buspar ) The celexa has worked pretty well. Was on zoloft last year & it did not work as well.
>
> Courses ? several in pharmacology & neurophysiology, yrs ago.
>
> _______________________________________________________________
>
> You sound like it is a better day. Am glad for you.
>
> One day at the time.
Hi Dan,
Thanks for sharing that with me! I am actually up early this-morning so as I can do this in peace. Feel a bit groggy though, but that will pass soon.
When I first became ill and kept going to hospital my son was 5. It was confusing for him as one morning, I was there but when he'd get home from school I was gone - to hospital.
From then on, he began putting on weight so now he is quite large for his age and he has a terrible time at school about it, kids picking on him so now he has developed an anger disorder and I blame myself for that.
He knows I am unwell again and I sit him down and explain it as best I can in the hope that he won't take it so hard but he is forever asking me if I will go to hospital again and I say NO!
I just wondered if I have caused this in him as he is such a sensitive boy. As you think, it could be the seperation neurosis although he came to visit me everyday.
I haven't heard of the meds you are on but they sound like they are helping you and that is great.
I have heard names and tried so many meds in the last five years, I don't know what is what any more!!! I am very interested in learning about them though. All I have is a small book but I think it is out of date now. Every time they'd give me something, I"d go straight to my book and look it up, sad thing was though, if I read it had bad side effects, I'd refuse to take it.
Now I'm being a good girl and not doing that and doing what I'm told, after all, they are the experts. Right? (sometimes I wonder though)!
Thanks again.........Kerry
Posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 17:09:34
In reply to Re: kerry B from Noa, posted by noa on July 6, 2000, at 8:24:25
> Kerry,
>
> I don't take lithium anymore, but when I did, I read up as much as I could. What I learned was that you should drink plenty of water because the lithium actually makes you pee a lot, so you need to be sure not to get dehydrated. But I wouldn't overdo it. Let's see, how much is 2-3 liters in my language? a liter is what, about 4.2 cups, so 2 liters sounds like it is in the neighborhood of what seems to be is generally recommended for water intake per day. Three liters sounds like a bit much. But I am sure I have had that much in a day. I probably drink at least 2 liters a day even not being on lithium. I am not sure--I'll start keeping better track of water intake. All I know is I seem to need to buy a gallon of bottled water at least every 2 days, if not more frequently. Water, of course, is better than soft drinks, because you don't want to add all that sugar. Also, don't scrimp on salt (don't add more, but don't go on a salt free diet) because apparently if you don't have enough salt, the lithium takes its place in your body's cells, and that can cause a buildup of lithium in your body, which of course, is not healthy and can become dangerous if it gets high.
>
> Good luck.
Hi noa,
Just a quick note again. I got another one from you before so now you have 2 to read. The tribe is just beginning to wake up so I'll make it quick.
Breakfast time is bedlam for me around here! Everyone wants somthing different!!
I thought it was strange them telling me not to drink so much water, they'd frown when I told them how much I was having but as I said, my levels were always right so maybe they have it confused. I love my cold water though I can't get enough some times, meaning, I keep a 2 litre bottle in the fridge & when that runs out I have to drink tap water which I don't enjoy.
I love salt too but I don't add it too much unless I'm cooking something that needs a boost, I mailny like the natural salt that certain foods produce themselves.
Anyway, thanks for making me feel better about the water. Sometimes I think our doctors and workers are way behind. You seem to be way ahead of us. Maybe our docs should pay a visit to your education clinics!!!!!
Bye for now............Kerry
Posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 17:35:49
In reply to Kerry B - Thoughts for you/update on me from Kath, posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 8:59:01
> Hi Kerry - I'm so glad your mum-in-law could take your kids for a bit. I hope you can do something "pampering" for yourself each & every day. It can be simple - perhaps a bubble-bath; renting a movie you've always wanted to see but haven't had time; pick a wild-flower & put it in a small vase or buy a flower or two from a florist for yourself; take out some music cassettes or CD's from the library; sit with your feet up & enjoy a book you like; sit in a room lighted by a few candles with some relaxing music & sip tea or herb tea...something to make you feel special & "worth it" because you are!!
>
> My situation is in a post from yesterday. Our son didn't contact us yesterday, but picked up his knapsack & sleeping bag from the back patio. In the night when I got up I saw that he was sleeping in his s-bag on the lounge out there. He had gone when we got up this morning. I really hope he will contact some of the resources that I wrote on the list I left for him. I think it's a help for me just to know that people know what's up for me right now.
>
> I'll be thinking of you. Kath
Hi Kath,
Thanks again for your lovely message. I do plan to do something nice for myself during the week and it works out that I haven't really much housework to do as I have done it bit by bit this week, so the place won't fall apart just in a week. I am so much looking forward to it but I will probably spend all my time on here, knowing me.
I just love to lay in the bath with candles burning, I find that so relaxing and it gives me time to think! I also want to have my hair tidied up, I have neglected it lately, being so pre-occupied with not feeling good, so if I can get over this drowsiness from the meds I'm on'I shall go to the hairdresser and be at the mercy of the scissors!
I'm sorry, I couldn't find your post from yesterday about your situation. I read one about your daughter and it sounded like she is doing well on her meds. Hope so. Does she suffer from depression? It's a horribe thing to go through as I have that part in my illness as well.
Do you know where your son has gone? It is a worry. Does he have depression as well? Sorry for asking, hope you don't mind.
I had my 18 yr old staying with me for 7 months and then one day he said he was going to the city and said he would be home on the Monday as it was a Friday when he left.
Monday came and he never showed up. I was worried and tried to contact him on his mobile but there was never any answer. To cut a long story short, four weeks passed and I made contact with him. He hadn't remembered himself telling me when he would be home. Actually, observing him here, I do believe he has problems but I'm not sure what at this stage.
I have witnessed him shouting at himself and then answering himself and things like that and I asked him one day about it and he had no recollection of it. It worries me but it is out of my hands now as he never came back, he stayed in the city and is still there.
Being a mother is so hard. It is added stress, but believe me, they, the kids, survive but as mothers we worry for them.
I do hope you hear from your son!!!!! He must have somewhere that he is going. Are you able to talk to him about it in a matter of fact way? Maybe that will help you find out what he's doing?
Please try not to worry, you know there is always someone watching over him, just keep that in mind!!!!!
I best go now as everyone is awake and I must get ready to do the shopping.
Take care Kath!!!!!!!!Kerry
Posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 21:07:03
In reply to Re: Kerry B - Thoughts for you Kath, posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 17:35:49
Hi Kerry - Thx for your note. I'll answer through it.
> Hi Kath,
> Thanks again for your lovely message. I do plan to do something nice for myself during the week and it works out that I haven't really much housework to do as I have done it bit by bit this week, so the place won't fall apart just in a week. I am so much looking forward to it but I will probably spend all my time on here, knowing me..............I'm glad you plan to do stuff for yourself. Let me know if you get your hair done. I find I can spend an inordinate amount of time here & I have to watch that it doesn't get out of control. The thing is, there are certain people who I seem to particularly relate to (just like in "in-person" life, I guess) & I care about them & what happens to them, so want to check in!
> I just love to lay in the bath with candles burning, I find that so relaxing and it gives me time to think! I also want to have my hair tidied up, I have neglected it lately, being so pre-occupied with not feeling good, so if I can get over this drowsiness from the meds I'm on'I shall go to the hairdresser and be at the mercy of the scissors!
> I'm sorry, I couldn't find your post from yesterday about your situation...........That post is below this one; it's dated yesterday & is titled something about "nice weekend; yucky homecoming" or something like that.
I read one about your daughter and it sounded like she is doing well on her meds. Hope so. Does she suffer from depression? It's a horribe thing to go through as I have that part in my illness as well.
................She has had depression and panic attacks & social anxiety probably all her life I now think. She has been on Mannerix for about 4 weeks & feels it kicking in now. She does extremely well with it. She has taken it 2 times before & stopped once because she felt "better" & felt she didn't need it. The second time she stopped because she didn't know if the "her on Mannerix" was REALLY her or just a chemically-induced her! She now realizes that depression can cause her to feel a certain way and if she takes the meds for the proper amount of time, it is possible that she might feel better even when she stops taking it.
> Do you know where your son has gone? It is a worry. Does he have depression as well? Sorry for asking, hope you don't mind.
.............I don't mind anybody asking me anything! I would just say if I didn't feel comfortable answering. I'm pretty hard to offend! My son spoke to me on the phone today; actually, he walked into our back yard when I was talking on the phone. He walked past me & put his jacket down. He looked extremely guilty. Phoned me shortly after & said "what's up" or something like that! He admitted to stealing the $160. from my purse. I'd made a list for him of house-finding resources, shelters, help-lines, etc & put a $10 phone card with them. On the phone I suggested he call his worker from his day-treatment/school (which just recently ended). I checked the phone & he'd called from his friend's, 2 doors away. I saw him later, walking down the street. He asked on the phone if he could get the support money that his biological dad sends me & get himself a place for the summer & deduct the $160 from the first payment!!!!!!!
He might be despressed, but marijuana is a depressant anyway, so he's been taking a depressant for well over a year & a half on a pretty-well daily basis! He's been involved with social workers, etc. & has had a psychiatrist test him for depression. They didn't suggest medication. He has certain issues (some with his bio-dad) that he knows are bothering him tremendously & I think he's self-medicating. No displays like your son's.> I had my 18 yr old staying with me for 7 months and then one day he said he was going to the city and said he would be home on the Monday as it was a Friday when he left.
> Monday came and he never showed up. I was worried and tried to contact him on his mobile but there was never any answer. To cut a long story short, four weeks passed and I made contact with him. He hadn't remembered himself telling me when he would be home. Actually, observing him here, I do believe he has problems but I'm not sure what at this stage.
> I have witnessed him shouting at himself and then answering himself and things like that and I asked him one day about it and he had no recollection of it. It worries me but it is out of my hands now as he never came back, he stayed in the city and is still there.
> Being a mother is so hard. It is added stress, but believe me, they, the kids, survive but as mothers we worry for them.
> I do hope you hear from your son!!!!! He must have somewhere that he is going. Are you able to talk to him about it in a matter of fact way? Maybe that will help you find out what he's doing?..............He did phone & we talked calmly, but he has his mind set on getting his own place with the support money so he didn't want to talk of anything else. Since he has addiction problems & hasn't displayed a speck of ability with financial management it would be ludicrous to give him money like that.
> Please try not to worry, you know there is always someone watching over him, just keep that in mind!!!!!
.............That's the think I hang onto. It does help alot.> I best go now as everyone is awake and I must get ready to do the shopping.
> Take care Kath!!!!!!!!
>
> Kerry.......I really appreciate your support.
Thanks & do take care & keep in touch.Kath
Posted by noa on July 7, 2000, at 8:55:42
In reply to Re: To noa from kerry B, posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 17:09:34
Just to be sure, I'd feel more comfortable if some other folks familiar with lithium chimed in here about the water thing. I don't want to steer you wrong. I am not an expert.
Posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 10:32:14
In reply to Re: Kerry's Question about Water Intake--Anyone?, posted by noa on July 7, 2000, at 8:55:42
Kerry & noa,
good day to you guys.
noa, how are you today ? Up , I hope . banish those blues !
Kerry, I must say your recent posts sound so much better. Happy for you.
some things about Lithium.
The most important thing about li & water is to be consistant. Li works in a different way than all other meds. It is physically diluted in the body. It changes membrane potentials of nerves & of all cells.
for it to work the concentration must be in a certain range. The ratios of Li to others lytes like Mg, Na, K, Ca, etc are important in the membrane effect.
Our bodies have a control mechanism for the other 'normal' lytes to keep them in a functional range. Li is not a 'normal' lyte so the body does not know how to control its concentration. It is 'confused' by the body with Na & K to a minor extent.
dehydration will increase side effects & toxicity without any benefits.
A very high water intake can wash out Li + other electrolytes like sodium.
This is a simplified explan but other details don't help much in the practical arena.
Once a stable dose is found, it is best to have all lyte intake & water intake remain about the same. However our bodies do a good job of keeping things status quo, so in practice, it is not as important for most people as I have made it sound.
in practice a liter is about a quart. 3 quarts or liters a day is reasonable.
Posted by kerry B on July 7, 2000, at 18:43:40
In reply to Re: Kerry's Question about Water Intake » noa, posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 10:32:14
> Kerry & noa,
>
> good day to you guys.
>
> noa, how are you today ? Up , I hope . banish those blues !
>
> Kerry, I must say your recent posts sound so much better. Happy for you.
>
> some things about Lithium.
>
> The most important thing about li & water is to be consistant. Li works in a different way than all other meds. It is physically diluted in the body. It changes membrane potentials of nerves & of all cells.
>
> for it to work the concentration must be in a certain range. The ratios of Li to others lytes like Mg, Na, K, Ca, etc are important in the membrane effect.
>
> Our bodies have a control mechanism for the other 'normal' lytes to keep them in a functional range. Li is not a 'normal' lyte so the body does not know how to control its concentration. It is 'confused' by the body with Na & K to a minor extent.
>
> dehydration will increase side effects & toxicity without any benefits.
>
> A very high water intake can wash out Li + other electrolytes like sodium.
>
> This is a simplified explan but other details don't help much in the practical arena.
>
> Once a stable dose is found, it is best to have all lyte intake & water intake remain about the same. However our bodies do a good job of keeping things status quo, so in practice, it is not as important for most people as I have made it sound.
>
> in practice a liter is about a quart. 3 quarts or liters a day is reasonable.
Hi dan & noa,
I might employ the both of you as my health team worker and my doctor. The two of you seem to know so much more than anyone I've come across out here in Oz (not forgetting Cam and the rest!)
I am starting to feel a little better but I am very slowed down (still have the anger and irritability & still can't concentrate to well) but the anger is to a lesser degree and the suicidal thoughts have gone!! Compared to my first posts I guess I do sound better.
I seem to have a bit of a tremor. Is this from the zyprexa/lithium combo?
Well the water intake I am having seems to be ok which is good. Don't know what I would do without water!
Thanks again guys, you are so very helpful. I have learnt alot from you, hope I haven't been a burden on you though!!! I always feel guilty of that!!!!!!!
Better go and face the bedlam of breakfast time, I reckon I should open a cafe considering all the different things I have to get for everyone!!!!!Kerry!
Posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 22:42:49
In reply to Re: Kerry's Question about Water Intake danf noa, posted by kerry B on July 7, 2000, at 18:43:40
kerry, You a burden.. never !
now for tremors !
tremor is usually mediated by the adrenergic system. both zyprexa & lithium can cause this. with zyprexa being the likely culprit ( incidence increases with dose increases). irritability is a manefestation of anxiety & anxiety also drives tremor as I can well attest to. so anxiety may be part of the tremor.
very glad the suicidal thoughts are down. that is a good sign. anger & irritability soon to follow, banished to the outback !
Gettin' on the plane now to come to your grand cafe oppening for breakfast ! Just a joke !
I have always wanted roo bacon & emu eggs for breakfast !
Cheers, Kerry, onward & upward
Posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 1:00:07
In reply to kerry B from Kath » kerry B, posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 21:07:03
> Hi Kerry - Thx for your note. I'll answer through it.
>
> > Hi Kath,
> > Thanks again for your lovely message. I do plan to do something nice for myself during the week and it works out that I haven't really much housework to do as I have done it bit by bit this week, so the place won't fall apart just in a week. I am so much looking forward to it but I will probably spend all my time on here, knowing me.
>
> .............I'm glad you plan to do stuff for yourself. Let me know if you get your hair done. I find I can spend an inordinate amount of time here & I have to watch that it doesn't get out of control. The thing is, there are certain people who I seem to particularly relate to (just like in "in-person" life, I guess) & I care about them & what happens to them, so want to check in!
>
>
> > I just love to lay in the bath with candles burning, I find that so relaxing and it gives me time to think! I also want to have my hair tidied up, I have neglected it lately, being so pre-occupied with not feeling good, so if I can get over this drowsiness from the meds I'm on'I shall go to the hairdresser and be at the mercy of the scissors!
> > I'm sorry, I couldn't find your post from yesterday about your situation.
>
> ..........That post is below this one; it's dated yesterday & is titled something about "nice weekend; yucky homecoming" or something like that.
>
> I read one about your daughter and it sounded like she is doing well on her meds. Hope so. Does she suffer from depression? It's a horribe thing to go through as I have that part in my illness as well.
>
> ................She has had depression and panic attacks & social anxiety probably all her life I now think. She has been on Mannerix for about 4 weeks & feels it kicking in now. She does extremely well with it. She has taken it 2 times before & stopped once because she felt "better" & felt she didn't need it. The second time she stopped because she didn't know if the "her on Mannerix" was REALLY her or just a chemically-induced her! She now realizes that depression can cause her to feel a certain way and if she takes the meds for the proper amount of time, it is possible that she might feel better even when she stops taking it.
>
> > Do you know where your son has gone? It is a worry. Does he have depression as well? Sorry for asking, hope you don't mind.
>
> .............I don't mind anybody asking me anything! I would just say if I didn't feel comfortable answering. I'm pretty hard to offend! My son spoke to me on the phone today; actually, he walked into our back yard when I was talking on the phone. He walked past me & put his jacket down. He looked extremely guilty. Phoned me shortly after & said "what's up" or something like that! He admitted to stealing the $160. from my purse. I'd made a list for him of house-finding resources, shelters, help-lines, etc & put a $10 phone card with them. On the phone I suggested he call his worker from his day-treatment/school (which just recently ended). I checked the phone & he'd called from his friend's, 2 doors away. I saw him later, walking down the street. He asked on the phone if he could get the support money that his biological dad sends me & get himself a place for the summer & deduct the $160 from the first payment!!!!!!!
> He might be despressed, but marijuana is a depressant anyway, so he's been taking a depressant for well over a year & a half on a pretty-well daily basis! He's been involved with social workers, etc. & has had a psychiatrist test him for depression. They didn't suggest medication. He has certain issues (some with his bio-dad) that he knows are bothering him tremendously & I think he's self-medicating. No displays like your son's.
>
> > I had my 18 yr old staying with me for 7 months and then one day he said he was going to the city and said he would be home on the Monday as it was a Friday when he left.
> > Monday came and he never showed up. I was worried and tried to contact him on his mobile but there was never any answer. To cut a long story short, four weeks passed and I made contact with him. He hadn't remembered himself telling me when he would be home. Actually, observing him here, I do believe he has problems but I'm not sure what at this stage.
> > I have witnessed him shouting at himself and then answering himself and things like that and I asked him one day about it and he had no recollection of it. It worries me but it is out of my hands now as he never came back, he stayed in the city and is still there.
> > Being a mother is so hard. It is added stress, but believe me, they, the kids, survive but as mothers we worry for them.
> > I do hope you hear from your son!!!!! He must have somewhere that he is going. Are you able to talk to him about it in a matter of fact way? Maybe that will help you find out what he's doing?
>
> ..............He did phone & we talked calmly, but he has his mind set on getting his own place with the support money so he didn't want to talk of anything else. Since he has addiction problems & hasn't displayed a speck of ability with financial management it would be ludicrous to give him money like that.
>
> > Please try not to worry, you know there is always someone watching over him, just keep that in mind!!!!!
> .............That's the think I hang onto. It does help alot.
>
> > I best go now as everyone is awake and I must get ready to do the shopping.
> > Take care Kath!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Kerry
>
> .......I really appreciate your support.
> Thanks & do take care & keep in touch.
>
> Kath
Hi Kath,
Thanks for your message. I'll start by saying that I did have my hair fixed up. I had about 4 inches taken off as it was all dead ends and looked quite a mess but now it's much better and feels better too. I don't feel so bad about it now and it is easier to look after, just shoulder length now!
I am the same as you with spending time on here, I just can't seem to get away and when I look at the time, I think, "where's it gone"? But I love it on here, the people are so very nice and helpful. I think, if it had not have been for this, I would have been very alone but finding this site (I don't know how I did) really helped me understand a lot of what I was going through and the support was tremendous!!!!!!
I am glad your daughter has realized the benfit of the meds. It is very confusing when you start to feel different, actually funtioning and as she has done, going of the meds, I have done that too in the past with not very good results. I thought I was on top of the world and so happy, but it didn't take long for my world to come crashing down!! I think it takes a lot of understanding to know what it feels like to feel normal if you know what I mean, I find it very hard even today to know how I'm supposed to feel and what a normal feeling is. You sound like a great mum, so supportive of her, I think she is a lucky girl to have you!!!
Sorry about your son. My eldest son is also into the marijuana and the last time I saw him, he confessed to me that he was. As a matter of fact, he snuck out the back and had it and when he came back inside I looked at him and gently confronted him about it. I just told him to be careful, that there are dangers and terrible side affects that can come from it and that I am always here if he needs to talk or just have support. He was O.K about it, inside my heart I was crying but I couldn't let him know that.
It's good that your son admitted to taking the $160.00 from you, and I agree with you, it would be a bad idea to give him the money his bio-dad sends you because we know where that would go.
Sometimes, and in situations like this, we have to be cruel to be kind!
Sometimes they can hold a grudge against us thinking we are the meanest mums in the world but I think let it be that way because in the end, they find the right direction along the way. They might go through some really tough times but that is the only way for them to learn. Parents are not the doorway to easy street as some kids think.
The only real way to sort out the things that are bothering him is to talk about them, that's easy to say because they don't take advice lightly, but you never know, he might just turn around when things get too much for him one day and ask for help.
All we can do as parents, is be there for them, as you are doing, do the cruel to be kind bit and pray!!!!
Hope this has been of some help. I am only going by my own experience in these matters and they seem to have worked for me, not all the time of course, but alot of it. I shall hold you and your kids in my prayers if you like and hope things improve for you and for them.
Hang in there! You sound like a wonderful mum and person so don't let it get you down, just take one day at a time and when you wake up each morning, say a little prayer for the events that will take place that day and hand them over.
Better go now, I have to do the lovely job of ironing the kids clothes so as I can pack them for their week with Grandma!!!!!Bye for now.....Kerry
Posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 1:17:45
In reply to tremors, posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 22:42:49
> kerry, You a burden.. never !
>
> now for tremors !
>
> tremor is usually mediated by the adrenergic system. both zyprexa & lithium can cause this. with zyprexa being the likely culprit ( incidence increases with dose increases). irritability is a manefestation of anxiety & anxiety also drives tremor as I can well attest to. so anxiety may be part of the tremor.
>
> very glad the suicidal thoughts are down. that is a good sign. anger & irritability soon to follow, banished to the outback !
>
> Gettin' on the plane now to come to your grand cafe oppening for breakfast ! Just a joke !
>
> I have always wanted roo bacon & emu eggs for breakfast !
>
> Cheers, Kerry, onward & upward
Hi Dan,
I'm going to have to make up a thousand posts of thank yous to you!!!!!!
You are quite welcome to my cafe anytime but I could't bring my self to cook roo and emu though I believe they taste wonderful!!!!! You'll just have to have the plain old pig and hen, will that do oh and of course freshly squeezed orange juice and a muffin will that do too???
Hopefully the anger etc will go away soon as I can't stand it. It just pops up from nowhere, same with the irritability but this coming week, my kids are going on hols to granny"s, so I will have the week to myself to do some analyzing, really looking forward to it as it is hard trying to get well and looking after kids etc.
How do you deal with your anxiety and such? You might just have the answer, like stay in bed all day????? just resting and relaxing??????????
What time is your plane arriving? I shall send my private helicopter to pick you up!!!!hahahahahaha
Breakfast is served around 8am.
Well, gotta go and pack the kids things so I am organized in the morning (mornings aaaggghhh)I will miss them but I'm sure the break away from all the happenings that have gone on around here will do them good as well, poor things!!!
O.K take care and a thousand thanks Dr. Dan......Kerry
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2000, at 8:28:05
In reply to tremors, posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 22:42:49
Dear DanF,
On behalf of the folks here, I just want to thank you for your relevant and knowledgable input. I don't know if you had been a participant on Psycho-Babble before I arrived here (10/99), but I value your presence now.
> kerry, You a burden.. never !
>
> now for tremors !How very exciting!
> tremor is usually mediated by the adrenergic system. both zyprexa & lithium can cause this. with zyprexa being the likely culprit ( incidence increases with dose increases). irritability is a manefestation of anxiety & anxiety also drives tremor as I can well attest to. so anxiety may be part of the tremor.
In Re: Tremor stuffIn the past, some doctors would rely upon hand tremors as a clinical indicator of therapeutic dosages of lithium. They would adjust the dosage to the minimum that would produce them, the tremors being barely noticeable.
Question: In what ways are Zyprexa-induced tremors different from lithium-induced tremors? How are they produced? Along with the fine hand tremors, I noticed a cog-wheel effect when I lifted weights while taking lithium.
In Re: Heuristic stuffMuch of what lithium does to exert its therapeutic effects are not understood. It does so many things. You've got me curious to review some of the mechanisms by which it affects membrane potentials and electrolyte pumps. Perhaps I should save my energy and let you review them for me. :-) (half-serious). One of the things that has been studied is the effects lithium has on postsynaptic second-messenger systems, particularly protein kinase-C (PKC). I believe there is some speculation that this ultimately results in changes in gene expression. It also inhibits glycogen synthase kinase 3 beta (GSK-3 beta), which leads to the production of both neurotrophic and neuroprotective substances (MAP1B-P and bcl-2 respectively). Lithium also directly inhibits membrane receptor G-protein activity, which might help to explain its immediate antimanic effects. I think I remember an NIH doctor tell me that lithium also changes the expression of G-proteins through c-FOS mediated gene transcription, but my memory is vague on this.
- Scott
-----------------------------------------------
Found this on Medline:
13: Aust N Z J Psychiatry 1999 Dec;33 Suppl:S65-83Signalling pathways in the brain: cellular transduction of mood stabilisation in
the treatment of manic-depressive illness.Manji HK, McNamara R, Chen G, Lenox RH
Department of Psychiatry, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit,
Michigan 48201, USA. [email protected]The long-term treatment of manic-depressive illness (MDI) likely involves the
strategic regulation of signalling pathways and gene expression in critical
neuronal circuits. Accumulated evidence has identified signalling pathways, in
particular the family of protein kinase C (PKC) isozymes, as targets for the
long-term action of lithium. Chronic lithium administration produces a reduction
in the expression of PKC alpha and epsilon, as well as a major PKC substrate,
MARCKS, which has been implicated in long-term neuroplastic events in the
developing and adult brain. More recently, studies have demonstrated robust
effects of lithium on another kinase system, GSK-3beta, and on
neuroprotective/neurotrophic proteins in the brain. Given the key roles of these
signalling cascades in the amplification and integration of signals in the
central nervous system, these findings have clear implications not only for
research into the neurobiology of MDI, but also for the future development of
novel and innovative treatment strategies.Publication Types:
Review
Review, tutorialPMID: 10622182, UI: 20085894
Posted by danf on July 8, 2000, at 11:03:25
In reply to Re: tremors, lithium, mechanisms » danf, posted by SLS on July 8, 2000, at 8:28:05
scott,
Thank you for your kind words.
You posed some provocative questions for sure.
I do not know if Li & zyprexa tremors are different or mediated in a different way.
some thoughts. Li produces fine tremors usually. zyprexa, I don't know ? since Kerry had been on the same dose of Li for sometime & had not noticed tremor before, probably related to the zyp. The tremor induction may be additive with the 2 ?
anxiety induced tremor is adrenergic mediated & of the intention type. In my personal observation, focusing on a task where tremor was a hinderance made the tremor worse. at the same time BP & HR increased. BP & HR are good objective markers for adrenergic effects. Beta blockers counteract this effect very well.
No some thoughts about Li.
What we do know is that changes in lytes & lytes ratios affects different nerves in different ways. exactly which ones & where they are is unknown for Li.
The brain works as a giant complex electrical circuit. There are feed back loops. loops that stabilize, loops that sensitize. some drugs energize some nerves, some depress some.
Li at therapeutic levels affects some of the controls & appears to have a stabilizing overall effect. whether this releases some circuits that are depressed or depresses some circuits that are overactive is unknown.
It obviously affects multiple circuits as several different neurotransmitters have changes in concentration.
Whether the enzyme effects are direct ( & personally I doubt they are ) or indirect is unknown. Enzymes tend to be regulated by chemicals & not ions. ions usually have a work /no work function. Most of the ion effects are in general from trace elements, like cobalt, Mg, Iron, Chrome, Mn, Copper, etc.
So I expect that the enzyme /Li effects are due to chemicals released or not released by brain nerve endings. These chemicals may be neurotransmitters or proteins or other chemicals in the brain tissue.
It is quite a complex subject & very difficult to study. The amounts of chemicals can be quite small & low concentrations. One has to have a good guess ( theory ) as to what to look for before starting experiments or the right tests won't be done. Even the right tests may not be sensitive enough.
Isloated tissue studies may not give accurate results as interactions of different nerve types ( receptor types ) are involved in the overall result. There are probably other receptor types that are as yet unknown, along with other transmitters that may play a role.
A long winded, I don't know either.
Or better yet. I did know & forgot to write it down in my notebook. Then I got depressed & my memory went bad & I forgot it all ! LOL
Best wishes Scott, hope you find the right combo.
remember, eat a fish & help clean up the enviornment ! You know what those fish do in the water !
Posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 17:09:01
In reply to Re: tremors, lithium, mechanisms » danf, posted by SLS on July 8, 2000, at 8:28:05
> Dear DanF,
>
> On behalf of the folks here, I just want to thank you for your relevant and knowledgable input. I don't know if you had been a participant on Psycho-Babble before I arrived here (10/99), but I value your presence now.
>
>
> > kerry, You a burden.. never !
> >
> > now for tremors !
>
> How very exciting!
>
> > tremor is usually mediated by the adrenergic system. both zyprexa & lithium can cause this. with zyprexa being the likely culprit ( incidence increases with dose increases). irritability is a manefestation of anxiety & anxiety also drives tremor as I can well attest to. so anxiety may be part of the tremor.
>
>
> In Re: Tremor stuff
>
> In the past, some doctors would rely upon hand tremors as a clinical indicator of therapeutic dosages of lithium. They would adjust the dosage to the minimum that would produce them, the tremors being barely noticeable.
>
> Question: In what ways are Zyprexa-induced tremors different from lithium-induced tremors? How are they produced? Along with the fine hand tremors, I noticed a cog-wheel effect when I lifted weights while taking lithium.
>
>
> In Re: Heuristic stuff
>
> Much of what lithium does to exert its therapeutic effects are not understood. It does so many things. You've got me curious to review some of the mechanisms by which it affects membrane potentials and electrolyte pumps. Perhaps I should save my energy and let you review them for me. :-) (half-serious). One of the things that has been studied is the effects lithium has on postsynaptic second-messenger systems, particularly protein kinase-C (PKC). I believe there is some speculation that this ultimately results in changes in gene expression. It also inhibits glycogen synthase kinase 3 beta (GSK-3 beta), which leads to the production of both neurotrophic and neuroprotective substances (MAP1B-P and bcl-2 respectively). Lithium also directly inhibits membrane receptor G-protein activity, which might help to explain its immediate antimanic effects. I think I remember an NIH doctor tell me that lithium also changes the expression of G-proteins through c-FOS mediated gene transcription, but my memory is vague on this.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
> Found this on Medline:
>
>
> 13: Aust N Z J Psychiatry 1999 Dec;33 Suppl:S65-83
>
> Signalling pathways in the brain: cellular transduction of mood stabilisation in
> the treatment of manic-depressive illness.
>
> Manji HK, McNamara R, Chen G, Lenox RH
>
> Department of Psychiatry, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit,
> Michigan 48201, USA. [email protected]
>
> The long-term treatment of manic-depressive illness (MDI) likely involves the
> strategic regulation of signalling pathways and gene expression in critical
> neuronal circuits. Accumulated evidence has identified signalling pathways, in
> particular the family of protein kinase C (PKC) isozymes, as targets for the
> long-term action of lithium. Chronic lithium administration produces a reduction
> in the expression of PKC alpha and epsilon, as well as a major PKC substrate,
> MARCKS, which has been implicated in long-term neuroplastic events in the
> developing and adult brain. More recently, studies have demonstrated robust
> effects of lithium on another kinase system, GSK-3beta, and on
> neuroprotective/neurotrophic proteins in the brain. Given the key roles of these
> signalling cascades in the amplification and integration of signals in the
> central nervous system, these findings have clear implications not only for
> research into the neurobiology of MDI, but also for the future development of
> novel and innovative treatment strategies.
>
> Publication Types:
> Review
> Review, tutorial
>
> PMID: 10622182, UI: 20085894
Hi all!!!
Gosh some of those words you used I can't even find in the dictionary!!! I shall stick to the simple stuff as that is all I can handle at the moment!!
Remembering back to when I started on lithium, I did have the shakes a bit (I'm on 1,000mg per day) but I just put it down to nerves and anxiety, so all along it was the lithium?
Nobody, meaning doctors or team workers, ever explains what side affects I will experience so I have to diagnose myself half the time or read the leaflet in the box but the lithium came with nothing, just a white bottle that stares me in the face morning and night!!!
This zyprexa seems to be doing it's job. Still having terrible trouble with my memory (maybe I have developed Alzheimers and I don't know it) and still having trouble with EPS, though not so sure if it is that. Every night at about 8pm, I start getting irritable inside myself so I start doing the ironing or anything else I can find to do, it's really annoying. It's like I have to release the feeling or otherwise I'll explode. Don't know if this is a side effect from lithium/zyprexa or just my frame of mind, but I am starting to feel better and getting on top of things.
I think it was you Scott, that told me about SANE Australia. I looked into it. It is a site where you can put to them a question and they E-mail you back and they more of less tell you to go and see you doctor. But thanks anyway, I gave it a try.
Hope everyone is well, best go now and do the "Cafe ala Kerry" breakfast round.......aaaagggghhhh!!!!!!!!
Posted by Kath on July 8, 2000, at 18:35:55
In reply to Re: to Kath from kerry B, posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 1:00:07
> > Hi Kath,
> Thanks for your message. I'll start by saying that I did have my hair fixed up. I had about 4 inches taken off as it was all dead ends and looked quite a mess but now it's much better and feels better too. I don't feel so bad about it now and it is easier to look after, just shoulder length now!
> I am the same as you with spending time on here, I just can't seem to get away and when I look at the time, I think, "where's it gone"? But I love it on here, the people are so very nice and helpful. I think, if it had not have been for this, I would have been very alone but finding this site (I don't know how I did) really helped me understand a lot of what I was going through and the support was tremendous!!!!!!
> I am glad your daughter has realized the benfit of the meds. It is very confusing when you start to feel different, actually funtioning and as she has done, going of the meds, I have done that too in the past with not very good results. I thought I was on top of the world and so happy, but it didn't take long for my world to come crashing down!! I think it takes a lot of understanding to know what it feels like to feel normal if you know what I mean, I find it very hard even today to know how I'm supposed to feel and what a normal feeling is. You sound like a great mum, so supportive of her, I think she is a lucky girl to have you!!!
> Sorry about your son. My eldest son is also into the marijuana and the last time I saw him, he confessed to me that he was. As a matter of fact, he snuck out the back and had it and when he came back inside I looked at him and gently confronted him about it. I just told him to be careful, that there are dangers and terrible side affects that can come from it and that I am always here if he needs to talk or just have support. He was O.K about it, inside my heart I was crying but I couldn't let him know that.
> It's good that your son admitted to taking the $160.00 from you, and I agree with you, it would be a bad idea to give him the money his bio-dad sends you because we know where that would go.
> Sometimes, and in situations like this, we have to be cruel to be kind!
> Sometimes they can hold a grudge against us thinking we are the meanest mums in the world but I think let it be that way because in the end, they find the right direction along the way. They might go through some really tough times but that is the only way for them to learn. Parents are not the doorway to easy street as some kids think.
> The only real way to sort out the things that are bothering him is to talk about them, that's easy to say because they don't take advice lightly, but you never know, he might just turn around when things get too much for him one day and ask for help.
> All we can do as parents, is be there for them, as you are doing, do the cruel to be kind bit and pray!!!!
> Hope this has been of some help. I am only going by my own experience in these matters and they seem to have worked for me, not all the time of course, but alot of it. I shall hold you and your kids in my prayers if you like and hope things improve for you and for them.
> Hang in there! You sound like a wonderful mum and person so don't let it get you down, just take one day at a time and when you wake up each morning, say a little prayer for the events that will take place that day and hand them over.
> Better go now, I have to do the lovely job of ironing the kids clothes so as I can pack them for their week with Grandma!!!!!Bye for now.....
>
> KerryHi Kerry - THX alot for your kind words. If I'm objective I acknowledge that I'm a good mum, but then I thing 'ya, but if should have done this & this etc. etc.' My daughter has told me how glad she is that I'm her Mom & how she tells her friends about me & they say "Wow, your Mom is so neat." That really makes me feel pretty good, especially right now! Thanks for sharing & for supporting the "cruel to be kind" school. I'm feeling pretty good today, but haven't seen our son yet today & he camped on the patio again last nite. I guess I'll have to go out in the night & speak to him!! Oh well.
I'm excited that you got your hair done! I have chin-length naturally-curly (VERY) hair & recently, I went to the hair dresser & said I'm so SICK of always having it the same way!!!!! He dried it with the blow-dryer & a round brush & it was smooth & straight with a slight curl under & made bangs going sideways. I LOVED IT!!! I got it done a few times like that I truly love it. I can't do it myself, so just touch it up with the brush & blow-dryer & wait AGES to wash it. The minute it's damp out my hair goes "BOING!" into curls! I wanted to get it done again, but it's been rainy alot & it would be a waste of money because BOING! Anyway, I do know now that I can do that. It feels wonderful to have my "straight" hair blow in the wind.
Thx for sharing about your son. Apparently marijuana today is massively stronger than in my teen days. Therefore it has a way stronger effect on users. I've heard this from various sources.
Hope all your ironing & packing etc. goes well. Take wonderful care of yourself.
Hugs. Kath :-)
Posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 20:56:36
In reply to To Kerry B, posted by Kath on July 8, 2000, at 18:35:55
> > > Hi Kath,
> > Thanks for your message. I'll start by saying that I did have my hair fixed up. I had about 4 inches taken off as it was all dead ends and looked quite a mess but now it's much better and feels better too. I don't feel so bad about it now and it is easier to look after, just shoulder length now!
> > I am the same as you with spending time on here, I just can't seem to get away and when I look at the time, I think, "where's it gone"? But I love it on here, the people are so very nice and helpful. I think, if it had not have been for this, I would have been very alone but finding this site (I don't know how I did) really helped me understand a lot of what I was going through and the support was tremendous!!!!!!
> > I am glad your daughter has realized the benfit of the meds. It is very confusing when you start to feel different, actually funtioning and as she has done, going of the meds, I have done that too in the past with not very good results. I thought I was on top of the world and so happy, but it didn't take long for my world to come crashing down!! I think it takes a lot of understanding to know what it feels like to feel normal if you know what I mean, I find it very hard even today to know how I'm supposed to feel and what a normal feeling is. You sound like a great mum, so supportive of her, I think she is a lucky girl to have you!!!
> > Sorry about your son. My eldest son is also into the marijuana and the last time I saw him, he confessed to me that he was. As a matter of fact, he snuck out the back and had it and when he came back inside I looked at him and gently confronted him about it. I just told him to be careful, that there are dangers and terrible side affects that can come from it and that I am always here if he needs to talk or just have support. He was O.K about it, inside my heart I was crying but I couldn't let him know that.
> > It's good that your son admitted to taking the $160.00 from you, and I agree with you, it would be a bad idea to give him the money his bio-dad sends you because we know where that would go.
> > Sometimes, and in situations like this, we have to be cruel to be kind!
> > Sometimes they can hold a grudge against us thinking we are the meanest mums in the world but I think let it be that way because in the end, they find the right direction along the way. They might go through some really tough times but that is the only way for them to learn. Parents are not the doorway to easy street as some kids think.
> > The only real way to sort out the things that are bothering him is to talk about them, that's easy to say because they don't take advice lightly, but you never know, he might just turn around when things get too much for him one day and ask for help.
> > All we can do as parents, is be there for them, as you are doing, do the cruel to be kind bit and pray!!!!
> > Hope this has been of some help. I am only going by my own experience in these matters and they seem to have worked for me, not all the time of course, but alot of it. I shall hold you and your kids in my prayers if you like and hope things improve for you and for them.
> > Hang in there! You sound like a wonderful mum and person so don't let it get you down, just take one day at a time and when you wake up each morning, say a little prayer for the events that will take place that day and hand them over.
> > Better go now, I have to do the lovely job of ironing the kids clothes so as I can pack them for their week with Grandma!!!!!Bye for now.....
> >
> > Kerry
>
> Hi Kerry - THX alot for your kind words. If I'm objective I acknowledge that I'm a good mum, but then I thing 'ya, but if should have done this & this etc. etc.' My daughter has told me how glad she is that I'm her Mom & how she tells her friends about me & they say "Wow, your Mom is so neat." That really makes me feel pretty good, especially right now! Thanks for sharing & for supporting the "cruel to be kind" school. I'm feeling pretty good today, but haven't seen our son yet today & he camped on the patio again last nite. I guess I'll have to go out in the night & speak to him!! Oh well.
>
> I'm excited that you got your hair done! I have chin-length naturally-curly (VERY) hair & recently, I went to the hair dresser & said I'm so SICK of always having it the same way!!!!! He dried it with the blow-dryer & a round brush & it was smooth & straight with a slight curl under & made bangs going sideways. I LOVED IT!!! I got it done a few times like that I truly love it. I can't do it myself, so just touch it up with the brush & blow-dryer & wait AGES to wash it. The minute it's damp out my hair goes "BOING!" into curls! I wanted to get it done again, but it's been rainy alot & it would be a waste of money because BOING! Anyway, I do know now that I can do that. It feels wonderful to have my "straight" hair blow in the wind.
>
> Thx for sharing about your son. Apparently marijuana today is massively stronger than in my teen days. Therefore it has a way stronger effect on users. I've heard this from various sources.
>
> Hope all your ironing & packing etc. goes well. Take wonderful care of yourself.
>
> Hugs. Kath :-)
Hi Kath!!
Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better today.
You ARE SO LUCKY to have curly hair! I pay a fortune to get my hair permed so it's curly, my hair is flat straight and I have to style it every day with the blow dryer and the faithful old round brush I have! It's a real pain!!!
Just wondering why your son camps out on the patio. Is it because of the hours he keeps or he just prefers it that way?
When my 18 yr old was living with us a while ago, I could never sleep properly, sort of subconsciously waiting to hear him come home and when he did, be it whatever hour in the morning, I would get up and have a chat with him, not a confronting chat but a "as a matter of fact chat" and he'd end up telling me bit by bit of what he did and where he was then all I had to do was put all the pieces together and I'd have the full story without him even realizing.
We always have to be one step ahead and it's a tiring job. He no longer lives here any more, he moved back to the city with his brother.
Not blaming him or anything, but I think having him live with us for 7 months, trying to get him an identity as he had nothing, and trying to educate him about the real world took it's toll on my health. I lasted out while he was here, I always put on a happy face even though I was very depressed, but now, I finally broke down, the build up became too much and so I became ill again.
Anyway, we as mothers, have to take care of ourselves and stop being last all the time because if we become ill, who is there to run the household? I wouldn't hand it over to my hubby, he just has no idea!!!!! I think bringing up kids is like sailing a ship, we are the captains, we say the orders and show direction as long as the crew will obey. We begin in calm waters, a storm comes along but we manage to sail through it as best we can and then after the storm passes us by, we hit sunshine. It's a never ending journey but it is an adventure!!!!! That's the way I look at it! Hope I make sense!
Well, my kids left for grandma"s a little while ago so I am alone and I really don't know what to do with myself! Strange how you look forward to the break and when you get it you feel lost!!!
We are having friends over this-afternoon so I guess I could get ready for that.
O.K. I'll go now, keep smiling and big hugs to you!!!Kerry :)
Posted by Kath on July 10, 2000, at 15:33:08
In reply to Re: To Kath from Kerry B, posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 20:56:36
> > > > Hi Kath,
> > > Thanks for your message. I'll start by saying that I did have my hair fixed up. I had about 4 inches taken off as it was all dead ends and looked quite a mess but now it's much better and feels better too. I don't feel so bad about it now and it is easier to look after, just shoulder length now!
> > > I am the same as you with spending time on here, I just can't seem to get away and when I look at the time, I think, "where's it gone"? But I love it on here, the people are so very nice and helpful. I think, if it had not have been for this, I would have been very alone but finding this site (I don't know how I did) really helped me understand a lot of what I was going through and the support was tremendous!!!!!!
> > > I am glad your daughter has realized the benfit of the meds. It is very confusing when you start to feel different, actually funtioning and as she has done, going of the meds, I have done that too in the past with not very good results. I thought I was on top of the world and so happy, but it didn't take long for my world to come crashing down!! I think it takes a lot of understanding to know what it feels like to feel normal if you know what I mean, I find it very hard even today to know how I'm supposed to feel and what a normal feeling is. You sound like a great mum, so supportive of her, I think she is a lucky girl to have you!!!
> > > Sorry about your son. My eldest son is also into the marijuana and the last time I saw him, he confessed to me that he was. As a matter of fact, he snuck out the back and had it and when he came back inside I looked at him and gently confronted him about it. I just told him to be careful, that there are dangers and terrible side affects that can come from it and that I am always here if he needs to talk or just have support. He was O.K about it, inside my heart I was crying but I couldn't let him know that.
> > > It's good that your son admitted to taking the $160.00 from you, and I agree with you, it would be a bad idea to give him the money his bio-dad sends you because we know where that would go.
> > > Sometimes, and in situations like this, we have to be cruel to be kind!
> > > Sometimes they can hold a grudge against us thinking we are the meanest mums in the world but I think let it be that way because in the end, they find the right direction along the way. They might go through some really tough times but that is the only way for them to learn. Parents are not the doorway to easy street as some kids think.
> > > The only real way to sort out the things that are bothering him is to talk about them, that's easy to say because they don't take advice lightly, but you never know, he might just turn around when things get too much for him one day and ask for help.
> > > All we can do as parents, is be there for them, as you are doing, do the cruel to be kind bit and pray!!!!
> > > Hope this has been of some help. I am only going by my own experience in these matters and they seem to have worked for me, not all the time of course, but alot of it. I shall hold you and your kids in my prayers if you like and hope things improve for you and for them.
> > > Hang in there! You sound like a wonderful mum and person so don't let it get you down, just take one day at a time and when you wake up each morning, say a little prayer for the events that will take place that day and hand them over.
> > > Better go now, I have to do the lovely job of ironing the kids clothes so as I can pack them for their week with Grandma!!!!!Bye for now.....
> > >
> > > Kerry
> >
> > Hi Kerry - THX alot for your kind words. If I'm objective I acknowledge that I'm a good mum, but then I thing 'ya, but if should have done this & this etc. etc.' My daughter has told me how glad she is that I'm her Mom & how she tells her friends about me & they say "Wow, your Mom is so neat." That really makes me feel pretty good, especially right now! Thanks for sharing & for supporting the "cruel to be kind" school. I'm feeling pretty good today, but haven't seen our son yet today & he camped on the patio again last nite. I guess I'll have to go out in the night & speak to him!! Oh well.
> >
> > I'm excited that you got your hair done! I have chin-length naturally-curly (VERY) hair & recently, I went to the hair dresser & said I'm so SICK of always having it the same way!!!!! He dried it with the blow-dryer & a round brush & it was smooth & straight with a slight curl under & made bangs going sideways. I LOVED IT!!! I got it done a few times like that I truly love it. I can't do it myself, so just touch it up with the brush & blow-dryer & wait AGES to wash it. The minute it's damp out my hair goes "BOING!" into curls! I wanted to get it done again, but it's been rainy alot & it would be a waste of money because BOING! Anyway, I do know now that I can do that. It feels wonderful to have my "straight" hair blow in the wind.
> >
> > Thx for sharing about your son. Apparently marijuana today is massively stronger than in my teen days. Therefore it has a way stronger effect on users. I've heard this from various sources.
> >
> > Hope all your ironing & packing etc. goes well. Take wonderful care of yourself.
> >
> > Hugs. Kath :-)
>
>HI KERRY B. - I'm answering throughout your post & will mark my entries with .............
> Hi Kath!!
> Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better today.
> You ARE SO LUCKY to have curly hair! I pay a fortune to get my hair permed so it's curly, my hair is flat straight and I have to style it every day with the blow dryer and the faithful old round brush I have! It's a real pain!!!..................I know, people always say I'm so lucky, but it does what it wants to & that's not often what I'd like. I did go today & got it done. Isn't that funny; you curl yours with a round brush & blow dryer & I get mine done that way at the hairdresser's & then smooth it out with the round brush & dryer! Oh well, seems like most people aren't satisfied with their hair. I suppose with my permanent permanent, at least when I go swimming I just let it dry after & it looks like it always does.
> Just wondering why your son camps out on the patio. Is it because of the hours he keeps or he just prefers it that way?
..............I don't know where I posted about it. Our son smokes pot daily, is unpredictable modd-wise (depends where on the drug-use cycle he is). He's been attending a day-treatment/school program. We've been having family councelling there, but all he's interested in is US making changes. He doesn't seem interested in HIM making any changes ALSO. A couple of weekends ago my son was gone for 4 days without letting us know his whereabouts. It turned out that he'd gone to a town about an hour & a bit from here with a friend from school & just didn't let us know. We had the police looking for him & tried to keep from getting too frantic. Then last weekend, we were planning to go away for the weekend; told our son he was invited to his sister's & we'd take him there - that if he didn't go, we needed him to make other arrangements, because we didn't want him or his friends in the house. When we got home, he's come in through the basement window & the pot smoke in his room was such that if you wanted to get stoned, just go in there & breathe. The next day (last Mon) we told him that because of how things have been going for the past months, we've decided that if there is a major breaking of our house rules, Strike 1 will be 2 full days off our property, Strike 2 will be 4 full days, Strike 3 will be find somewhere else to live. We said that if a serious enough event happened, it would be directly to Strike 3. We live in Canada. He is 16 & parents are legally responsible for providing shelter until out children are 16. Well, the very day after we told him about the Strikes, he was confrontational with me; demanding; disrespectul & stole $160. from my purse! So we went directly to Strike 3. I put some of his stuff in a knapsack & put his sleeping bag out in a plastic bag. Since then, he had been coming onto the patio after we were in bed, sleeping on the lounge in his sleeping bag & leaving before we got up. Last nite & the nite before, he slept elsewhere. He has a list of resources for teens, shelters, his social worker at the school, etc. & a phone card. He's been back to get his bag etc. & wasn't respectful. He's tried to get me to give him the support $ that I receive from his bio-Dad; he's tried to get me to give him money; etc. So that's where we're at. I've told him that even though he probably hates us right now & it probably feels like we hate him, we do love him. I've told him that if he has a plan in place & no way to get to a resource center or job-hunting, he can call me & we'll see what we can work out. He told me that he has somewhere he can live if he gets a job. I am completely worn down by his situation over the past year & a half (at least).
> When my 18 yr old was living with us a while ago, I could never sleep properly, sort of subconsciously waiting to hear him come home and when he did, be it whatever hour in the morning, I would get up and have a chat with him, not a confronting chat but a "as a matter of fact chat" and he'd end up telling me bit by bit of what he did and where he was then all I had to do was put all the pieces together and I'd have the full
story without him even realizing........My son & I communicate pretty well & he tells me alot of things, but the drugs get in the way BIG_TIME. I never know who I'm going to be talking to - my nice kid, who I like, or some confrontation, disrepectful jerk. (He's called me a F-ing Bi--- etc.)
> We always have to be one step ahead and it's a tiring job. He no longer lives here any more, he moved back to the city with his brother.
> Not blaming him or anything, but I think having him live with us for 7 months, trying to get him an identity as he had nothing, and trying to educate him about the real world took it's toll on my health. I lasted out while he was here, I always put on a happy face even though I was very depressed, but now, I finally broke down, the build up became too much and so I became ill again...............I know! I think he's what caused my anxiety to get worse & worse. Now that he's out of the house, I feel so calm. Yes, I'm upset about it sometimes, but I don't feel as if I don't know what to expect, & I don't keep having his "stuff" to deal with.
> Anyway, we as mothers, have to take care of ourselves and stop being last all the time because if we become ill, who is there to run the household? I wouldn't hand it over to my hubby, he just has no idea!!!!! I think bringing up kids is like sailing a ship, we are the captains, we say the orders and show direction as long as the crew will obey. We begin in calm waters, a storm comes along but we manage to sail through it as best we can and then after the storm passes us by, we hit sunshine. It's a never ending journey but it is an adventure!!!!! That's the way I look at it! Hope I make sense!
.........Makes ALOT of sense. I don't feel like I want the "teenage adventure" right now, or for the near future - I should say the "drug-using-tennage adventure". They're 2 different things, for sure.
> Well, my kids left for grandma"s a little while ago so I am alone and I really don't know what to do with myself! Strange how you look forward to the break and when you get it you feel lost!!!
> We are having friends over this-afternoon so I guess I could get ready for that.
> O.K. I'll go now, keep smiling and big hugs to you!!!
>
> Kerry :)I hope it doesn't take you too long to get into the swing of what to do with all that TIME for yourself!!. Hope you & your friends have fun.
Take care. Hugs, Kath
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