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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 38. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Angela5 on June 16, 2000, at 12:55:58
My stepfather was saying that fish oil really helped his neice, who was diagnosed as bipolar. He seems to be convinced that it will solve my problems - I don't know about that. :) Has anyone tried fish oil, and with what result? Thanks!!
Posted by Greg on June 16, 2000, at 13:16:12
In reply to Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?, posted by Angela5 on June 16, 2000, at 12:55:58
Angela,
I remember not too long ago their being a thread on this subject. I'm sure it's in one of the recent archives. You might find some useful input there. If you have trouble finding it, let me know and I'll see if I can find it for you.
Hope you're having a peaceful day.
Greg
> My stepfather was saying that fish oil really helped his neice, who was diagnosed as bipolar. He seems to be convinced that it will solve my problems - I don't know about that. :) Has anyone tried fish oil, and with what result? Thanks!!
Posted by Cam W. on June 16, 2000, at 13:32:30
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?, posted by Greg on June 16, 2000, at 13:16:12
Angela - In a nutshell, the fish oils do seem to help some people, but the active ingredient (whatever it is - gamma - leolinic acid -sp?- and/or others) is in a low concentration. The amount of fish oil you need to take to be effective, leaves you smelling like a fish (similar to the way eating to much garlic makes you smell garlicy; the odor seems to ooze out of your pours). This will probably be a problem until scientists tease out the actual active ingredient(s) and can concentrate them.
Hope this helps - Cam
Posted by KarenB on June 16, 2000, at 15:05:06
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?, posted by Greg on June 16, 2000, at 13:16:12
> I remember not too long ago their being a thread on this subject. I'm sure it's in one of the recent archives. You might find some useful input there. If you have trouble finding it, let me know and I'll see if I can find it for you.
It was a couple of weeks ago, entitled Omega 3...Chris A knows the researched actual amounts you are supposed to take to get the therapeutic range and it is HUGE - like 25 pills a day or something. That's dang expensive and I haven't heard anyone say yet that it really helped them. Plus, from what I have heard about the resulting "fragrance," I wouldn't want to be known as "trout girl."
Karen
Posted by Angela5 on June 16, 2000, at 19:01:04
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?, posted by KarenB on June 16, 2000, at 15:05:06
Thanks for the responses. I found a few different previous threads, which helped out very much. Those "side effects" of the fishy smell and such would be a bit more than I can take - my depression is isolating enough!! I'll continue to research it, though.
A question I do have is this: I eat a ton of fish anyway - does anyone know what kind of concentration of omega 3s are found in edible fish in general?
Posted by KarenB on June 16, 2000, at 19:45:30
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - thanks, and one more question..?, posted by Angela5 on June 16, 2000, at 19:01:04
Angela,
At www.barleans.com is a company which sells top quality flax oil. You can buy it in better health food stores and at their website, by mail. On the home page, there's a link to "education and literature" where you can find quite a bit about Omega 3 and whether you can get it aside from fish.
The flax oil doesn't taste disgusting, which is more than I can say for salmon oil. If you mix it with yogurt, I'm told, it is barely discernable. I am out of it now but when I have it, I take 1 Tablespoon, twice a day and chase it with water.
I read that one sign of deficiency of Omega3 would be cracked, dry heels and/or fingertips.
Just thought you may be interested. I'm sure Barleans will appreciate the advertisement, as well:)
Karen
Posted by JohnL on June 17, 2000, at 4:29:40
In reply to Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?, posted by Angela5 on June 16, 2000, at 12:55:58
Angela,
Have you tried St Johnswort? Or SAMe? It just seems to me that if one is going to try natural remedies, it would be wise to start with the two proven powerhorses in that field. In terms of research, clinical evidence, anecdotal evidence, and likelihood of working, fish oil falls way short in comparison to SJW or SAMe.SJW. It inhibits reuptake of serotonin, much like Prozac. But it also inhibits reuptake of norepinephrine, dopamine, and GABA as well. A wide spectrum antidepressant. The pharmaceutical grade stuff is available from the brands Kira, Movana, and Nature's Way Perika. Ricola has also jumped on the 3% hyperforin bandwagon. A newer brand called New Chapter, at health food stores, now has 10% hyperforin. That's powerful stuff. Hyperforin is the suspected primary active ingredient in SJW.
While this board is visited mainly by folks dealing with prescription meds, there are actually a lot of people out there doing very well with SJW. It's just my opinion, but I think the standard 3 pills a day dose is way too low. That's because one clinical study showed a regular 300mg dose is roughly the same as a 10mg dose of a tricyclic antidepressant. Tricyclic therapeutic doses usually begin at 75mg, so obviously 10mg three times a day is not enough. In a couple of the most successful clinical trials of SJW, the doses used were 2700mg a day, which is 9 pills a day. While there are many clinical trials of SJW showing it to be as good or better than a prescription, many of those trials were flawed somewhat and can be picked apart. Yet, there are so many of them all pointing in the same direction it's hard to ignore the potential. A couple trials were indeed completely legit, and they too showed SJW to be as good or better than prescrip.
We usually think of SJW for mild to moderate depression. Those studies that used 2700mg proved that SJW is good for severe depression as well, and they even stated as such. So whether you've tried SJW or not, you might want to give it a solid trial with minimum 3 tabs a day, maximum 9, for 4 to 6 weeks. Since I realize finances are a major concern right now, the price tag of less than $10 should make this option even more attractive.
Does it really work? Yes it does. With everyone? No it doesn't. Just like any other antidepressant. I've heard a few real life accounts of SJW working very well. It works with me too, though not totally. I can feel its benefits a little bit by day 3, but more pronounced at about 3 weeks. The longer the better. It keeps on getting better up to about 3 months. Even though I've found other things I like even better, I still keep some SJW in my system. Usually one dose every other day or so. Just enough to keep it in the background. I know it's doing something good, because I definitely notice when I stop taking it. When I was taking it fulltime, I discovered my optimum dose was 5 pills a day.
If you want to see all the info and review the clinical trials of SJW, go to www.hypericum.com. It's all there.
I've also tried SAMe. It too is backed up by decades of research, mostly in Europe. In my experience SAMe's primary benefit is the potential to lift someone out of that deep dark hole FAST. For me, it has done so time and again (6 different times, all the same). When I experienced a real bad slump, I would take 2 pills with water in midmorning on an empty stomach, 2 more in midafternoon the same way. By day 3 I was out of that deep hole and then reduced dosage to 2 pills a day. The only reason I never stayed with it was the cost. That's a problem. $20 for barely a 5 day supply.
Either of these options--SJW or SAMe, or both together--seem much more credible and likely to work than fish oil. The optimum approach would be to start both at the same time...SAMe for fast relief, and then taper off it while the SJW has a chance to take over for longer term.
This is a lot longer than I planned. But I just wanted to say that if you are looking for natural methods, nothing compares to SJW. It's a serious herb. And if you need FAST results, SAMe is the one. The major obstacle is probably the cost, which makes SJW look the most attractive of the two.
You could take fish oil along with SJW of SAMe. But quite honestly, I don't think fish oil by itself stands a chance in hell of ending your despair.
JohnL
Posted by Dwight on June 17, 2000, at 9:56:16
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?-Angela, posted by JohnL on June 17, 2000, at 4:29:40
>
JohnL,I read your post here earlier this morning, saying that it was important to get a high enough dose of SJW, i.e., 2700mg/day.
On the bottle I have it recommends only 150mg twice a day (but it also contains reishi mushroom, avena sativa and lavender). Anyway, a few hours ago I took 8 capsules or 1200mg. Wow, what a difference! I've taken SJW on numerous occassions in the past and have never noticed much of anything. This time I really felt something--a warm, kind of bouncy feeling, hard to describe, but pleasant.
I'm wondering, however, if this might be due, not only to the increase in dose, but also to some sort of synergistic interaction between the SJW and the adrafinil and/or amisulpride. I remember you saying that this cocktail worked well for you.
Also, are you sure you mean hyperforin? That's one of the elements in SJW but the one that everyone talks about is hypericin and it's usually standardized to .3%, not 3%. Have they now decided that hyperforin is the most important agent?
Thanks, Dwight
Angela,
> Have you tried St Johnswort? Or SAMe? It just seems to me that if one is going to try natural remedies, it would be wise to start with the two proven powerhorses in that field. In terms of research, clinical evidence, anecdotal evidence, and likelihood of working, fish oil falls way short in comparison to SJW or SAMe.
>
> SJW. It inhibits reuptake of serotonin, much like Prozac. But it also inhibits reuptake of norepinephrine, dopamine, and GABA as well. A wide spectrum antidepressant. The pharmaceutical grade stuff is available from the brands Kira, Movana, and Nature's Way Perika. Ricola has also jumped on the 3% hyperforin bandwagon. A newer brand called New Chapter, at health food stores, now has 10% hyperforin. That's powerful stuff. Hyperforin is the suspected primary active ingredient in SJW.
>
> While this board is visited mainly by folks dealing with prescription meds, there are actually a lot of people out there doing very well with SJW. It's just my opinion, but I think the standard 3 pills a day dose is way too low. That's because one clinical study showed a regular 300mg dose is roughly the same as a 10mg dose of a tricyclic antidepressant. Tricyclic therapeutic doses usually begin at 75mg, so obviously 10mg three times a day is not enough. In a couple of the most successful clinical trials of SJW, the doses used were 2700mg a day, which is 9 pills a day. While there are many clinical trials of SJW showing it to be as good or better than a prescription, many of those trials were flawed somewhat and can be picked apart. Yet, there are so many of them all pointing in the same direction it's hard to ignore the potential. A couple trials were indeed completely legit, and they too showed SJW to be as good or better than prescrip.
>
> We usually think of SJW for mild to moderate depression. Those studies that used 2700mg proved that SJW is good for severe depression as well, and they even stated as such. So whether you've tried SJW or not, you might want to give it a solid trial with minimum 3 tabs a day, maximum 9, for 4 to 6 weeks. Since I realize finances are a major concern right now, the price tag of less than $10 should make this option even more attractive.
>
> Does it really work? Yes it does. With everyone? No it doesn't. Just like any other antidepressant. I've heard a few real life accounts of SJW working very well. It works with me too, though not totally. I can feel its benefits a little bit by day 3, but more pronounced at about 3 weeks. The longer the better. It keeps on getting better up to about 3 months. Even though I've found other things I like even better, I still keep some SJW in my system. Usually one dose every other day or so. Just enough to keep it in the background. I know it's doing something good, because I definitely notice when I stop taking it. When I was taking it fulltime, I discovered my optimum dose was 5 pills a day.
>
> If you want to see all the info and review the clinical trials of SJW, go to www.hypericum.com. It's all there.
>
> I've also tried SAMe. It too is backed up by decades of research, mostly in Europe. In my experience SAMe's primary benefit is the potential to lift someone out of that deep dark hole FAST. For me, it has done so time and again (6 different times, all the same). When I experienced a real bad slump, I would take 2 pills with water in midmorning on an empty stomach, 2 more in midafternoon the same way. By day 3 I was out of that deep hole and then reduced dosage to 2 pills a day. The only reason I never stayed with it was the cost. That's a problem. $20 for barely a 5 day supply.
>
> Either of these options--SJW or SAMe, or both together--seem much more credible and likely to work than fish oil. The optimum approach would be to start both at the same time...SAMe for fast relief, and then taper off it while the SJW has a chance to take over for longer term.
>
> This is a lot longer than I planned. But I just wanted to say that if you are looking for natural methods, nothing compares to SJW. It's a serious herb. And if you need FAST results, SAMe is the one. The major obstacle is probably the cost, which makes SJW look the most attractive of the two.
>
> You could take fish oil along with SJW of SAMe. But quite honestly, I don't think fish oil by itself stands a chance in hell of ending your despair.
> JohnL
Posted by Cam W. on June 17, 2000, at 11:25:33
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?-Angela, posted by JohnL on June 17, 2000, at 4:29:40
John - While I agree that SJW and , to a lesser extent, SAM-e do work for depression, I think that the present hypothesis for the mechanism of action of omega-3 fatty acids (fish oils) is more in line with current therapies for bipolar disorder.
Our standard bipolar disdorder therapies (eg lithium, carbamazepine, and valproate) and possibly the newer agents seem to work on the intracellular phosphoinositol pathway. This energy dependent (ATP?) pathway regulates the flow of calcium ions into the cell and also calcium ion release from the endoplasmic reticulum. A net result of which is the propagating of a more stable action potential (electrical signal) down the axon (of the nerve cell). Stated another way, the mood stabilizers seem to "even out" the electical flow (signals) along a nerve cell and presumably from one nerve cell to the next. Omega-3 fatty acids are thought to work on this same pathway.
So, while SJW and SAM-e may help with the depressive symptoms, theoretically omega-3 fatty acids (in a concentrated enough form) should decrease mania, as well as stemming depressive symptoms. The have been one or two isolated case reports that state that SJW has caused manic switch &/or hypomanic states in some people.
Just a thought - Cam
Posted by judy1 on June 17, 2000, at 18:20:14
In reply to Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?, posted by Angela5 on June 16, 2000, at 12:55:58
Angela,
I don't see a response from ChrisA here, but I believe she had some success with it. I've tried it (bipolar), I think 6 grams a day??- my memory is doing one of it's disappearing numbers, so I may be off. They're starting a study at the University I'm close to (for bipolars). For lack of a better word- I stunk of fish, but I think I had some success with slowing my cycling. I tend to be manic though (not now) and that may have had something to do with my response. I've also have run into another drug, norvasc for hypertension, I think it's a CCB (Cam or JohnL or you other knowledgeable posters please correct me if I'm wrong), that seemed fairly calming. But I'm probably getting off the subject, I say if it works for your cousin?- go for it. Take care- Judy
Posted by JohnL on June 17, 2000, at 18:24:00
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - has anyone tried this? » JohnL , posted by Cam W. on June 17, 2000, at 11:25:33
> John - While I agree that SJW and , to a lesser extent, SAM-e do work for depression, I think that the present hypothesis for the mechanism of action of omega-3 fatty acids (fish oils) is more in line with current therapies for bipolar disorder.
>
> Our standard bipolar disdorder therapies (eg lithium, carbamazepine, and valproate) and possibly the newer agents seem to work on the intracellular phosphoinositol pathway. This energy dependent (ATP?) pathway regulates the flow of calcium ions into the cell and also calcium ion release from the endoplasmic reticulum. A net result of which is the propagating of a more stable action potential (electrical signal) down the axon (of the nerve cell). Stated another way, the mood stabilizers seem to "even out" the electical flow (signals) along a nerve cell and presumably from one nerve cell to the next. Omega-3 fatty acids are thought to work on this same pathway.
>
> So, while SJW and SAM-e may help with the depressive symptoms, theoretically omega-3 fatty acids (in a concentrated enough form) should decrease mania, as well as stemming depressive symptoms. The have been one or two isolated case reports that state that SJW has caused manic switch &/or hypomanic states in some people.
>
> Just a thought - Cam
As far as I know, you are right on the money Cam. As I've heard it, fish oil seems more implicated in bipolar rather than depression. And I've seen reports of SJW and SAMe sparking off manic reactions. I think that's just more evidence that these substances are indeed powerful ones, and that they aren't appropriate for everyone. But I guess, nothing is for that matter. These manic reactions are pretty rare though as I understand it.But for someone drowning in a deep dark hole at this very moment, no money, nowhere to go, SJW and/or SAMe become real attractive. And unless a possible manic reaction turns out to be the agitated type, it would be a most welcome change to someone suffering so badly. At least for a while. Long enough to regain some footing.
My first pdoc refused to treat me with anything except lithium. He was fearful of sparking a hypomanic episode. Any hypomanic history I've ever had was characterized by activity, energy, projects. Not the wild spendy spree or fly off the handle kind of mania. I would have welcomed some mild mania. My current pdoc on the other hand said he would be most happy if he could find a drug that would put me in a hypomanic stage. The manic advantage I think they call it. Nothing wrong with that. Lots of successful people are hypomanic and don't even know it. Some of the best songs and best books were written by artists in a state of hypomania. Certainly an attractive risk to me when compared to that deep dark hole of depression.
JohnL
Posted by CarolAnn on June 18, 2000, at 17:47:25
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - thanks, and one more question..?, posted by Angela5 on June 16, 2000, at 19:01:04
>> A question I do have is this: I eat a ton of fish anyway - does anyone know what kind of concentration of omega 3s are found in edible fish in general?>>Angela, I noticed that no one had answered this for you. It depends on what kind of fish it is that you are eating. Fish that live in cold waters are the best for omega 3s, and the very best is salmon. I'm not even sure which other kinds of fish are considered 'cold water'(cod maybe), but that should be easy to research. I read that all we need is three servings of cold water fish per week to get the recommended amount of omega 3s. Happy fishing! CarolAnn
Posted by Chris A. on June 18, 2000, at 21:35:43
In reply to Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?, posted by Angela5 on June 16, 2000, at 12:55:58
Dear Angela and all,Try the site below for reliable information on the status of Omega 3s in bipolar.
http://www.mhsource.com/pt/p991211.html
Chris A.
Posted by Angela5 on June 19, 2000, at 2:07:04
In reply to Re: question about eating fish... » Angela5, posted by CarolAnn on June 18, 2000, at 17:47:25
>
> >> A question I do have is this: I eat a ton of fish anyway - does anyone know what kind of concentration of omega 3s are found in edible fish in general?>>
>
> Angela, I noticed that no one had answered this for you. It depends on what kind of fish it is that you are eating. Fish that live in cold waters are the best for omega 3s, and the very best is salmon. I'm not even sure which other kinds of fish are considered 'cold water'(cod maybe), but that should be easy to research. I read that all we need is three servings of cold water fish per week to get the recommended amount of omega 3s. Happy fishing! CarolAnnThanks CarolAnn. It seems that salmon has the highest concentration (approx 2 grams omega 3s per 3 oz).
One interesting thing is that the unofficial 'recommended' weekly dose of omega 3s is 3.5 g, whereas the Harvard study used 6.2 g EPA and 3.4 g DHA daily.
From all of the research I've been doing, I think I may do some MODERATE fish oil supplementation for all of the health benefits it seems to provide. If it helps anything psychiatrically, that'll be a bonus. :)Angela
Posted by Steeler Tookahn on July 19, 2000, at 17:21:14
In reply to Re: question about eating fish... » CarolAnn, posted by Angela5 on June 19, 2000, at 2:07:04
About a year ago I started taking 18 grams of Omega 3 fish oils (6 -3 tid). Each 1000 mg contains EPA 360; DHA 240.
I'm not sure how much it has helped the depression but my Cholesterol level dropped from to 570 to 293. It is still dropping and I will have it tested again in another month. My triglyceride levels made an even more dramatic drop -I'd have to dig out the lab results to be specific.
About two years ago I started Synthroid for mild hypothyroid. Hypothyroid can aggravate chol/lipid levels, so that may have helped also, but the doctor feels it is the fish oils doing the trick.
Oddly (fortunately), I rarely experience any fishy taste.
Posted by JamesMay on September 29, 2007, at 16:51:04
In reply to Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?, posted by Angela5 on June 16, 2000, at 12:55:58
Noticed this from 2000 and thought of this article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/features/article1006477.ece
I then looked up other sites for studies info and they all seemed to be saying the same thing. EPA only (no doubt there is some benefit from DHA, but maybe later). I have watched 2 nephews, who the school wanted to give ADHD drugs to, start to take EPA only (2 x 500mg a day) and in within 3 to 4 months both had improved at school. Both are still taking it and continue to do well at school.
Posted by rskontos on September 30, 2007, at 21:51:48
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?, posted by JamesMay on September 29, 2007, at 16:51:04
I used it to help me get off cymbalta. I have stopped taking the recommended dosage which I think is 4000mgs. It is used a great deal in Europe and claims are it is successful. Mine depression is returning so I think I will start back up. It helped my hair texture too so what the heck.........I certainly am not sure about it but I am willing to return to taking it while I look for more information. I don't think it can hurt you at that dosage but if anyone has information to the contrary....
Posted by lindka on September 30, 2007, at 22:12:47
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - has anyone tried this?, posted by Chris A. on June 18, 2000, at 21:35:43
I have bipolar and i am taking 1500mgs of lithium, 75mgs Zoloft and 600mg of Trileptal.
I have been taking 1700mg of EPA (2200mg total omega 3) (only 4 pils) fish oil for about 3 months and I have seen great improvement in my mood. In fact the Dr will be decreasing my lithium next visit.
You will not smell like fish or have "fish burps" if you buy a kind that is properly distilled. if you have fish burbs it means the fish oil is bad and has already oxidized.
i use "Nordic Naturals" EPA (850mg of EPA per serving) I go through 1 bottle every two weeks and each bottle is about $26. But i found a local store that gives me a 20% discount if I buy 6 bottles at a time. It is just another med that I add to my combo so it is worth the money. Not to mention all the other great benefits the omega 3's offer me.
I tell everyone. I am living proof it works.
Good luck.
Posted by rskontos on October 1, 2007, at 9:47:06
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - i take it, posted by lindka on September 30, 2007, at 22:12:47
I use the Nordic Naturals too. Where do you buy it that gives you a discount. I usually just buy it online and you can sometimes find it on sale. I buy it straight from them. It is good to find someone else taking it. The nordic naturals doesn't make me burp either and I usually take it on an empty stomach because I don't like breakfast. I am glad to hear it helps your moods. I think maybe I really need to resume it. I felt better on it and I ain't doing so good now. Thanks for the reminder.
Posted by lindka on October 1, 2007, at 10:28:36
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - i take it, posted by rskontos on October 1, 2007, at 9:47:06
I buy it from a store called "the good earth" in jacksonville, FL..try and find a small ma and pa store in your area, they will be more willing to give you a discount.
i know...its nice to meet someone else who takes it. i stopped for a while too and i am so glad i got back on it..it is expensive but so worth it for our minds and bodies. good for hair, skin and memory.
i give my 4year old a kid version by them. it is a strawberry liquid and she loves it. it has improved her learning and attitude. i swear, this stuff is a miricle!!!
i know when we start to feel better we think we do not need it anymore...but...because we feel better means we need to keep taking it.
it took me about two weeks after taking it to start seeing an improvement in mood and it got better from there..trust me, i still have bad days and wonder if anything works, but my mom tells me all the time how i am doing (sometmes it takes a third party-to see outside ourselves) and this stuff has been way more of a benefit than anything else.
best of luck to you and God Bless :)
Posted by rskontos on October 1, 2007, at 11:17:57
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - i take it » rskontos, posted by lindka on October 1, 2007, at 10:28:36
Thanks Lindka, I am really feeling bad so I will take it. You are right I was feeling good when I quit and I quit therapy because I felt like I had everything handled and now I can't do anything. I can't clean my house, work or do anything. I feel like a great big nothing. Oh I am wrong I can cry.
Posted by brooke484 on October 1, 2007, at 11:19:02
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - i take it » rskontos, posted by lindka on October 1, 2007, at 10:28:36
Do you also use Nordic Naturals?
Posted by lindka on October 1, 2007, at 11:35:36
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - i take it - lindka, posted by brooke484 on October 1, 2007, at 11:19:02
yes here is a link to what I use:
https://www.nordicnaturals.com/direct/prodsummary.asp?ID=14
hope this helps
Posted by lindka on October 1, 2007, at 11:47:44
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - i take it, posted by rskontos on October 1, 2007, at 11:17:57
rskontos,
you are not a “nothing”. You are a person with a plan and a purpose in this world, who happens to have a disorder that can be debilitating...yet...I bet you are smart and creative!! (BP might take from us but it gives us some pretty awesome traits too) Your willingness to seek out treatment means you do have power over it. it doesn’t matter how many times you fall, what matters is that you keep getting back up and trying...listen to me I sound like a hallmark card ;) get back on the fish oil and see what happens. It can’t hurt you, just make that your first step.
lindka
Posted by rskontos on October 1, 2007, at 13:18:57
In reply to Re: Fish Oil - i take it » rskontos, posted by lindka on October 1, 2007, at 11:47:44
Well thanks for the Hallmark card I n eed it and the laugh because I have been crying today so you made my day. And I too take the nordic naturals as sometimes I can't tell if a ? is being directed at me or not, and I am on topamx or stupidomax. Lindka, again thanks for the pep talk as I do need it today. I am feeling pretty low but after I got your first post I went and pop my fish oil and I hope in two weeks maybe more as I take a higher dose I will feel better. :)
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