![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 12:21:22
It's been about 3 1/2 years since I made my gut wrenching breakthrough in therapy. It became apparent to me at the age of 30 that I had never grieved over my father's passing at the age of 7. I had alot of hope when I came through that experience. The great secret that my mind wouldn't let me in on was finally out in the open. I hoped that my healing would begin and progress rapidly... Well, this isn't what exactly happened. My pain got 10 times worse, and to this day I still feel the grief and pain of an event that happened over 25 years ago.
I guess my questions for babblers are: Has anyone experienced a no doubt about it breakthrough? What happened next? Did your spirit become free and your depression lifted? Did things get worse like they did for me? And finally, what happened to your outlook on life? I have always had hope that I could take on this demon, but it's become more than anything I could have bargained for.
Posted by Noa on May 17, 2000, at 13:02:42
In reply to Breaking through the trauma, posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 12:21:22
I think I have had "breakthroughs" but no single one that fulfills that wish that such a breakthrough would resolve all the feelings. I just think it doesn't work that way or if it does, it is rare. I think the psychological component, like in unresolved grief, for example, is just part of the picture. Our brains go through changes when we experience trauma, and those changes take on a life of their own. And that is in addition to whatever biological predispositions we come into the world with, for depression, anxiety, or whatever.
So, to expect that a breakthrough in insight and understanding one's psychological history and its impact , to alone change our current emotional functioning might be unrealistic. We may need to look to other strategies, either strategies for coping more effectively, or medications, etc., to help address the problems we now have.
Posted by Greg on May 17, 2000, at 13:19:39
In reply to Breaking through the trauma, posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 12:21:22
Tom,
Before I give a reply, I'd like to ask a question... Do you remember what your relationship with your Dad was like when you were 7? Good, bad, none of the above?
Posted by kellyR. on May 17, 2000, at 18:54:42
In reply to Breaking through the trauma, posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 12:21:22
> It's been about 3 1/2 years since I made my gut wrenching breakthrough in therapy. It became apparent to me at the age of 30 that I had never grieved over my father's passing at the age of 7. I had alot of hope when I came through that experience. The great secret that my mind wouldn't let me in on was finally out in the open. I hoped that my healing would begin and progress rapidly... Well, this isn't what exactly happened. My pain got 10 times worse, and to this day I still feel the grief and pain of an event that happened over 25 years ago.
>
> I guess my questions for babblers are: Has anyone experienced a no doubt about it breakthrough? What happened next? Did your spirit become free and your depression lifted? Did things get worse like they did for me? And finally, what happened to your outlook on life? I have always had hope that I could take on this demon, but it's become more than anything I could have bargained for.'STAGES OF BEREAVEMENT'
The first is shock- a feeling of numbness & unreality. This is followed by stages of protest & yearning, in which bereaved persons resent the loss of their loved one & fantasize about the loved one's return. These reactions are often followed by deep despair, which can last a year or more-a period when bereaved persons feel that life is not worth livivg. Finally, bereaved persons usually enter a state of detachment & recovery, in which they separate themselves psychologically from the loved person who has died & go on w/ their lives. Even during this stages, however,painful bouts of grieving may recur on Birthdays,anniversaries,& other occasions that remind the bereaved person of his loss.
Posted by Todd on May 17, 2000, at 19:21:25
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma, posted by Greg on May 17, 2000, at 13:19:39
Hey there, Tom. I feel compelled to respond to your post because I too have had a couple of major breakthroughs in my life. After a long, low period, I came to my first "enlightening." I thought to myself, "Wow, this is it. I'm OK now, and I'll always be safe." I felt that way for a long time, until the next crisis hit many years later like a tidal wave. So much for safety. This crisis was even worse than the first one. Throughout it all, I knew there was no rational reason to be feeling the way I did, yet it hurt worse than anything I had ever experienced before. But I also held onto the knowing, or at the time I should say hoping, that I was strong and would weather it through and come to an even deeper understanding of myself. Just when I thought the pain couldn't get any worse, I hit the next breakthrough. It was ten times more significant than the first one, and gave me more insight than I ever thought possible. But with that breakthrough came a more important message that I would like to share with you: There Are No Safe Places!
I really believe that our depressions are caused by our subconscious ways of trying to keep ourselves safe. Those subconscious methods, to use an overly cliched term, are the ways of our inner child. The way we conducted ourselves as small children to create happiness in our lives become indelibly imprinted in our psyche and govern our adult behavior on a subconscious level until we discover the patterns and make the subconscious conscious. The inner child will always remain, but once we understand the inner child and his motives, we can always choose a different course of action. The fact that you are depressed, can't stand it, and wonder why is a sign that you are ready to go deeper.
Your last breakthrough revealed the fact that you lost your father at the age of 7 and never had time to grieve. Way to go, Tom! That's a real big one. I am sure you suffered a lot of pain to get to that realization. Inner child issues go a lot deeper than that, though. They stem from perceived traumas that occur anywhere between birth and 4 or 5 years old. The child at these ages does not have a real understanding of his surroundings and does his best to compensate when a crisis arises. This is not to say that a small child is not intelligent. He finds out how to modify his behavior to keep himself safe and happy. And at the time, this program for happiness usually works just fine. It's just that the child sees the world through his limited vision and understanding which does not necessarily reflect the reality of the situation. As we grow older and start to understand what the world is really like and consciously develop an idea of how it should be, the inner child lurks in our subconscious, telling us how to react and behave and feel, as much as we try to fight it.
Tom, I would guess that before the age of 7, you did something that you were made to feel was terribly wrong. This is not to say that your father was a mean person, it's just that you as a child felt incredibly guilty. For whatever reason, you were denied your father's approval when you most wanted it, and hatched a plan to win his forgiveness and approval. You might have gotten subsequent approval, but the original transgression was never forgiven. He passed away before you could ever show him that you really were a good kid, and before he could give you the forgiveness that you sought. I would guess you have been carrying that guilt around all your life. It was never resolved.
That may sound a bit harsh, and I sincerely hope I don't offend you or the memory of your father by posting these paragraphs. I feel very deeply, the highs and the lows. Whoever feels deeply feels for all who live, and I hope I can be an inspiration to you to grit your teeth and dig deeper. Think back to childhood memories. Try to think of the really low moments. Think of ways you might have felt responsible for your parents not being happy. Kids take lots of things personally and feel guilt for things they haven't even done wrong, just because someone is not happy with them.
Even more importantly, look at things that make you uncomfortable as an adult and how you deal with them. If someone is angry with you, do you give in and do what they want? Do you pout until you get your way? Do you want to run away? Do you feel like crying? Just a few questions out of many you might ask yourself. Above all, LOVE yourself and respect yourself. With love for yourself and your peers as your HIGHEST goal, you'll start finding answers. And it will likely be tough as hell. Meeting your inner child is never an easy thing to do. You'll be going back to an incredibly painful part of your life, and it may well take all you've got.
With incredible suffering, though, eventually comes a great reward. You can make peace with your inner child, understand his motives, and realize that he never did anything wrong and really is a great kid. The old methods for "staying safe" will then become options. You will have the ability to choose your behavior consciously without your inner child being in the driver's seat. It doesn't make life any less of a challenge afterwards, and it doesn't make you safe. But it gives you the satisfaction of knowing that no matter what comes along, YOU are in control, and YOU can deal with it. You'll find that you are your own person and can put your needs first and foremost without obligation to anyone else. That, I believe, is a real step towards creating your own happiness.
If you want to know about my inner child issues, go back to the April 20 archive and look in the thread entitled "Re: Lunatic Lyrical Aside" and read my posting "To Mark H." You'll see where I am coming from. Peace and love, Tom, and Godspeed on your path. You're exactly where you need to be.
Posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 21:04:40
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma, posted by Greg on May 17, 2000, at 13:19:39
> Tom,
> Before I give a reply, I'd like to ask a question... Do you remember what your relationship with your Dad was like when you were 7? Good, bad, none of the above?Greg,
My father was the most important person in my life. I can't begin to explain how much I loved him... Anyway, after about the age of 9 I couldn't remember a thing about my father, even though it had only been two short years after he died. All the memories I have about him now have come back in the last 3 1/2 years. My father and I were extremely close. I was raised in a very ethnic (Greek) family. The one thing about Greek men is that they are all very stoic. So that's the route I took; I wasn't going to be hurt by his death even though it overwhelmed me. As I've recently learned that is a recipe for disaster for a young boy with a developing mind...
Tom
Posted by Cindy W on May 17, 2000, at 21:44:59
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma - to Greg, posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 21:04:40
> > Tom,
> > Before I give a reply, I'd like to ask a question... Do you remember what your relationship with your Dad was like when you were 7? Good, bad, none of the above?
>
> Greg,
>
> My father was the most important person in my life. I can't begin to explain how much I loved him... Anyway, after about the age of 9 I couldn't remember a thing about my father, even though it had only been two short years after he died. All the memories I have about him now have come back in the last 3 1/2 years. My father and I were extremely close. I was raised in a very ethnic (Greek) family. The one thing about Greek men is that they are all very stoic. So that's the route I took; I wasn't going to be hurt by his death even though it overwhelmed me. As I've recently learned that is a recipe for disaster for a young boy with a developing mind...
>
> Tom
Tom, I had a "breakthrough" when I was first in therapy, at age 2l in college. Back then, I used to never smile (to hide my overlapping front teeth; now capped) and let my hair cover my face, and almost had panic attacks around people (e.g., in line at the grocery, felt everyone was staring at me because I was ugly; crawled under a table once in a class to "hide"). The breakthrough was that my therapist asked me to check out whether people were looking at me, or whether they were just doing their own thing and not really even looking at me. I was pleasantly surprised to find that they were not even paying any attention to me. That was the start of realizing that other people weren't so bad (despite what I learned in my family home). Without that breakthrough, I think I would have ended up schizophrenic or something. Am waiting for a "breakthrough" in my current therapy; don't know what this will entail, yet.--Cindy W
Posted by bob on May 17, 2000, at 23:15:06
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma - to Greg, posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 21:04:40
> ... The one thing about Greek men is that they are all very stoic. So that's the route I took; I wasn't going to be hurt by his death even though it overwhelmed me. As I've recently learned that is a recipe for disaster for a young boy with a developing mind...
Boy howdy can I relate to that, Tom. My therapist practically starts cursing every time I pull one of my "just stick your Irish chin out and take it like a man" routines I learned from my dad! A big part of my self-loathing has come from realizing just how much, in spite of my best efforts, I have become my father.Obviously, he didn't die on me when I was young. His name is Bernard. His father's name was Bernard. And his first son's name was Bernard. His past, present, and future. And on August 17, 1970, his oldest son and his father drowned in Lake Huron. My father and my next oldest brother held onto the keel of a capsized boat through a series of storms, over 18 hours in all, before they were rescued. Waiting for my father was my mother, who blamed him for my oldest brother's death and hated him thereafter. My family basically just died, whether our bodies were still moving around or not. And this all happened when I was 8.
I know about the memory blanks. I remember conversations with friends in high school, trying to remember their earliest memories -- and I couldn't speak up because I could recall next to nothing of my life before the accident. Even now, I have a difficult time remembering what my life was like prior to about 14 or so.
I also know about breakthroughs. Since I had spent most of junior high and high school alone trying to figure out what was wrong with me, when I finally got some counseling it came rather quickly and was completely devastating. Given the state of student mental health care, I got bounced from one short-term counseling program to another, playing lab rat for various clinical psych and social work graduate students. But even though I was suicidal, the University of Michigan had determined I had exhausted all the regular channels for student services and that I was not a candidate for further, more in-depth services. Hell, the best they could manage after a failed suicide attempt was a referral to a private practice.
[that's why, Vesper, I can empathize so strongly with your experiences with those bastards at UCLA]
Tom, there are layers within layers within layers in this. There will never be any "normal" grieving process for you or me (sorry, kelly, but maybe your experience is different). I was stuck between breakthroughs for about ten years -- years in which I tried my best to put it all behind me and live the best life I could. But like Noa said, this infuses itself into all aspects of your life -- of how you see the world, of how you react to it.
If a "final" breakthrough ever comes, I imagine it will be one so subtle that you'll never notice until someone else points it out. That'll be because you'll have made so many other breakthroughs, so many other steps towards healing, that instead of them building to one giant leap, all you'll be left with in the end are small steps.
The breakthrough I made my first senior year in college almost cost me my life. But in terms of its relationship to the core, to the heart of the matter, it was minor. An important first step, but rather small. I recently made what I believe to be my own breakthrough to the core. I did this during my worst depressive episode in ten years or more. If I had realized back then, that first time, what I know now ... there's a cold clarity of mind through which I know I would have found a much more effective, dramatic, and immediate means of killing myself than that which I had used. It took 17 years or so since that first breakthrough, but my mind finally gave up perhaps my most hideous secret to my conscious self.
Maybe the reason I could finally penetrate to that core -- an idea which has always terrified me -- was because there *is* a safe place. Or more than one. I think I have two: my therapist's office, and right here in Babbleland.
I'm glad I don't really have to break the news to you (since Noa did that already) but I'm here to drive the point home: that breakthrough of yours was probably more of a beginning than a conclusion. The more you hold onto the hope that it was supposed to be your release, your "Get Out of Jail Free" card, the more you'll block your chance for moving onto the next step.
Yes, the news gets "worse". I think another reason I made this last breakthrough was my acceptance that it would NOT provide a final release from all the pain. What I am hoping it will provide, in the next months as I come to understand it better, is some direction for finding my way out of the core of my pain so I can heal the deepest wounds first, someday to arrive at the surface with some confidence that there is nothing left underneath to continue bleeding or to fester.
What I find hardest to accomplish is to accept in my heart that I'm not the 8 year-old boy to whom this first happened. Many of my injuries, most of the behavioral patterns that keep me where I am, developed long after that. I wonder if that's how you feel when the pain starts to overwhelm you -- that you've never really grown past being 7 years old.
You see, my life has moved on without me and it will continue to do so, whether I feel I deserve it to or not.
How are you doing with survivor guilt, Tom? When I need some cathartic release from that particular demon, I like to turn my amp up to 11 and put on "I'm Still Alive" by Pearl Jam. Are you familiar with the lyrics? How about:
"Is something wrong?" she said
Of course there is
"You're still alive" she said
but do I deserve to be?
Is that the question?
and if so, who answers?The thing is, its not the question. No one deserves to be alive. If we are, then we are. Accepting that simple truth can be one of the most difficult, heart-rending things someone with survivor guilt can ever do. It means someone is irretrievably gone, and it isn't you. And that means that you need to find some way to start living again, rather than being stuck forever in that last awful moment.
So, whatever I may have learned, particularly in the last four months, I still find it difficult getting myself to go to bed, no matter how tired I am, because going to sleep means waking up, and waking up means that it's another day ... and that is simply the worst thing that can happen. I can't go to bed because tomorrow is another day.
Personally, I think that opening your eyes and getting out of bed can be the greatest act of courage one could ever hope to accomplish.
Well, Tom, you can see you've touched a nerve with at least ONE person here and I'm starting to ramble. If some of it sounds familiar, maybe there'll be some comfort in knowing you're not alone.
be well,
bob
Posted by Cindy W on May 17, 2000, at 23:43:24
In reply to The trauma within the trauma, posted by bob on May 17, 2000, at 23:15:06
> So, whatever I may have learned, particularly in the last four months, I still find it difficult getting myself to go to bed, no matter how tired I am, because going to sleep means waking up, and waking up means that it's another day ... and that is simply the worst thing that can happen. I can't go to bed because tomorrow is another day.
>
> Personally, I think that opening your eyes and getting out of bed can be the greatest act of courage one could ever hope to accomplish.
>
> Well, Tom, you can see you've touched a nerve with at least ONE person here and I'm starting to ramble. If some of it sounds familiar, maybe there'll be some comfort in knowing you're not alone.
>
> be well,
> bobBob, you really have a gift with words. Your post was poignant. I can't relate to losing my father (yet), but have spent a lot of time trying to relieve childhood traumas instead of continuing to relive them. Also, I could really relate to your statement about not wanting to go to sleep, because it leads to getting up the next day. That's the hardest thing I do all day, get up to face another day!--Cindy W
Posted by Noa on May 18, 2000, at 8:57:27
In reply to The trauma within the trauma, posted by bob on May 17, 2000, at 23:15:06
>Personally, I think that opening your eyes and getting out of bed can be the greatest act of courage one could ever hope to accomplish.
I think the biggest breakthrough of all is probably the accepting the disillusioning idea that there is no real breakthrough. Getting better probably means accepting ourtselves as the enigmas that we are, and learning to live without "knowing" why, or without finding the answers we think we need.
Posted by Noa on May 19, 2000, at 16:10:09
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma - to Greg, posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 21:04:40
How ya doin today, Tom?
Posted by Todd on May 20, 2000, at 11:46:40
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma - to Greg, posted by Noa on May 19, 2000, at 16:10:09
To echo Noa, how are you, Tom? Just wanted to add one more thought - being depressed is a good thing. Embrace your pain, don't run from it. I would say that the more we try to find instant fixes to take away our depression, the further we get from real healing. How can we heal without feeling our pain fully? It's a tough road, but it's a road you have chosen to take.
I used to think about all the "other" people who seem so "happy" with their lives. I would ask myself why they were so happy, and how come I am so depressed. But the more I live, experience, and grow, the more I realize that these people are not really happy at all. They live in a fantasy land of their own construct, projecting all of their own weaknesses onto everyone else without even a clue that perhaps the problem lies within them. They're blissfully ignorant. Do you know why? They're unwilling and maybe unable to face themselves. If they even began to contemplate the thoughts that we do and search for deeper meaning, their "happy" world would collapse around them and they would become horribly depressed. So, to avoid pain and suffering, they live in denial and project their problems onto the rest of the world and we have to put up with it. They are weak. Not to say that is bad, because in time reality will catch up with them and they will be forced to confront themselves. It's just a matter of fact - they choose to remain shallow because the depths are far too frightening for them to contemplate, let alone dive into.
You're so much stronger than most people, Tom. By allowing yourself to feel all of this garbage, you're miles ahead on the road to self-understanding and true happiness. Always remember that. You have the guts and determination to face your dark side and shine some light into it. That's a heck of a lot more than most people can say. Feel your pain fully. You know what your destination is, and we are all here to support you as you continue on. YOU ARE STRONGER than your depression, and if you ever become disenchanted with that notion, we are here to help. Peace and love.
Posted by JennyR on May 20, 2000, at 21:36:06
In reply to Breaking through the trauma, posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 12:21:22
I had a breakthrough. I never cried my entire adult life (I'm 42). I never knew why - thought I just wasn't wired that way. I was basically unable to feel anything but anger. Then after about 6 months of therapy, one night when I was trying to get to sleep I remembered that when I was little my mother used to say "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about." I guess I taught myself to not cry, and to not feel my feelings. During the next year of therapy, thing we would talk about would cause things to well up in me to where I was on the verge of being on the verge of crying. Then it started to break through a little. And now I've become a much more emotional person and I do cry. Mostly during therapy sessions - I guess that's where I feel the safest emotionally.
Posted by bob on May 20, 2000, at 22:14:11
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma, posted by JennyR on May 20, 2000, at 21:36:06
I think a good point in JennyR's post is something that can be easily overlooked. Making a breakthrough is NOT enough. You have to DO something with that breakthrough. You have to make use of it. It can be a very difficult thing to do, since sometimes these breakthroughs are quite traumatic ... but a breakthrough is a new beginning and not a goal or endpoint.
my two cents
bob
Posted by Noa on May 21, 2000, at 15:40:35
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma, posted by bob on May 20, 2000, at 22:14:11
> I think a good point in JennyR's post is something that can be easily overlooked. Making a breakthrough is NOT enough. You have to DO something with that breakthrough. You have to make use of it. It can be a very difficult thing to do, since sometimes these breakthroughs are quite traumatic ...
and, having a breakthrough when you are ready for and and ready to put the new insight to good use is wonderful. Sometimes the breakthroughs come before you are ready, in which case it can be overwhelming, and the work is then about patching you up and building you up enough to bear the emotions from the breakthrough and figure out how to use it, as bob said.
Posted by Mommy to an Angel! on May 21, 2000, at 16:41:53
In reply to Breaking through the trauma, posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 12:21:22
In my case, my healing (or flight to sanity as my pdoc called it) happened with action, not thought. I was sexually abused as a child and raped in grad school. I had represed the memories and when they started comming back -- that's when all the trouble started. Before I had memories, my life seemed normal on the outside. I had a good job, got married, bought a house... did every day normal things. But I had a zillion minor medical problems. Constent headaches, stomach problems, consent colds.... my body was my own worst enemy. I started to remember my childhood dreams. Then I started therapy and my whole life fell apart. I became more depressed than I thought possible.
Then one day (after about 3 - 4 years) of therapy, I was pushed to the breaking point. I had been a doormat one time too many. I stood up and I said, "You can't do this to me!" and I didn't let the other person take advange of me! I stood my ground!
Almost within seconds my symptoms went away. I felt great both phsyically and mentally. It was the most amazing experence of my life.
Since then, I've had some "normal" blue days and some disappointments. But nothing compared to the old days!
I think the key to mental health is action.
Regards
Posted by Tom on May 21, 2000, at 21:35:12
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma, posted by Todd on May 17, 2000, at 19:21:25
Thank you Todd. I've read this post and the post further down (& the post "To Mark H") and am very appreciative for your responses. I do agree with just about everything you have to say. There was a time when I had no idea what you were talking about, but I've grown so much in these last couple of years that my sense of others and their suffering has grown immensly.
I was particularly interested in your theory of the subconscious and it's role in depression. I firmly believe that all people who suffer from this painful disorder have something lurking in the unexplored parts of their psyche. It sometimes takes hard work to find this material and face up to it. In my case it took 20 years to work up enough courage to face my pain. After I went into therapy it took about 4 months to come to the realization that I never grieved as a child. And like you said, I had no real understanding of my surroundings and what death even meant when I was 7. It's only become clear recently. As I go through this very painful time in my life I do often wonder what it all means. Am I doomed to suffer forever? How much pain can one person endure? I hope their is a great reward at the end of this path... I certainly feel I deserve something for fighting the good fight.
I honestly used to believe that there were maybe 5 people on the face of the earth that were going through what I was going through. I now know that's not true... Last but not least, what should I do about that inner child that had been hiding inside of me all these years? Maybe I can make that boy and this man come to an understanding?
Thanks again friend.
Tom
> Hey there, Tom. I feel compelled to respond to your post because I too have had a couple of major breakthroughs in my life. After a long, low period, I came to my first "enlightening." I thought to myself, "Wow, this is it. I'm OK now, and I'll always be safe." I felt that way for a long time, until the next crisis hit many years later like a tidal wave. So much for safety. This crisis was even worse than the first one. Throughout it all, I knew there was no rational reason to be feeling the way I did, yet it hurt worse than anything I had ever experienced before. But I also held onto the knowing, or at the time I should say hoping, that I was strong and would weather it through and come to an even deeper understanding of myself. Just when I thought the pain couldn't get any worse, I hit the next breakthrough. It was ten times more significant than the first one, and gave me more insight than I ever thought possible. But with that breakthrough came a more important message that I would like to share with you: There Are No Safe Places!
>
> I really believe that our depressions are caused by our subconscious ways of trying to keep ourselves safe. Those subconscious methods, to use an overly cliched term, are the ways of our inner child. The way we conducted ourselves as small children to create happiness in our lives become indelibly imprinted in our psyche and govern our adult behavior on a subconscious level until we discover the patterns and make the subconscious conscious. The inner child will always remain, but once we understand the inner child and his motives, we can always choose a different course of action. The fact that you are depressed, can't stand it, and wonder why is a sign that you are ready to go deeper.
>
> Your last breakthrough revealed the fact that you lost your father at the age of 7 and never had time to grieve. Way to go, Tom! That's a real big one. I am sure you suffered a lot of pain to get to that realization. Inner child issues go a lot deeper than that, though. They stem from perceived traumas that occur anywhere between birth and 4 or 5 years old. The child at these ages does not have a real understanding of his surroundings and does his best to compensate when a crisis arises. This is not to say that a small child is not intelligent. He finds out how to modify his behavior to keep himself safe and happy. And at the time, this program for happiness usually works just fine. It's just that the child sees the world through his limited vision and understanding which does not necessarily reflect the reality of the situation. As we grow older and start to understand what the world is really like and consciously develop an idea of how it should be, the inner child lurks in our subconscious, telling us how to react and behave and feel, as much as we try to fight it.
>
> Tom, I would guess that before the age of 7, you did something that you were made to feel was terribly wrong. This is not to say that your father was a mean person, it's just that you as a child felt incredibly guilty. For whatever reason, you were denied your father's approval when you most wanted it, and hatched a plan to win his forgiveness and approval. You might have gotten subsequent approval, but the original transgression was never forgiven. He passed away before you could ever show him that you really were a good kid, and before he could give you the forgiveness that you sought. I would guess you have been carrying that guilt around all your life. It was never resolved.
>
> That may sound a bit harsh, and I sincerely hope I don't offend you or the memory of your father by posting these paragraphs. I feel very deeply, the highs and the lows. Whoever feels deeply feels for all who live, and I hope I can be an inspiration to you to grit your teeth and dig deeper. Think back to childhood memories. Try to think of the really low moments. Think of ways you might have felt responsible for your parents not being happy. Kids take lots of things personally and feel guilt for things they haven't even done wrong, just because someone is not happy with them.
>
> Even more importantly, look at things that make you uncomfortable as an adult and how you deal with them. If someone is angry with you, do you give in and do what they want? Do you pout until you get your way? Do you want to run away? Do you feel like crying? Just a few questions out of many you might ask yourself. Above all, LOVE yourself and respect yourself. With love for yourself and your peers as your HIGHEST goal, you'll start finding answers. And it will likely be tough as hell. Meeting your inner child is never an easy thing to do. You'll be going back to an incredibly painful part of your life, and it may well take all you've got.
>
> With incredible suffering, though, eventually comes a great reward. You can make peace with your inner child, understand his motives, and realize that he never did anything wrong and really is a great kid. The old methods for "staying safe" will then become options. You will have the ability to choose your behavior consciously without your inner child being in the driver's seat. It doesn't make life any less of a challenge afterwards, and it doesn't make you safe. But it gives you the satisfaction of knowing that no matter what comes along, YOU are in control, and YOU can deal with it. You'll find that you are your own person and can put your needs first and foremost without obligation to anyone else. That, I believe, is a real step towards creating your own happiness.
>
> If you want to know about my inner child issues, go back to the April 20 archive and look in the thread entitled "Re: Lunatic Lyrical Aside" and read my posting "To Mark H." You'll see where I am coming from. Peace and love, Tom, and Godspeed on your path. You're exactly where you need to be.
Posted by Tom on May 21, 2000, at 22:02:44
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma - to Greg, posted by Noa on May 19, 2000, at 16:10:09
> How ya doin today, Tom?
I had an o.k day today Noa, thank you for asking. I can't express how much I appreciate your responses to my post. I've seen the suffering you've endured in your posts. You are kind and brave soul.
This board has come to mean alot to me. I wasn't sure why I kept coming back here. Some people come here to get medical advice, give medical advice or just help someone out. I've come to the conclusion that I'm here to experience something along the lines of group therapy. The more I can share with people like yourself the better off I'll be.
Thanks again Noa. Talk (Babble?) to you again soon.
Posted by kellyR. on May 22, 2000, at 20:23:43
In reply to Breaking through the trauma, posted by Tom on May 17, 2000, at 12:21:22
> It's been about 3 1/2 years since I made my gut wrenching breakthrough in therapy. It became apparent to me at the age of 30 that I had never grieved over my father's passing at the age of 7. I had alot of hope when I came through that experience. The great secret that my mind wouldn't let me in on was finally out in the open. I hoped that my healing would begin and progress rapidly... Well, this isn't what exactly happened. My pain got 10 times worse, and to this day I still feel the grief and pain of an event that happened over 25 years ago.
>
> I guess my questions for babblers are: Has anyone experienced a no doubt about it breakthrough? What happened next? Did your spirit become free and your depression lifted? Did things get worse like they did for me? And finally, what happened to your outlook on life? I have always had hope that I could take on this demon, but it's become more than anything I could have bargained for.
DO NOT STAND BY MY GRAVE AND WEEP.
I AM NOT THERE. I DO NOT SLEEP
I AM A THOUSAND WINDS THAT BLOW
I AM A DIAMOND GLINT ON SNOW
I AM THE SUNLIGHT ON RIPENED GRAIN
I AM THE GENTLE AUTUMN RAIN.
WHEN YOU AWAKE IN THE MORNING HUSH
I AM THE SWIFT UPLIFTING RUSH
OF QUIET BIRDS IN CIRCLING FLIGHT
I AM THE SOFT STARSHINE AT NIGHT
DO NOT STAND BY MY GRAVE AND CRY
I AM NOT THERE...I DID NOT DIE.
Posted by Noa on May 25, 2000, at 8:27:14
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma, posted by kellyR. on May 22, 2000, at 20:23:43
Kelly,
How are you these days?
Posted by Todd on May 27, 2000, at 11:51:35
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma - To Todd, posted by Tom on May 21, 2000, at 21:35:12
Hey, Tom. Just a few thoughts on the inner child in response to your last post. I think your statement about having that boy and man come to some kind of understanding is right on the money. For I am told that the inner child can never be erased, nor never "grows up." It is forever a part of us, and the more we understand him and integrate him into our conscious, the more we can lead fuller, happier, and more personally rewarding lives. We and our inner children must work in concert, rather than being at odds with each other.
How to meet the inner child? Well, when you're ready, you will. From your responses here, it sounds like you have been training well for a long time, gathering the strength to go deeper. If you're suffering right now, remember to try not to run from your pain. Keep your sense of humor, and let your pain be a companion. Think about what you do with unexpected company. You didn't invite them, and would be much happier without them there. But while they are there, you might as well laugh about it and have as much of a good time as you can. Same thing with depression. You can't ignore it, but you can separate from it enough to know that you are stronger. Life may suck, but there's a very strong and healthy part of you that knows that there is a gift hidden in there somewhere. Stay determined, laugh at yourself, and stay on track.
In the meantime, what is it that you REALLY want right now, Tom? What is it that you really feel you need, that somehow seems out of reach? GO for it, and do WHATEVER it takes to get it. If you encounter fear along the way, CONFRONT it at all costs. No matter how much it might frighten you. It's only in confronting our fears that they can be exposed and done away with. You deserve everything you want, Tom. You might not GET everything you want, but indeed, you have to fight the good fight. It's up to you to make it happen. Peace and love.
Posted by Todd on May 27, 2000, at 11:58:42
In reply to Re: Breaking through the trauma - To Todd, posted by Todd on May 27, 2000, at 11:51:35
The above post is for you, Tom. Not to me. hahaha. Have a great weekend.
Todd
This is the end of the thread.
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