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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sarah on February 29, 2000, at 13:12:04
I am on Adderall and have the typical insomnia. Though, not terrible, can wear me down by the end of the week. I have been researching sleeping aids, but have come up empty! I was given a script of Remeron, but it just wipes me out too badly in the mornings, even taken early the night before. Does anyone have a suggestion? I have my shrink appt in a few hours, so any advice now would be greatly appreciated! I don't want any tetra or triciclic (sp) drugs or anything like those that have the "hangover" effect. Just something to take the edge off in the evenings so I can actually lie down and sleep, not lay there for two hours! Thanks!
Posted by CarolAnn on February 29, 2000, at 15:11:20
In reply to Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Sarah on February 29, 2000, at 13:12:04
Sarah, have you tried benedryl? It's an antihistamine, but it is also the same ingredient that is in most of the over-the-counter sleep aids. I find the standard dose is just enough to fall asleep on without morning grogginess.
Or, there is a new prescription sleep aid out, can't remember the name, but the main claim is that unlike others, this stuff wears off in four hours. So, it's good if your problem is "getting" to sleep rather than "staying" asleep. Good luck! CarolAnn
Posted by Sarah on February 29, 2000, at 15:38:33
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by CarolAnn on February 29, 2000, at 15:11:20
CarolAnn, Yes, I have tried it, but it seems to mess with my sleep patterns too much. Once I get to sleep, I have noooo trouble staying that way, except of course for my husbands snoring!! (he had suggested the benedryl, also) Any clues for snoring husbands? :-)
Posted by Cam W. on February 29, 2000, at 15:51:34
In reply to Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Sarah on February 29, 2000, at 13:12:04
Sarah - I think the sleeping pill Carol Ann was taking about is Imovane (zopiclone). It is basically non-addictive (but can be abused). Another prescription medication is Desyrel (trazodone) at low doses is a good hypnotic with little chance of 'hangover effect'. It is an antidepressant, at much higher doses. Non-prescription sedative/hypnotics are chamomille (tea), valerian, or kava kava. You will probably only need a sedative until your body adjusts to the ADDeral (hopefully). Used short term, the herbs mentioned are safe and effective. Ask your doctor about these first, before trying them. Good luck - Cam W.
Posted by Sarah on February 29, 2000, at 15:57:02
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Cam W. on February 29, 2000, at 15:51:34
>
> Sarah - I think the sleeping pill Carol Ann was taking about is Imovane (zopiclone). It is basically non-addictive (but can be abused). Another prescription medication is Desyrel (trazodone) at low doses is a good hypnotic with little chance of 'hangover effect'. It is an antidepressant, at much higher doses. Non-prescription sedative/hypnotics are chamomille (tea), valerian, or kava kava. You will probably only need a sedative until your body adjusts to the ADDeral (hopefully). Used short term, the herbs mentioned are safe and effective. Ask your doctor about these first, before trying them. Good luck - Cam W.Thanks, Cam. I checked my insurance coverage list and it is not a preferred drug. AUGH!! Oh, well! (insurance seems to be a year behind!) Thanks for the info!
Posted by dove on February 29, 2000, at 18:58:16
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Sarah on February 29, 2000, at 15:57:02
I'm also an Adderall taker, and at one time an Adderall and Wellbutrin taker, so I know about struggling to fall asleep. Three things have proven helpful.
One of the most helpful meds is sublingual Melatonin. Sublingual means it is the type that is dissolved under your tongue, not swallowed. Melatonin in this form can be taken in much smaller dosages, as in 0.5 mgs-2.5mgs, with little or no hangover effect in the morning. Some people wake up with a headache or stiff neck, reducing the dosage should take care of that.
Two, Elavil (Amitriptyline) can really help, and I know you're thinking hangover effect in the morning, but even 50mgs can really help balance the Adderall. I have also found that my sleep is much better in quality with the Amitriptyline.
Third, this is a personal recommendation that hasn't been tried all that long so if I am off on this one, someone speak up. Serzone, seems to calm me down, and I know I've read other people's experiences with this med and it definitely didn't calm them down. Anyone try the Serzone while taking a Central Nervous System Stimulant?
I hope this helps a little.
dove
Posted by Noa on February 29, 2000, at 19:50:22
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by dove on February 29, 2000, at 18:58:16
Dove, Serzone is my sleep medicine. For me it is mostly the effexor, not the ritalin that causes difficulty sleeping. Serzone was added to my cocktail both to augment the AD effects of my meds, and as a sleep aid. It is sedating for me. Initially, I noticed I had to take the dose at dinner time for it to help me sleep by bedtime, and to wear off by morning. Now, with the lithium, which seems to potentiate its actions, I take the Serzone about an hour before bed, and it is more intensely sedating with the lithium, too.
Before the serzone, I used trazodone, in small doses of 25 to 50 mg., taken before bedtime, for sleep. I found trazodone to be quick acting and intensely sedating, but it definitely wore off by morning.
Posted by Carter on February 29, 2000, at 20:38:11
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Noa on February 29, 2000, at 19:50:22
Noa- for how long have you been on the same daily dose of serzone?
thanks,
Carter
Posted by Noa on February 29, 2000, at 21:21:56
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Carter on February 29, 2000, at 20:38:11
Carter, I started Serzone in the summer, and was on 150 for a few months, then increased to 225, which is my current dose. Probably on this since late November.
The first month was hard--felt very emotional, agitated, also groggy, with poor balance. Then all of those things calmed down.
Posted by Sarah on February 29, 2000, at 22:19:55
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Noa on February 29, 2000, at 21:21:56
> Carter, I started Serzone in the summer, and was on 150 for a few months, then increased to 225, which is my current dose. Probably on this since late November.
>
> The first month was hard--felt very emotional, agitated, also groggy, with poor balance. Then all of those things calmed down.Thank you all so much, my shrink gave me 30mgs of Trazadone for sleep. I just poped one, so we will see... He said if that dose is too much try 15. Actually, shouda started with that dose...duh! :-) Thank you all again!
Posted by Sarah, again... on February 29, 2000, at 22:39:31
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Sarah on February 29, 2000, at 22:19:55
> > Carter, I started Serzone in the summer, and was on 150 for a few months, then increased to 225, which is my current dose. Probably on this since late November.
> >
> > The first month was hard--felt very emotional, agitated, also groggy, with poor balance. Then all of those things calmed down.
>
>
>
> Thank you all so much, my shrink gave me 30mgs of Trazadone for sleep. I just poped one, so we will see... He said if that dose is too much try 15. Actually, shouda started with that dose...duh! :-) Thank you all again!
I'm just chock full of questions today! I was just doing my usual research on my new med and it didn't say what class trazadone is in... Anyone know?? And by the way, it was 50mgs, not 30... I guess my vision is next to go! :-)
Posted by Cam W. on February 29, 2000, at 22:54:12
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Sarah, again... on February 29, 2000, at 22:39:31
Sarah - Trazodone, for want of a better word, is called an atypical antidepressant. This is because when it was released it was unlike any of the MAOIs or TCAs that were currently available. It is now categorized with Serzone (an SSRI with 5-HT2 blockade), as they have similar structures. Trazodone's antidepressant effects are generally seen at doses of 450-600mg daily (divided). At this dose it causes a lot of sedation and dry mouth, so for years trazodone was a drug looking for an indication. It has found a place in medicine, as a hypnotic (sleeping pill), at low doses (25-100mg). Trazodone is now a hypnotic of choice in the elderly who are sensitive to other hypnotics (benzodiazepines, chloral hydrate, zopiclone, etc). Hope this helps - Cam W.
Posted by Sarah on March 1, 2000, at 12:17:47
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Cam W. on February 29, 2000, at 22:54:12
>
> Sarah - Trazodone, for want of a better word, is called an atypical antidepressant. This is because when it was released it was unlike any of the MAOIs or TCAs that were currently available. It is now categorized with Serzone (an SSRI with 5-HT2 blockade), as they have similar structures. Trazodone's antidepressant effects are generally seen at doses of 450-600mg daily (divided). At this dose it causes a lot of sedation and dry mouth, so for years trazodone was a drug looking for an indication. It has found a place in medicine, as a hypnotic (sleeping pill), at low doses (25-100mg). Trazodone is now a hypnotic of choice in the elderly who are sensitive to other hypnotics (benzodiazepines, chloral hydrate, zopiclone, etc). Hope this helps - Cam W.Thanks Cam... Well, I took the 50mgs last night and was wiped out this morning...I will try 25 tonight. If that doesnt work, I guess I will let time fix the problem and take a day off the Adderall on the weekends to Make Sure I get a good nights sleep! I just tend to be very sensitive to any sedatives. I know eventually I will get used to my meds, I certainly know I am not giving up the Adderall, it has made such a wonderful difference in my life! BTW, Cam, what is your education? You seem to know so much about meds. Thank you all for your help!
Posted by Noa on March 1, 2000, at 15:20:58
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Sarah on March 1, 2000, at 12:17:47
Sarah,
I know someone who takes a quarter of a 50 mg pill of trazodone to counteract the insomnia caused by her SSRI. If you are sensitive to sedatives, maybe you only need a small amount, too.
Posted by Sarah on March 1, 2000, at 18:00:56
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Noa on March 1, 2000, at 15:20:58
> Sarah,
>
> I know someone who takes a quarter of a 50 mg pill of trazodone to counteract the insomnia caused by her SSRI. If you are sensitive to sedatives, maybe you only need a small amount, too.Thanks Noa, yes, I had given that a thought, also. I think I will try that this evening. I figure if that makes me feel awful in the morning I'll just give up on trying to find a sleep aid and just give myself time to get used to the adderall and take a day off from it on the weekends... How are you doing?
Posted by Cam W. on March 1, 2000, at 21:16:54
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Sarah on March 1, 2000, at 18:00:56
Sarah - I am a community/clinical pharmacist working with our local Mental Health Services. Cam W.
Posted by kazoo on March 2, 2000, at 1:05:32
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Cam W. on March 1, 2000, at 21:16:54
If doctors weren't so INTIMIDATED by the FDA and DEA, you could
get the GOOD STUFF; i.e., SECONAL, NEMBUTAL, TUINAL, PLACIDYL,
DORIDEN, CARBITRAL ... these will put your lights out.
Instead, they hand out this sissy stuff which doesn't work; i.e.,
antihistamines and/or weak benzos.
What a farce!
Kazoo
Posted by saint james on March 2, 2000, at 1:10:43
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by kazoo on March 2, 2000, at 1:05:32
> If doctors weren't so INTIMIDATED by the FDA and DEA, you could
> get the GOOD STUFF; i.e., SECONAL, NEMBUTAL, TUINAL, PLACIDYL,
> DORIDEN, CARBITRAL ... these will put your lights out.
> Instead, they hand out this sissy stuff which doesn't work; i.e.,
> antihistamines and/or weak benzos.
> What a farce!
> Kazoo
James here....Do you remember Edie Sedgwick ?
james
Posted by Sarah on March 2, 2000, at 10:45:20
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by saint james on March 2, 2000, at 1:10:43
> > If doctors weren't so INTIMIDATED by the FDA and DEA, you could
> > get the GOOD STUFF; i.e., SECONAL, NEMBUTAL, TUINAL, PLACIDYL,
> > DORIDEN, CARBITRAL ... these will put your lights out.
> > Instead, they hand out this sissy stuff which doesn't work; i.e.,
> > antihistamines and/or weak benzos.
> > What a farce!
> > Kazoo
>
>
> James here....
>
> Do you remember Edie Sedgwick ?
>
> james
Who was he?? I dont' really want the "good stuff", just something to take off the edge in the evenings. Last night I took nothing and actually fell asleep about an hour after I laid down! I feel great this morning! Yeah!! Thanks all! Sarah
Posted by kazoo on March 2, 2000, at 22:38:36
In reply to Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Sarah on February 29, 2000, at 13:12:04
> I am on Adderall and have the typical insomnia. Though, not terrible, can wear me down by the end of the week. I have been researching sleeping aids, but have come up empty! I was given a script of Remeron, but it just wipes me out too badly in the mornings, even taken early the night before. Does anyone have a suggestion? I have my shrink appt in a few hours, so any advice now would be greatly appreciated! I don't want any tetra or triciclic (sp) drugs or anything like those that have the "hangover" effect. Just something to take the edge off in the evenings so I can actually lie down and sleep, not lay there for two hours! Thanks!
> > > If doctors weren't so INTIMIDATED by the FDA and DEA, you could
> > > get the GOOD STUFF; i.e., SECONAL, NEMBUTAL, TUINAL, PLACIDYL,
> > > DORIDEN, CARBITRAL ... these will put your lights out.
> > > Instead, they hand out this sissy stuff which doesn't work; i.e.,
> > > antihistamines and/or weak benzos.
> > > What a farce!
> > > Kazoo
> >
> >
> > James here....
> >
> > Do you remember Edie Sedgwick ?
> >
> > james
>
>
>
>
> Who was he?? I dont' really want the "good stuff", just something to take off the edge in the evenings. Last night I took nothing and actually fell asleep about an hour after I laid down! I feel great this morning! Yeah!! Thanks all! Sarah
kazoo here ...Of course I remember Edie! Who doesn't?
But first, get the name right: it's Edie Sedgwick Post, whose prominent family lives in Sturbridge Village, MA. The Posts are tied in with the Post cereal company, and are, needless to say, extremely
rich. Little Edie was a spoiled rich bitch who, during the 1960s, rebelled against family tradition and decided to take up residence with Andy Warhol who abused and exploited her name and money. Warhol was
noted for doing such things to people he LIKED. Warhol's recreational drugs of choice were the AMPHETAMINES and HEROIN (cf. Lou Reed); i.e., none of the drugs I mentioned above. Ms. Post died in November 1971 at her home from a HEROIN overdose.
Recommended reading: "EDIE: An American Biography" by George Plimpton, Doubleday, NYJust to set the record straight ... Kazoo
Posted by saint james on March 2, 2000, at 22:48:37
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by kazoo on March 2, 2000, at 22:38:36
>
>
> kazoo here ...
>
> Of course I remember Edie! Who doesn't?
>
> But first, get the name right: it's Edie Sedgwick Post, whose prominent family lives in Sturbridge Village, MA. The Posts are tied in with the Post cereal company, and are, needless to say, extremely
> rich. Little Edie was a spoiled rich bitch who, during the 1960s, rebelled against family tradition and decided to take up residence with Andy Warhol who abused and exploited her name and money. Warhol was
> noted for doing such things to people he LIKED. Warhol's recreational drugs of choice were the AMPHETAMINES and HEROIN (cf. Lou Reed); i.e., none of the drugs I mentioned above. Ms. Post died in November 1971 at her home from a HEROIN overdose.
>
>
> Recommended reading: "EDIE: An American Biography" by George Plimpton, Doubleday, NY
>
> Just to set the record straight ... KazooJames here,,,
The Sedgwick's are pretty rich too, and crazy, Sedgwick is her maden name, she was married to Post for a few years at the end. My point here is that Edie was either on speed or downers and even though she had quite a tolerance she OD'ed on the meds mentioned in this thread. Poor Micheal Post was the one who gave her the last dose, which was doctor ordered.
j
Posted by saint james on March 2, 2000, at 23:02:30
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by kazoo on March 2, 2000, at 22:38:36
Actually the Sedgwick's lived in Stockbridge MA, where the Sedgwick Pie is. Strubridge is a historicaly recreated village, and it is the Sedgwick's that lived there not the Posts.
j
Posted by kazoo on March 3, 2000, at 0:52:05
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by saint james on March 2, 2000, at 23:02:30
> Actually the Sedgwick's lived in Stockbridge MA, where the Sedgwick Pie is. Strubridge is a historicaly recreated village, and it is the Sedgwick's that lived there not the Posts.
>
> jwhatever, james ... sniff, sniff
Posted by Noa on March 3, 2000, at 6:18:56
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by kazoo on March 3, 2000, at 0:52:05
Old Sturbridge Village is an historically recreated settlement. It is located in Sturbridge, MA, which is a real town with real people.
Posted by Sarah on March 3, 2000, at 11:12:19
In reply to Re: Sleeping Aids!!, posted by Noa on March 3, 2000, at 6:18:56
Hey there... update on my sleeping dilemma... As Carol Ann and my husband had suggested, I did try the Benedryl last night. It worked wonderfully! I guess maybe with taking the Adderall now, my chemistry has changed enough to sleep well on it! Thanks everyone for your help!
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