![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 22 to 46 of 47. Go back in thread:
Posted by anna on January 6, 2000, at 17:27:10
In reply to Re: Anna's question, posted by Noa on January 5, 2000, at 19:17:44
> > what is the 12 minute cleanup? --anna
>
> I believe it was Janice who shared this idea. Once a day, you set a timer for 12 minutes and clean for that amount of time, no more no less. That way, you can avoid getting overwhelmed and will keep on top of things.
Posted by anna on January 6, 2000, at 17:32:59
In reply to Re: Transition Trouble, posted by Renee N on January 5, 2000, at 17:15:03
> > > > I am having, perhaps have always had, difficulty with transitions of any kind. At the moment it is leaving work to go home. I am glad I can leave work, but perhaps not so looking forward to home which isn't feeling like home cuz of how filthy it is. I told myself I would do my 12 minute cleanup maximum, per Janice's model, but I don't even feel like going there.
> > > >
> > > > I have difficulty with other transitions as well. Anyone else have this problem?
> > >
> > >
> > > I have add too, and yes, transitions are a problem--change is a problem, even small ones. I don't know why. Adderall helps, but not everything.
> > >
> > > what is the 12 minute cleanup? --anna
> >
> >
> >
> > Man, I love you guys! It feels so good to "go" somewhere and feel like people really truly understand, can relate to, and care about your eachother and and our problems.
> > People who don't have ADD or don't believe or understand the type without hyperactivity always think we are exaggerating our struggles. I wish they could follow me around for 24 hours and THEN give me their opinion. Yes, we all do stupid things, but not constantly like us. This week I locked myself out of my car at work one day and left my lunch in the car the next. I left icecream sitting on the freezer, forgot where I left my glasses, forgot to bring my ADDerall to work, can't remember if I took a pill 5 minutes ago, asked my kids,
> > "who ate all the eggs?" when they were sitting on the counter where I had placed them less than 3 minutes earlier...need i go on? Sound familiar? I do believe that those of us with a leaning toward depression dwell on these problems lmore than a more secure, cheerful, self confident person might in the same situation.
>
>
> Hi, it's me again. I just remembered that I also wanted to respond to the question about transition problems and ADD. Transitions require thinking about details and planning. Do you have everything you need? What time should you leave? Did I turn off the coffee? And on and on.Hey renee--I forget everything too!!! I even sent up a poost last month because I thought my memory was going. We do the same stuff. another thing I do--I made up my own planner--it's not pretty like the nice leather ones (I use a 3 ring notebook) but it is big and I took the best from all the systems and made it to suit me. It helsps.
Posted by Renee N on January 7, 2000, at 0:28:42
In reply to Re: Transition Trouble--renee, posted by anna on January 6, 2000, at 17:32:59
> > > > > I am having, perhaps have always had, difficulty with transitions of any kind. At the moment it is leaving work to go home. I am glad I can leave work, but perhaps not so looking forward to home which isn't feeling like home cuz of how filthy it is. I told myself I would do my 12 minute cleanup maximum, per Janice's model, but I don't even feel like going there.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have difficulty with other transitions as well. Anyone else have this problem?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have add too, and yes, transitions are a problem--change is a problem, even small ones. I don't know why. Adderall helps, but not everything.
> > > >
> > > > what is the 12 minute cleanup? --anna
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Man, I love you guys! It feels so good to "go" somewhere and feel like people really truly understand, can relate to, and care about your eachother and and our problems.
> > > People who don't have ADD or don't believe or understand the type without hyperactivity always think we are exaggerating our struggles. I wish they could follow me around for 24 hours and THEN give me their opinion. Yes, we all do stupid things, but not constantly like us. This week I locked myself out of my car at work one day and left my lunch in the car the next. I left icecream sitting on the freezer, forgot where I left my glasses, forgot to bring my ADDerall to work, can't remember if I took a pill 5 minutes ago, asked my kids,
> > > "who ate all the eggs?" when they were sitting on the counter where I had placed them less than 3 minutes earlier...need i go on? Sound familiar? I do believe that those of us with a leaning toward depression dwell on these problems lmore than a more secure, cheerful, self confident person might in the same situation.
> >
> >
> > Hi, it's me again. I just remembered that I also wanted to respond to the question about transition problems and ADD. Transitions require thinking about details and planning. Do you have everything you need? What time should you leave? Did I turn off the coffee? And on and on.
>
> Hey renee--I forget everything too!!! I even sent up a poost last month because I thought my memory was going. We do the same stuff. another thing I do--I made up my own planner--it's not pretty like the nice leather ones (I use a 3 ring notebook) but it is big and I took the best from all the systems and made it to suit me. It helsps.Anna, look around, we have answered eachother elsewhere about similar topics. We must be kindred spirits. Since I have many aquaintances, but no one around to pal around with, it's good to find someone like you. Too bad you're nodt my next-door neighbor! :)
P.S. Both times I wrote posts to you I messed up by writing the subject in the name box and had to go back and fix it. I find myself wasting so much time fixing things because of my lack of attention to details and/or forgetting of all sorts. Yesterday I forgot to dial *9 before calling outside the office, forgot to put 1 before the area code, and a few other blunders before I finally got a call to go through . I ended up with a telephone tag message, ironicly to my son's doctor about his ADD!
Posted by anna on January 7, 2000, at 16:14:52
In reply to To: Anna, posted by Renee N on January 7, 2000, at 0:28:42
> > > > > > I am having, perhaps have always had, difficulty with transitions of any kind. At the moment it is leaving work to go home. I am glad I can leave work, but perhaps not so looking forward to home which isn't feeling like home cuz of how filthy it is. I told myself I would do my 12 minute cleanup maximum, per Janice's model, but I don't even feel like going there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have difficulty with other transitions as well. Anyone else have this problem?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have add too, and yes, transitions are a problem--change is a problem, even small ones. I don't know why. Adderall helps, but not everything.
> > > > >
> > > > > what is the 12 minute cleanup? --anna
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Man, I love you guys! It feels so good to "go" somewhere and feel like people really truly understand, can relate to, and care about your eachother and and our problems.
> > > > People who don't have ADD or don't believe or understand the type without hyperactivity always think we are exaggerating our struggles. I wish they could follow me around for 24 hours and THEN give me their opinion. Yes, we all do stupid things, but not constantly like us. This week I locked myself out of my car at work one day and left my lunch in the car the next. I left icecream sitting on the freezer, forgot where I left my glasses, forgot to bring my ADDerall to work, can't remember if I took a pill 5 minutes ago, asked my kids,
> > > > "who ate all the eggs?" when they were sitting on the counter where I had placed them less than 3 minutes earlier...need i go on? Sound familiar? I do believe that those of us with a leaning toward depression dwell on these problems lmore than a more secure, cheerful, self confident person might in the same situation.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi, it's me again. I just remembered that I also wanted to respond to the question about transition problems and ADD. Transitions require thinking about details and planning. Do you have everything you need? What time should you leave? Did I turn off the coffee? And on and on.
> >
> > Hey renee--I forget everything too!!! I even sent up a poost last month because I thought my memory was going. We do the same stuff. another thing I do--I made up my own planner--it's not pretty like the nice leather ones (I use a 3 ring notebook) but it is big and I took the best from all the systems and made it to suit me. It helsps.
>
> Anna, look around, we have answered eachother elsewhere about similar topics. We must be kindred spirits. Since I have many aquaintances, but no one around to pal around with, it's good to find someone like you. Too bad you're nodt my next-door neighbor! :)
>
> P.S. Both times I wrote posts to you I messed up by writing the subject in the name box and had to go back and fix it. I find myself wasting so much time fixing things because of my lack of attention to details and/or forgetting of all sorts. Yesterday I forgot to dial *9 before calling outside the office, forgot to put 1 before the area code, and a few other blunders before I finally got a call to go through . I ended up with a telephone tag message, ironicly to my son's doctor about his ADD!Renee
Heck, we'd be laughing so hard at all the stupid things we do we'd forget to go to work, clean--(uh, all the stuff we screw up now, anyway). I am so glad too, however, that there are people who do the dumb things I do....my friends are very put togehter, or at least don't run the washing machine without clothes, or have flooded their , bathrooms, etc regulary because they leave water running. You know, I do the same stuff with the phone, espeically given all the codes and things these days. I hardly ever get a call out on the first try. But, it's one thing I never think aboutAt did call a couple of cleaning services today to get estimates. I figure if I book someone next week, I will be forced to pick up this weekend. Yes!
I admire anyone with add and kids--how do you do it? If I had a family, DFS would likely take the kids away--I'd forget to feed them, or take them for their shots or whatever. (oh, I guess they are not puppies.)
Posted by Noa on January 7, 2000, at 16:21:21
In reply to Ren.--Never get a thing done if we were neighbors!, posted by anna on January 7, 2000, at 16:14:52
LOL, Anna!
Good luck picking up to prep for the cleaners. Hey, do you think they'd give us a group rate if we had them do all of our places?
Posted by S. Suggs on January 7, 2000, at 20:47:36
In reply to Ren.--Never get a thing done if we were neighbors!, posted by anna on January 7, 2000, at 16:14:52
It's funny the things we do (ADD'ers): My favorite is having to go back to the house from the car around 3-4 times to get everytings; going to a store and losing your car (you know it's not stolen) and in the process of looking for it, you try to make everyone in the parking lot think you know exactly where you are going and when you find your car, you also find the list you spent 30 minutes putting together etc... As far as having children go, it's tough (for all parents), but there is something to be said when they are your own. They do test your patience and as a positive result, give you greater patience. I as a father now find myself in public situations where a screaming child does almost nothing to me, whereas in the past, 5 years ago, I would have been in a fit over someones kids. I hope (afraid there is) there is not a genetical link, I'd hate to see this passed on to one of my two sons - 7months and almost 3 (yes the terrible two's are bad. Kids need and want limits and I think that is what it is about). Sorry to ramble, Blessings
S. Suggs
Posted by Renee N on January 8, 2000, at 1:19:03
In reply to Ren.--Never get a thing done if we were neighbors!, posted by anna on January 7, 2000, at 16:14:52
> > > > > > > I am having, perhaps have always had, difficulty with transitions of any kind. At the moment it is leaving work to go home. I am glad I can leave work, but perhaps not so looking forward to home which isn't feeling like home cuz of how filthy it is. I told myself I would do my 12 minute cleanup maximum, per Janice's model, but I don't even feel like going there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have difficulty with other transitions as well. Anyone else have this problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have add too, and yes, transitions are a problem--change is a problem, even small ones. I don't know why. Adderall helps, but not everything.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what is the 12 minute cleanup? --anna
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Man, I love you guys! It feels so good to "go" somewhere and feel like people really truly understand, can relate to, and care about your eachother and and our problems.
> > > > > People who don't have ADD or don't believe or understand the type without hyperactivity always think we are exaggerating our struggles. I wish they could follow me around for 24 hours and THEN give me their opinion. Yes, we all do stupid things, but not constantly like us. This week I locked myself out of my car at work one day and left my lunch in the car the next. I left icecream sitting on the freezer, forgot where I left my glasses, forgot to bring my ADDerall to work, can't remember if I took a pill 5 minutes ago, asked my kids,
> > > > > "who ate all the eggs?" when they were sitting on the counter where I had placed them less than 3 minutes earlier...need i go on? Sound familiar? I do believe that those of us with a leaning toward depression dwell on these problems lmore than a more secure, cheerful, self confident person might in the same situation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi, it's me again. I just remembered that I also wanted to respond to the question about transition problems and ADD. Transitions require thinking about details and planning. Do you have everything you need? What time should you leave? Did I turn off the coffee? And on and on.
> > >
> > > Hey renee--I forget everything too!!! I even sent up a poost last month because I thought my memory was going. We do the same stuff. another thing I do--I made up my own planner--it's not pretty like the nice leather ones (I use a 3 ring notebook) but it is big and I took the best from all the systems and made it to suit me. It helsps.
> >
> > Anna, look around, we have answered eachother elsewhere about similar topics. We must be kindred spirits. Since I have many aquaintances, but no one around to pal around with, it's good to find someone like you. Too bad you're nodt my next-door neighbor! :)
> >
> > P.S. Both times I wrote posts to you I messed up by writing the subject in the name box and had to go back and fix it. I find myself wasting so much time fixing things because of my lack of attention to details and/or forgetting of all sorts. Yesterday I forgot to dial *9 before calling outside the office, forgot to put 1 before the area code, and a few other blunders before I finally got a call to go through . I ended up with a telephone tag message, ironicly to my son's doctor about his ADD!
>
> Renee
> Heck, we'd be laughing so hard at all the stupid things we do we'd forget to go to work, clean--(uh, all the stuff we screw up now, anyway). I am so glad too, however, that there are people who do the dumb things I do....my friends are very put togehter, or at least don't run the washing machine without clothes, or have flooded their , bathrooms, etc regulary because they leave water running. You know, I do the same stuff with the phone, espeically given all the codes and things these days. I hardly ever get a call out on the first try. But, it's one thing I never think about
>
> At did call a couple of cleaning services today to get estimates. I figure if I book someone next week, I will be forced to pick up this weekend. Yes!
>
> I admire anyone with add and kids--how do you do it? If I had a family, DFS would likely take the kids away--I'd forget to feed them, or take them for their shots or whatever. (oh, I guess they are not puppies.)
>Anna--Your post had me laughing out loud! :o
On a more serious note--When I was first married my husband said he would be afraid to have kids, because I might leave them somewhere. This wasn't said in a heated rage or a joke. He had every reason to be concerned. A few years later we did have kids. I stayed at home until the last one was in first grade, and then worked at their school. Having children forces you to take responsibility seriously out of your overwhelming love and fierce protective instincts. I HAD to get more organized, and double check everything.(A helpful hint for ADDers who are planning on having kids---Breastfeed! You never can forget to bring the baby's food/milk, you don't have any bottles to wash (Only a couple of "jugs" in the shower! Crude, aren't I? If these kind of jokes offend anyone let me know and I will stop.), their diapers are a lot less stinky than formula fed babies', you don't have to worry about refridgeration or warming of bottles,or forgetting to buy formula, and it doesn't cost a dime. It also gives you a good excuse to be near your baby all the time, if you are so inclined. Oh, yeah, it helps you to lose weight fast after delivery. If you have to, or choose to work I'm sure it's harder to breastfeed, but so wonderful for mom and baby if you can manage it.
I have forgotten to pick up my kids from activities, but only a couple of times. It is very embarrassing. Recently, I didn't forget to pick them up, but didn't get done with my shopping at a store that's open 24 hours in time to get them from another store they were shopping at that closed at 11:00 pm. hey had insisted on leraving their coats in the car, which I had forgtten. I thought I would only end up being about 5 minutes late, but it was 20 minutes. I did have a watch. There is NO EXCUSE! They had to call my husband and he got them, and then waited for me in the parking lot, so I wouldn't panic. Before I saw his car pull up next to me, and could see the store lights were off with no kids in sight... He was so kind. He held me that night as I cried. I now wonder if the AD's I take led me to poor decision making, not thinking enough about how my kids would feel if I were even one minute late. This was one of the most upsetting things I've ever done in my life.
I must tell you though, that my children are not little kids, and very smart, or I wouldn't have even let them shop alone at night. We live in a town with a very low crime rate. I was shopping for their Christmas presents, last minute and very frustrated because I thought it would be as breeze, but I couln't find any of the things on one of their lists.
Okay, back to funny stories...When my daughter was only a few months old I bought her a very frilly dress to wear to have her picture taken(If you saw what little hair she had at the time, you would know why I chose such a girly outfit!). I put it on her to see how it fit. Soon she was crying. I couldn't calm her with any of the usual methods. I finally discovered that I had not taken the pins out of the new dress before putting it on her. She wasn't bleeding, but I'm sure it was horrible for her. I felt so bad for her, but even then, I hate to admit, I could see the humour in it. She forgave me then, and has continued to do so, even today when I forgot to stop by her school on my way to work to drop off money for a special after school activity. She called me less than half an hour before I left, and I completely fogot about it all day, but didn't forget that I needed to pick her up at 5:00. Strange to rememberthat parft, but not the other.
I think we should all quit our constant apoligizing for rambling. We all do it, and I enjoy reading it from others! If you can't ramble to fellow ADDer's and/or depressed friends, who can you ramble to?!
Posted by Julie on January 8, 2000, at 9:57:20
In reply to Re: Transition Trouble, posted by Noa on January 5, 2000, at 19:14:30
It's great to be able to read posts from fellow ADD-ers who deal with the same things I do--
My latest transition trouble: I work at home most days, writing a PhD dissertation. So I get into having the place to myself: clothes and books scattered all over, half-eaten bags of pretzels and cups of water lying around, taking naps and talking on the phone when my hyper-focus switches into no-focus, etc. Then at 4:30 my live-in guy comes home from work. A great guy whom I love very much...very non-ADD; we're still both learning about each other's patterns. And when he comes in I'm glad to see him but my own ADD world is gone for the day, and those first few minutes I feel myself getting inexplicably bitchy at him for absolutely no reason. Then I adjust to Couple World instead of ADD World and all is OK. But I don't want to snap at the poor guy when he walks in the door because I'm having a Transition Moment!
ADDers with non-ADD partners...ideas?
Posted by CarolAnn on January 8, 2000, at 11:09:19
In reply to Transition Trouble: Non-ADD partners, posted by Julie on January 8, 2000, at 9:57:20
Hey Julie, I have the same problem. I'm a stay-at-home mom and when my husband gets home, my thing is that not only do I not want to deal with him, I don't even want him to touch me. I've learned to stifle my feelings and put on a 5 or 10 minute "how was your day dear?"(hug, kiss)type of show. What helps is that years ago, I made a policy that he must *always* call and let me know he is on the way home from work. This gives me about 20 minutes to "reset" myself. Even with this though there are times when bitchiness happens. Fortuneatly, I've always communicated exactly what my problems are and explained to him exactly why he should not take any of it personally. He has adapted very well. Who else do you know whose partner knows, better then she does when PMS will hit?(by the position of the moon in relation to her cycle, no less?). Anyway, as time passes, there will always be new problems (mental health or not) cropping up and the only way to get thru (even unsolveable ones) is communication, communication, communication, and as much empathy as you can muster. Hope some of this helps.CarolAnn
Posted by dove on January 8, 2000, at 11:13:19
In reply to Transition Trouble: Non-ADD partners, posted by Julie on January 8, 2000, at 9:57:20
Adder here, I blinked twice when I read your post. Everyday I go through the exact same thing, twice. First,when the kids get home and then when my husband gets home. I hate the weekends also, no time to fix my brain or something, just taking care of everyone's needs. I am oversensitive ontop of all that, so I go around, carefully watching my husband for any signs of disapproval, or any negative feelings. I know I must drive them all nuts, and I try to deal with my feelings, but really find it difficult. If I see my husband look around, I immediately ask him if he needs something, do you need lunch, water, coffee, a pen? He can hardly turn around without me trying to get what I think he's looking for. He tells me to stop, because he can't even think around me.
So, short story long, I try to spend a few minutes everyday, before they walk through the door, mentally and emotionally preparing myself, almost like pep-talks. It doesn't always work, often it doesn't, but it's the only coping skills I have at the moment.
Anyone else with ideas?
dove
Posted by Janice on January 8, 2000, at 13:18:11
In reply to Re: Transition Trouble: Non-ADD partners, posted by dove on January 8, 2000, at 11:13:19
but until i read your posts, I had never put it into words.
I'm single right now, but that's a great idea Carol Ann; having people call before they come home. and speaking of having trouble with transtions - i like being single and i like being with someone I love, but i can barely tolerate the dating and breaking up periods - those transitions!
Anyone know why being so ADHD supersensitive leads to low self esteem? From what I can tell my brain thinks great thoughts, but my feelings just screw me over royally.
Dove, we must have very similar nervous systems and temperments! You write wonderfully, and I imagine you are/were an excellent student (if you remembered to show up, or got there before class was over). Janice
Posted by noa on January 8, 2000, at 14:56:28
In reply to Wow! same problem., posted by Janice on January 8, 2000, at 13:18:11
the idea of having some prep time before kids or hubbies come home is a good one. A long time ago when I was a teacher in a day care center, we started encouraging parents to be consistent in their pick-up times or to call us. That way we could give the toddlers a few minutes "warning". A lot of the kids had really bad adjustment problems in that going-home transition, often worse than the morning drop off. I think it is because the parents and we had focused on making the morning separation transition work, but hadn't thought so much about the pick up. Without the prep time, the kids felt interrupted, I think, just not ready to deal with reuniting with parents. Then, what would ensue is what is familiar to many parents, the meltdown, which of course, made the parents feel like dirt. But once we startd preping the kids, and as long as the parents kept a fairly consistent schedule, the transitions were smoother.
Posted by CarolAnn on January 8, 2000, at 15:34:16
In reply to Re: Wow! same problem., posted by noa on January 8, 2000, at 14:56:28
How about that? I was a daycare teacher for awhile too. I was also a live in Nanny for four years and the kids went thru exactly the same meltdown transition problems. My question, what do ADD'ers have in common with small children? I'm sure there's an answer somewhere in somebody's research.CarolAnn
Posted by CarolAnn on January 8, 2000, at 15:47:09
In reply to Wow! same problem., posted by Janice on January 8, 2000, at 13:18:11
Having only recently discovered my ADD, I have been pondering my childhood, connecting symptoms that I have now with the same type of things I was doing then, which were not diagnosable, since know one knew back then that there was such a thing as ADD W/O hyperactivity.
Anyway, what I see looking back are all these ADD behaviors that to the outside eye would have just looked like weirdness or laziness or something. I know that I *always* felt that I was so totally different from other kids, that there must *really* be something wrong with me. Lacking insight of course,over years of my childhood, I began to assume that the "something wrong" had to be my own fault. And it doesn't help to live in a family who see the differences but can't understand it and also assume that it is something you are "doing", rather then something you need help with. How could I *not* develope low self-esteem? I would bet that any ADD'er or ADHD'er could find similarities to this story if they thought about it long enough. Any comments or additional thoughts?CarolAnn
Posted by dj on January 8, 2000, at 23:11:33
In reply to Re: me too, Noa, posted by CarolAnn on January 8, 2000, at 15:34:16
Just scanned your various comments and I'm curious why you all chose to put the label ADD or ADHD on this transitional problems Perhaps it's a problem of introversion vs extroversion or whatever the heck you might want to label it. I id
with much of what was stated above but I am not ADD, though Janice previously kept trying to float that theory by me...Frankly I think North Americans are too fast to label ourselves with too many maladaptive or hyper-bolic descriptors.The question was asked what do kids have in common with self-described ADDers (and I would add those who don't use that or necessarily any labels). They are human and don't like to be distracted from something they are focused on, so why pathologize that?
> How about that? I was a daycare teacher for awhile too. I was also a live in Nanny for four years and the kids went thru exactly the same meltdown transition problems. My question, what do ADD'ers have in common with small children? I'm sure there's an answer somewhere in somebody's research.CarolAnn
Posted by Janice on January 9, 2000, at 0:13:35
In reply to Does it all ADD up?, posted by dj on January 8, 2000, at 23:11:33
Hi everyone,
I've read that some scientists 'believe' or theorize that a certain part of ADHD peoples' brains fails to mature, and that this part of the brain remains stuck at a level of a toddler's for the rest of that persons life. Of course, this has to do with impulse control and attention. Personally, I don't like the theory, but I certainly can understand its premise.hi dj and everyone,
By my nature, Ihave to say I have always preferred introversion. I see so clearly the benefits of introversion ...that is for society. Most likely, all great poems, religions, music, books, songs are works of deep thinkers and deep feelers (introverts).I've noticed, in my life, (much to my dismay) that being extraverted and feeling good generally have gone hand in hand. But for the most part, I cannot not be introverted.
Is it possible to be introverted and not feel depressed or tortured? Does anyone know if there is a correlation between mental illness and introversion. I would not be surprised if there was.
Janice
p.s. lost the job. thinking of moving back to Toronto. you sound a bit frustrated lately.
Posted by Renee N on January 9, 2000, at 0:23:38
In reply to Does it all ADD up?, posted by dj on January 8, 2000, at 23:11:33
> Just scanned your various comments and I'm curious why you all chose to put the label ADD or ADHD on this transitional problems Perhaps it's a problem of introversion vs extroversion or whatever the heck you might want to label it. I id
> with much of what was stated above but I am not ADD, though Janice previously kept trying to float that theory by me...Frankly I think North Americans are too fast to label ourselves with too many maladaptive or hyper-bolic descriptors.
>
> The question was asked what do kids have in common with self-described ADDers (and I would add those who don't use that or necessarily any labels). They are human and don't like to be distracted from something they are focused on, so why pathologize that?
>
>
>
> > How about that? I was a daycare teacher for awhile too. I was also a live in Nanny for four years and the kids went thru exactly the same meltdown transition problems. My question, what do ADD'ers have in common with small children? I'm sure there's an answer somewhere in somebody's research.CarolAnnI'll try fo take a positive outlook comparing adults with ADD symptoms and children. Weboth like to do whatever we think of right now, with no planning. We speak before we think, interrupt because we just have to say what we are thinking right when we are thinking it. We tend to seek excitement. We drift through our days with no plans, sometimes our whole lives. You'll see us flitting from one activity to another and another often leaving things hald done and /or in disarray.e We demand immediate gratification. We love to talk. We are usually not secretive, if you ask, we'll tell.
We cannot judge time very well. We require supervision, rewards, and directions for tasks we don't find interesting. Our minds wander, helping us to be creative, as do our lack of inhibitions. We feel very frustated when there is too much stimulation. We have no clue how "normal" adults do what they do and find adult responsibilities quite boring. We feel very sad and ashamed when criticized or "caught" messing something up by those we love. We want to please everyone, and really want to be good lovable competent people who make our loved ones and ourselves proud. our self esteem is quite fragile since we struggle to remember all that we need to do, but the kids usually have parents and teachers to act as constant "coaches".
Yes, everyone probably has these qualities, but it is a matter of degree. As I've said over and over, if you could follow me for 24 hours, you would understand the difference. Talk to the non-ADD spouses, children and siblings of diagnosed ADD adults. They will tell you that that person has always been absentminded, late, pokey, unorganized, impulsive, a daydreamer, space case, procrastinater, loses things, doesn't recall what they just heard, etc.
I don't care so much about labels. I just want people who don't struggle with these challenging characteristics, personality traits, symptoms, mental problems, handicaps, disabilities or whatever they are that we call ADD(Yes, I know that the latest official label is actually ADHD, but I don't have the H and am writing from my own experience.) don't just write us off as lazy whiners or whatever. I don't know anyone who would choose to live the life of ADD if they could be "normal".
Sorry I ranted and raved, but my family is making it very clear to me lately that they are tired of me obsessing about ADD and/or depression and my meds. How can I not talk about things that invade my mind, body, actions, and heart every minute every second of every day? I can see how they are all sick of it. Like I'm not!?
I am so grateful for this forum where I find such complete understanding. Thank you all for sharing. I think I'd lose it without this outlet at this point in my roadd of life. I am trying to make it a road to recovery and self actualization.
Posted by dj on January 9, 2000, at 1:41:15
In reply to ADHD & children...Introversion & Extraversion..., posted by Janice on January 9, 2000, at 0:13:35
Hi J. & all,
Yes I am feeling a bit frustrated. Very tired these days and the ADs seem to put me out of whack as much as they help. I'm just kinda fed up with the whole psycho-pharmaceutical routine and my lethargy, uncertainty and the fact that after a year of intense IT courses I feel no further ahead than when I started and in many ways feel further behind...so it goes...
I'm pretty sure I have read someplace that there is a higher correlation between introversion and depression. In fact I have seen statistics more than once that show that the biggest overall health risks and shortest lives are those of single men, whereas I believe married women were next in line but I don't have those facts here or know where to find them... However there is a high correlation between dis-ease and depression. Now, it's generally accepted that women have higher levels of depression but I suspect that may just be that men don't generally go for treatment as much and/or mask the symptoms with alcohol abuse, etc...or pass it on to their wives..
But then again as Disraeli said there are "...lies, dammed lies and statistics...". As I recall from my very first university class the prof. noted that the average family had 2.5 children and it looked like he had all the .5's and then he went on to indicate how he could do a survey and show that the average person has one testicle, and one breast...
As a Xmas gift to I purchased (with a Chapters certificate from some friends I stayed with) a book called "The Owner's Manual to the Brain" by Pierce J. Howard. He works in Organizational Development and in the book he reviews some relatively current psychological research in many areas and attempts to point out some practical applications. There's some stuff about ADD in there and depression and lots of other stuff. Worth taking a gander at...
Also, being a true introvert I've taken in a number of films over the past while (by myself) which have been therepeutic at the time. All the following I've recently seen and highly recommend, though some are a bit quirky and dark and others not -- Magnolia, Liberty Heights, Cider House Rules, Toy Story 2, Iron Giant and the Talented Mr. Ripley. If you are in an obsessively depressed frame probably best to hold off on 1, 3, and 6.
Posted by dj on January 9, 2000, at 2:14:59
In reply to ADD --child like, posted by Renee N on January 9, 2000, at 0:23:38
Renee,Most of what you described fits me to a t, at times. However, when I work on being disciplined I can be more structured and effective and it is not easy, particularly if I am not overly interested in what I am doing.
I wouldn't describe myself as having ADD though, whereas I have a very, good friend who is always referring to himself as ADD, which he claims is a classic entrepreneurial trait. He is extremely organized and detail oriented, though he has a hard time with conceptualizing how you implement strategic plans (as do I)...He is one of the most effective effusive, thoughtful and gregarious people I know on many fronts. Much of this he has learned by putting his time in at Toastmasters, working with daytimers, etc...and dealing with the depression, self doubt, and disorganization which has plagued him at times.
I am one of the least effective people I know because I tend to obsess too much at times about what's not working rather than focusing on what is working or the converse. I am easily distracted and can easily fly off on a tangent or pull inward. I hate being interrupted or not listened to but when I listen to myself I am babbling at times, which I do in print here and elsewhere when I'm not being disciplined or paying attention. Some people consider me quirky (including my therapist who thinks I spend too much time psycho-babbling) others consider me an amazing networker. I'm both on the surface but as a networker I don't follow through, because I lack direction, faith, inspiration and consistency. I'm far too easily swayed by how I 'feel' even though on the surface I can appear to be cooly rational, and am at times...but not enough..
I could babble on and I won't much longer. The point I am attempting to make is sure we all have tendencies to greater or lesser degrees. I believe we can change those, somewhat,if we work really hard at it with discipline and consistency, something I still struggle with.
My lack of discipline comes to some degree from being a somewhat spoiled kid who was used to getting his own way and often not certain how to react when he didn't other than by getting depressed or angry, or charming sometimes...or just pulling away...all of which I still do...
Take a look at http://www.undoingdepression.com
Dr. O'Connor has some very intersting comments there from his book of the same name about how he believes depression is something that we learn, to some degree, and it becomes a part of us so it is very difficult, but not impossible to retrain ourselves -- just very demanding work, as he has learnt from his own experience. ADD and any other such label I think just outline our genetic and learned preferences, tendencies and beliefs which I believe are alterable to some degree.Below someone referenced a NYTimes Mag. article on placebos which I read earlier tonight. It's a very good overview on some of the scientific thinking and expermentation in that area and how so little is know about how our minds influence our health, drastically, for better or for worse.
> Sorry I ranted and raved, but my family is making it very clear to me lately that they are tired of me obsessing about ADD and/or depression and my meds. How can I not talk about things that invade my mind, body, actions, and heart every minute every second of every day? I can see how they are all sick of it. Like I'm >not!?
Ditto! It's hard to find a balance between noting and obsessing. I'm still working on it and may be for the rest of my days. Good luck!!
Posted by Renee N on January 9, 2000, at 2:30:28
In reply to Re: ADD --child like, posted by dj on January 9, 2000, at 2:14:59
>
> Renee,
>
> Most of what you described fits me to a t, at times. However, when I work on being disciplined I can be more structured and effective and it is not easy, particularly if I am not overly interested in what I am doing.
>
> I wouldn't describe myself as having ADD though, whereas I have a very, good friend who is always referring to himself as ADD, which he claims is a classic entrepreneurial trait. He is extremely organized and detail oriented, though he has a hard time with conceptualizing how you implement strategic plans (as do I)...He is one of the most effective effusive, thoughtful and gregarious people I know on many fronts. Much of this he has learned by putting his time in at Toastmasters, working with daytimers, etc...and dealing with the depression, self doubt, and disorganization which has plagued him at times.
>
> I am one of the least effective people I know because I tend to obsess too much at times about what's not working rather than focusing on what is working or the converse. I am easily distracted and can easily fly off on a tangent or pull inward. I hate being interrupted or not listened to but when I listen to myself I am babbling at times, which I do in print here and elsewhere when I'm not being disciplined or paying attention. Some people consider me quirky (including my therapist who thinks I spend too much time psycho-babbling) others consider me an amazing networker. I'm both on the surface but as a networker I don't follow through, because I lack direction, faith, inspiration and consistency. I'm far too easily swayed by how I 'feel' even though on the surface I can appear to be cooly rational, and am at times...but not enough..
>
> I could babble on and I won't much longer. The point I am attempting to make is sure we all have tendencies to greater or lesser degrees. I believe we can change those, somewhat,if we work really hard at it with discipline and consistency, something I still struggle with.
>
> My lack of discipline comes to some degree from being a somewhat spoiled kid who was used to getting his own way and often not certain how to react when he didn't other than by getting depressed or angry, or charming sometimes...or just pulling away...all of which I still do...
>
> Take a look at http://www.undoingdepression.com
> Dr. O'Connor has some very intersting comments there from his book of the same name about how he believes depression is something that we learn, to some degree, and it becomes a part of us so it is very difficult, but not impossible to retrain ourselves -- just very demanding work, as he has learnt from his own experience. ADD and any other such label I think just outline our genetic and learned preferences, tendencies and beliefs which I believe are alterable to some degree.
>
> Below someone referenced a NYTimes Mag. article on placebos which I read earlier tonight. It's a very good overview on some of the scientific thinking and expermentation in that area and how so little is know about how our minds influence our health, drastically, for better or for worse.
>
> > Sorry I ranted and raved, but my family is making it very clear to me lately that they are tired of me obsessing about ADD and/or depression and my meds. How can I not talk about things that invade my mind, body, actions, and heart every minute every second of every day? I can see how they are all sick of it. Like I'm >not!?
>
> Ditto! It's hard to find a balance between noting and obsessing. I'm still working on it and may be for the rest of my days. Good luck!!
I appreciate the way you state your opinions without belittling others' ideas. I am continually amazed at the level of intelligence and kindness on this board compared to others I've seen. Best wishes to you, too.
Posted by S. Suggs on January 9, 2000, at 5:21:23
In reply to ADHD & children...Introversion & Extraversion..., posted by Janice on January 9, 2000, at 0:13:35
>
> > I've noticed, in my life, (much to my dismay) that being extraverted and feeling good generally have gone hand in hand. But for the most part, I cannot not be introverted.
>
> Is it possible to be introverted and not feel depressed or tortured? Does anyone know if there is a correlation between mental illness and introversion. I would not be surprised if there was.
>
Hello Janice: You are really a thinker, analytical as well! In reply to your question, let me answer it with one, just for thought purposes only: Does depression result in introversion. I had a Meyers Briggs (sp?) done 5 years or so ago, which indicated that I was slightly introverted. I wonder where I'd score now. Is it possible to be introverted and feel not feel depressed. Yes, to the watching world, it might not look so, perception is reality. Blessings,S. Suggs
Posted by dj on January 9, 2000, at 11:10:36
In reply to To: dj, posted by Renee N on January 9, 2000, at 2:30:28
Thanks, Renee, I appreciate the acknowledgement. As you would see if you noted some of my comments to Phil Marx above, I am not always successful at keeping an even tone. However if I work at it, it becomes more of a habit as long as I stay mindful of my tone.
In one of my posts (either above or below) I noted to Janice that I recently purchased a book called "The Owner's Manual to the Brain" (2ndEd) by Pierce J. Howard who reviews a lot of brain/mind research and comments on it's applications. Big book, which I read in small bites. One of those I noted after last night's posting is the following from his section on 'Being in Control: Emotions, Motivation, Stress & Burnout', (pg. 378), which relates to our exchange:
"Generally, motivation is described as goal-oriented behaviour...Research is pointing to mounting evidence of a molecular, or biological, basis for goal-oriented behaviour. It is important to remember that in all probablility, 50 percent of our variance in motivation can be accounted for by our genetic inheritance. Therefore, our levels of testosterone, cortisol, guanosine, monophosphate, and other "molecules of emotion" (Pert, 1997); the constitution of our endorphin gene; the distribution of the various kinds of immune cell in our system; and our hemispheric dominance - all of which affect our motivation, or level of action - are essentially set from conception. The research is that we primarily influence these levels downward. This means for example, that the pursuit of hardiness allows us to fully utilize our genetic endowment of natural killer cells but probably does not increase our normal level. On the other hand, allowing stress, pessimism, and negative feelings to dominate our minds can actually lower our motivational resources...We can't change our physical makeup without resorting to pharmaceuticals, surgery or genetic engineering...If we choose not to tamper with nature, we can at least maximize what we've got by ensuring that our nurture is as good as it can be."
Lots more written on this sort of thing and what to do about it, like the Candace Pert book cited above, a couple of books I cited to Janice below and/or many others such as: "Love & Survival : 8 Pathways to Intimacy and Health" by Dean Ornish.
The challenge is what to do with it all, and that requires mindfulness, thoughtfullness and discipline as well as lots of compassionate support both from oneself and others. Cheers!
> I appreciate the way you state your opinions without belittling others' ideas. I am continually amazed at the level of intelligence and kindness on this board compared to others I've seen. Best wishes to you, too.
Posted by anna on January 11, 2000, at 17:25:57
In reply to Does it all ADD up?, posted by dj on January 8, 2000, at 23:11:33
> Just scanned your various comments and I'm curious why you all chose to put the label ADD or ADHD on this transitional problems Perhaps it's a problem of introversion vs extroversion or whatever the heck you might want to label it. I id
> with much of what was stated above but I am not ADD, though Janice previously kept trying to float that theory by me...Frankly I think North Americans are too fast to label ourselves with too many maladaptive or hyper-bolic descriptors.
>
> The question was asked what do kids have in common with self-described ADDers (and I would add those who don't use that or necessarily any labels). They are human and don't like to be distracted from something they are focused on, so why pathologize that?
>
>
>
> > How about that? I was a daycare teacher for awhile too. I was also a live in Nanny for four years and the kids went thru exactly the same meltdown transition problems. My question, what do ADD'ers have in common with small children? I'm sure there's an answer somewhere in somebody's research.CarolAnnDJ
I agree that ADD is way over diagnosed, and used by many undiagnosed people to explain away things they do/don't do. My psychologist feels the same -way, that 's why it was several months before she confirmed her initial impressions of me, why i was tested for ADD, and why a couple of good pals also did took a test about me. Also, I had a long talk with a psychi. about it before she put me on adderal Self-described adder's need to check it out...it's like people who are a bit down one day that go on about their "major depression". I am reminded of my doc's comment one day about an earlier patient she had seen earlier. It seemed this woman attributed everything to her "add" --as in--"I misplaced my keys, must have been my ADD" or "I forgot to buy milk at the store, must have been my add" Of course, she did not have add!
Posted by S. Suggs on January 12, 2000, at 3:54:31
In reply to Re: Does it all ADD up?, posted by anna on January 11, 2000, at 17:25:57
Hello anna: I'll agree, there may be situations of add being over diagnosed. I'll confess that there have been times when I've done things (not thinking), the tendency is to place it on my
ADD-H. We are all human and make dumb mistakes all the time. The question is: Where do you draw that line of making these mistakes, why do you make them, have you always made them? etc....
It's a difficult diagnosis to make. I wish you many blessings,S. Suggs
Posted by janice on January 14, 2000, at 12:34:56
In reply to Re: ADHD & children...Introversion & Extraversion..., posted by S. Suggs on January 9, 2000, at 5:21:23
hi, I'm sorry I overlooked your posting from the last batch. I took the Myers-Brigg test also, and also tested as slightly introverted. From what I understand, most people remain loyal to their preference of introversion or extraversion throughout their lives. The difference is that people who prefer introversion will generally have to acquired a proficiency at extraversion to live in society (especially North American culture that values extraversion). Extraverts don't having any compelling reasons to develop their introversion, unless of course they have a major crisis in their lives.
you're right though, mental illness seems to encourage introversion (maybe only for people who are naturally introverted, I don't know). It must be biology prompting us to pay attention to ourselves. take care, Janice
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