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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by David Mirtzer on November 22, 1999, at 16:28:22
I read a business report about a year ago which mentioned that Bristol Myers Squibb was working on an extended-release formulation of Serzone.
Does anyone have info as to when Extended Release Serzone might be available?
Thanks,
DM
Posted by CraigF on November 22, 1999, at 18:00:53
In reply to Extended-Release Serzone, posted by David Mirtzer on November 22, 1999, at 16:28:22
I recently conducted a Sserzone search on line but didn't see anything to this effect. I'd love to know as soon as they do, however. I'd think it would be available by this point considering how long it's been on the market...
Speaking of Serzone, Ugghhhh! I'm around week five, and already been through the dizziness/spaciness and gotten used to that. The benefits seems so fragile, however. I'd notice better concentration, less worry, less depression, better casual social interactions, HOWEVER!!!!Although I'm doing better at work and the gym, I feel so distant and alone when out with a group of friends. I started feeling angry and frustrated and alienated.
I'm more depressed today than I've been for nearly two months. It seems that if I have more than two drinks, all the benefits are washed out of my system and the alienation feels worse for at least a week after. I had a few drinks on Friday and by Sat. I didn't want to talk to anyone. Same through sunday, and today I wanted to hit people (myself included) all day...so sad.
Do I have to go up a dose every time to compensate for casual drinking?? I'm at 300 mgs now. Is this how Serzone feels when it settles in? Yuck...I'm so damn blue on the outside and full of hateful bile on the inside (or is it the other way around?)
Prozac also reacted strangely with alcohol for me, although it made me super-anxious on Mondays/Tuesdays.
Sorry so long
Posted by Alyse on November 22, 1999, at 21:07:13
In reply to Re: XR Serzone AND THE BLUES, posted by CraigF on November 22, 1999, at 18:00:53
When the Dr, the pharmacist and the prescription insert all tell me not to use alcohol while on an antidepressant, I think it is pretty good advice not to feel like I can. Can't imagine what would cause me to think that a social drink would be more important than trying everything possible to get myself feeling well again. Be kind to yourself. You are the only one who can really give you all that T.L.C that is so important just now. Week 5 should not be a point at which you think you have reached optimum relief. Follow directions, eat well, go to bed early, exercise. Love yourself, you are worth it all.
Posted by Alyse on November 22, 1999, at 21:40:24
In reply to Re: XR Serzone AND THE BLUES, posted by Alyse on November 22, 1999, at 21:07:13
P.S. And don't drink since you know it causes problems. YOU are more important than alcohol. I am sure you have hard the old line "Doc, it hurts when I do this..." Doc answers, "Then don't do it!"
Posted by CarolAnn on November 23, 1999, at 8:23:30
In reply to Re: XR Serzone AND THE BLUES, posted by CraigF on November 22, 1999, at 18:00:53
Hey CraigF, I know how you feel. Although, I'm only on week two of Serzone, I am just a low as can be(spent this past Sunday, in bed, crying all day!) even though I haven't had a drink in quite a while. I have asked some experts about the alcohol thing, and they all say that it won't hurt you, it just might increase the depression. Still, I do like to have 2 or 3(no more than that)beers sometimes when out with friends. When I do this, I do find it enjoyable and just keep reminding myself that I will probably "pay" the next couple days. At least, I can have one evening of feeling somewhat "normal". When I was on Prozac, it was bad, because I would still get the "couple days" of being extra low, *but* I would get nothing from the alcohol(except incoordination). I had a saying about this: "all of the impairment, with none of the enjoyment!". Anyway, I'd love to keep in contact with you regarding the whole Serzone trip. CarolAnn
Posted by CraigF on November 23, 1999, at 17:51:45
In reply to Re:Serzone AND THE BLUES(me too,CraigF), posted by CarolAnn on November 23, 1999, at 8:23:30
Agreed, CarolAnn,
It seems we have a lot of the same experiences. my email is [email protected]. Feel free to contact me directly. Right now I primarily want to talk about Serzone, possibly Wellbutrin, how it affects others, and most importantly -- ME!
However, I don't want to use up all the posting space here...I'll have to change name once more...this time to NarcissaF
Craig
Posted by noa on November 24, 1999, at 22:24:30
In reply to Re:Serzone AND THE BLUES(me too,CraigF), posted by CarolAnn on November 23, 1999, at 8:23:30
I find this discussion interesting. My reaction comes from how desparate I am to fight my depression. I have had to give up a lot of what we all might consider normalcy to do so. Things that may seem minor, like how I used to want to stick to meds that were dosed only once a day, to avoid the inconvenience of multiple dosings per day. Over time, my depression has worsened and become more treatment resistent. If I knew then what I know now, I would have treated it more aggressively right off the bat, because letting myself be depressed repeatedly probably has contributed to subsequent recurrent cycles. So, when I read your posts about not wanting to give up alcohol, my reaction is one of frustration. Is an occasional social dring so important that you are willing to feel depressed for a few days? I hate my depression so much, I cannot imagine choosing alcohol over relief from depression. My advice is treat your depression as fully as possible now. To the extent you are able, don't let yourself have more depression. It not only feels awful, it might actually be priming your brain to head down a progressively worsening course of chronic or recurrent depression.
Posted by Jane on November 25, 1999, at 0:19:13
In reply to Re:Serzone AND THE BLUES(me too,CraigF), posted by noa on November 24, 1999, at 22:24:30
hi, im interested in learning more about your experiences with serzone - the clinical studies show that the "therapeutic range" for serzone is preferably around 400 mg/day or above, with maximum dose at 600 mg/day. sometimes if the patient has only a "partial response" to an antidepressant, the doctor may bump the dose up to higher or max allowed - what dosages of serzone are you guys on?
jane
Posted by Noa on November 25, 1999, at 7:36:52
In reply to Re:Serzone AND THE BLUES(me too,CraigF), posted by Jane on November 25, 1999, at 0:19:13
jane, I have only been on 150 mg, taken in the early evening, to augment effexor xr, and to counteract the sleep problems of the effexor. With this latest bout of depression, my doc told me I can up the serzone up to 250 if I want to, and it can all be taken in the evening. It makes me drowsy, which is a good thing at night, but I would not do well on a morning dose, I think. Originally he had instructed me to take it at night, but I found the effects taking a while to kick in, and then lasting well in to the am, making it hard to wake up. Two days ago, I went up on it by a quarter of a pill, which is 37.5 mg. I will do this for a week, then go up by another 37.5, and see how that is. I always titrate up very slowly on meds.
Posted by Alyse on November 25, 1999, at 11:19:40
In reply to Re:Serzone AND THE BLUES(me too,CraigF), posted by noa on November 24, 1999, at 22:24:30
Apparently, whether to try to do everything possible to help the meds do their stuff or not is indeed linked to how long one has suffered from depression and how desperate they are to do anything necessary to help themselves. I think I have a right to expect good results when I "follow directions." If the results don't come, at least I know it was nothing I caused. If you "play" you need to know you may have to "pay." Sure helps to know what really is NOT working without wondering if I have sabotaged my own success. There is a saying, if you play with a piece of coal, you can expect it will make you dirty. HOPING it won't is foolish. Even if I like to sit in the coal shed and play with coal for a few hours now and then just to FEEL NORMAL, I have no delusions that MAYBE this time it won't make me all dirty.
Posted by Alyse on November 25, 1999, at 12:03:58
In reply to Re:Serzone AND THE BLUES(me too,CraigF), posted by CarolAnn on November 23, 1999, at 8:23:30
CarolAnn Said: "I have asked some experts about the alcohol thing, and they all say that it won't hurt you, it just might increase the depression."
...That to me would be called "hurting you." Alyse
Posted by CarolAnn on November 26, 1999, at 8:35:04
In reply to Re:Serzone AND THE BLUES(me too,CraigF), posted by Alyse on November 25, 1999, at 12:03:58
Boy, I didn't know alcohol consumption was such a *hot* topic! For the record, I was only talking about having drinks once or twice a month. Also, most of you had the response that you don't drink at all because you will give up "anything" in hopes of getting better. Unfortunatly, some of us reach the point where we are so tired of trying so hard and still not feeling any better, that(even for only one evening), the "price" for a few hours of pleasantly altered brain chemistry, just doesn't seem all that high. Actually, I did go through a "no alcohol" period for the first couple years of attempting to find the right anti-depressant, but after a while the need for just a night or two a month of "real" laughter, overrides the fears of alcohol setback.
*Now, to Jane*: My doctor just put my Serzone dose up to 225 mgs a few days ago(after I spent a whole day crying in my bed!). I really haven't felt any difference at all, since beginning the medication almost 3 weeks ago. Also, I am on 300mgs. per day of Wellbutrin, which was prescribed first with the Serzone being added in because the Wellbutrin was having no effect what-so-ever. Actually, though, I am having one side effect from Serzone, my brain is like a sieve full of quicksand! My short term memory is shot, as well as what little coordination I use to have, and it can take me 2 or 3 minutes(if at all) to "find" specific words during conversations or while writing(this is kind of amusing, actually. I come up with some very funny substitutes for the words I really want!). My point is: I'll be happy to keep you posted, but you will have to remind me! CarolAnn
Posted by craigf on November 26, 1999, at 16:47:44
In reply to Re:Alcohol posts/ &(for Jane, my Serzone dose), posted by CarolAnn on November 26, 1999, at 8:35:04
regarding Carolann's post about wanting the "real laughter" maybe every one or two weeks, I concur.
However, the point about giving the meds an unfettered chance to work w/out alcohol interferrence is right too. My first posting on this topic was not asking permission to drink, rather I was trying to determine if the ceased efficacy was due to the alcohol of if was just my low dose, or even the way Serzone works.
Serzone kind of curbs my urge to drink, but it holds me back from feeling real intimacy. (my doctor, BTW, told me alcohol would not interfere with Serzone's efficacy; the insert, however, says to avoid it) I thought I drink or two could release some of that "real laughter" for a night, but it just makes me sleepy and grumpy...
enough of naming dwarfs. to answer an earlier question, my doctor told me to work up to 300mgs, but I added 50 on my own after a week at 300 as the anxiety returned (seemingly after a night of light drinking)
maybe I'll go up another fifty, but I'm afraid of the sleepiness. thinking also of adding WB.
Dee, keep us posted on your plans as well...
Posted by Jane on November 27, 1999, at 10:41:07
In reply to Re:Alcohol posts/ &(for Jane, my Serzone dose), posted by craigf on November 26, 1999, at 16:47:50
thanks guys for letting me know the doses! i dont know enough of how alcohol works biochemically to comment on drug-drug interactions although i'm sure that almost if not all medication product insert would advise against using alcohol when taking medication - one may be because of drug interactions but another may be lowered "sensibilities" leading to possible dangerous (to self or others) acts? i dont know. everything in moderation is good but in terms of medicines, sometimes the presence of one medicine raises the level of another medicine (which is what drug drug interactions are all about) and the level of the raised med may be to one that becomes dangerous to a person physically.
in terms of dosing serzone at night, ive heard of doctors who do this but not at bedtime, rather at dinner time which would follow with what noa said regarding serzone taking a while to kick in and may also help lessen the morning sedation?
thanks for your feedback!
jane
Posted by Malia on November 30, 1999, at 21:18:26
In reply to Re:Serzone AND THE BLUES(to CarolAnn), posted by CraigF on November 23, 1999, at 17:51:45
I'm back after a long absence.
I'm still on Serzone and Wellbutrin. I take 150mg of Wellbutrin in the morning, 100 of Serzone in the middle of the day, and 2-100's at bedtime. I've been handling my stress fairly well. I've also lost about 20 lbs since I went on AD's in August. Anyone else losing weight on Wellbutrin? It's amazing...I was a compulsive eater, esp with depression, and now I don't crave anything and only eat when I'm really, really hungry. This is good for me, because I'm not skinny...nor am I really obese either.
Posted by Jane on December 3, 1999, at 16:22:05
In reply to Serzone and Wellbutrin, posted by Malia on November 30, 1999, at 21:18:26
hi malia, welcome back! im a newbie on this forum :-)
im interested to hear your experience with this combination. do you know why your doc chose this particular combo of meds for you? also i just wanted to make sure: you take 150 mg wellbu in the am, then serzone for midday and bedtime - is that correct? your total serzone dose is 300 mg/day and wellbu dose is 150 mg/day?
wellbu, i've heard has been shown to affect weight and for some individuals has been shown to help lose weight. dont know exactly how it works though...
jane
Posted by Malia on December 10, 1999, at 21:46:48
In reply to Malia: Re: Serzone and Wellbutrin, posted by Jane on December 3, 1999, at 16:22:05
Hi and welcome too! I have noticed a remarkable difference in appetite on this combo. You were correct, that is exactly my med dose. I actually know when it's time to stop. Sometimes I even forget to eat. My doc said the Wellbutrin brings me "up" while the Serzone "calms" me down. I don't have extreme mood swings anymore. Sometimes I do feel apathetic though, and that's not always a good thing...like you don't feel anything when you should be somewhat bothered. Even so, I like the way it "evens" out my mood. I really do believe that there is a connection between overeating/being overweight and one's brain chemistry. Science is still examining that, but I really have experienced it and know they are connected. Cravings are induced by a lack of dopamine, seratonin, and norepinephrine somehow. You may correct me if you think I'm wrong. All I know is that I have more money in my wallet from not buying chocolate and junk food, and can finally wear my old jeans again!
~Malia~
Posted by laila on March 26, 2000, at 16:15:33
In reply to Re:Serzone AND THE BLUES(to CarolAnn), posted by CraigF on November 23, 1999, at 17:51:45
im on wellbutrin, but I dont feel any effects. Im also on prozac for depression, and the wellbutrin is for ADHD. I dont think its working. What should it be doing?
laila
Posted by CarolAnn on March 27, 2000, at 8:53:35
In reply to Re:Serzone AND THE BLUES(to CarolAnn), posted by laila on March 26, 2000, at 16:15:33
laila, it depends how long you've been taking the wellbutrin. it can take up to 12 weeks to start working.
Posted by Lydia on March 30, 2000, at 22:05:42
In reply to Re: wellbutrin (to laila), posted by CarolAnn on March 27, 2000, at 8:53:35
Just wondering if any of you had any of the following side effects. I was on Paxil for 4 months and gained 13 pounds. Have never weighed this much in my life, and I'm not eating any more than usual. The pharmacist told me that most antidepressants cause weight gain. So...my doctor switched my prescription to Wellbutrin. He told me to take 150 mg a day for two weeks then to increase the dosage to 150mg in the morning and 150mg in the evening. I feel awful...extremely dizzy, have lots of nausea, constant headaches and an overall feeling of ill health. Is this normal? Will this wear off with time? Have been on Wellbutrin for 1 week and was wondering if any of you had the same side effects. Please tell me I'll feel better soon. By the way, my appetite has diminished. Guess I'll lose weight but don't know how much longer I can tolerate these side effects! Help!
Posted by Cam W. on March 30, 2000, at 23:11:34
In reply to Wellbutrin Side Effects - (to anyone), posted by Lydia on March 30, 2000, at 22:05:42
Lydia - I had the same side effects for the first couple of weeks taking Wellbutrin, only you seem to be a little more sensitive to these effects than I was. The side effects for me have abated and I am definitely not as depressed as I once was. (I am presuming you are taking the SR - sustained release - version of Wellbutrin). If you feel this way after another 7 days, contact your doctor and tell him/her how you feel before increasing the dose.When (or if) you do increase the dose, do not take the evening dose after 4:00pm or you may have trouble sleeping. Remember to take the doses at least eight hours apart to reduce the risk of seizures (relatively low risk anyway).
I did not lose weight on Wellbutrin, but I did start an intensive exercise program at the same time (karate). I think I have put on more muscle, as it is harder to grab hold of my love handles. I still think my waist is too big, but I think I am letting society dictate what I should look like and not realizing that I am probably going to end up looking like (and acting like) my parents.
Maybe try taking the Wellbutrin with food, to see if this helps relieve some of the side effects. Good luck - Cam W.
Posted by Noelle on April 4, 2000, at 7:56:47
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin Side Effects - (to anyone), posted by Cam W. on March 30, 2000, at 23:11:34
I was put on Paxil in December to help alleviate migraines. After about 6 weeks, I felt wonderful...BUT...the side effects were enough to make me quit taking it...I gained 20 lbs in 2 months (for no reason...and I am not fat at all...this was the heaviest I've ever been in my life...talk about depressing!) My libido went from extremely healthy to not being able to have an orgasm EVER...nor did I really even care! I participate in many sports...and had lost my desire to do well. The competitive nature was gone. Lastly, my migraines were as bad as ever. Sooooo...my doc put me on Wellbutrin SR...I have lost 15 lbs in 2 weeks (for no reason...have had no appetite...am forcing myself to eat so I dont get dizzy) My libido seems to be the strongest it has EVER been! I feel great....AND...havent had a migraine since I started taking it!
Posted by Deb on April 4, 2000, at 21:31:51
In reply to Re: Malia: Re: Serzone and Wellbutrin, posted by Malia on December 10, 1999, at 21:46:48
hi malia,
i am also new to this.
i have been on paxil for the last 2 years and have found myself lathargic, depressed and obsessed with food. i think about food day and night, and partake in eating it.
my doctor perscripbed wellbutrin and i just picked up my perscription today. i am worried about the side-effects that people have been talking about. how are you getting along. have you had any side effects.
deb
Posted by Kathy on April 8, 2000, at 1:11:20
In reply to Re: Malia: Re: Serzone and Wellbutrin, posted by Deb on April 4, 2000, at 21:31:51
I have tried Prozac, Zoloft, and Celexa and each one made me gain weight. I am about 20 lbs. heavier than I've ever been and that is enough to make anyone depressed! I was just diagnosed with adult ADD and was put on Wellbutrin. I took 150 mg. in the morning for the first week and am now taking 150 mg. also in the afternoon. I feel nauseated almost all the time. If I'm eating I'm ok for a little while and then feel sick again. It sounds like alot of people have this side effect, but does the nausea really go away? I don't know if I can continue it, because I definitely feel it's reducing my quality of life right now. I heard that there are also 100 mg. pills. Does anyone take those and did it have any effect on the side effects? The plus is that I'm losing weight, but really don't want to feel like this all the time to do it. Kathy
Posted by KarenB on April 8, 2000, at 1:17:26
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin (to anyone), posted by Kathy on April 8, 2000, at 1:11:20
Kathy,
Don't have firsthand experience with this but I have heard really good things about the anti-nausea effects of ginger tea. You may want to give that a try. Ask your doc about lowering your dose, too. When I was taking Wellbutrin, that would have been way too much for me. I was smacking the pills in half (not easy to do with Wellbutrin).
Good Luck.
K
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