![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 2 to 26 of 38. Go back in thread:
Posted by Bob on November 10, 1999, at 22:03:17
In reply to "Coming out" to a loved one?, posted by Racer on November 10, 1999, at 21:02:10
Wow, Racer, what a thought!
I mean, partially because of my work (I tend to be around lots of psychologists of various flavors) and partially because I live in NYC (where everyone is either on meds, doing meditation, doing both, or really needs to be), this has always seemed like a given for me.
aCk! I getting stressed just thinking about it!
Bob
Posted by Racer on November 10, 1999, at 23:50:36
In reply to Re: "Coming out" to a loved one?, posted by Bob on November 10, 1999, at 22:03:17
>
> aCk! I getting stressed just thinking about it!
> BobYou were getting too stable, so I had to do something to knock you off balance again! ;-D
I think he'll understand, but I don't know how much I want him to know at this point, and there are all those worries: 'what if he doesn't like me as much anymore?' Still, it didn't seem to bother him too much when I told him that I was taking ADs.
After all these years of saying I live alone for a reason, I've found it's true: I was waiting for this man to come along... Scary thought, huh? He's not only perfect, he's my very own siamese twin separated before conception. Though he doesn't seem to have suffered severe depression.
So, cross your fingers for me, and thank goodness and the researchers for Effexor!
Posted by NHGrandma on November 11, 1999, at 8:10:28
In reply to Well, Bob..., posted by Racer on November 10, 1999, at 23:50:36
He's not only perfect, he's my very own siamese twin separated before conception. Though he doesn't seem to have suffered severe depression.
>
> So, cross your fingers for me, and thank goodness and the researchers for Effexor!I will not only cross my fingers I will also pray that you see your potential self-sabotage by moving in with him. If he is "perfect" he would not ask you to move in with him. He would work toward a relationship that would include a lifetime committment with unconditional love. "Moving in" is potentially asking for a subsequent "moving out." Have you ever listened to Dr. Laura? I have been following this board for over a year because I want to learn for the sake of my children/grandchildren. In a way, I have come to care deeply for many of you. Your posts have given me valuable insight into my own illness and treatment (I also am thankful for Effexor.) Please take this recommendation as one of concern and not judgment.
Posted by Noa on November 11, 1999, at 13:02:37
In reply to Re:"Coming out"--Moving in, posted by NHGrandma on November 11, 1999, at 8:10:28
Racer, I know people who have been able to reveal their struggles with mental disorders successsflly to romantic partners. Good luck.
As for the post from grandma, wow. I am intrigued to learn about someone who has been with us so consistently but reticent. You really pushed a button, for her to speak up.
Grandma, I think it is important for anyone to be very sure they are making decisions in their own best interest (run scenarios of different outcomes through your mind and try to sense how they might feel to you, affect you, etc. given your own vulnerabilities). But it is a huge leap, may I say with respect (tone is hard to convey in writing), to assume that moving in together is not right for Racer, or to imply that she is acceding to her boyfriend's request rather than it being a joint decision to consider this as their relationship progresses. I respect your traditional values, and you would use your values to make the decisions that would be right for you. But you don't know Racer and really don't have the ability to know what decisions are right for her.
As for Dr. Laura, I do not want to start a flame fest here, but I believe you might have kindled the first spark, Grandma. Trying to keep this civil, let me just register my opinion that I do not find Dr. Laura to be helpful to everyone. Sometimes she gives good advice. The problem is that she is a moralist and not a good listener. So many times, she is using people's vulnerabilities to spread her own views on morality. And she is, in my opinion, unethical for calling herself "DR" Laura, because her doctorate is in physiology not in any mental health field. I know she has some marital and family therapy training, but that does not give her a right to, in fact it should ethically preclude her from, using the title DR when she is not a DR of mental health.
Enough soapbox. You said you shared your opinion out of caring.
Posted by PL on November 11, 1999, at 13:32:23
In reply to "Coming out" to a loved one?, posted by Racer on November 10, 1999, at 21:02:10
Congratulation Racer!! He sounds wonderful. I feel that if you love him, he will love you no matter what. (It sounds like you found your soul mate!)
I have found that no matter how down we become, we have only one way to go, thats up. You are on your way.
Just remember that nothings perfect. When a relationship starts out it seems a lot more perfect than a year from then. But if its truly love, it will last forever!
Good Luck Racer! Keep it up!
Posted by Racer on November 11, 1999, at 17:55:09
In reply to Re: "Coming out" to a loved one?, posted by PL on November 11, 1999, at 13:32:23
Let's see, my question brought a lurker out in the open, provided fuel for a Dr Laura bonfire, and showed that PL is finally feeling better!
So, in reverse order:
Congratulations, PL!!! I'm so glad to hear such positive news and views from you! I remember your first posts here, and how much they touched me. I'm so happy to hear that you're getting some relief.
To Noa, thanks for jumping in, and much of what you said rang true.
To Grandma, thank you for your concern for me. It is nice to think that people care, whether or not you actually have met me face to face.
Now, to all of you, and anyone else who's listening:
This fellow is very much like me. When I say that he's perfect, I do not mean that he's "Perfect!", just that he's perfect for me. I've never felt this sort of connection to a man before, though I have felt the same thing before with women: and each of the women I've felt this connected to is still a close friend. What makes this different is beyond my ability to describe. We can talk about everything, and anything, and he doesn't think I'm weird for telling obscure jokes, and I don't object to his puns, and we get along great. I don't have to slow down t oallow him to catch up, he's always there with me.
And for living together: For years I've said that I never want to live with anyone ever again, and that I'd only marry a man who would buy a duplex and live next door to me. This is the first person I've ever dated that I could see sharing with. So, please don't think of this as crazed and impulsive. This is a tentative reaching out to make a good relationship better, rather than holding back to protect myself and thereby destroying trust and connection.
Does any of htat make sense?
Posted by Bob on November 11, 1999, at 19:23:31
In reply to Wow..., posted by Racer on November 11, 1999, at 17:55:09
It makes a lot of sense, Racer. It sounds like you've spent a lot of time thinking about this.
Now, *I'm* the one Grandma should be talking to! Just too impulsive and too impatient, and its kept me in a relationship that (for better or worse -- no way of telling now anyway) we both probably would have bailed on a long time ago. Economic codependence is one of today's worst "sins"....
Well, anyway, I say you'll know when to tell him. I also bet he has a secret or two that he's sweating buckets about telling you. Who doesn't have those sorts of things ... you know, like eating crackers in bed. Disgusting!
So how about this? A few days after you move in, have a little celebration. Candlelit dinner. A little wine. And then its "Time to spill a secret that won't be a secret much longer but I'm still stressing way too much over" time? Recommended music selections include Johnny Mathis and Mel Torme.
That. or I'm sure you can find a Hallmark card that says much the same thing with just a bit of research.
Bob
Posted by NHGrandma on November 11, 1999, at 19:35:35
In reply to Wow..., posted by Racer on November 11, 1999, at 17:55:09
> Let's see, my question brought a lurker out in the open, provided fuel for a Dr Laura bonfire, and showed that PL is finally feeling better!
I never thought of myself as a lurker but a "learner." This site has helped me through the last year in more ways than you will ever know. Whenever I was considering giving up on medication a post would give me knowledge to make an informed decision. When I couldn't tell anyone else that I felt like running away, I described my frustration in a post and many here showed empathy. I have felt that I had an understanding listening ear even when my concerns seemed insignificant.
>
>
> To Grandma, thank you for your concern for me. It is nice to think that people care, whether or not you actually have met me face to face.Isn't it true that most people visiting this site have never met face to face? Yet, I see much caring.
>
> Now, to all of you, and anyone else who's listening:Thanks for this open invitation to listen. It makes me feel more accepted as one who cares and wants to learn rather than as a "lurker."
>This is the first person I've ever dated that I could see sharing with. So, please don't think of this as crazed and impulsive. This is a tentative reaching out to make a good relationship better, rather than holding back to protect myself and thereby destroying trust and connection.
>
> Does any of htat make sense?I often hold back to protect myself. I've heard that same advice given many times here. So--no, it doesn't all make sense to me. What does make sense is that you want to be loved, accepted and cherished for who you are. You want companionship. You deserve it. I'm all for your having it. I'm just a compulsive protector and it continues to get me in trouble. Will I ever learn? I stand corrected on the Dr. Laura issue.
Grandma (very young one, too)
Posted by Racer on November 11, 1999, at 21:34:03
In reply to Re: Wow/Lurker, posted by NHGrandma on November 11, 1999, at 19:35:35
Lurker wasn't meant as a negative, just that you had been sitting back and watching without feeling as though you could/should/would join in before now. Or at least that you spoke up now.
It was meant as a good thing, not a jab. It is hard to make sure people understand what you mean wihtout the face to face, but I do try!
Welcome, Young Grandma! Glad to see you!
Posted by JohnL on November 12, 1999, at 3:20:40
In reply to "Coming out" to a loved one?, posted by Racer on November 10, 1999, at 21:02:10
Hi Racer. Being able to share everything seems particularly important to me of a solid relationship. Sharing your story with the new guy will bring out his true colors, for better or worse. That's good. If he's receptive and supporting, so much the better. If not, you just found out a darn good reason to suspect the relationship might not be all it was hoped for. And likely doomed anyway. I hope he truly cares and embraces your troubles as they come with the package, like it or not. Right? You wouldn't be the same wonderful person you are without having been where you've been.
As to NHGrandma, I respectfully agree with her. Not specifically in your case, but in any shack-up relationship. To discuss morals is one thing. That's another story. But the facts of life, proven in statistics, are...1)Shack-up relationships break up far more often than they stay together, 2)Shack-ups who later get married have the highest divorce rates. Those are the cold facts to be aware of. Your relationship will have a high statistical probability of falling apart, rather than strengthening, if you shack up.
I had shack-up girlfriends for many years before finally getting married to one of them. Sixteen years later we still have a great relationship. I now realize that statistically I am a blacksheep. A lucky one. If I could go back and do it all over, I don't think I would shack up. It takes a certain specialness away from the eventual wedding. Or from the future of the relationship. Nothing new. It's all been done already. The wedding is a formal connection, but the unique special qualities of marriage become old news before the wedding even happens. And as I look back, it seems to me the girls showed a lack of respect of me by willing to move in without tying the knot, and likewise I inadvertantly showed them lack of respect the same way. That's not true love. Granted it feels good and it's very convenient to have a lover on-site. But in the overall picture I don't think it's healthy in the longrun. And the statistics certainly show that to be true. Again, I don't direct these opinions to you, but to anyone considering shacking up. But I'm guilty. I've done it plenty. Just wouldn't do it again if I could go back with what I know now. :)
Posted by CarolAnn on November 12, 1999, at 16:50:25
In reply to "Coming out" to a loved one?, posted by Racer on November 10, 1999, at 21:02:10
Racer, when I met the man I am now married to, I explained depression this way:
I told him that I was being treated for a "chronic" condition. Just like some people have an illness called "Diabetes", I have an illness called "Depression".
Actually, in a way(a very small way), depression is better than diabetes. After all, diabetics will *never* be cured, insulin just keeps the condition under control. With depression, at least there is always the possibility that the right medication will be found and it will be the cure.
Anyway, I have found, in telling many loved ones about my depression, that the main thing is to help them understand the mechanics. Explaining that depression is a force that comes over some people and not some flaw in our sanity is the best way to help people learn what we deal with. Also, in any relationship, there will be problems if there is no confidence that the person will except *who* you are. Maybe, the best test of whether he is worthy of your love, will be seeing how he deals with the knowledge of your depression. Good Luck! CarolAnn
Posted by Adam on November 15, 1999, at 1:13:56
In reply to Re: "Coming out" to a loved one?(How I did it), posted by CarolAnn on November 12, 1999, at 16:50:25
I think I must respectfully disagree with at least one point: I would not say that depression, in all cases,
can be "cured". Rather, like diabetes, it is a chronic illness that can be managed, and that one can, with proper
treatment, lead a relatively normal and healthy life. I think it is only fair to describe depression in such
terms. Relapses can occur. Meds can poop out. Anyone who will share your life needs to know this, in my oppinion.This (the problem of "coming out") has certainly been an issue for me. I was suprised to read that Racer had gotten
to a point in her relationship where cohabitiation was being discussed before depression had been. To each their
own, of course, but I think I probably would discuss my illness before becoming "intimate," however you define this
state of the relationship. I don't think I could be intimate in the truest sense without such disclosure.
> Racer, when I met the man I am now married to, I explained depression this way:
> I told him that I was being treated for a "chronic" condition. Just like some people have an illness called "Diabetes", I have an illness called "Depression".
> Actually, in a way(a very small way), depression is better than diabetes. After all, diabetics will *never* be cured, insulin just keeps the condition under control. With depression, at least there is always the possibility that the right medication will be found and it will be the cure.
> Anyway, I have found, in telling many loved ones about my depression, that the main thing is to help them understand the mechanics. Explaining that depression is a force that comes over some people and not some flaw in our sanity is the best way to help people learn what we deal with. Also, in any relationship, there will be problems if there is no confidence that the person will except *who* you are. Maybe, the best test of whether he is worthy of your love, will be seeing how he deals with the knowledge of your depression. Good Luck! CarolAnn
Posted by CarolAnn on November 15, 1999, at 9:56:24
In reply to Re: "Coming out" to a loved one?(How I did it), posted by Adam on November 15, 1999, at 1:13:56
> I think I must respectfully disagree with at least one point: I would not say that depression, in all cases,
> can be "cured". Rather, like diabetes, it is a chronic illness that can be managed. Relapses can occur. Meds can poop out. Anyone who will share your life needs to know this, in my oppinion.
>
>Adam, you are absolutely RIGHT! I should have said that unlike Diabetics, people with depression will at least have *some*(even rarely) times when they have been successfully treated, and are in effect *well*. Whereas, people with diabetes are constantly in danger of physically worsening to the point of blindness, gangrene, diabetic coma, ect...
Also, I have to say that I agree with you on discussing one's depression before "becoming intimate".
One more thing....
To you and anyone else who happens to read this: You all have my utmost apologies for my recent spate of accidentally *empty* submissions! The Serzone I started last week has made me both mentally foggy and really clumsy(not to mention the fact that my typing and spelling are seemingly "Gone With The Wind"! Thanx for your patience. CarolAnn
Posted by Bob on November 15, 1999, at 10:49:31
In reply to "Butter fingers strikes again". THIS is to Adam., posted by CarolAnn on November 15, 1999, at 9:56:24
No, not YOU, CarolAnn ;^)
Before the CoE, who wants to wager on this: Which disroder will be the first to be actually cured by modern, developing treatment strategies such as gene therapy and the like: depression or diabetes? For the sake of fairness, you can specify one type of depression (DSM-IV category) and/or one type of diabetes (I or II). I'll call my bookie in Vegas to see what the odds are...
Now Racer, take this for what it's worth, but I say go on with the "blunder blindly ahead" strategy, which tends to work miraculously when you don't pay much attention to it. Move in. One day, he'll notice those pill bottles. Maybe you'll notice his. You'll be sneaking peeks at all sorts of things anyway. Eventually, it'll pop up somehow. But once you're in that economic codependence mode, there may be all the more incentive to smooth any ruffles.
On the other hand, there is that ageless advice: If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it was always yours. If not, hunt it down and kill it. =^P
Sorry, it's a monday.
Bob
Posted by Adam on November 15, 1999, at 13:35:00
In reply to A comedy of errors, posted by Bob on November 15, 1999, at 10:49:31
>One day, he'll notice those pill bottles
Well, in my case, it would be "what's that thing stuck to your shoulder?"
My money's on Type I diabetes, fwiw. Islet allografts transduced with antiapoptotic
gene(s) to protect against immunological attack. Slight enhanced risk of neoplasia could
be averted with drug-dependant cytotoxic gene (TK/gancyclovir, maybe), should the need arise.
Many years away, though. Gene therapy of any brain abnormality is vastly more complicated.As far as disclosure goes, like I said, to each their own. My question then is, if it's
not a big deal, why not discuss depression as soon as it's been established that this is
someone you can trust? How do you establish trust if you don't discuss these things?> No, not YOU, CarolAnn ;^)
>
> Before the CoE, who wants to wager on this: Which disroder will be the first to be actually cured by modern, developing treatment strategies such as gene therapy and the like: depression or diabetes? For the sake of fairness, you can specify one type of depression (DSM-IV category) and/or one type of diabetes (I or II). I'll call my bookie in Vegas to see what the odds are...
>
> Now Racer, take this for what it's worth, but I say go on with the "blunder blindly ahead" strategy, which tends to work miraculously when you don't pay much attention to it. Move in. One day, he'll notice those pill bottles. Maybe you'll notice his. You'll be sneaking peeks at all sorts of things anyway. Eventually, it'll pop up somehow. But once you're in that economic codependence mode, there may be all the more incentive to smooth any ruffles.
>
> On the other hand, there is that ageless advice: If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it was always yours. If not, hunt it down and kill it. =^P
>
> Sorry, it's a monday.
> Bob
Posted by Racer on November 15, 1999, at 14:02:00
In reply to A comedy of errors, posted by Bob on November 15, 1999, at 10:49:31
> Now Racer, take this for what it's worth, but I say go on with the "blunder blindly ahead" strategy, which tends to work miraculously when you don't pay much attention to it. Move in. One day, he'll notice those pill bottles. Maybe you'll notice his.
Funny thing, Bob, he's Type I diabetic, I'm Type II, and he already knows about the bottles, since the Effexor is inducing hypoglycemia in a big way right now! So, he knows about the pills, just not how bad my depression can get. He does know, though, that I have had at least one depression severe enough to require meds.
> On the other hand, there is that ageless advice: If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it was always yours. If not, hunt it down and kill it. =^P
Thanks for the ageless wisdom! I love the sentiment, and rumor has it that it's gonna be Monday all day long!
(BTW, my nasty little monster cat peed on my jeans last night, and I didn't notice until I got to class, and had to explain to the students why they smelled cat pee... Speaking of killing...)
Posted by Noa on November 16, 1999, at 2:23:19
In reply to Re: A comedy of errors, posted by Racer on November 15, 1999, at 14:02:00
Racer, LOL.
Carol Ann, I believe I recall reading something in the Serzone package insert about a keyboarding dysfunction as one of the infrequent, adverse effects.
Posted by CarolAnn(THIS one is the real post) on November 16, 1999, at 9:30:43
In reply to Good News, it's Tuesday, posted by Noa on November 16, 1999, at 2:23:19
> Carol Ann, I believe I recall reading something in the Serzone package insert about a keyboarding dysfunction as one of the infrequent, adverse effects.<<
Noa, Thanx for the info, I was beginning to think I had developed latent dyslexia!
Dr. Bob, You may have noticed a rash of "fake" submissions(from me) here lately. Is there any way to tweak the program so that a post will only get sent by hitting submit(NOT enter)?? I really think that my "enter" key is just too darn close to my "shift" key, not to mention my "quote mark" key. Or maybe it's just the *Serzone* typing! Thank you for your time. CarolAnn
Posted by Craig on November 16, 1999, at 18:13:52
In reply to Re: Good News, it's Tuesday(to Noa & Dr. Bob), posted by CarolAnn(THIS one is the real post) on November 16, 1999, at 9:30:43
Carol Ann:
Ditto on the typing ability and Serzone!!!
When I started back up on AD's a month ago, I looked forward to regaining my fast typing. Prozac-fortified me couldn't produce a typo even if me fingers were broken. But Serzone has made the typing effort worse if anything. the only saving grace is the two cups of coffee i drink after by daily doses to combat The Daze. I type well on coffee but can't really feel my fingers.
How's Serzone for you otherwise???
Posted by Bob on November 16, 1999, at 23:09:14
In reply to Re: Good News, it's Tuesday(to Noa & Dr. Bob), posted by Craig on November 16, 1999, at 18:13:52
It was one Monday of a Tuesday, and Wednesday's not looking much better ... looks like I picked a bad week to stop sniffing glue ... I mean, thank goodness I'm finally (for all intents and purposes) off Zoloft.
Well fine, Racer, glad to help on the ancient wisdom. Adam's right in getting down to brass tacks ... conversations like that are what builds trust inthe first place. Well, sounds like you're more onto the third or fourth place now, so some deeper trust-building conversations (especially since the pills are out in the open, figuratively and literally) may be in order.
So, here's some more ancient wisdom for you: You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't wipe your friends on the side of the couch.
(aside to CarolAnn ... your forms are getting posted with just an enter keystroke? What browser/platform are you working from? Multi-text field forms aren't supposed to do that....)
Bob
Posted by Noa on November 17, 1999, at 5:35:24
In reply to Re: Good News, it's Tuesday(sez you!), posted by Bob on November 16, 1999, at 23:09:14
Carol Anne, the package insert thing was an attempt at a joke, but it seems Craig has presented independent confirmation of keyboarding difficulties on Serzone.
Actually, when I first started on Serzone, I was quite groggy, and had some balance problems--found myself tripping a lot, walked like Frankenstein's monster in the morning, etc., so having some fine motor problems is not so far fetched to me. The good thing, is that these problems wore off after a while, as did the extreme agitation, emotionality, etc.
Posted by Noa on November 17, 1999, at 5:38:20
In reply to Re: Good News, it's Tuesday(sez you!), posted by Bob on November 16, 1999, at 23:09:14
Well, Bob, when I woke up Tuesday morning I was feeling rotten--dizzy and nauseous, so maybe you were right. Now it's Wednesday, 6:35 am, and while I should be in the car on my way to work, or at the very least in the shower, I am typing this post. So it might be a Monday of a Wednesday too.
Hang in there. BTW, the delays from your HR people are fuel for your complaint, no? Keep that dish cold, and bide your time.
Posted by Bob on November 17, 1999, at 14:56:11
In reply to Re: Good News, it's Tuesday(sez you!), posted by Noa on November 17, 1999, at 5:38:20
> BTW, the delays from your HR people are fuel for your complaint, no?
Ooooohohoho yes. Depends on how you want to portray her actions -- she participates in an illegitimate process to threaten my job based on my disability, she cares so little about it that she doesn't put it in her calendar, but then she requires that the meetings be rescheduled all the same. This is our director of human resources? I'm tempted to see how far I can push the law and see if I can file against her personally for civil rights violations.
... just my mad, but cool, panderings ....
Bob
Posted by Adam on November 17, 1999, at 17:07:07
In reply to That dish is chillin', posted by Bob on November 17, 1999, at 14:56:11
Best served cold, dude, best served cold. Not that I'm any good at following
my own advice.Case in point, much of my apprehension about cohabitation stems from my own rather
unhappy experience. I lived with someone for three years, and when we started out,
things were really pretty happy. But as time went on, things that didn't seem like
such a big deal in the beginning became significant problems that ultimately couldn't
be solved. How we neglected to share our feelings on certain very important subjects
(kids, vis-a-vis depression, esp.) is beyond me now, but I guess we were young and
in love and love conquers all, right? Why worry? Having to disengage youself from
someone you share practically everything with is an can be an excruciating experience.
I do believe it's better to have loved and lost, blah, blah, blah, but not to have lost
in quite such a heartbreaking way.
> ... just my mad, but cool, panderings ....
> Bob
Posted by Racer on November 18, 1999, at 0:51:34
In reply to Re: That dish is chillin', posted by Adam on November 17, 1999, at 17:07:07
Hey, folks, I've loved, lost, dusted off my pants and gotten back on the horse, OK?
Adam, I lived with someone too, that's why I vowed never to live with anyone else, ever again. I've said for years that I would marry the first man who promised to buy a duplex and live in the other half! This is the first man I've ever felt I could share with.
It's really scary, though. I know that we have so much in common that he's going to see through me, which scares the hell out of me.
But we ARE sharing. I've told him something that I'm more ashamed of than the depression: I never finished my BA. How's that for weird priorities? As it turns out, neither did he! It's getting better, in other words.
So, everyone, cross your fingers and spit for me, eh? But don't hold your breath over the fence, or your horse will do the same...
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