![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by Elizabeth on October 26, 1999, at 21:07:12
In reply to Re: Daughter's inapropriate sexual behavior, posted by BeenThere on October 20, 1999, at 12:02:53
> A. Daughter, dealing with that rush of hormones and possibly clinically depressed/biploar.
Woah, where did this diagnosis come from? Why do people feel a need to pathologize the normal expression of sexuality? At worst, the girl was getting some cheap thrills. She has a right to cheap thrills.
>She has probably been "screaming" for attention from her "important" father for a long
>time. Plus, the only power she has is to rattle YOUR cage!But she tried to conceal it from her parents. That doesn't sound like a cry for attention to me.
I don't think the father is in "denial." Remember that we are hearing just one of three (possibly more) sides of the story.
> Believe me, I know all about this because I was your daughter 30y ago. Not
> only was my father "absent" in my life but my parents fought constantly.I didn't see any indication that the girl's father is "absent." As a physician, he is probably *busy*, but that is a far cry from absent.
I think you might be projecting some of your own stuff onto this story.
> In addition, I was sexually molested by my grandfather. This may or may not
> be the case with her but don't rule it out.Umm, I think this is premature. Cybersex does not equate to sexual molestation. I see no indication that this girl is being or has been sexually molested either.
> Don't quit! try to get the entire family
> involved in counseling - if possible you might look into an "intervention" if
> you have some trusted friends/peers.Just what sort of "intervention" did you have in mind? Does this involve removing the girl from her home, having her committed to an institution, brainwashing, all of the above, ...?
Posted by Elizabeth on October 26, 1999, at 21:10:16
In reply to Re: Daughter's inapropriate sexual behavior, posted by Noa on October 20, 1999, at 20:02:58
> I agree with the idea of family therapy. If your daughter never leaves your side, she is obviously struggling with some issues around separation-individuation.
I'm sort of wondering if that part was meant literally. A 14-year-old with separation anxiety? That's atypical, to say the least.
>Perhaps her internet exploits are a "safe" way to act out the scary feelings she might have about wanting to explore life as a separate individual, a sexual one at that.
So the solution is to eliminate the "safe" way to express her sexuality, leaving her with only the less "safe" ways...?
>It also seems like she is rattling your cage, and trying to rattle her father's.
I'd like to hear from the daughter and the father about this one, actually. I think we have only gotten one oversimplified side of a possibly complicated story.
Posted by Elizabeth on October 26, 1999, at 21:40:36
In reply to Re: Daughter's inapropriate sexual behavior, posted by Diane on October 23, 1999, at 12:37:56
Ahh. "Children's rights," Hillary Clinton style. "Freedom from" rather than "freedom to." That's *so* 15 years ago!
>http://netaddiction.com/cybersexual_addiction.htm
As far as I can tell, the only problem with "internet addiction" (really more of a bad habit than a true addiction) is that it takes up lots of time and distracts you from your work!
> You need to somehow gain her friendship.
Forcing her into therapy, cutting her off of the 'net, "getting the police involved," and telling her she's degraded herself. What terrific ways to gain her friendship.
(That was dripping with sarcasm, in case you can't tell.)
> She needs someone
> who is not going to shame her further than she has already done her self. Someone
> who respects her as a fellow human being (not as an insignificant 14 yr old).Someone who respected her as a human being rather than as an "insignificant 14 yr old" would not interfere with her personal autonomy.
> I'm sure she is feeling shame. Shame will clam a person up tighter than S-200 glue.
Perhaps because her own *mother* is sending her the message that she has "degraded" herself by engaging in sexual talk on the internet????
> Seems to me that being that your husband is in the medical field he should be able to
> get her EXCELLENT help....or he'd be able to realize that there's nothing pathological about her behavior.
> I am surprised that having the Police involved didn't wake her up! Whew!
> What did the Police do anyway? Did they track down the 18yr old boy?What crime would he be guilty of?
> Is she sexually active? or is this strictly keyboard weirdness?
> In other words does she really know what the heck she is talking (typing) about?
> Where is she getting all her ideas? She must have some sort of real life experience.Umm, I dunno about you, but I learned about sex long before I ever inserted tab A in slot B.
(Perhaps she learned on the internet? I bet her mother never discussed sex with her.)
> She's got big problems if she is. She needs friends, friends,
> friends right now.I agree. She needs some support, not the invalidation that she has been getting. (I mean, the police? Jeez.)
> Get her away from the keyboard.
>
> Get her some kind of under the table job (I know she's under age but I'm sure in a
> small town something can be worked out). Having a job will make her feel worthy
> especially if she is not doing well in school or is a loner, depressed etc. It will improve
> her all the way around.Gigi said her daughter is artistic. Perhaps she could make some good money in web page design.
> How about hormones? Over active ones. Have some blood test taken.
*All* teenagers have overactive hormones.
> Is she into drugs? Ecstasy(MDMA) that's a sex drug right?
Actually MDMA is an empathogen. It usually makes sex difficult, I believe (although people tend to get touchy-feely on it in a nonsexual way).
> Introduced me to
> nature, health, myself, others, all kinds of other things.I think that experimenting with cybersex could introduce one to nature, health, oneself, others, and all kinds of other things as well. Not to put down backpacking or anything, that's good too. It's all good.
> I know that is just a temporary diversion but who knows what she might get out of it.
Poison oak?
> Invest in some content blocking software (CyberPatrol© and NetNanny©, SurfWatch)
> There's all kinds out there. Ask your local school board what they use."This web site content free for your protection."
(I think Paul already provided a pointer to the Censorware Project site.)
Posted by Paul on October 26, 1999, at 22:04:11
In reply to Daughter's inapropriate sexual behavior, posted by Gigi on October 20, 1999, at 8:29:02
> I have a beautiful, extremely artistically talented 14 y-o daughter. My problem started last year with an internet affair between "Jane" and an 18 yo male.
What in God's name is an "internet affair?" Cybersex is not an affair, it's *chatting*, albeit dirty chatting. It's just *words*.
> It developed into an obsession and included alot of sexual verbal contact.
Obsession? How did you go about diagnosing this "obsession?"
Sexual verbal contact is better than sexual oral contact. Be happy with what you have.
> To make a long story short, we had the police involved
This is where it gets ugly. What possible excuse do you have for bring law enforcement authorities in to police the private conversations of your daughter and another individual over the internet (or any other medium)? You have no role in this conversation. The police have even less of a role, one also hopes.
> and ended up taking her to therapy for a while.
What exactly was the therapy supposed to cure her of? Her sex drive? Do you not want grandchildren?
This sounds suspiciously like "deprogramming" to me.
> It took a long time to get our trust level back and I thought things were fine.
Next time, butt out of her business, and maybe she will one day be able to risk trusting you again.
> I discovered the other day a letter she had written that was very explicit.
So you're reading her mail too now? Have you tapped her phone? Do you have her followed at school? Are private detectives involved?
> She is the type of child who is afraid to leave my side, but is another person when on the computer.
2 words: overprotective mother.
Maybe when you let her leave her side, she could express her own personality (heaven forbid).
> My problem/question is, where could this have come from.
She's a teenager. Deal.
> No one in my family has ever been like this and I don't know how to handle the situation.
What, there's been no sex in your family? I assume she's adopted, then (or perhaps you availed yourself of the miracles of modern technology)?
> Do I take her back to therapy, I would really like to know why she feels she has to degrade herself like this.
I was not aware that a little bit of relatively innocent sexual chat constituted a form of degradation. Is it degrading for young women to have sexual desires and express them in words? Would it be degrading if she were male?
> You have to understand that my husband is a very prominant physician in a fairly small town-he also is in complete denial that anything is wrong.
Maybe you should ask him about a little thing called "adolescence." I believe they go into this at most reputable medical schools.
> This is not something that I want anyone here to know about.
So you post it on an international forum...makes perfect sense.
Visit Yahoo. Search for teen chat. Read the contents. Your daughter is not alone in her time of trial. (And perhaps reading some of said content would loosen you up.)
Please. Let your daughter explore her sexuality in a safe place like a harmless internet chat room without getting police and therapists and God only knows who else involved in her personal life.
Posted by Bob on October 26, 1999, at 22:21:46
In reply to Re: Daughter's inapropriate sexual behavior, posted by Paul on October 26, 1999, at 22:04:11
Lots of heat but not much light.
Gigi came here for some advice, and instead she gets napalmed. While I agree that she has gone about this the wrong way, the posts I've been reading remind me of what my grandma always used to say:
"When you start pointing a finger, remember there are three pointing back at you."
Or, to quote Dr. Bob:
"Please be civil"
Now, does anyone have any advice for Gigi that she may actually want to read and take to heart? Anything that might HELP her instead of fry her? Can anyone here treat her any differently from the way she's been accused of treating her daughter?
Any return flames gladly accepted via email. No need to keep it going on here. Thanks.
Bob
Posted by Adam on October 26, 1999, at 23:46:51
In reply to Daughter's inapropriate sexual behavior, posted by Gigi on October 20, 1999, at 8:29:02
Elizabeth, I so love reading your posts sometimes that I forget how much sarcasm never got me
anywhere with anybody unless they knew me well. But you can rip into me now, if you like, I'm
fairly immune!Anyway, I generally agree with what you have said. I find it interesting that a 14-year old girl
would be so caught up with the whole cybersex thing. But this is surely just a sign of my ignorance
of the workings of the mind of a 14-year old girl. If the internet were as well-developed as it
is now when I was that age, and I had access, oh my goodness, heaven only knows what the unfocused
hornyness one experiences at that age would have brought me to.I'm sure after my parents found me helplessly transfixed by some god-awful porn site they would
have wanted to get my head examined, or, well, actually, they probably just would have punished me
and made me feel like a filthy little pervert, and the best I could hope for would be, at some much
later date, lame attempts at humor centering around hairy palms and blindness. Which, of course,
would have been no help at all.I'm sure you mean well, Gigi, and your concern is admirable. You are protective of your daughter,
and you mean well, I'm sure. But I think it's true: the most dangerous message she might get at
this point is that she's sick and/or a victim. That possibly her first "sexual" encounter lead to
the involvment of law inforcement and psychoanalysis might give her just that impression. That you
could find her behavior so shocking and embarassing (concerns about the community, your daughter
being labeled a slut perhaps) is not so suprising given the generation gap. But let's face it, it's
the end of the 90s and sex is just plain everywhere. The 60s were nothing compared to this. Back
then it was counterculture, these days its so ingrained you can't sell toothpaste practically without
the promise it will induce involuntary orgasms in anyone who draws near the user. It's an incredible
world now.You may just want to get her to trust you so she can discuss sex openly and learn to deal with the
difference between fantasy and reality. Of course she'll try to sneak around you with stuff like
this, because she's embarassed! I think a certain amount of obsession at that age is pretty normal.
Damned if I could figure out my sister's fixation with New Kids on the Block, and it seemed pretty
sick to me at the time, but she got over it on her own. If I had tried to force good musical taste
or a sense of shame on her I sure I would have just alienated her from punk and 80s alt rock (which
inexplicably gave my parents white hairs) and created an incurable philistine.OK, this is meant as pure Horatian satire here. I think your daughter is probably OK. Maybe a
little precocious, but it sounds like this is true of her in general. Of course you should
discourage her from getting involved in things she is not mature enough to handle yet (though what
she CAN handle at this point might suprise you). But she's got to be able to know she can talk
about sex with you or she will sneak around and she might get into some kind of trouble down the
road. Are you substituting therapy for frank and open-minded discussion?> I have a beautiful, extremely artistically talented 14 y-o daughter. My problem started last year with an internet affair between "Jane" and an 18 yo male. It developed into an obsession and included alot of sexual verbal contact. To make a long story short, we had the police involved and ended up taking her to therapy for a while. She seemed to be okay and we stopped the therapy (she refused to go anymore saying she was fine), It took a long time to get our trust level back and I thought things were fine. She was off the internet completely for a while, but she was eventually allowed to go back with supervision. I discovered the other day a letter she had written that was very explicit. She is the type of child who is afraid to leave my side, but is another person when on the computer. My problem/question is, where could this have come from. No one in my family has ever been like this and I don't know how to handle the situation. Do I take her back to therapy, I would really like to know why she feels she has to degrade herself like this. You have to understand that my husband is a very prominant physician in a fairly small town-he also is in complete denial that anything is wrong. This is not something that I want anyone here to know about. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Gigi
Posted by Paul on October 28, 1999, at 1:25:23
In reply to It's getting hot in here ...., posted by Bob on October 26, 1999, at 22:21:46
> "When you start pointing a finger, remember there are three pointing back at you."
Point away.
> Now, does anyone have any advice for Gigi that she may actually want to read and take to heart?
All "heat" aside, my comments were entirely in good faith. Gigi needs to "read and take to heart" the fact that nothing she's told us provides any indication that there is anything wrong with her daughter. The suggestion that she lighten up a little was also in good faith. Sometimes, when parents take knee-jerk emotional responses [see the restless legs syndrome thread], and others go so far as to suggest censorship, and police and therapists become involved, a little heat is necessary in order to get people to see the light.
Let's cook.
> Anything that might HELP her instead of fry her? Can anyone here treat her any differently from the way she's been accused of treating her daughter?
Okay. Tell you this. You call the cops on her, I'll drag her to a therapist. Then we will be treating her as she has been treating her daughter. In fact, she would do well to treat her daughter the way that I and others have been treating her - i.e., *talking* about a problem (albeit warmly) rather than bringing in putative authority figures to enforce her will.
> Any return flames gladly accepted via email. No need to keep it going on here. Thanks.
>
> Bob
Posted by Gigi on October 28, 1999, at 7:00:46
In reply to Where there's smoke, there's fire...., posted by Paul on October 28, 1999, at 1:25:23
Just to let you know, the reason I got the police involved was that this idiot sent her a video of himself masturbating. I think that is justification alone. I was terrified for her saftey at the time. I had never dealt with this type of situation. I may have overreacted, but at the time, I was on my own and did the first thing that came to mind, and I thought this guy was an internet predetor. I do appreciate the thoughts about "chilling out". I will try that approach and we'll see what happens. Gigi
Posted by Paul on October 28, 1999, at 10:04:58
In reply to Re: Where there's smoke, there's fire...., posted by Gigi on October 28, 1999, at 7:00:46
Dear Gigi,
That masturbation thing does sound somewhat worrisome, if only because I can't personally imagine sending that kind of thing to a 14-year-old when I was 18. Or now. Or any other time. So that changes things!
It might be a good idea to keep your daughter away from this particular (potentially predatory) person while not stifling her natural development. Just remember: because there's one perv out there on the internet doesn't mean they're all like that.
I hope that your relationship with your daughter grows and stays healthy and that you can help her learn to distinguish between safe and dangerous sexualized play (over the internet or anywhere else).
Posted by Eve on October 28, 1999, at 11:16:20
In reply to Re: Where there's smoke, there's fire...., posted by Paul on October 28, 1999, at 10:04:58
It doesn't just sound worriesome, it sounds down right dangerous. There ARE perverts out there who have done much worse than send videos. (This alone IS ABSOLUTELY cause for calling police, however.) Children have been abducted and much worse from this type of activity. Too many parents have learned this the hard way. Internet contact with children can be EXTREMELY dangerous. Gigi, your husband surely became involved after the police were called, did he not? Dangerous pedophiles have posed as 18 year old boys before, when they, in fact, were even more than "Dirty, old men." Get real folks.
Posted by PL on October 28, 1999, at 12:24:08
In reply to Re: Where there's smoke, there's fire...., posted by Paul on October 28, 1999, at 10:04:58
I have a 15 year old daugher. She goes on the internet and loves to "Crash" chat rooms. She will go to the religious sites and say shes the devil. (She likes that best.) Also the sex sits and somestimes "assumes" a male persona, lesbian, whatever. I call this creativity. She is normal. Not a split personality. Not a manic deprssive. But very creative.
She has received pictures, not vidos that I know of, of similar things that GiGi's daugher received from the "preditor". She laughs about it. So do I.
How do I know all this? I ask her and she tells me. I tell her the fact that she is NOT to give anyone her real name or address. And I know she would not. She is no stupid. She knows right from wrong and has fantastic common sence along with a fantastic sence of humor.
I remember when I was 15. ALL I thought about was sex. (Even when I was 12.) A bump in the road was a phallus. I wanted bigger breasts. And I read dirty magazines. (As far as I know my parents were unaware.) When the time comes for my daugher to venture to the next step in her sexual development, I am sure she will come to me for advise. Most kids nowadays go to the next step by 16.
Good Luck GiGi.
Posted by Dysthymic Duck on October 28, 1999, at 20:19:36
In reply to Re: Where there's smoke, there's fire...., posted by Gigi on October 28, 1999, at 7:00:46
> Just to let you know, the reason I got the police involved was that this idiot sent her a video of himself masturbating. I think that is justification alone. I was terrified for her saftey at the time. I had never dealt with this type of situation. I may have overreacted, but at the time, I was on my own and did the first thing that came to mind, and I thought this guy was an internet predetor. I do appreciate the thoughts about "chilling out". I will try that approach and we'll see what happens. Gigi
I know "I agree" posts aren't good netiquitte, but
I just want to emphazise my agreement with Eve.
That guy sending a tape like that to a 14 year-
old makes me question his judgement not to do
worse. And then that he your address is very
scary indeed. I can see why you got the police
involved. Your daughter really needs to understand
why you NEVER EVER give your address out on the
internet.Well, if least one good thing (as good as
can be in such a situation): if he ever tries to
approach or stalk your daughter you and the
police will know what he looks like.It's too bad, to say the very least, that she had
to end up meeting such a person on the 'net, for
what could've been some innocent, frivolous, and
probably soon forgotten, exploration and safe fun,
with someone with sme decency and sense.Good luck.
Posted by Colleen on October 29, 1999, at 1:31:00
In reply to Re: Where there's smoke, there's fire...., posted by Dysthymic Duck on October 28, 1999, at 20:19:36
I can't believe what I'm reading hear. I bet most of you have never had a daughter
where the natural thing to do is to protect them.
It's quite ironic that after Gigi gave further details of the 18
year old sending the video that some people
changed there minds. I would have done something similar
as
Gigi did. As parents you worry about preditors on the
internet, or in life for that matter and you want to protect.
Yes most teenagers are sexually aware but
with the way our society is now a days a parent
can not be relaxed about letting their childern
experiment with their sexuality due to dangers
(AIDS, Date Rape etc...).
Most 14 year olds are too naive to realize that someone
can harm them and will continue to fall into
there trap. That is where a parent needs to step in.My two cents worth
Posted by Elizabeth on October 29, 1999, at 16:28:39
In reply to Re: Where there's smoke, there's fire...., posted by Colleen on October 29, 1999, at 1:31:00
First, a note to Gigi: I was impressed that you took the time and effort to read and consider the enormous response your post has generated. I hope you and your daughter are able to repair the damage that this incident has done to your relationship. Perhaps you will both be able to learn some things that will bring you closer together in the long run.
> I can't believe what I'm reading hear. I bet most of you have never had a daughter
> where the natural thing to do is to protect them.Have you *been* a daughter recently? Do you remember being 14? I do - that was the year I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder - and if dirty conversations over the internet had been my only worry, life would have been great.
>It's quite ironic that after Gigi gave further details of the 18
>year old sending the video that some people
changed there minds.It's not ironic at all. A critical piece of information had been left out. It sounded like the police had been called based on nothing more than an exchange of naughty emails (or chat room trysts, or similar).
> Yes most teenagers are sexually aware but
> with the way our society is now a days a parent
> can not be relaxed about letting their childern
> experiment with their sexuality due to dangers
> (AIDS, Date Rape etc...).I agree that parents should protect their children, but how they go about doing so is also important. A healthy way to allow a child to grow is to be open with her and teach her how to keep herself safe.
Had I been in Gigi's situation, I would have had a long talk with my daughter about associating with strangers and in particular about giving them her address or phone number. I would not have punished her or pathologized her for her mistake.
I am still not sure if calling the police in was an entirely appropriate thing to do, though it no longer seems completely outrageous in light of this new piece of information...in particular, I have trouble faulting the guy for his actions if he didn't know that Gigi's daughter is just 14 - quite possible, the internet being what it is. If that was the case, I probably would have just called him, explained the situation, and asked him not to have any further contact with the girl.
> Most 14 year olds are too naive to realize that someone
> can harm them and will continue to fall into
> there trap. That is where a parent needs to step in.If a 14-year-old is that naive, it comes from lack of education, not simply from being 14. When I was little, "don't talk to strangers" was a common line. The world has changed a bit since then, and things are more complicated. Parents really do need to be open with their kids about the kinds of things that go on over the net, if they are to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the first place.
Anyway, if a parent assumes that her 14-year-old won't take full (dis)advantage of everything the internet has to offer, isn't *that* naive? (I'm not faulting anyone for being naive, just pointing out that it goes both ways.)
Posted by saint james on October 29, 1999, at 17:04:59
In reply to Re: Where there's smoke, there's fire...., posted by Colleen on October 29, 1999, at 1:31:00
> I can't believe what I'm reading hear. I bet most of you have never had a daughter
james here....Hmmm.... I don't do chat because no one is who they say they are. Kids never represent themselves
as children and often one finds themselves talking to a 13 y/o with a good vocabulary !I like the idea of contacting this man and let him know he has been talking to a 14 y/o. Don't assume your daughter was truthful about her age.
Your child is going to find out about sex one way or another. You have the choice to educate her yourself or let her do it on her own. If you are not comfortable with this there are a number of books that she can read (you can preview these to see which agree with you)
To me, if you make a big deal about this, you are sending the msg that sex is scary, dirty, ect. This is a sure fire way to get a teen intrested in something !
j
Posted by katie on November 3, 1999, at 13:30:55
In reply to Re: Where there's smoke, there's fire...., posted by saint james on October 29, 1999, at 17:04:59
> > I can't believe what I'm reading hear. I bet most of you have never had a daughter
>
>
> james here....
>
> Hmmm.... I don't do chat because no one is who they say they are. Kids never represent themselves
> as children and often one finds themselves talking to a 13 y/o with a good vocabulary !
>
> I like the idea of contacting this man and let him know he has been talking to a 14 y/o. Don't assume your daughter was truthful about her age.
>
> Your child is going to find out about sex one way or another. You have the choice to educate her yourself or let her do it on her own. If you are not comfortable with this there are a number of books that she can read (you can preview these to see which agree with you)
>
> To me, if you make a big deal about this, you are sending the msg that sex is scary, dirty, ect. This is a sure fire way to get a teen intrested in something !
>> j
************this is too much. Get her off the site and away from the problem!Bad news waiting to happen if you don't exercise some authority.
Posted by katie on November 3, 1999, at 14:33:57
In reply to My Personal Experience Regarding Daughers and Sex, posted by PL on October 28, 1999, at 12:24:08
> I have a 15 year old daugher. She goes on the internet and loves to "Crash" chat rooms. She will go to the religious sites and say shes the devil. (She likes that best.) Also the sex sits and somestimes "assumes" a male persona, lesbian, whatever. I call this creativity. She is normal. Not a split personality. Not a manic deprssive. But very creative.
>
> She has received pictures, not vidos that I know of, of similar things that GiGi's daugher received from the "preditor". She laughs about it. So do I.
> ***********
laugh, huh?*******Ya know I'm about sick of this liberal, pansy board. Some of you people have no spines. This page won't be bookmarked any more. It's been a real waste of time.*****************
> How do I know all this? I ask her and she tells me. I tell her the fact that she is NOT to give anyone her real name or address. And I know she would not. She is no stupid. She knows right from wrong and has fantastic common sence along with a fantastic sence of humor.
>
> I remember when I was 15. ALL I thought about was sex. (Even when I was 12.) A bump in the road was a phallus. I wanted bigger breasts. And I read dirty magazines. (As far as I know my parents were unaware.) When the time comes for my daugher to venture to the next step in her sexual development, I am sure she will come to me for advise. Most kids nowadays go to the next step by 16.
>
> Good Luck GiGi.
Posted by Adam on November 4, 1999, at 1:00:32
In reply to Re: My Personal Experience Regarding Daughers and Sex, posted by katie on November 3, 1999, at 14:33:57
I've followed this thread with interest, and, uh...spineless, pansy-ish? I think not. Liberal? Sure.
First, Gigi, thanks for sharing the part about the video. Clearly the situation was somewhat more serious than I first thought. Honestly, I initially believed
your methods of dealing with the problem were a damaging overreaction. Now I see it as one of several possible reactions. I will stand by some of my initial
feelings, however: I don't think there's anything wrong with your daughter, I don't think she has degraded herself, and I don't think she needs therapy as much
as she needs a closer relationship with you and her father. At her age, if there are issues with intimacy (fantasy vs. reality, sexuality with real-life peers
or disembodied internet paramours), your love and trust will do more good than anything any therapist can do. Even at that tender age, she is a sexual being. And
she will be having real sex with real boys or girls before too long, and there need to be open lines of communication, and, like I said, trust. Chances are you
won't know (and won't want to know) everything, but you'll know enough to protect her, and, most importantly, help her protect herself.> > I have a 15 year old daugher. She goes on the internet and loves to "Crash" chat rooms. She will go to the religious sites and say shes the devil. (She likes that best.) Also the sex sits and somestimes "assumes" a male persona, lesbian, whatever. I call this creativity. She is normal. Not a split personality. Not a manic deprssive. But very creative.
> >
> > She has received pictures, not vidos that I know of, of similar things that GiGi's daugher received from the "preditor". She laughs about it. So do I.
> > ***********
> laugh, huh?
>
> *******Ya know I'm about sick of this liberal, pansy board. Some of you people have no spines. This page won't be bookmarked any more. It's been a real waste of time.*****************
>
>
>
> > How do I know all this? I ask her and she tells me. I tell her the fact that she is NOT to give anyone her real name or address. And I know she would not. She is no stupid. She knows right from wrong and has fantastic common sence along with a fantastic sence of humor.
> >
> > I remember when I was 15. ALL I thought about was sex. (Even when I was 12.) A bump in the road was a phallus. I wanted bigger breasts. And I read dirty magazines. (As far as I know my parents were unaware.) When the time comes for my daugher to venture to the next step in her sexual development, I am sure she will come to me for advise. Most kids nowadays go to the next step by 16.
> >
> > Good Luck GiGi.
Posted by Bob on November 4, 1999, at 8:36:31
In reply to Re: My Personal Experience Regarding Daughers and Sex, posted by katie on November 3, 1999, at 14:33:57
> *******Ya know I'm about sick of this liberal, pansy board. Some of you people have no spines. This page won't be bookmarked any more. It's been a real waste of time.*****************
Oh, c'mon, Katie! You can do better than that ... I could rip myself to shreds with self-criticism ten times better than your weak attempt at flaming this board by the time I was nine years old! Spineless? really?! Who didn't sign their post with an e-mail attached to it?
Don't let the door hit you too hard in the rear on your way out.
Cheers,
BobPS. As always, personal flames cheerfully accepted by private post. But Katie, don't waste the time of the good folks here looking for help with something public.
PPS. Sorry, Dr. Bob, but I did try to keep it as civil as I could.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 5, 1999, at 23:31:06
In reply to Katie: Seeya! (with apologies to Dr. Bob), posted by Bob on November 4, 1999, at 8:36:31
> PS. As always, personal flames cheerfully accepted by private post...
>
> PPS. Sorry, Dr. Bob, but I did try to keep it as civil as I could.The apologies shouldn't be to me!
If someone isn't sure a message they're thinking about posting is civil (anticipating flames is one indication), then it would probably be better if they didn't just go ahead and post it anyway.
I like the earlier suggestion: to check the moon, have a cup of herbal tea, and then decide if they really needed to jump all over someone who's struggling with their own demons.
Weary Bob
Posted by saint james on November 6, 1999, at 6:08:05
In reply to Re: apologies to whom?, posted by Dr. Bob on November 5, 1999, at 23:31:06
I agree the net is not a place for kids to roam free. There are good options. Get an AOL account,
set up ID for your kid, AOL uses a 3d party content filter like "Net Nanny" with several levels of access depending on age. parents can set additional restrictions and only the parent ID can change this. If you don't like AOL you can go direct to "Net Nanny" (or search under "net filter") to pick one you like. The supreme court says public librarys and other public places cannot filter, I support this, however i would like to see "Kids Areas" in librarys so they can access the internet w/o harm.james
Posted by Bob on November 6, 1999, at 7:25:11
In reply to kids and internet, posted by saint james on November 6, 1999, at 6:08:05
> ... The supreme court says public librarys and other public places cannot filter, I support this, however i would like to see "Kids Areas" in librarys so they can access the internet w/o harm.
It could all be so easy if the W3C would just include a META tag in the standard that allowed for a rating system like that of the movies, so responsible sites could rate themselves. (Yes, I've proposed it to them via email several times ... no reply.)
Back around 1995 or so, one of the Macintosh pundits proposed a game along the same lines of "6 degress of Kevin Bacon" where you got a random URL and you tried to hit a smut site within six clicks from that page. Who knows? You can probably do it in three or four nowadays.
Bob
Posted by Adam on November 7, 1999, at 20:14:34
In reply to kids and internet, posted by saint james on November 6, 1999, at 6:08:05
It is a slippery slope. On this very site, the word "fuck" has been used a number of times, we openly discuss issues
of sexuality, we talk about illicit drug use. This is not a porn site, a head shop, or anything a child should be
discouraged from seeing, in my oppinion. I knew zero about antidepressants until I was in my early twenties. I knew
something was wrong in my early teens, but assumed it was something fundametally wrong with me, not that I had a mood
disorder. I didn't know what such a thing was util I was in college. I'm sure that if I had had the internet when I
was a kid, I could have gotten some useful information out of it. Some parents are simply ignorant and don't bother
to investigate problems that their age and experience has them convinced they've got all figured out. Kids are usually
curious and hungry for answers. I bet a smart kid in need of help could find some here. It would be great to see more
kids here (not that I'm hoping anybody gets early-onset depression).But what if the words "fuck, orgasm, penis, clitoris, erection, vaginal, sexual" got Dr. Bob filtered out? How could
this be intelligently prevented? Who makes these decisions? I can't imagine self-rating would cure the net of porn.
I can't imagine attempts to screen out porn don't effectively screeen out all kinds of non-pornographic content. For
that matter, how do we define pornographic, or "adult content", or offensive?The net is not without danger or harm. Nor is the real world. This danger will be lessened when we as a society and
a species lose our desire to consume material that is gratuitously violent or sexually exploitative, not when we have
learned how to better censor that material.> I agree the net is not a place for kids to roam free. There are good options. Get an AOL account,
> set up ID for your kid, AOL uses a 3d party content filter like "Net Nanny" with several levels of access depending on age. parents can set additional restrictions and only the parent ID can change this. If you don't like AOL you can go direct to "Net Nanny" (or search under "net filter") to pick one you like. The supreme court says public librarys and other public places cannot filter, I support this, however i would like to see "Kids Areas" in librarys so they can access the internet w/o harm.
>
> james
Posted by Elizabeth on November 8, 1999, at 0:18:26
In reply to Re: kids and internet, posted by Adam on November 7, 1999, at 20:14:34
> I can't imagine attempts to screen out porn don't effectively screeen out all kinds of non-pornographic content. For
> that matter, how do we define pornographic, or "adult content", or offensive?I've heard a few attempts to define obscenity. Two that are worth repeating: (1) you know it when you see it; (2) anything in a sock drawer that is not a sock.
There has also been talk of community standards, but if one regards the internet as our community -- well, let's face it, there are no standards. (Well, except that everybody agrees that spammers are evil.)
> The net is not without danger or harm. Nor is the real world. This danger will be lessened when we as a society and
> a species lose our desire to consume material that is gratuitously violent or sexually exploitative, not when we have
> learned how to better censor that material.Well said. (And it's still censorship if parents are doing it rather than the government.)
Posted by gigi on November 9, 1999, at 7:34:54
In reply to Re: My Personal Experience Regarding Daughers and Sex, posted by Adam on November 4, 1999, at 1:00:32
Adam,
Thank you for your kind words. I do sometimes wonder if I overreacted, but at the time I did think my daughter was in real peril. Having never dealt with this type of situation, I was on my own and did what I thought best. It is difficult not to get mad at her when she does these crazy things, but I have tried to take a step back and let her fly. She is incredibly talented in art and I know she will find her nitch someday. Thank you again to everyone for your insights. Gigi
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