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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 5 to 29 of 29. Go back in thread:
Posted by Cass on September 17, 1999, at 1:20:42
In reply to Re: The Twisted Shield of Social Status, posted by Elle on September 16, 1999, at 23:31:53
Elle, it's very ironic that you mention Alice Miller because there is a book recommendation thread in this month's posts, and my reading suggestion is Alice Miller's Drama of the Gifted Child.
Posted by jamie on September 17, 1999, at 4:32:16
In reply to The Twisted Shield of Social Status, posted by Cass on September 16, 1999, at 19:13:24
Some random comments...life trauma and mental illness go hand in hand, are not separable, one can cause the other, vice versa...it's a spider web of interconnecting variables, physical and mental...I wonder if mental illness such as depression is in your genes, perhaps from a grandparent or great grandparent...mental illness doesn't breed true, it can manifest itself differently than the one inherited from...I was abandoned a great deal of time when young, had depression on my grandparent's side of the family, was born breached feetfirst in a lengthy complicated birth that may have caused brain trauma...I think they all intertwine...too often parents and school look the other way...they are too busy focusing on other nonsensical garbage like free comdoms condoning immoral behavior...meanwhile REAL problems like poor education in math and history, and poor recognition of mental illness, result...I'm very sorry for what you've been through...the silver lining is that you have been empowered to be better than them and correct the wrongs done by others...you've seen the light, they haven't...glad you got it off your chest...hope it's OK I did the same...ps, that counselor stinks, but probably has a nice car and a nice home taking a ride on the system...too bad we don't have school choice AND counselor choice.
Posted by Cass on September 17, 1999, at 12:52:46
In reply to Re: The Twisted Shield of Social Status, posted by jamie on September 17, 1999, at 4:32:16
One of the reasons I am so charged up about this issue is that I have seen the high school counselor around town twice in the span of two months. This has been very unusual. Before that I had not seen him for many, many years. Both occurences brought up all kinds of emotions. I wanted to say something to him so badly. I wanted to tell him how different my life could have been if he had handled my situation thoughtfully. But I did not approach him. Coincidentally, my present therapist knows him. She says that he is arrogant and demeaning and that when she worked with him he had done a grave injustice to four students who were then referred to her: He had labeled them "bad kids" when, in her opinion, they were not so bad, at all. I feel like talking to him, but if he's arrogant or condescending I might end up feeling worse. It's been a long time, his answer might be "Get over it," which I know would only prove his moral cowardice, but it would still frustrate me.
Thanks to everyone who has given me support in this thread so far!
Posted by Bob on September 17, 1999, at 13:34:44
In reply to The Counselor, posted by Cass on September 17, 1999, at 12:52:46
It's funny (ironic) ... one of the things that just makes a teacher's day/week/month/life is having some adult come up to you, attach herself to a name you recall, and hear that former student say how much that class meant to the path she has taken.
I say stick it to him.
If he's treated others the same way he treated you, he needs to hear that he's a quack as much as good teachers/counselors/mentors need to be thanked. If he's so arrogant he'd tell you something like "grow up", tell him to retire before he hurts anyone else ... and if he is retired, say a prayer aloud that no student has to deal with him ever again, with a note of condolence for his own children (and grandchildren).
... even if you don't feel it worth the effort, you might want to write it out in a letter. I've done that several times, with letters I've never actually sent, just because it helps to take all that churning emotion and make some sense of it. That usually helps me get beyond it.
Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Racer on September 17, 1999, at 16:00:05
In reply to Re: The Counselor, posted by Bob on September 17, 1999, at 13:34:44
My mother is one of the sweetest creatures on earth. She is also as manipulative as you can imagine in some ways, but she's not aware that she's doing it. Add to that her martyrdom thing, and then let's talk about her boyfriend... When I was a child, I had to listen to him put her down all the time, hurt her feelings for fun, and insult her looks (she's actually pretty, but doesn't know it). Guess what? Someone who would do that won't stop there. He used to say things to her like, "you know, Sue, this child wouldn't be too ugly if you'd only get her nose fixed..." He knew that that was hurtful, but he ENJOYED having that sort of power. And guess what? He was also a child molester. I won't go into all the details of the horrors of those years, but I will say that I begged for help, and got the same sort of response you did.
I can't imagine anything more painful than what it sounds as though you've gone through. I wish that I could do something to help you through the healing, because that's all that's left now and it can be almost more painful than the hurts were themselves. Would you like to correspond some off the board? Just trade the horror stories and know that you're not alone? If you're concerned about anonymity, you can set up a free mail address from excite or hotmail or something. Just let me know.
And that counselor sounds like the idiot teacher who believed the gossip about me at the school, at a time I was being regularly abused at home (though my sweet mother didn't deserve such a bad girl as I...). I think often about getting in touch with him and trying to wipe that damn smugness out of his life.
Love and light, Cass, love and light
Posted by Racer on September 17, 1999, at 17:43:47
In reply to Cass, no wonder I like you so much!, posted by Racer on September 17, 1999, at 16:00:05
My email address is on this one, just click on my name where it's highlighted and you can write to me.
Take good care of yourself, because you deserve it. If I could send you some nice chicken stew I would, but you're gonna have to stand in for me. You are a dear one, though, my friend. Take good care of my e-friend for me, 'K?
Posted by Elle on September 17, 1999, at 19:01:27
In reply to The Counselor, posted by Cass on September 17, 1999, at 12:52:46
> One of the reasons I am so charged up about this issue is that I have seen the high school counselor around town twice in the span of two months. This has been very unusual. Before that I had not seen him for many, many years. Both occurences brought up all kinds of emotions. I wanted to say something to him so badly. I wanted to tell him how different my life could have been if he had handled my situation thoughtfully. But I did not approach him. Coincidentally, my present therapist knows him. She says that he is arrogant and demeaning and that when she worked with him he had done a grave injustice to four students who were then referred to her: He had labeled them "bad kids" when, in her opinion, they were not so bad, at all. I feel like talking to him, but if he's arrogant or condescending I might end up feeling worse. It's been a long time, his answer might be "Get over it," which I know would only prove his moral cowardice, but it would still frustrate me.
> Thanks to everyone who has given me support in this thread so far!I wish Mr. counselor knew that despite his deplorable handling of your crisis you've moved forward, grown and gained insight. He, on the other hand reached the height of his ability long ago. He has now earned the reputation he deserves, even your therapist knows about him. I hope he is near retirement.
Oh! About Alice Miller, I had her book,Thou Shalt Not Be Aware, on my desk while reading your thread, it seemed an appropriate suggestion that you read her. That is ironic since I hadn't read the "Books" thread with your pick.
Posted by Melanie on September 17, 1999, at 19:19:03
In reply to The Counselor, posted by Cass on September 17, 1999, at 12:52:46
Just a thought, but if you did approach him, and he did say something inappropriate, report to him to his licensing board!!! They may be interested to hear about his ineptness and general inability to master one of a good therapist's first rules of thumb: "Meet the client where he/she is."
On the other hand, you are right to be concerned about his being able to manipulate the situation with his response--no matter how well you plan it out, there's a good chance he could push your buttons. And you don't deserve that. Whatever you decide, do it because it will help you heal. Don't give him the satisfaction of taking that away from you, whether you confront him or not.
Peace, Melanie
Posted by Cass on September 17, 1999, at 19:27:13
In reply to Re: The Counselor, posted by Elle on September 17, 1999, at 19:01:27
Elle, Thou Shalt Not Be Aware is another great one!! I felt very validated by the book. In terms of psychological books, Alice Miller has been the most influential for me. I'm glad you're reading it, too.
Posted by Yardena on September 17, 1999, at 19:42:54
In reply to Thou Shalt Not Be Aware, posted by Cass on September 17, 1999, at 19:27:13
Think it through before you confront him. Discuss with someone all the possible scenarios you can imagine and how it would feel to you, what impact it might have on you, positive or negative, and how you would cope. Are you ready to deal with something that might end up feeling like a repetition of your original encounters with him? This is just as much of a possibility as having a cathartic and empowering experience in confronting him.
Posted by Ruth on September 17, 1999, at 20:43:30
In reply to Re: The Counselor From Hell, posted by Yardena on September 17, 1999, at 19:42:54
I just wanted to say how badly I felt for you when I read your post. As others have said, it is a sad commentary that your counsellor didn't take you seriously and intervene in what must have been a terrible situation. I'm sure it took great strength to go to him and how alone you must have felt when he didn't respond. The sad part is that my guess is that if you confront him now he's likely to have little or no memory of what happened. I would be concerned about your reaction should that be the case.
Sometimes the hardest thing for me is when I just want to scream over something that has happened to me and I realize that there is no one to scream at.
The good thing as I read your post is that you're clear that something horrible was done to you and that you were the victim and not to blame for what happened. I believe that is the first step in coming to terms with something that's happened.
Do continue to use us for support.
> Think it through before you confront him. Discuss with someone all the possible scenarios you can imagine and how it would feel to you, what impact it might have on you, positive or negative, and how you would cope. Are you ready to deal with something that might end up feeling like a repetition of your original encounters with him? This is just as much of a possibility as having a cathartic and empowering experience in confronting him.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 1999, at 10:28:49
In reply to Re: The Counselor, posted by Melanie on September 17, 1999, at 19:19:03
> Just a thought, but if you did approach him, and he did say something inappropriate, report to him to his licensing board!!!
Whether to pursue this now is a big question, and there's no right or wrong answer, but I suppose it might also be an option to report him now for what he did (or didn't) do before. To his licensing board, or to his professional society, or to his employer.
Bob
Posted by Elle on September 18, 1999, at 17:21:20
In reply to Re: The Counselor, posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 1999, at 10:28:49
> > Just a thought, but if you did approach him, and he did say something inappropriate, report to him to his licensing board!!!
>
> Whether to pursue this now is a big question, and there's no right or wrong answer, but I suppose it might also be an option to report him now for what he did (or didn't) do before. To his licensing board, or to his professional society, or to his employer.
>
> BobIF you decide to report him it would be most effective to report him to all of those mentioned by Dr. Bob. I would also make a special point of CCing his employer, (school principal,school board and superintendent).This is likely to have an impact on this guy. Generally school officials tend to take it quite seriously when their employees are possibly harming the kids they hire them to help. They are obligated to look into the matter if it is put under their noses. They may be just waiting for one more complaint to corroborate and support the ones they already have. He would possibly be reviewed, reprimanded, sent for appropriate education and training or even fired.
Elle
Posted by Cass on September 18, 1999, at 17:51:46
In reply to Re: The Counselor, posted by Elle on September 18, 1999, at 17:21:20
>
> IF you decide to report him it would be most effective to report him to all of those mentioned by Dr. Bob. I would also make a special point of CCing his employer, (school principal,school board and superintendent).This is likely to have an impact on this guy. Generally school officials tend to take it quite seriously when their employees are possibly harming the kids they hire them to help. They are obligated to look into the matter if it is put under their noses. They may be just waiting for one more complaint to corroborate and support the ones they already have. He would possibly be reviewed, reprimanded, sent for appropriate education and training or even fired.
>
> ElleAt the time I was seeing this couselor, my step-mother was an elected school official in the same district. School officials tend to be a tight-knit, snooty bunch. I know from experience. Did his link to her contribute to his cowardice in dealing with my situation? Perhaps, but I still think it is no excuse.
Posted by Janice on September 18, 1999, at 20:21:50
In reply to School Officials and Abuse/Neglect of Their Own , posted by Cass on September 18, 1999, at 17:51:46
>
Hi Cass, I'm sorry for what you went through. I like what Dr. Bob and Elle said, report him; that is if you're up to it. In the long run, this could help both you and other people. Janice. Good luck.
Posted by Need to remain anonymous on September 18, 1999, at 22:38:27
In reply to Re: School Officials and Abuse/Neglect of Their Own , posted by Janice on September 18, 1999, at 20:21:50
Perhaps unlikely, but it is also possible that the counselor wanted to report but was pressured no to by his higher-ups, given that your mother was an elected school official. I speak from experience, having lost a job once when I reported a case to the protective services, against the wishes of my principal.
Posted by Colleen on September 20, 1999, at 0:02:10
In reply to The Twisted Shield of Social Status, posted by Cass on September 16, 1999, at 19:13:24
Cass -
While I was reading your tread I got tears in my eyes and wanted to start crying. I know where you are coming from. I was physically, psychologically, and sexually abused as a child. Memebers of my family could to hard time for what they did. Through out my childhood I would send signals to people that something was wrong. I was labeled a troubled child and why can't she be like her brother and sister. It wasn't until I attempted suicide in college that I started to get some help. Unfortunatly the doctor that my parents had me go to has worthless. My parents comment to me when I came home was that it ruined their day and what will the neighbors think. One night I was having a really bad time (I'm diagnosed with schziod affective disorder) the doctor suggested my parents send me to a hospital for there was fear I would harm myself. My parents refused to do it for they were afraid that having the medical emgergency people come to the house would rise supisions with the neighbor. So it took 15 years until I found a good doctor and was able to get on the proper medicaltion. I know I'm also getting stuff off my chest - but Cass what you wrote hit a core with me. I'm glad I'm not alone. I'm so sorry to hear what you whent through and know how mad you can be when the people you want help from fall through. I wish I could yell at my first doctor but he is dead. I hope through your current therapy and meds that you can come to terms with your experiences.Best to you.
Posted by Cass on September 21, 1999, at 1:06:52
In reply to Re: The Twisted Shield of Social Status, posted by Colleen on September 20, 1999, at 0:02:10
I want to thank everyone who has lent their support to me on this issue. The topic I wrote about often makes me feel alienated and alone because it seems that so few people are open to seeing anything but the facades that others present. I learned very negative things during my childhood: I was aware that most people revered social status and overlooked or ignored personal character; it seemed that child abuse and neglect didn't diminish anyone's opinion of my parents. I learned that most people are looking for power and popularity in friends and could care less about genuine goodness. Consequently, I treasure all of your comments; they remind me that not everyone is so shallow and that not everyone condones child abuse. I need to keep that in mind. It's not that I've never known anyone who isn't shallow, but it sure seems like those sensitive people are few and far between. I needed to get something off my chest, and I'm so glad I did. I got more than I expected.
Posted by Melanie on September 21, 1999, at 17:53:12
In reply to Re: School Officials and Abuse/Neglect of Their Own , posted by Need to remain anonymous on September 18, 1999, at 22:38:27
> Perhaps unlikely, but it is also possible that the counselor wanted to report but was pressured no to by his higher-ups, given that your mother was an elected school official. I speak from experience, having lost a job once when I reported a case to the protective services, against the wishes of my principal.
You brought up an interesting, albeit troubling, dilemma. As human service professionals, medical persons, teachers, ministers, and the like are mandated by law to report, they should thus never be fired for reporting what is in fact found to be abuse (or even something that looks suspicious). But, being in the real world, I know that what is said is not as easily done. I would think you'd have a good lawsuit on your hands, or at least the right to grieve the firing in order to get your job back. It is amazing to me to see the extent to which our society is willing to protect abusers at the expense of the abused.
Posted by anonymous on September 21, 1999, at 20:37:18
In reply to Re: School Officials and Abuse/Neglect of Their Own , posted by Melanie on September 21, 1999, at 17:53:12
Melanie, thanks. Too much time has passed at this point, it's been years. I decided against suing because the process can pretty grueling and in the end it is a crapshoot anyway. I made the decision to go on with my life, it's what I needed to do at the time. I am not sure I would make the same decision today.
Posted by Cass on September 21, 1999, at 22:01:56
In reply to Re: School Officials and Abuse/Neglect of Their Own , posted by anonymous on September 21, 1999, at 20:37:18
I finished a rough draft of a letter today. It was very draining. I haven't decided whether or not to send it out. If I do I'll probably send it to various school officials and to whomever heads the school psychologists. After all this time, they will not be afraid of legal action, but they should be disturbed by the apathy of their own.
Posted by Elle on September 22, 1999, at 1:03:33
In reply to Wrote a letter, posted by Cass on September 21, 1999, at 22:01:56
> I finished a rough draft of a letter today. It was very draining. I haven't decided whether or not to send it out. If I do I'll probably send it to various school officials and to whomever heads the school psychologists. After all this time, they will not be afraid of legal action, but they should be disturbed by the apathy of their own.
Whatever you do regarding the letter it will be the right thing for you, at this time. Cass, just keep your own healing in mind as you move through this. That is what's important. Thank YOU for being so open. Hearing from you on this issue has brought up an intense sense of connection for me and apparently many other people. I hope you keep posting and let us know what develops.
Elle
Posted by Bob on September 22, 1999, at 11:05:37
In reply to Re: Wrote a letter, posted by Elle on September 22, 1999, at 1:03:33
Cass,
I'm glad to hear that, and I hope it works for you the way doing this does for me. Like I said, even if no one else sees it, I hope it has helped define the shadows hiding in those memories so that you can clearly see them for what they are, and hopefully find some path to move beyond them and put them safely behind you. As draining and as wrenching as this can be, I hope you feel some pride, find some strength in being able to do it.Anon,
Remember that hindsight is 20/20. You may not do it again *now* the way you handled matters back then, but it does sound like you have moved on, you have put it behind you. That's the most important thing, I think -- the day you can say, "I made it though, I left it behind, and I'm still alive, not in stasis in that moment."Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Melanie on September 25, 1999, at 20:31:49
In reply to Re: Wrote a letter, posted by Bob on September 22, 1999, at 11:05:37
Cass,
You have done a great service to those who have been following this post. This subject is difficult, at best, and your ability to share has been meaningful to all who've followed this story. Good luck to you in whatever you decide to do with your letter. I hope that in dealing with this one piece of your abuse experience, you will be one step closer to the level of healing you are seeking.
Peace, Melanie
Posted by Aerin on January 18, 2001, at 11:07:19
In reply to The Twisted Shield of Social Status, posted by Cass on September 16, 1999, at 19:13:24
Cass,
You're certainly not mentally ill for noticing the behavior-I've lived it too. Have you read anything about being the child of alcoholics? The information applies to children of children of children of, etc.- in other words, the behavior (the narcissm, emotional brutality & neglect) is something that your family may have learned generations back, and carries with them, even if they never imbibe. You might try reading 'The Drama of the Gifted Child'(specifically about children of Narcissists), or any of the Adult Children of Alcoholics books(just skim over the substance abuse part). They have REALLY helped me process this, and also validated the reality that you may find others so skeptical of. The only way to win is not to let the assholes who raised you win- move on, gently.
Best of luck.
This is the end of the thread.
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