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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Elizabeth on April 20, 1999, at 3:29:56
In reply to naltrexone, posted by paul on April 19, 1999, at 10:01:37
> Please put me on your "mailing list" for info on opioid agonists/antagonists in the treatment of depression, dysthymia, etc
If anyone is interested in actually forming such a mailing list, I'd be happy to maintain it. I think it's a wonderful idea, and it would be a good way of bringing together a number of people who have experiences in this area.
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on April 20, 1999, at 3:40:33
In reply to Re: Refractory depression--Elizabeth, posted by Victoria on April 19, 1999, at 15:06:55
Victoria, we did have that discussion about fibro, and I don't rememeber what I felt about it. But yeah, it's been in the back of my mind for a while (I recently made a "what is it?" post here).
My doctor did recommend thyroid augmentation. Right now I'm taking Parnate (30mg) and Ambien (20mg qhs) with prn's of Xanax and buprenorphine. (Trazodone as a sedative didn't work for me - kept having to increase the dose.)
Do you think that estrogens and/or testosterones could help someone my age?
>"Betrayal By the Brain" by Jay Goldstein, MD
I'm laughing now because I often use the expression, "I feel like my brain has betrayed me." I will check this one out. I've been looking for good references (not too "pop psychology," but not too technical) on this for a while. Where is he?
Neurontin is something I've tried. It made me very fuzzy and oversedated, and I gained weight. I don't think it helped with the pain, but it might have. It was actually suggested for the panic disorder (which may or may not "really" be epilepsy.)
Anyway, thanks for the info. It looks like it will be useful - I'll talk to my psychopharmacologist about it (I see him tomorrow).
Posted by Wayne R. on April 20, 1999, at 6:01:22
In reply to Re: naltrexone, posted by Elizabeth on April 20, 1999, at 3:29:56
> If anyone is interested in actually forming such a mailing list, I'd be happy to maintain it.
I would welcome such a list. I feel like the Naltrexone poster boy and would love to hear about the results of others. Wayne
Posted by pej-Phil on April 20, 1999, at 6:48:37
In reply to Re: naltrexone mailing list, posted by Wayne R. on April 20, 1999, at 6:01:22
> > If anyone is interested in actually forming such a mailing list, I'd be happy to maintain it.
>
> I would welcome such a list. I feel like the Naltrexone poster boy and would love to hear about the results of others. Wayne>>I'd be interested in receiving info on Naltrexone...sign me up! Thanks..Phil
Posted by Annie on April 20, 1999, at 12:48:24
In reply to Re: naltrexone, posted by Elizabeth on April 20, 1999, at 3:29:56
I'd like to be on the list too. Annie
> > Please put me on your "mailing list" for info on opioid agonists/antagonists in the treatment of depression, dysthymia, etc
>
> If anyone is interested in actually forming such a mailing list, I'd be happy to maintain it. I think it's a wonderful idea, and it would be a good way of bringing together a number of people who have experiences in this area.
>
> -elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on April 20, 1999, at 17:28:53
In reply to Re: naltrexone, posted by Annie on April 20, 1999, at 12:48:24
I've created the list...I wanted to make it broader than just about naltrexone. Also, it'll be limited to discussion of the use of opioids in psychiatry with an emphasis on uses *other* than for substance-related disorders (mainly, depression). No humor posts, virus warnings, etc. And no flaming!
If you asked to be on the list, you should be getting an invitation email sometime soonish.
Posted by JohnB. on April 22, 1999, at 1:32:05
In reply to opioid agonist/antagonist discussion mailing list, posted by Elizabeth on April 20, 1999, at 17:28:53
I'd love to be included in the opiate receptor action list you are forming. Been very interesting!
Thanks
JohnB.
Posted by Nick on April 23, 1999, at 12:13:32
In reply to Re: Dysthymia/Bipolar Depression (Elaine), posted by Nancy on April 12, 1999, at 16:40:45
>
> ***NO KIDDING!!! I went through hell and high water to get T-three and T4!!!!!!!!!!! In just the first 7 days of taking T-three, you will begin to feel more energetic. ??i have to spell out the word "three" because my keyboard just lost it's mind...the numeral three isn't working at the moment(33333...see?)...oh, well.
>
> Anyway, (oh, i love to tell my stories....Thank You!) my pdoc and gp were totally against using thyroid augmentation BECAUSE MY TEST RESULT CAME BACK "NORMAL". I finally began asking where on the range of "normal" was I???? GET THIS: Doctors say that your thyroid levels are normal, even when those levels are in the "low end of normal". Which, by the way, IS NOT sufficient thyroid level for treatment refractory patients!
>
> The pdoc who had read literature (even after graduating from med school) important for prescribing drugs for severly treatment resistive bipolar patients (like me), was the pdoc who ended my 18 months of agonizing and totally disabling depression.
>
>
> ****Dosage begins at 0.05mgs/ A.M./ empty stomach. An ultra sensitive thyroid blood test is done two weeks later. Increase dosage by 0.05mgs, as before, until both T3three and T4 levels are in the upper-quartile of the "normal" range.
>
>
> Side Efeects??? be careful that you don't drink enough caffienated drinks to cause a pounding heart...you may have some flushing (turning a little pinkish) of your skin, rather than the pale sickly color of the skin when your thyroid is "low normal"...oh, also, you may feel a lot better than you ever have since this awful depression began!
>
>
> Thanks for posting Nancy - I'll feel a bit more confident in prescribingKR
Nick
>
Posted by Nick on April 23, 1999, at 12:16:34
In reply to Re: opioid agonist/antagonist discussion mailing list, posted by JohnB. on April 22, 1999, at 1:32:05
> I'd love to be included in the opiate receptor action list you are forming. Been very interesting!
>
> Thanks
> JohnB.Me too!
Nick
Posted by Michael on May 10, 1999, at 17:54:16
In reply to Re: naltrexone mailing list, posted by Wayne R. on April 20, 1999, at 6:01:22
> > If anyone is interested in actually forming such a mailing list, I'd be happy to maintain it.
>
> I would welcome such a list. I feel like the Naltrexone poster boy and would love to hear about the results of others. WayneHey there Wayne,
Remember me? I wrote a thread to one of your posts back in March. I finally got my doctor to give me the Revia (naltrexone) perscription in order to augment my Prozac and Trazadone combo used to treat my OCD. I've never felt as good as I did the first few months of starting Prozac. Aside from the sexual side effects, agitation, and the headaches, I felt like I was "King of the world". Well, hopefully in a couple of weeks with the naltrexone I'll be feeling good again. I'll keep you posted. Any words of wisdom you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!
Mike
Posted by PattyG on May 10, 1999, at 20:04:44
In reply to opioid agonist/antagonist discussion mailing list, posted by Elizabeth on April 20, 1999, at 17:28:53
May I please be added to this list? Thank you!
Posted by Wayne R. on May 11, 1999, at 5:32:09
In reply to Re: naltrexone mailing list, posted by Michael on May 10, 1999, at 17:54:16
Hey Mike!
May you become the permanent “King of the world”!! I guess my only words of wisdom are to start slowly. Work the dosage up very gradually to allow your system to adjust. God, I would just love to have others duplicate the success I have had. Keep me posted and send me specific questions if they come up.
Wayne
Posted by Michael on May 13, 1999, at 13:09:37
In reply to Re: naltrexone mailing list, posted by Wayne R. on May 11, 1999, at 5:32:09
> Hey Mike!
>
> May you become the permanent “King of the world”!! I guess my only words of wisdom are to start slowly. Work the dosage up very gradually to allow your system to adjust. God, I would just love to have others duplicate the success I have had. Keep me posted and send me specific questions if they come up.
>
> WayneHey Wayne,
I thought I was starting low at only a quarter of a 50mg pill. The first day was okay, but the second day I felt nauseous, dizzy and tired. I also had a pretty bad headache. I skipped taking it today and I still feel lousy. I know it stays in your sytem for like 72 hours just like Prozac. I'm just wondering if what I'm experiencing sounds normal to you and should I just take a quarter pill every third day or some other protocol. I've tried so many things, with so many bad reactions I'm really getting pretty fed up. Please advise me as to what you think I should do. I hope to read back from you soon.
Mike
Posted by Wayne R. on May 13, 1999, at 14:56:35
In reply to Not doing so good., posted by Michael on May 13, 1999, at 13:09:37
> Hey Wayne,
>
I'm just wondering if what I'm experiencing sounds normal to you and should I just take a quarter pill every third day or some other protocol.
> Mike
Mike, Like most meds I am not sure there is a "normal" since we are all so different. As for me I broke a 50 mg tablet into 7 pieces and took the smallest piece first, etc. That worked well for me but if you are especially sensitive you might go with tiny fragments for several days until things even out and then go to a slightly larger fragment. Wishing you the best... Wayne
Posted by saintjames on May 13, 1999, at 15:05:01
In reply to Not doing so good., posted by Michael on May 13, 1999, at 13:09:37
> > Hey Mike!
> >
> > May you become the permanent “King of the world”!! I guess my only words of wisdom are to start slowly. Work the dosage up very gradually to allow your system to adjust. God, I would just love to have others duplicate the success I have had. Keep me posted and send me specific questions if they come up.
> > Wayne
>
> Hey Wayne,
>
> I thought I was starting low at only a quarter of a 50mg pill. The first day was okay, but the second day I felt nauseous, dizzy and tired. I also had a pretty bad headache. I skipped taking it today and I still feel lousy. I know it stays in your sytem for like 72 hours just like Prozac. I'm just wondering if what I'm experiencing sounds normal to you and should I just take a quarter pill every third day or some other protocol. I've tried so many things, with so many bad reactions I'm really getting pretty fed up. Please advise me as to what you think I should do. I hope to read back from you soon.
>
> MikeJames here....
Prozac lasts far longer than 72 hrs. Side effects are always going to be bad the first week. For me, unless they are life threatning I have always sit them out to see if they lessen and the med works.
james
Posted by Jim on May 14, 1999, at 6:15:07
In reply to Not doing so good., posted by Michael on May 13, 1999, at 13:09:37
Jim here, former would-be naltrexone poster-boy (see last months posts). I agree with Wayne that the key may to start with VERY small doses--I overshot even by taking an eighth of a pill for the first few days: nightmares, insomnia, etc. After curiously feeling terrific a few days after stopping the naltrexone, I restarted and did much better on very small fractional doses (i.e. 1 or 2 mg a day, or even every other day--the kind of doses you would expect only to have an effect on opiate abusers, but had a profound effect on me). I reluctantly discontinued it recently because it was giving me the same sort of idiosyncratic side-effects I get with SSRIs, but low dosages seemed to work well for a while, especially for cutting back the food cravings that have now all returned with a vengence! In sum, I think the 25 or 50mg dosage may be too high for many people, at least to start with.
Good luck,
Jim
> Hey Wayne,
>
> I thought I was starting low at only a quarter of a 50mg pill. The first day was okay, but the second day I felt nauseous, dizzy and tired. I also had a pretty bad headache. I skipped taking it today and I still feel lousy. I know it stays in your sytem for like 72 hours just like Prozac. I'm just wondering if what I'm experiencing sounds normal to you and should I just take a quarter pill every third day or some other protocol. I've tried so many things, with so many bad reactions I'm really getting pretty fed up. Please advise me as to what you think I should do. I hope to read back from you soon.
>
> Mike
Posted by PattyG on May 14, 1999, at 19:26:33
In reply to Re: Not doing so good., posted by Jim on May 14, 1999, at 6:15:07
Glad to hear (well, not really "glad") that others are having same experience as my husband. Poor soul was really nauseated and dizzy the first day on 25 mg. Thankfully, he cut it in half! We're trying the "break it into quite a few pieces" process and starting over. Anyone with experience know if eventually your system becomes accilamated?
Posted by Michael on May 17, 1999, at 14:30:49
In reply to Re: Not doing so good., posted by PattyG on May 14, 1999, at 19:26:33
> Glad to hear (well, not really "glad") that others are having same experience as my husband. Poor soul was really nauseated and dizzy the first day on 25 mg. Thankfully, he cut it in half! We're trying the "break it into quite a few pieces" process and starting over. Anyone with experience know if eventually your system becomes accilamated?
Please keep me posted!! I've given up for the time being. I just felt so horrible for about 3 days after taking the second dose that I'm afraid to try again. I'm not doing all that great in general but at least I don't feel as bad as I did. I've experimented so much lately that I just need some time to relax. I need a little stability before I try anything again.
Posted by PattyG on May 18, 1999, at 11:27:27
In reply to Re: Not doing so good., posted by Michael on May 17, 1999, at 14:30:49
Sorry you're having the same problems. I've broken the tablet into fractions of fractions and he still complains of headaches, some nausea, and loose bowels. Even took a dose with two aspirin and started taking it at bedtime, but to no avail. Also, anyone know if Naltrexone is the generic for Revia (the way our insurance worked, it would appear to be.) If so, wondered if that could be part of the problem? Anyone know? And.........how about Kudzuroot? It's supposed to be the "natural" Naltrexone - anyone try that yet?
Posted by chuck on May 18, 1999, at 12:15:50
In reply to opioid agonist/antagonist discussion mailing list, posted by Elizabeth on April 20, 1999, at 17:28:53
>I would love to get on this mailing list---->started taking naltrexone about 4 weeks ago (with Zoloft, for last four years) with some results, though I'm not altogether sure what they are; that is, if if has 'boosted' my SSRI, it has done so only slightly. thanks.
Posted by chuck on May 18, 1999, at 12:16:00
In reply to opioid agonist/antagonist discussion mailing list, posted by Elizabeth on April 20, 1999, at 17:28:53
>I would love to get on this mailing list---->started taking naltrexone about 4 weeks ago (with Zoloft, for last four years) with some results, though I'm not altogether sure what they are; that is, if if has 'boosted' my SSRI, it has done so only slightly. thanks.
Posted by Elizabeth on May 18, 1999, at 17:52:35
In reply to Re: Not doing so good., posted by PattyG on May 18, 1999, at 11:27:27
Yeah, Revia is a brand name of naltrexone. (Another one I've heard is Trexan.)
The active ingredients in kudzu root are alcohol dehydrogenase inhibitors, I think...it doesn't work the same way as naltrexone does, anyway.
Posted by PattyG on May 18, 1999, at 23:35:41
In reply to naltrexone - Patty, posted by Elizabeth on May 18, 1999, at 17:52:35
(Elizabeth wrote)Yeah, Revia is a brand name of naltrexone. (Another one I've heard is Trexan.)
The active ingredients in kudzu root are alcohol dehydrogenase inhibitors, I think...it doesn't work the same way
as naltrexone does, anyway.////Sorry for being so....dumb....but are you saying that Naltrexone is, then, the generic of Revia? And what is Trexan? Haven't heard of that one. Also, I attended a workshop at the State Mental Health Convention on the Neurobiology of Addiction and the psychiatrist mentioned Kudzuroot and I was under the impression that he was inferring this worked in the same manner as Naltrexone. In what way do you know it to be effective? Thanks for any info you have!
Posted by Wayne R. on May 19, 1999, at 5:42:34
In reply to Re: naltrexone - Patty, posted by PattyG on May 18, 1999, at 23:35:41
Patty,
Naltrexone is the generic name. It has only been available as a generic for a year or so. Revia and Trexan are manufacturers brand names of the same thing.
Naltrexone has FDA approval for the treatment of certain drug and alcohol addictions. It fills in or blocks the receptors that influence the action of and craving for those drugs, etc. Naltrexone was accidentally discovered to help some people with hard to treat depression when combined with an SSRI type antidepressant. Nobody seems to know why this even works as yet. You may wish to review my postings since February to get more information. Best regards… Wayne
Posted by PattyG on May 19, 1999, at 7:33:20
In reply to Re: naltrexone - Patty, posted by Wayne R. on May 19, 1999, at 5:42:34
Okay, now what I need to know is if it could be possible that the folks who are having difficulty taking Naltrexone (headaches, nausea, etc.) would fair better with Revia (the non-generic drug?) Anyone have any info on this? THanks much!
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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