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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shelley on January 14, 1999, at 23:17:21
Is this something that I just have to live with? I have had a full and active week, and everything seems to be going well. I do some of the recommended non-pharm sleep tricks. And am unesponsive to sleeping pills anyway, unless at outrageous dosages that keep me pretty well zombie-ized throughout the day. SSRI ADs only aggravate the sleep problem. I'm allergic to the trycyclics. Sleep deprivation is proably my worst enemey. I hear talk of things like Cylert, what is that? I have an appt. soon and would like to arrrive well eduacted to address this issue. Unless I arrive mad from sleep deprivation unnanounced. Please advise. Thanks, Shell
Posted by Sean on January 15, 1999, at 19:56:54
In reply to Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by shelley on January 14, 1999, at 23:17:21
> Is this something that I just have to live with? I have had a full and active week, and everything seems to be going well. I do some of the recommended non-pharm sleep tricks. And am unesponsive to sleeping pills anyway, unless at outrageous dosages that keep me pretty well zombie-ized throughout the day. SSRI ADs only aggravate the sleep problem. I'm allergic to the trycyclics. Sleep deprivation is proably my worst enemey. I hear talk of things like Cylert, what is that? I have an appt. soon and would like to arrrive well eduacted to address this issue. Unless I arrive mad from sleep deprivation unnanounced. Please advise. Thanks, Shell
Insomnia does bite the big one. Are you manic
at all? Or is this a worrisome, anxious type of
insomnia?
Posted by shelley on January 17, 1999, at 16:13:10
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by Sean on January 15, 1999, at 19:56:54
> > Is this something that I just have to live with? I have had a full and active week, and everything seems to be going well. I do some of the recommended non-pharm sleep tricks. And am unesponsive to sleeping pills anyway, unless at outrageous dosages that keep me pretty well zombie-ized throughout the day. SSRI ADs only aggravate the sleep problem. I'm allergic to the trycyclics. Sleep deprivation is proably my worst enemey. I hear talk of things like Cylert, what is that? I have an appt. soon and would like to arrrive well eduacted to address this issue. Unless I arrive mad from sleep deprivation unnanounced. Please advise. Thanks, Shell
> Insomnia does bite the big one. Are you manic
> at all? Or is this a worrisome, anxious type of
> insomnia?Thanks for asking. The answer is I don't know. I've been on all kinds of meds for mania/depression, and have consulted a few different docs. All agree I am depressed. None can decide whether I am truly BP or not. Sleeplessness seems to be the only consistent symptom of mania as I've never had a non-pharmaceutically induced manic episode. And, yes, I do have anxiety, too.
Posted by Lisa on January 22, 1999, at 16:52:24
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by shelley on January 17, 1999, at 16:13:10
> > > Is this something that I just have to live with? I have had a full and active week, and everything seems to be going well. I do some of the recommended non-pharm sleep tricks. And am unesponsive to sleeping pills anyway, unless at outrageous dosages that keep me pretty well zombie-ized throughout the day. SSRI ADs only aggravate the sleep problem. I'm allergic to the trycyclics. Sleep deprivation is proably my worst enemey. I hear talk of things like Cylert, what is that? I have an appt. soon and would like to arrrive well eduacted to address this issue. Unless I arrive mad from sleep deprivation unnanounced. Please advise. Thanks, Shell
> > Insomnia does bite the big one. Are you manic
> > at all? Or is this a worrisome, anxious type of
> > insomnia?
> Thanks for asking. The answer is I don't know. I've been on all kinds of meds for mania/depression, and have consulted a few different docs. All agree I am depressed. None can decide whether I am truly BP or not. Sleeplessness seems to be the only consistent symptom of mania as I've never had a non-pharmaceutically induced manic episode. And, yes, I do have anxiety, too.Shelley,
I can totally relate to how you feel. I have been dealing with insomnia for over 2 years.The only time I ever got real sleep was when I was in a coma in the ICU from an overdose.
I have to agree with you on insomnia being an enemy. It sure as hell doesn't help the depression either.
Have you ever tried taking Ambien? My doctor put me on it 2 weeks ago and so far I can get around 4 hours of sleep, which by far better than before.
You might ask your doc about Ambien.
Posted by Mark on January 23, 1999, at 7:08:34
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by Lisa on January 22, 1999, at 16:52:24
Just have to jump in here as a fellow insomniac. Battling it for over 10 years. Did the sleep clinic assessment and was diagnosed as depressed. Sure, depressed from not sleeping but otherwise fine. Initially put on SSRIs with the predictable consequence...greater insomnia. Went through a bunch of other stuff until, about four years ago, settled on Kolonopin which I self-administer from 1-2mg/nite. Generally works quite well, so it seems its plain vanilla anxiety that got/gets me up at 3:00am.
Ambien, btw, is very tolerance sensitive; probably won't work for more than 2 weeks.
Currently going through a complicated accupunture treatment from highly trained MD. Not working yet but it's been an interesting experience.
Posted by shelley on January 23, 1999, at 19:21:03
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by Lisa on January 22, 1999, at 16:52:24
Shelley,
> I can totally relate to how you feel. I have been dealing with insomnia for over 2 years.The only time I ever got real sleep was when I was in a coma in the ICU from an overdose.
> I have to agree with you on insomnia being an enemy. It sure as hell doesn't help the depression either.
> Have you ever tried taking Ambien? My doctor put me on it 2 weeks ago and so far I can get around 4 hours of sleep, which by far better than before.
> You might ask your doc about Ambien.Thanks Lisa and Mark for jumping in there!! Insomnia is my personal demon. It comes in waves. Four hours in one night is a "good night's sleep" for me. I have tried Ambien, but not liked the side effects. Be careful not to mix it with other Rx without talking to a doc. I took it one night with Perkosett for a migraine and......stayed up all night in a black out and will never know what I did that night. Scared me to death. Anyway, I am "addicted" to Halcion, which has no effect, and am sleeping with the help of Restoril. I never know when it's going to work but at least I don't have the
"amnesiac" effect associated with large doses of Halcion and/or small doses of Ambien. I'd love an Ambien's night rest, but not home alone. My doc is talking about putting me "inpatient" to get the Halcion out of my system. Meanwhile, klonopin helps sometimes, too. I would really like to not be Rx dependent, but....I also recognize the limitations of my mind/body. Maybe some time "inpatient" will give my doc better insight into how to help me.....We'll see. Wish me luck.
Posted by Mark on January 26, 1999, at 20:50:15
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by shelley on January 23, 1999, at 19:21:03
Shelly,
Good luck flushing the system out. I've noticed on more than a few of the threads here the urgent desire for folks to be rid of drugs. An admirable goal and one I had with much fortitude. Then I realized that I was doing more to exacerbate the problem by trying to be drug free than to reconceptualize my pathology (chronic insomnia) as something that is imperfect about me and requiring perhaps long term, if not permanent drug intervention. So now, I just try to minimize the dosage but no longer crave to be in such self control as to no longer need anything. I'm much healthier, feel better, significantly less depressed doing my cocktail of small dose klonopin and pot each night and continuing to explore other interventions (e.g., accupuncture).
The demons of insomnia are horrible and, at least for me, I can usually lock them away with the knowledge that drugs are okay and not just another demon to be rid of.
It just works for me
Posted by Carol on February 2, 1999, at 15:55:38
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by Mark on January 26, 1999, at 20:50:15
> Shelly,
> Insomnia is one of those awful things that just makes everything else much more difficult to deal with. Even when I was a kid, I didn't sleep well at night. I'm now on a multi-drug regimen which seems to be enough most nights without requiring sleeping meds.
I tried 3mg Melatonin about 30 min before bedtime about 1 1/2 years ago. For me, the effects held over too long in the mornings (safety hazard at work). The warm milk and cookies tradition also works, but I do poptarts instead of cookies.
My med. mix currently is 5x 100 mg Wellbutin SR (2 at 6 AM, 2 at noon, 1 at 6 pm), 150-200 mg desryel at bedtime and 450 mg of eskalith CR at bedtime. I'm also taking a muscle relaxant at bedtime (flexeril, usually 20 mg)and bentyl 20mg (acid reflux) at bedtime.
Sometimes I add 1 or 2 fioricet (tension headaches), or Nyquil liqui-caps, which bring sleep that much quicker. I don't find Percoset very sedating most of the time (I take that for migraine HA), but the phenergan I take for nausea with migraines does tend to sedate me.
I have been "accustomed" to sleeping meds before, and allowing time to get these out of my system was absolutely miserable. Good luck with this.I didn't start with all these meds, this is just where we titrated the meds to over the past 15+ years that I've been being helped with my depression/whatever. I've been on the mix I've described (plus high blood pressure meds) for around 2-3 years.
I have had to resign myself that my depression is a lifelong disorder, and that I will require medication for this the rest of my life. I've tried "breaks" from the meds, and I'm just not functional. They are going to be as much a part of my life as my blood pressure pills, or insulin is for diabetics.
The difference is that they give ME control of my disorder, instead of looking at the problem as being a driving force in my life. Meds help control the problem, therefore I will do what I need to do to be in control of my life. It's a choice, and one my first Dr. forced me to make by putting me in a "state hospital" and showing me what I had to look forward to if I did not take control.
Good luck with the insomnia, as well as with the depression
Carol
Posted by Theresa on February 17, 1999, at 13:49:20
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by Carol on February 2, 1999, at 15:55:38
>Just to add to everyone else's comments. I too am on Klonopin, have just recently started it for my insomnia and frquent upsets in sleep when I do sleep. It seems to have worked thus far without the hangover of over-the-counter/ or prescrition meds. Good luck, I'll let you know if it continues to work.
Posted by Shelley on February 18, 1999, at 18:43:42
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by Theresa on February 17, 1999, at 13:49:20
> >Just to add to everyone else's comments. I too am on Klonopin, have just recently started it for my insomnia and frquent upsets in sleep when I do sleep. It seems to have worked thus far without the hangover of over-the-counter/ or prescrition meds. Good luck, I'll let you know if it continues to work.
Good luck Theresa!! Sleep is the key. Thanks, Shel
Posted by kate on February 21, 1999, at 16:55:19
In reply to Re: Insomnia, sleeplessness, posted by Shelley on February 18, 1999, at 18:43:42
I have been thru the list of drugs over the years - even 24hour study at sleep clinic. I would bother w/ the details but even with lots of doctors and drugs - no sleep. Besides no sleep everything hurt and brain didn't function well but thought that was from lack of sleep. Finally I asked about fibromyalgia (FMS) the nuerologist didn't pay attention; so I went to a university hospital and they confirmed FMS. I now take ambien and tricyclics (and I had to start at 2.0mg elavil bec. I am "reactive/allergic" to tricyclics) I will say that there are nights when no amount of medication (or melatonin) knocks me out even when I'm exhausted.
question: someone said "cookies and milk" routine; mine is cheerios and milk - why does it put me back to sleep
I had to smile at the comment about only good sleep was in a coma, I told my internist the only time I felt better was coming out of a general anesthetic. good luck - k
Posted by shelley on February 24, 1999, at 19:53:21
In reply to Re: Insomnia, sleeplessness, posted by kate on February 21, 1999, at 16:55:19
>the only time I felt better was coming out of a general anesthetic. good luck - k
Me, too!!!! Glad to know someone else with FMS. It's driving me crazy lately, esp. w/out sleep!! - Shell
Posted by Angela Lukin on May 3, 1999, at 18:46:10
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by shelley on January 17, 1999, at 16:13:10
Hi everyone,
My doctor has sugested Ambien for my sleeplessness.
Can you tell me about your experiences (pros
and cons). Thanks
Posted by Louise in UK on May 4, 1999, at 17:47:13
In reply to Re: Insomnia, sleeplessness, posted by shelley on February 24, 1999, at 19:53:21
> >the only time I felt better was coming out of a general anesthetic. good luck - k
>
> Me, too!!!! Glad to know someone else with FMS. It's driving me crazy lately, esp. w/out sleep!! - ShellShelly, I'm not sure whether this relates to you but I've struggled with insomnia for years, and have accepted the fact that I need drugs to help me sleep.
What has helped me is that I've realised that reasons I'm not sleeping can vary.
e.g. if I'm feeling hyper / mind racing / stressed, a tranquiliser such as chlorpromazine helps
If I can't relax but my brain's not doing overtime, an antihistamine like phenergan helps but makes me really tired the next day, even if I manage to sleep for hours after taking it.
If I just can't switch off and I'v got something important which needs a lot of concentration the following day, e.g.exams, I take the occasional tamazepam.
What I've found is that if I get on temazepam, it's very, very hard to sleep without it after a night or two on it (it took me a year to get off it) so I try and avoid it unless I'm desperate as it makes things worse except for the very short term.
I hope this helps.
Posted by Mark on May 10, 1999, at 5:45:58
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by Lisa on January 22, 1999, at 16:52:24
Insomnia is tough to sleep and can be cause
be a thousand different things (caffeine,
alcohol, drugs, depression, anxiety, hypomania,
medications, medical problems....)--there are a
thousand
different ways to approach it:melatonin
benzos
Ambien
trazodone
Remeron
tricyclic antidepressants
herbal meds (there are at least two, both
of which I am blanking on)
light therapy
exercise
yoga/relaxation/mediation> > > > Is this something that I just have to live with? I have had a full and active week, and everything seems to be going well. I do some of the recommended non-pharm sleep tricks. And am unesponsive to sleeping pills anyway, unless at outrageous dosages that keep me pretty well zombie-ized throughout the day. SSRI ADs only aggravate the sleep problem. I'm allergic to the trycyclics. Sleep deprivation is proably my worst enemey. I hear talk of things like Cylert, what is that? I have an appt. soon and would like to arrrive well eduacted to address this issue. Unless I arrive mad from sleep deprivation unnanounced. Please advise. Thanks, Shell
> > > Insomnia does bite the big one. Are you manic
> > > at all? Or is this a worrisome, anxious type of
> > > insomnia?
> > Thanks for asking. The answer is I don't know. I've been on all kinds of meds for mania/depression, and have consulted a few different docs. All agree I am depressed. None can decide whether I am truly BP or not. Sleeplessness seems to be the only consistent symptom of mania as I've never had a non-pharmaceutically induced manic episode. And, yes, I do have anxiety, too.
> Shelley,
> I can totally relate to how you feel. I have been dealing with insomnia for over 2 years.The only time I ever got real sleep was when I was in a coma in the ICU from an overdose.
> I have to agree with you on insomnia being an enemy. It sure as hell doesn't help the depression either.
> Have you ever tried taking Ambien? My doctor put me on it 2 weeks ago and so far I can get around 4 hours of sleep, which by far better than before.
> You might ask your doc about Ambien.
Posted by shelley on May 11, 1999, at 18:48:00
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by Mark on May 10, 1999, at 5:45:58
Thanks all for the good suggestions. I'm fresh out of detox for benzos, so those are not an option. I don't know how I'll face future nights sleeping so erratically, but I am glad to be free of the Benzo trap I was in. Am going to have a sleep study soon, maybe I'll have more answers then. Looking into light therapy. Thanks for all the support I have found here. -Shell
Posted by Elizabeth on May 11, 1999, at 22:28:56
In reply to Re: Insonia, sleeplessness, posted by shelley on May 11, 1999, at 18:48:00
Shelley, I'll be interested in what the sleep study turns up. My psychiatrist suggested I have one, but I'm a little confused as to what, if anything, I'm liable to find out from it other than that my sleep is crummy. :-} So I'd like to hear what you find out.
And if anyone else has experience or knowledge that might clarify this for me, I'd be grateful!
Posted by shelley on May 12, 1999, at 18:01:44
In reply to sleep studies (Shelley and others), posted by Elizabeth on May 11, 1999, at 22:28:56
> Shelley, I'll be interested in what the sleep study turns up. My psychiatrist suggested I have one, but I'm a little confused as to what, if anything, I'm liable to find out from it other than that my sleep is crummy. :-} So I'd like to hear what you find out.
>
> And if anyone else has experience or knowledge that might clarify this for me, I'd be grateful!Elizabeth!! I'll let you know. It will be an "ambulatory in-home sleep study." Hmm, I'm not quite sure what it will involve or how it will help, but my doc is very interested in the results. I went in-patient for a week. While I was there they ruled out manias as the cause of my insomnia. We'll see what they come up with next. -Shell
Posted by Elizabeth on May 15, 1999, at 23:32:44
In reply to Re: sleep studies (Shelley and others), posted by shelley on May 12, 1999, at 18:01:44
Cool! I'll be especially interested to hear about the technology they use, as well as what you learn about your own sleep architecture.
Nice to hear you're not manic...though I'm sort of surprised that you had to go to the hospital for them to figure that out!
What sort of insomnia do you have? Just phenomenologically, I mean. I have mainly "terminal" insomnia - early-morning awakenings - even though I'm not depressed. (The difference is
that I can get back to sleep; when I was depressed, I would start ruminating as soon as I figured out I was conscious.)BTW I went back and read the rest of the thread. You asked about Cylert in the first post - it's pemoline, a rather mild, long-acting stimulant. It's sometimes used for narcolepsy (so are tricyclics, MAOIs, Ritalin, and amphetamine), but it's not ordinarily for insomnia.
Getting off the Halcion was a good first step in getting the sleep disorder under control - I agree, using benzos for sleep is a trap.
This is the end of the thread.
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