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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Delphine on June 12, 1998, at 18:28:05
Am I crazy, or did I read some obscure posting that mentioned that codeine might relieve depression in some individuals? I truly thought I read that somewhere.
Thanks for any comments.
Posted by Reid Finlayson,MD on July 1, 1998, at 17:20:13
In reply to Codeine for depression?, posted by Delphine on June 12, 1998, at 18:28:05
> Am I crazy, or did I read some obscure posting that mentioned that codeine might relieve depression in some individuals? I truly thought I read that somewhere.
> Thanks for any comments.Hi
The association between depression and codeine is
not that it helps, but that its chronic use
can often produce symptoms similar to depression.
Posted by Ictinus on July 19, 1998, at 5:43:16
In reply to Re: Codeine for depression? Yup, posted by Reid Finlayson,MD on July 1, 1998, at 17:20:13
Wait a minute Doc...
Chronic pain often results in depression and in that sense narcotics might be beneficial. Could that be what Delphine read/heard?
I also wonder if the mild euphorogenic/anxiolotic effects of codeine might temporarily relieve symptoms of dysthymia/anxiety. Isn't that the self-medication theory of drug use/abuse?
Respectfully, your response echos old thinking about amphetamines & depression. Stimulants can create but also (safely) relieve depression.
Posted by Deborah on August 8, 1998, at 0:43:32
In reply to Codeine for depression?, posted by Delphine on June 12, 1998, at 18:28:05
> Am I crazy, or did I read some obscure posting that mentioned that codeine might relieve depression in some individuals? I truly thought I read that somewhere.
> Thanks for any comments.Yup. I wouldn't have known it because I used codeine to treat my undiagnosed depression. It worked.
Posted by Dr. Dan on August 28, 1998, at 1:35:52
In reply to Re: Codeine for depression? Yup, posted by Ictinus on July 19, 1998, at 5:43:16
> Wait a minute Doc...
> Chronic pain often results in depression and in that sense narcotics might be beneficial. Could that be what Delphine read/heard?
> I also wonder if the mild euphorogenic/anxiolotic effects of codeine might temporarily relieve symptoms of dysthymia/anxiety. Isn't that the self-medication theory of drug use/abuse?
> Respectfully, your response echos old thinking about amphetamines & depression. Stimulants can create but also (safely) relieve depression.
Dr., I'm afraid I have a bee to put in your bonnet re: codeine for depression?
I have read many studies of codeine and morphine and other opiate analogs used to treat depression with success. I refer you to Goodwin & Jamison "Manic Depressive Illness" for a very good summary of studies regarding the use of opiate analogues to treat depression. Remember, Codeine will depress the CNS which doesn't always translate into depressed mood. I only know of one patient currently being treated with codeine on a PRN basis along with maintenance treatmet with an SSRI.
Thanks for listening.
Posted by Barbara on September 6, 1998, at 15:00:58
In reply to Codeine for depression?, posted by Delphine on June 12, 1998, at 18:28:05
> Am I crazy, or did I read some obscure posting that mentioned that codeine might relieve depression in some individuals? I truly thought I read that somewhere.
> Thanks for any comments.
I'm currently taking Wellbutron for depression, have been on various SSRI's, etc. Codeine hurts my stomach, but I've found that taking hydrocodone can bring me out of a depressive funk almost immediately. Which begs the question: is there any research being done on the opiate receptors role in depression? I know that Effexor (venlafaxine) is the only(?) phenylethylamide out there which ties into the opiate pathways, but are there other similar avenues being pursued? Seem a likely candiate since 'absence of pleasure' is so prevalent in depression.
Posted by George o. on September 11, 1998, at 20:01:57
In reply to Codeine for depression? New thoughts, posted by Barbara on September 6, 1998, at 15:00:58
> > Am I crazy, or did I read some obscure posting that mentioned that codeine might relieve depression in some individuals? I truly thought I read that somewhere.
> > Thanks for any comments.
> I'm currently taking Wellbutron for depression, have been on various SSRI's, etc. Codeine hurts my stomach, but I've found that taking hydrocodone can bring me out of a depressive funk almost immediately. Which begs the question: is there any research being done on the opiate receptors role in depression? I know that Effexor (venlafaxine) is the only(?) phenylethylamide out there which ties into the opiate pathways, but are there other similar avenues being pursued? Seem a likely candiate since 'absence of pleasure' is so prevalent in depression.I'm Treatment resistant, and recall that during one period the codine which I took for a back problem seemed to bring about a great improvement. My blurred vision and drousiness (from tricyclics) cleared-up as well.
Posted by Paulette on September 23, 1998, at 23:35:02
In reply to Re: Codeine for depression? Yup, posted by Dr. Dan on August 28, 1998, at 1:35:52
> Wait a minute here! Codeine for depression? Read all you want people, but I had a depressed brother severely addicted to Codeine derivative drugs, and you want to know where he is today at the age of 36? In the graveyard! Send any doctor who keeps prescribing codeine derivative drugs to a depressed person straight to hell where they belong!
Posted by Scott on December 18, 1998, at 22:03:41
In reply to Re: Codeine for depression? New thoughts, posted by George o. on September 11, 1998, at 20:01:57
I used to abuse narcotic pain killers. In that period of my life, I had a tremendous amount of anxiety and tension. I was later diagnosed as a manic depressive. In my case, manic depression. After taking a few Vicodins, Percocet or a handful of tylenol with codeine, I became calm and relaxed. A feeling of well being would come over well being.
Yet, other people I knew siad that these pills put them to sleep, made them nauseous or made them feel horrible. That got me thinking about alcoholics and how they could drink endlessly, but, for me, the thought of drinking a fifth of scotch by myself at home was repugnant to me. I'd feel weretched after a couple.
It became obvious that everyone is wired differently and will have a different response to different substances. As for me, I belive that while painkillers but a certain type of person to sleep, etc, for me they brought me down to calm and sedate level becasue I operated at a higher level to begin with.
What was my point again? Oh yeah, I think that painkillers definitely have an antidepressant/antimanic effect.
My two cents.
Posted by Ictinus on December 19, 1998, at 23:51:10
In reply to Codeine for depression?, posted by Delphine on June 12, 1998, at 18:28:05
In September researchers at Merck published results of preclinical studies of a novel drug (MK-869) that has robust antidepressant effects. Why is this important? The drug effects the same nerve pathways as codeine (and other opoids). Codeine mimics endorphins/enkephalins which in effect block the release or effect of a transmitter called substance P. MK-869 also antagonizes substance P. Indeed it was created as a pain/migraine med.
So it seems we need to be less closed minded to ideas such as antidepressant effects of Codeine.
To read more about MK-869 online, try this link:
http://www.mhsource.com/edu/psytimes/p981101b.html
Posted by Paul on December 28, 1998, at 9:49:05
In reply to Re: Codeine for depression? NO!, posted by Paulette on September 23, 1998, at 23:35:02
> > Wait a minute here! Codeine for depression? Read all you want people, but I had a depressed brother severely addicted to Codeine derivative drugs, and you want to know where he is today at the age of 36? In the graveyard! Send any doctor who keeps prescribing codeine derivative drugs to a depressed person straight to hell where they belong!
Hold off on the sending-people-to-hell bit; that's uncivil. We're here to discuss things, even (heaven forbid) CONTROVERSIAL things, rationally. I am sympathetic about your brother, but to me your sentiment echoes the MINDLESSNESS of the "this is your brain on drugs" mentality.
With all due respect. :)
Posted by Dr. Peter on December 31, 1998, at 15:27:41
In reply to Narcotics and depression, posted by Scott on December 18, 1998, at 22:03:41
> I used to abuse narcotic pain killers. In that period of my life, I had a tremendous amount of anxiety and tension. I was later diagnosed as a manic depressive. In my case, manic depression. After taking a few Vicodins, Percocet or a handful of tylenol with codeine, I became calm and relaxed. A feeling of well being would come over well being.
> Yet, other people I knew siad that these pills put them to sleep, made them nauseous or made them feel horrible. That got me thinking about alcoholics and how they could drink endlessly, but, for me, the thought of drinking a fifth of scotch by myself at home was repugnant to me. I'd feel weretched after a couple.
> It became obvious that everyone is wired differently and will have a different response to different substances. As for me, I belive that while painkillers but a certain type of person to sleep, etc, for me they brought me down to calm and sedate level becasue I operated at a higher level to begin with.
> What was my point again? Oh yeah, I think that painkillers definitely have an antidepressant/antimanic effect.
> My two cents.Actually there is a literature on the use of narcotics to treat refractory depression. The one about which I have seen the most is buprenorphine. I also used to treat a bipolar woman whose depression would only respond to Vicodin, a synthetic opiate. Not all opiates are effective antidepressants and different individuals responds to different ones.
Their use should be limited to the most treatment resistant cases given the current political climate and risk of malpractice suits.
This is the end of the thread.
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