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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Avalon on June 7, 2006, at 12:07:20
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Jaspar on June 6, 2006, at 16:46:03
Jaspar, you're probably depressed over everything the stupid Cymbalta has put you through! Really, sorry to hear of your pain and depression but I understand not wanting to introduce anything new until your system is cleared. My doctor wants me to start on the Pamelor but I want to make sure I'm clear of Cymbalta (it's day 2 of withdrawal and I did feel sick this morning). Plus I just started Kadian and I want to make sure I can tolerate that before starting something else.
Hang in there and we're here for you!
Posted by Avalon on June 10, 2006, at 21:44:44
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Avalon on June 7, 2006, at 12:07:20
Well, it's day 5 since I discontinued the C-word. Each day I've felt progressively worse. Today is the worst -- dizzy and nauseous. I tried to shake it off by taking a walk, but instead of shaking it off, I just ended up shaking (literally), in addition to being dizzy and nauseous. I had to turn around and come home. It is difficult for me to even write this, as it seems every movement brings on the dizziness, which thens brings on the nausea. I have an appt with my PM on Mon. but he already thinks I'm off-the-wall (per my previous posts from last Mon.) so attributing this to Cymbalta withdrawal will undoubtedly get the same or worse reaction. He wanted me to start Pamelor but this is exactly why I wanted to wait -- I would not have known whether this was a result of Cymbalta withdrawal or a reaction to Pamelor. I sure hope this doesn't last long -- I am pretty much useless and have been either sleeping or lying on the couch nauseous all day.
Posted by kparis on June 11, 2006, at 7:55:12
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Avalon on June 10, 2006, at 21:44:44
Oh Avalon! I am so sorry! However, you are not alone in the way you are feeling. That is EXACTLY how I felt at the same time of withdrawal. My heart hurts for you. It will get better. I've been off for 18 days now and what you are describing went away after about a week, and other things started bothering me.
My doc said that after 2 weeks I'd start feeling better. I did but on day 15 I felt like crap, felt good on day 16 and like crap on day 17. We'll see today. She said it can take 4-6 weeks to feel like one's self. But I think your worst will be over soon. The sweating, feeling nauseated, weak, etc. passes. I drank a ton of water, worked on the building our house with my husband, and kept a spray bottle at hand for those horrible sweats. I ate tons of watermelon, oranges, bananas, cucumber, and all of the watery fruits. Small doses (1/4mg) of Klonopin helped with many of the symptoms. Please keep us posted!
I'm, as I'm sure we all are, with you.
Be well,
Kesta
Posted by SLS on June 11, 2006, at 8:39:36
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal » Avalon, posted by kparis on June 11, 2006, at 7:55:12
Hi.
I'm sorry that you had such a horrific experience with this drug. There has to be a better way.
Which symptoms did Klonopin help with?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 11, 2006, at 9:20:47
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Avalon on June 10, 2006, at 21:44:44
> Well, it's day 5 since I discontinued the C-word. Each day I've felt progressively worse. Today is the worst -- dizzy and nauseous.
You are going through the worst of it. Benadryl is sometimes used to lessen the severity of the withdrawal symptoms, although it can cause drowsiness. For the nausea, ginger might be helpful. It does several things in the body to treat things like dizziness and motion sickness. In fact, one of its components acts to block 5-HT3 serotonin receptors, just like the drug ondansetron, and thus can be used as an anti-emetic to prevent nausea.
Was it your doctor's directions that you should stop the drug without tapering? Actually, even using the 20mg capsules isn't a small enough dose to use to design an effective taper schedule. You would have to open the capsules and divide its contents into smaller doses.
Good luck with Pamelor (nortriptyline). Most people respond to 75mg when treating depression. Lower dosages seem to be effective when treating pain disorders like fibromyalgia and neuropathies. Although not necessary, one can monitor blood levels to determine if they are taking too much or too little. If this is your first time taking a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA), you might experience a great deal of sedation. However, this usually passes within a few days. Most people start at 10mg.
I wish you didn't have to go through such a torturous ordeal.
- Scott
Posted by gapsgal on June 11, 2006, at 9:51:53
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal » Avalon, posted by SLS on June 11, 2006, at 9:20:47
Well I am opening my 20 mgs. now and am down to 10 mgs. Not sure how far down I will need to go to avoid the awful withdrawals that I experienced on my previous taper.
I see my specialist Thursday regarding my kidney disease. I have seen on here there are others that have kidney function problems and although it has not been proven I just wonder if it could be drug related.
The liver can cause kidney disease when damaged, and Cymbalta has been proven to cause liver damage so by power of association i just wonder.
Donna
> > Well, it's day 5 since I discontinued the C-word. Each day I've felt progressively worse. Today is the worst -- dizzy and nauseous.
>
> You are going through the worst of it. Benadryl is sometimes used to lessen the severity of the withdrawal symptoms, although it can cause drowsiness. For the nausea, ginger might be helpful. It does several things in the body to treat things like dizziness and motion sickness. In fact, one of its components acts to block 5-HT3 serotonin receptors, just like the drug ondansetron, and thus can be used as an anti-emetic to prevent nausea.
>
> Was it your doctor's directions that you should stop the drug without tapering? Actually, even using the 20mg capsules isn't a small enough dose to use to design an effective taper schedule. You would have to open the capsules and divide its contents into smaller doses.
>
> Good luck with Pamelor (nortriptyline). Most people respond to 75mg when treating depression. Lower dosages seem to be effective when treating pain disorders like fibromyalgia and neuropathies. Although not necessary, one can monitor blood levels to determine if they are taking too much or too little. If this is your first time taking a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA), you might experience a great deal of sedation. However, this usually passes within a few days. Most people start at 10mg.
>
> I wish you didn't have to go through such a torturous ordeal.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by Avalon on June 11, 2006, at 12:47:26
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal » Avalon, posted by SLS on June 11, 2006, at 9:20:47
Scott, thanks for the advice. In response to your question, I had only been on Cymbalta 3 weeks so my dr. said to drop from 60 to 30 for 3 days then stop. I did so, then got very nauseous 3 days later. Went back on, then tapered VERY slowly for about 3 weeks. At the end I was opening the capsules and counting the tiny granules -- I think I was down to about 5 mg. when I stopped Mon. It is now Day 6, I just got up a little while ago and unfortunately, I'm still nauseous. I have to drive 2 hrs. later to go home for my appt tomorrow with my PM -- not sure how I'm going to handle driving while feeling like s*it. And as I mentioned, my dr. does not want to hear that my symptoms are being caused by Cym withdrawal. He will probably attribute it to the Kadian that I started taking Mon. I KNOW it's not the Kadian. I felt fine on Mon. and Tue., then started with slight nausea on Day 3, building to yesterday's dizziness/nausea. This is the same scenario I went through before with Cymbalta. Oh well... I am going to try to get a piece of toast down now...
Posted by kparis on June 11, 2006, at 13:28:50
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal » kparis, posted by SLS on June 11, 2006, at 8:39:36
The Klonopin helps with the nausea and the general all over aching.
I got my results back from my blood work and everything looks great! The edema is caused by the high bp which was caused by the Cymbalta. I'm on meds for that and it is back to normal and the edema is waning.
My doc told me that Cymbalta is now being given to children instead of Ritilan (sp?). How frightening is that?!
Kesta
Posted by SLS on June 11, 2006, at 13:33:14
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Avalon on June 11, 2006, at 12:47:26
> Scott, thanks for the advice. In response to your question, I had only been on Cymbalta 3 weeks so my dr. said to drop from 60 to 30 for 3 days then stop. I did so, then got very nauseous 3 days later. Went back on, then tapered VERY slowly for about 3 weeks. At the end I was opening the capsules and counting the tiny granules -- I think I was down to about 5 mg. when I stopped Mon. It is now Day 6, I just got up a little while ago and unfortunately, I'm still nauseous. I have to drive 2 hrs. later to go home for my appt tomorrow with my PM -- not sure how I'm going to handle driving while feeling like s*it. And as I mentioned, my dr. does not want to hear that my symptoms are being caused by Cym withdrawal. He will probably attribute it to the Kadian that I started taking Mon. I KNOW it's not the Kadian. I felt fine on Mon. and Tue., then started with slight nausea on Day 3, building to yesterday's dizziness/nausea. This is the same scenario I went through before with Cymbalta. Oh well... I am going to try to get a piece of toast down now...
Good luck :-)
I don't know what is preventing these doctors from acknowledging the existence withdrawal syndromes. Don't they see multiple patients who are reporting the same thing? It's not that rare. It must be a character flaw.
You did everything right.
I guess 2-3 weeks is the magic number. That's the time it takes for the brain to make some adjustments in response to the presence of the drug. Now, it must adjust to the absence of the drug. Your doctor probably doesn't fully appreciate how one can become accomodated to a drug after only two weeks.
What were the side effects that you experienced when you first started taking Cymbalta?
- Scott
Posted by Avalon on June 11, 2006, at 15:13:31
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal » Avalon, posted by SLS on June 11, 2006, at 13:33:14
My doctor does not believe that going from 60 mg to 30 to zero would cause withdrawal. He acknowledges that an abrupt discontinuance from say, 120 to nothing, would cause withdrawal, but feels the dose I was on was "nothing" and that I must've had the stomach flu. No, he said he's had no other patients go through this. I am hyper-sensitive to side effects so I'm not surprised I am experiencing this -- but I AM surprised he hasn't had ONE other patient who's had any problem going off it?
On your question about what side effects I had while I was on Cymbalta: I was only on it a few weeks and I did not have nausea while on it, but I did have dry mouth and burning/sore tongue that was making me miserable, so I decided to go off it. Little did I know what I was in for!
Posted by bethford on June 12, 2006, at 7:40:05
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by kparis on June 11, 2006, at 13:28:50
> The Klonopin helps with the nausea and the general all over aching.
>
>
Greetings Kesta,I was just looking through here for info about my own Cymbalta withdrawals and saw that you're taking Klonopin. Just wondering if you're aware that Klonopin is HIGHLY addictive. You may already know this, but wanted to pass the word along just in case you haven't.
And to all of you I'd like to say thanks--reading these threads have been very very helpful.
Posted by kparis on June 12, 2006, at 10:59:29
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal » kparis, posted by bethford on June 12, 2006, at 7:40:05
> > The Klonopin helps with the nausea and the general all over aching.
> >
> >
> Greetings Kesta,
>
> I was just looking through here for info about my own Cymbalta withdrawals and saw that you're taking Klonopin. Just wondering if you're aware that Klonopin is HIGHLY addictive. You may already know this, but wanted to pass the word along just in case you haven't.
>
> And to all of you I'd like to say thanks--reading these threads have been very very helpful.
Absolutely. I've used it in conjunction with the Cymbalta for my panic attacks. I completely stopped the K 8 weeks before the Cymbalta. Not a problem. I now take it for the stomach upset, etc. Thanks for your warning...it's appreciated. I take such a small dose (1/8 to 1/4 mg every other day or so) that I have no fear about getting off of it again. Also, my gastro doc suggested I take it when my stomach is bothering me from IBS...it helps with that too, but I won't use it for that because of the addictive qualities.
Kesta
Posted by kparis on June 13, 2006, at 5:52:40
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by kparis on June 12, 2006, at 10:59:29
Hi,
This is for everyone. I've been off of Cymbalta 3 weeks tomorrow. I still feel horrible! I have to sleep sitting up because when I start to go to sleep I wake up because I can't breath. It goes on all night even if I'm sitting up (it just happens less often) and when I get up in the morning I feel as if I've been runing in a marathon and my chest aches, it is hard to breath, my limbs feel almost numb, I'm tired, and it feels like the beginning of a really bad panic attack in that I feel as if I'm going to have a heart attack. Everything checked out (heart, kidneys, liver, etc.) so I don't know what my deal is. HELP! Anyone else experience this and if so, for how long.
Thank you, everyone!
Kesta P
Posted by kparis on June 13, 2006, at 5:57:06
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by kparis on June 13, 2006, at 5:52:40
Me again...I guess I'm wondering if I'll ever feel normal again. Sometimes I would like to just stop as I am having such a hard time going on. I've never experienced severe depression before, and I don't know if this is it, but will the Cymbalta do this to one when one is withdrawing?
Thanks again,
Kesta
Posted by Avalon on June 13, 2006, at 11:44:21
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by kparis on June 13, 2006, at 5:57:06
Kesta, I feel the same. Very despondent. I keep telling myself it's the withdrawal and it WILL get better. Let's continue to support each other through this.
I am now going into week #2 off C-word. As I anticipated, my PM absolutely does not attribute my nausea/dizziness to withdrawal and thought I had an inner ear infection. When my ears checked out OK, he had no further explanation. We decided I would also discontinue the Kadian I had started last week in case that is contributing (though I took it 2 days with no problem). He gave me scrips for anti-nausea and anti-dizziness meds, which have helped but left me feeling like a limp dishrag. I slept last night for 12 hours.
Hang in!
Posted by kparis on June 13, 2006, at 16:34:10
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Avalon on June 13, 2006, at 11:44:21
> Kesta, I feel the same. Very despondent. I keep telling myself it's the withdrawal and it WILL get better. Let's continue to support each other through this.
>
> I am now going into week #2 off C-word. As I anticipated, my PM absolutely does not attribute my nausea/dizziness to withdrawal and thought I had an inner ear infection. When my ears checked out OK, he had no further explanation. We decided I would also discontinue the Kadian I had started last week in case that is contributing (though I took it 2 days with no problem). He gave me scrips for anti-nausea and anti-dizziness meds, which have helped but left me feeling like a limp dishrag. I slept last night for 12 hours.
>
> Hang in!Thank you for your support, it truly means so much to me to know that someone understands and cares. My biggest issue has been not being able to breath when I try to sleep. Because of the weight gain my sleep apnea has risen its ugly head again. I'm off to the sleep clinic in a few weeks to get fitted for the CPAP machine. Oh well. I'm off to FL next week to help a long-time friend move down there and I am nervous about being away from home. I'll make the best of it...and then when I get back my daughter is getting married (her previous husband died of an oxcycodone (sp?) overdose 2 years ago in my house) and hopefully she will be happy this time.
Life is a trip.
I hope you feel better. Yes! We will keep in touch and support each other. Thank you.
Kesta
Posted by kparis on June 15, 2006, at 5:38:34
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by kparis on June 13, 2006, at 16:34:10
Hey Avalon,
Just wondering how you're doing. I keep thinking about doctors and their way of making one feel like one does not know their own body. Thank goodness not all are like that. Guess I've been lucky. Have you thought about seeing a different doctor?
Take care and please let me know how you're doing.
BTW...I've been off 3 weeks and 1 day now and counting!
Kesta
Posted by Avalon on June 15, 2006, at 10:40:11
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by kparis on June 15, 2006, at 5:38:34
Hey Kesta, thanks for thinking of me. Today is 10 days for me. I still felt tired and a bit dizzy yesterday. Today I feel almost back to normal, but a few dizzy spells here and there. I don't want to take the vertigo med because it makes me tired.
This doctor has filled out my disability forms so I need his support for my continued leave of absence; hence, I don't particularly want to change doctors. I just don't want meds forced on me when I KNOW how sensitive I am to almost everything. I WILL try them -- I just need to take time, not introduce too many at once, let one get out of my system before trying the next one.
How are you doing, any better?
Posted by kparis on June 17, 2006, at 8:35:12
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Avalon on June 15, 2006, at 10:40:11
Hi Avalon,
Glad you're feeling better. I have ups and downs. Yesterday was pretty good but then I saw a painted turtle get killed trying to cross the road and I got really bitchy! It seems like the uselessness of some people's actions really irk me...more that usual right about now. Oh well, if that is the worst thing that is happening right now I guess I'm doing great!
Take care and keep me posted!
Kesta
Posted by Avalon on June 17, 2006, at 10:56:40
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by kparis on June 17, 2006, at 8:35:12
Believe it or not, I am STILL having dizzy spells. It is soooo annoying. I am splitting the anti-vertigo pills in half so I don't get so tired, but I still need them. Then the dizziness gives me little waves of nausea. This is day 12, and I was down to probably 5 mg every other day. Yet my doctor says it's not the Cymbalta. I'm not taking anything else -- except the stuff to counter-act the dizziness and nausea!!! I heard a guy in the pharmacy yesterday getting a scrip filled for Cymbalta -- I felt like saying, "DON'T DO IT!!!!"
I wanted to know how Jaspar is doing, we haven't heard from you lately. Are you still having the dizzy spells? PLEASE tell me no. This is ridiculous!!! I'm starting to wonder if they EVER go away....?
Doctor also prescribed Ultram for pain -- anyone have any experience with this? At this point, I'm afraid to try anything!
Posted by SLS on June 17, 2006, at 12:42:12
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Avalon on June 17, 2006, at 10:56:40
> Believe it or not, I am STILL having dizzy spells. It is soooo annoying. I am splitting the anti-vertigo pills in half so I don't get so tired, but I still need them. Then the dizziness gives me little waves of nausea. This is day 12, and I was down to probably 5 mg every other day. Yet my doctor says it's not the Cymbalta. I'm not taking anything else -- except the stuff to counter-act the dizziness and nausea!!! I heard a guy in the pharmacy yesterday getting a scrip filled for Cymbalta -- I felt like saying, "DON'T DO IT!!!!"
>
> I wanted to know how Jaspar is doing, we haven't heard from you lately. Are you still having the dizzy spells? PLEASE tell me no. This is ridiculous!!! I'm starting to wonder if they EVER go away....?
>
> Doctor also prescribed Ultram for pain -- anyone have any experience with this? At this point, I'm afraid to try anything!
I have no personal experience with Ultram. It is considered to be a mild opioid, and probably makes a better first choice than something like oxycontin. The thing is, it also acts like a SRI of sorts. If you decide to take it, I would be very interested to know if it helps with withdrawal symptoms.
- Scott
Posted by Avalon on June 18, 2006, at 1:01:23
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by SLS on June 17, 2006, at 12:42:12
Scott, I need a lesson here: What's an opioid v. a narcotic? I understand Ultram is non-narcotic, but I thought opioids were narcotics...? Also, what is an SRI? I am already taking Percocet (is that an SRI?) and it doesn't help much with the withdrawal symptoms. Thanks for your help.
Posted by SLS on June 18, 2006, at 8:35:31
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by Avalon on June 18, 2006, at 1:01:23
> Scott, I need a lesson here: What's an opioid v. a narcotic? I understand Ultram is non-narcotic, but I thought opioids were narcotics...? Also, what is an SRI? I am already taking Percocet (is that an SRI?) and it doesn't help much with the withdrawal symptoms. Thanks for your help.
Hi Avalon.
I have to plead ignorance on this one. The term "narcotic" seems to have various definitions, including those that are dictated by drug enforcement agencies.
From Dictionary.com:"An addictive drug, such as opium, that reduces pain, alters mood and behavior, and usually induces sleep or stupor. Natural and synthetic narcotics are used in medicine to control pain."
"A drug derived from opium or opium like compounds, with potent analgesic effects associated with significant alteration of mood and behavior, and with the potential for dependence and tolerance following repeated administration."
Doctors don't like to use the word "narcotic" because it has become a pejorative in many contexts. They prefer to distinguish them by their chemical class or target receptor - opioids.
SRI = serotonin reuptake inhibitor
SSRI = selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor
SNRI = serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor
Drugs like Effexor and Cymbalta are both potent serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SRI), but they are not selective. They also inhibit the reuptake of norepephrine. Thus, they have been given the acronym SNRI.
Ultram (tramadol) is chemically related to Effexor, and possesses some SRI properties. I don't know how they compare with respect to relative potency. Ultram is considered to be an opioid because it acts to stimulate opioid receptors in the brain. Perhaps the reason why it is not considered to be a narcotic is because it is not derived from opium. Because Ultram is a SRI, I would be interested to know whether or not it can help with withdrawal symptoms.
Percocet is a drug preparation that combines oxycodone with acetaminophen (Tylenol). Oxycodone is a more potent opioid than Ultram, but does not possess any SRI properties. I wouldn't expect it to ease withdrawal symptoms.
Are you supposed to switch drugs or are you to add the Ultram to the Percocet?
I don't blame you for wanting to avoid drugs altogether. I feel the same way.
Did your pain lessen while you were on Cymbalta?
- Scott
Posted by kparis on June 18, 2006, at 9:52:29
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal » Avalon, posted by SLS on June 18, 2006, at 8:35:31
My neck and shoulder pain lessened while I was on Cymbalta. However, I've gone another, more natural route to ease the pain.
I'm going on 4 weeks cold turkey...what a horrible ride it's been. But I can see the end in sight.
Kesta
Posted by SLS on June 18, 2006, at 10:14:20
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal, posted by kparis on June 18, 2006, at 9:52:29
> My neck and shoulder pain lessened while I was on Cymbalta. However, I've gone another, more natural route to ease the pain.
If you don't mind my asking, what are you doing to reduce the pain?
> I'm going on 4 weeks cold turkey...what a horrible ride it's been.
I can imagine. I've been there. I've had an easier time discontinuing drugs like Effexor and Cymbalta since I began to use a taper system.
> But I can see the end in sight.
That's good news. It is hard to believe that withdrawal symptoms can persist for so long, yet some people experience no withdrawal effects at all. We are all so different.
Good luck with your pain control regime.
- Scott
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