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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by brazilnut on April 30, 2006, at 8:37:07
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by johnnyj on April 29, 2006, at 10:09:15
> I have been on 3.75 since Tuesday. I slept great on Thursday night. I had acupuncture on Friday and slept ok, woke up in the middle of the night once. When falling asleep I jerked awake once and that was not fun.
>
> Acupuncutre didn't seem to do much for me to tell you the truth. I will go few more times and see if there is any benefit.
>
> I definately feel that a slow taper is probably best since I can feel the grip of sponge brain lessen a tad since reducing my dose. Things are clearer also, but there is a little anxiety.
>
> How is everyone else doing?
>
> cheers
> johnnyj
Hi there!I have being reading the posts for a while, and it has helped me. Thanks to all that contribute with support and information.
I reduced my mirtazapine from 45 to 22.5mg in a month, but instead of making it by steps I did it progressively, each night a little less than the previous. My doctor oriented me to take the step approach and stay 30 days on 22.5 mg. Until yesterday, after 18 days on the same dosage, I felt quite stabilized and had thoughts of starting a new reduction. But last night I had a sudden crisis, with increased abdominal pains, heat over the whole body, extreme anxiety, difficulty to sleep, nightmares…
I am taking also risperidone, 0,35mg daily, prescribed to help me overcome the w/d symptoms. Yesterday I learned that risperidone is also a drug with potential for serious troubles. I believe now it was a bad move.
I’ve read many feedbacks on mirtazapine on the web, and some mentioned a kind of pain in the back. Does anyone know something about that? I have a pain in the back that I believe is a problem in the spine, but doctors are not so sure. Could it be related to mirtazapine?
Regards,
Bob
Posted by little mommy on April 30, 2006, at 16:05:07
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on April 29, 2006, at 21:58:07
I, too, have been on 3.75 (darn if those pills are hard to split to that size) and so far so good. I am not craving food as much and have been sleeping okay. I do wake up through the night but I have had no difficulty falling back to sleep. I am going to taper very, very gradually trying to even split the 3.75 into something smaller. I am going to see a naturopath this week as I want to get off these drugs and do something natural. I will be getting hormones checked and everything. I am pre menopausal and I think that this is the cause of my anxiety, etc. It sounds like that you all are hanging in there and doing what you know works for you. I wish you all the best.
Little Mommy
Posted by Marian29 on May 1, 2006, at 5:57:44
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by little mommy on April 30, 2006, at 16:05:07
Little Mommy, when I was pre-menopausal I took small doses of melatonin for sleep, and it worked well (for awhile). Maybe that would be a good solution for you.
I am still struggling with sleep---even with some Ativan, I wake up many times a night. And the other thing I've been noticing is sheer exhaustion during the day. This may be a result of not sleeping, or a direct effect of cold turkey withdrawal. Or maybe the Remeron was giving me artificial energy, which is a scary thought.
I'd love to know what you find out about natural ways to sleep, Little Mommy. Good luck to you!
Posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 8:50:38
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by Marian29 on April 29, 2006, at 16:01:39
Oh my god, I am experiencing the same as you are! Last night I started to drift off and had this terrible "startle" and it kept me up most of the night. The thing is it happens after I take my dose of remeron??? Maybe I just need to stop the dose and gut it out?? Because if I stop the head problems will be better.
I started to think I just had anxiety and it was coming back and I must have an AD. I don't think this is true, I hope it is not. I think it is withdrawal as this is the 7th day after cutting my dose. I finally slept from about 3:30 to 6 but I am wiped out. Heavy head too. This sucks. Is this withdrawal?
Posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 8:55:21
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » Marian29, posted by jules354 on April 29, 2006, at 21:55:53
Good to hear that someone else experience this startle stuff, well not good for you though. Did you have trouble falling asleep or just have anxiety after waking?
Did you try Lunesta for sleep? Will trazadone knock me out? What about morning hangover?
I also had some shock type stuff yesterday in my head. Very weird. Kind of like a headache but then a slight shock and then it went away.
I am starting to think that maybe tapering is just prolonging the agony? And that I might be better served going to 0 from the 3.75 in a week or so.
Posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 8:59:54
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by Marian29 on April 29, 2006, at 16:01:39
For what it is worth my doctor said don't use bendryl. Something about the antihistamine effect combined with remeron's antihistamine stuff.
I am thinking xanax might be helpful? Any suggestions out there? We have trazadone mentioned and I will look into it.
johnnyj
Posted by anahata31 on May 1, 2006, at 9:36:33
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » jules354, posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 8:55:21
from johnnyj:
> I am starting to think that maybe tapering is just prolonging the agony? And that I might be better served going to 0 from the 3.75 in a week or so.i hear you. i'm down to crumbs now - about 2 mg - and was wondering if i should just stop right now. i already experience withdrawal anyway, and i don't want to prolong the side-effects for longer than necessary. to tell the truth, i think a lot of it has to do with the fear of being pill-free. even though this is just what i want, i am so used to the habit of taking a pill before bed (before remeron, it was sleeping pills) that i am very nervous to go without. perhaps a natural supplement such as valerian will help. for now, i only go to bed when i feel tired, and if i don't get enough sleep, being light-headed for most of the day still is better than feeling full-headed and hangover after 8 or 9 hours of remeron sleep.
the main side-effects so far, besides insomnia, are dizzyness and some nausea. intense cravings for carbs and sugar are pretty much gone. i also definitely feel full much faster now, and lost about 5 pounds in the last two weeks. so, for the person who was wondering about the weight gain induced by remeron, in my experience, and if you exercice and eat well, you will lose most of it pretty fast.
i wish i could do something about the dizzyness, which tends to be worst after exercice, or even just walking. sitting down, drinking water are the only helpful things i can think of right now, but i know this is only temporary. i've also been experiencing all sorts of strange little things, like suddenly increased heart beat, some pressure in my chest, legs falling easily asleep, ears ringing, etc. i don't know how much of it has to do with withdrawal, of if it's anxiety, or if i'm simply too focussed on my physical state right now. what i know is, the less i think about it, and the more i get absorbed in activities i enjoy, the less it bothers me.
and it is the month of may. i can't think of a better time to be off chemicals. best of luck,
nathalie
Posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 10:06:47
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by anahata31 on May 1, 2006, at 9:36:33
I too have the nausea, and full chest. The full chest stuff was worse when I tried to taper before. But, that is denfinately a side effect. The sleep stuff is the most disturbing and I am going to see my doc in a week and get some ideas. I have some dizsiness but not too bad. The nausea started today, about day 7 or so of my reduction. Sleep meds worry me so I am just going to take something every other day or three if I have too. I do feel that my heart starts to beat faster for no apparent reason at times. I will not do much excercise because that might be too stimulating for me. I just want to SLEEP.
johnnyj
Posted by Marian29 on May 1, 2006, at 10:16:07
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 10:06:47
Jonny, sorry, I didn't see your last posts. I think it's ok to take Benadryl once the Remeron is completely out of your system--which it is in my case since it's been 10 days since my last dose of 15 mg. I agree, I wouldn't take it on top of Remeron--that's a lot of antihistamine.
I'm having dizziness, too. If I roll over in bed, the world starts to spin. But I think that will pass.
I had nausea while tapering but none now that I'm off. It really does go away quickly.
As for xanax, yes, it helps, but not as much as I would like. It really doesn't help me sleep anymore, although it did at the very beginning of my withdrawal. I have to take it for anxiety from time to time.
Posted by jules354 on May 1, 2006, at 12:59:20
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » jules354, posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 8:55:21
i had lots of trouble falling asleep and i also woke up w/ the startle during the night after i discontinued the remeron. v. troubled sleep, like only 2-3 continuous hours/night. but it did get better and i'm sleeping all the way thru now. i still frequently wake in the morning after 6-7 hours of sleep with some anxiety, but that just might be stress.
i really liked trazadone. it was very mild, non habit forming, and didn't cause a hangover for me. i was on a v. low dose, maybe 5 or 10 mg? i can't remember. i stopped taking it when i started the remeron bcs rem. made me sleep. trazadone was originally developed just as an AD but because of its nice sedative effect they usu. prescribe it primarily for sleeping but of course the AD effect doesn't hurt either.
hang in there johnnyj.
take care,
jules
Posted by jules354 on May 1, 2006, at 13:01:53
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by anahata31 on May 1, 2006, at 9:36:33
i've had some dizziness, too. weird!
i would REALLY recommend limiting caffeine (elimitating altogether if you can stand it, at least for a few weeks). it made my sleep much better when i was in heavy w/d from remeron and helped w/ the jittery anxiety too. i feel like since stopping the rem. i'm much more sensitive to caffeine than before, which is kind of good actually. helps me keep it in moderation.
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 14:04:46
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on May 1, 2006, at 12:59:20
Thank you for you post. It is so very helpful to have people post as it can make one get through the day :)
After I ate lunch things have calmed down. Last night was brutal. The funny thing is it happened about 30 minutes after my 3.75 dose. I did have lots of anxiety when I started remeron so having similiar feelings when quitting is not crazy.
I am very anxious to discuss things with my doc next Monday.
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by jules354 on May 1, 2006, at 21:06:57
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » jules354, posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 14:04:46
hi johnnyj,
i'm so glad you're feeling better. my w/d was REALLY up and down (i guess i can say i'm over it now, for the most part). if you had the anxiety when you started rem., i wonder if like all side effects it's worse in lower doses?
take care,
jules
Posted by musky on May 2, 2006, at 1:19:05
In reply to Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » musky, posted by johnnyj on April 26, 2006, at 9:29:04
>
hi johnny
yes im on 2mg (have been for about 3months), whats strange, maybe not really but i had a complete mood drop the other day,, real down like no will to go on... but i kept going doing my things and just kept telling myself its probably the body still adjusting. this is the first time my mood was that off since coming down to this dose... it was scary.. but i didnt give up... it seems to have passed,,, didnt do anything(im not giving in to meds!!!) but just told myself over and over it will pass and that i felt better before and that it is just the stupid remeron... I really believe that this drug is far more potent than they say,,, it really messes up ones thoughts.. Also more tired at this dose(which makes sense ) cause all what i have found out about it is that it is more sedating at the lower doses..
As far as helping with anxiety as they "claim it does" that a load cause I have had nothing but agitation big time since on this crap... better now at the lower doses and as i said in previous posts , that this herbal relax has helped this along too...20 days and counting til im free of this stuff!
Musky
I slept close to 7 hours so I feel ok, a little anxious but that is to be expected. I feel a little spacey but not bad.
>
> If you are on 2 mg I think it is just a matter of time before you are off for good. I can't reall see much benefit at these lower doses for anixety or depression. I think if you are on a low dose and have stabilized it is doable. I go for acupuncture this Friday.
>
> cheers
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on May 2, 2006, at 1:24:54
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by Marian29 on April 26, 2006, at 12:28:53
> you got that right ,,, nothing is worth the wt gain... never have i felt MORE depressed and ugly than being on this horrible stuff... I NEVER was over weight or flabby or puffy and all that stuff before!!! I went from a cute 107lbs and size5/7 clothes to 145lbs , size 12!!!! my whole life was at this 107lbs wt!! I didnt even weigh that much when i was 9months pregnant with either one of my kids ! and this wt gain i got was so fast and very puffy in my face, etc..it was totally NOT normal.... they need to totally ban this drug!
Sorry but it set me back for almost 3yrs not being able to dress in my clothes ,,,Musky
I'd only been taking it for four months, so I guess I was lucky. It sounds like a true horror to get off of if you've been on it for longer than that.
>
> Yeah, the nightmares and the night sweats--what an experience! But a little Benadryl really does seem to help. I also have very low dose xanax (.25 mg) on hand, and have had to take it in the middle of the night occasionally.
>
> My insomnia was terrible before the Remeron, which was one of the reasons the psych gave it to me. I'll be starting from square one on that again. But nothing is worth the weight gain.
Posted by musky on May 2, 2006, at 1:31:55
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by johnnyj on April 29, 2006, at 10:09:15
> hey johnny
keep going to acupuncture for a bit... it takes time to balance the body... and remember,, any med will interefere with the body's response to acupuncture as well, could take longer to notice any difference..
for me it has helped ALOT with minimizing withdrawls... ive been at this for a year.. but its has been totally worth it... Im in the whole damn race here... gotta keep goingGood luck
musky
I have been on 3.75 since Tuesday. I slept great on Thursday night. I had acupuncture on Friday and slept ok, woke up in the middle of the night once. When falling asleep I jerked awake once and that was not fun.
>
> Acupuncutre didn't seem to do much for me to tell you the truth. I will go few more times and see if there is any benefit.
>
> I definately feel that a slow taper is probably best since I can feel the grip of sponge brain lessen a tad since reducing my dose. Things are clearer also, but there is a little anxiety.
>
> How is everyone else doing?
>
> cheers
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on May 2, 2006, at 1:35:56
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by Marian29 on April 29, 2006, at 16:01:39
>hey marian29, try acupuncture for insomnia... it helped me... or try some herbal remedies,,, much safer than meds of any kind.
good for you for not wanting to depend on another med for sleep.. believe it or not you willnot die from lack of sleep... the body does kick in. keep up the exercise..
oh ya, warm milk,is a natural sedative, valarian tea,,, self hypnosis,,, lavender essential oil. a long hot bath,, try swimming at night ,
hope this helps you out girl
take care
musky
Glad you're doing well, Johnny! Hope the anxiety doesn't get too bad for you.
>
> I'm off completely as of a week ago. No depression, manageable leve of anxiety--but it's almost impossible to sleep. As I start to drift off, I wake up in a panic, and this happens over and over again all night. I tried Benadryl, but it didn't work; my doc gave me some Ambien, but that makes me horribly down and wiped out the next day--it's not worth it.
>
> I really don't want to take another drug to get to sleep, but may need to find some relief soon. Any ideas out there? (I'm postmenopausal, very physically active).
>
> Thanks!
Posted by Marian29 on May 2, 2006, at 16:51:54
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by musky on February 22, 2006, at 19:51:26
Thanks for the advice. I'm going crazy due to insufficient sleep. But the insomnia isn't caused by the remeron withdrawal--I had that before I took the drug. I tried valerian, but it made me feel funny. Maybe I'll try melatonin again.
Posted by musky on May 3, 2006, at 0:37:33
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by little mommy on April 30, 2006, at 16:05:07
> Good for you little mommy.... yes its kinda tricky to cut even smaller than 3.75, but you be surprised what determination can do, lol
I even just ever so carefully break a piece off of the smallest(3.75mg) size with my finger nail.. i assume its about 2mg when i say this in my posts..
Good luck
I firmly believe a very slow taper is best, I have mangaged this way through the whole thing so far.... i have weaned from original 45mg all the way down to 2mg! so I guess thats pretty good, and have taken Absolutely NO MEDS(other than a little advil) for withdrawls... it has been totally acupuncture and herbs and stubborness.Hang in
I, too, have been on 3.75 (darn if those pills are hard to split to that size) and so far so good. I am not craving food as much and have been sleeping okay. I do wake up through the night but I have had no difficulty falling back to sleep. I am going to taper very, very gradually trying to even split the 3.75 into something smaller. I am going to see a naturopath this week as I want to get off these drugs and do something natural. I will be getting hormones checked and everything. I am pre menopausal and I think that this is the cause of my anxiety, etc. It sounds like that you all are hanging in there and doing what you know works for you. I wish you all the best.
>
> Little Mommy
Posted by musky on May 3, 2006, at 0:40:18
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » Marian29, posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 8:50:38
Hey johnnny ... i think your heavy head etc, is withdrawl.. i experienced this too for the longest time every cut I would make... it seems better these days...
musky
Posted by musky on May 3, 2006, at 0:43:47
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » Marian29, posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 8:59:54
>
johnny,
I would stay away from trazadone... its an ANTIDEPRESSANT! and that is the very thing you are trying to kick, is it not???
Try chamomile tea, hot milk(natural sedative), calcium/Magnesium(natural muscle relaxant with the Magnesium part), before bed,,, also try to exercise regularlyGood luck
MuskyFor what it is worth my doctor said don't use bendryl. Something about the antihistamine effect combined with remeron's antihistamine stuff.
>
> I am thinking xanax might be helpful? Any suggestions out there? We have trazadone mentioned and I will look into it.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on May 3, 2006, at 0:54:12
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by anahata31 on May 1, 2006, at 9:36:33
> from johnnyj:
> > I am starting to think that maybe tapering is just prolonging the agony? And that I might be better served going to 0 from the 3.75 in a week or so.
>
Right on nathalie!I agree with your attitude,, this post keeps me going too.. I too am on crumbs and the docs keep saying that there is no way i should feel anything at such a low dose,, HOWEVER homeopaths and my acupuncturist Both INSIST that the lower the dose the more the body WILL notice the change as it tries to create crisis to get the drug back into itself... like homepathic theory is based on the less the agent the more potent,, What i mean is at first when you are first taking Remeron it takes a while to build a "titer" in your blood stream... so that after a while you become "sensitized " to this drug,,, therefore now any little amount affects you.. almost like an allergic reaction... So im told that when you get completely off .. that thats when the real test comes in... im still trying to remain positive and have to remember how much is really the drug and how much is "anticipated" withdrawls.
I too find that when i keep busy, i forget im weaning and its not as bad..
As far as the fear of insomnia coming back,, i would rather be tired like you say and be free of this than be heavy headed and dizzy and tense every friggin morning after taking remeron the night before... even the 2mg still has this effect on me... We know our own bodies,,, NOT the p/docs!!!Good luck with your journey
Musky
> i hear you. i'm down to crumbs now - about 2 mg - and was wondering if i should just stop right now. i already experience withdrawal anyway, and i don't want to prolong the side-effects for longer than necessary. to tell the truth, i think a lot of it has to do with the fear of being pill-free. even though this is just what i want, i am so used to the habit of taking a pill before bed (before remeron, it was sleeping pills) that i am very nervous to go without. perhaps a natural supplement such as valerian will help. for now, i only go to bed when i feel tired, and if i don't get enough sleep, being light-headed for most of the day still is better than feeling full-headed and hangover after 8 or 9 hours of remeron sleep.
>
> the main side-effects so far, besides insomnia, are dizzyness and some nausea. intense cravings for carbs and sugar are pretty much gone. i also definitely feel full much faster now, and lost about 5 pounds in the last two weeks. so, for the person who was wondering about the weight gain induced by remeron, in my experience, and if you exercice and eat well, you will lose most of it pretty fast.
>
> i wish i could do something about the dizzyness, which tends to be worst after exercice, or even just walking. sitting down, drinking water are the only helpful things i can think of right now, but i know this is only temporary. i've also been experiencing all sorts of strange little things, like suddenly increased heart beat, some pressure in my chest, legs falling easily asleep, ears ringing, etc. i don't know how much of it has to do with withdrawal, of if it's anxiety, or if i'm simply too focussed on my physical state right now. what i know is, the less i think about it, and the more i get absorbed in activities i enjoy, the less it bothers me.
>
> and it is the month of may. i can't think of a better time to be off chemicals. best of luck,
> nathalie
>
>
Posted by musky on May 3, 2006, at 0:56:49
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by johnnyj on May 1, 2006, at 10:06:47
>
hey i forgot to mention too in previous posts that I was getting heart palpatations... again acupuncture has helped this believe it or not!And as far as sleeping aids.. try natural stuff ,,not addicting.. your doc, will just tell u about Rx. stuff,, thats ALL they know.
Good luck
MuskyI too have the nausea, and full chest. The full chest stuff was worse when I tried to taper before. But, that is denfinately a side effect. The sleep stuff is the most disturbing and I am going to see my doc in a week and get some ideas. I have some dizsiness but not too bad. The nausea started today, about day 7 or so of my reduction. Sleep meds worry me so I am just going to take something every other day or three if I have too. I do feel that my heart starts to beat faster for no apparent reason at times. I will not do much excercise because that might be too stimulating for me. I just want to SLEEP.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on May 3, 2006, at 1:06:30
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by Marian29 on May 2, 2006, at 16:51:54
>
marian29 ,
try not to stress about the not sleeping,,, just keep saying calm thoughts to yourself if you wake up and/or cant fall asleep... I find this helps me
When my sleeping was broken while weaning , my acupuncurist treated for this and it works!! look into this form of therapy if you think this is for yu...
yes,,, valerian is good, but then can make you alittle wierd,, but then it isnt supposed to be taken while on an antidepressant really... and it is for short term use only..
try hot milk or chammomile tea..
Also calcium /magnesium supplements relax the muscles and promote sleep.
I also heard from a friend at work who suffers from anxiety that vitamin E and Vitamin C(i think?) are beneficial for this too.. antioxidants supposedly help with panic feelings, broken sleep etc.
let me know how you doMusky
Thanks for the advice. I'm going crazy due to insufficient sleep. But the insomnia isn't caused by the remeron withdrawal--I had that before I took the drug. I tried valerian, but it made me feel funny. Maybe I'll try melatonin again.
>
>
Posted by anahata31 on May 3, 2006, at 8:40:16
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by musky on May 3, 2006, at 0:54:12
from musky:
> I too am on crumbs and the docs keep saying that there is no >way i should feel anything at such a low dose,, HOWEVER >homeopaths and my acupuncturist Both INSIST that the lower >the dose the more the body WILL notice the change as it tries >to create crisis to get the drug back into itself...
thanks for your post -- it definitely got me thinking. what you (and your homeopath and acupuncturist) say makes a lot of sense, especially now that i am on such a low dose, and about to quit.
i remember when i first asked my pharmacist to cut the 30mg pills in 4 parts, and he told me "this is an homeopathic dose! you won't get any benefits, or feel anything really". it made me feel wrongly confident about how easy it would be to stop the medication, but i soon realized i was dealing with a pharmacist who was clueless about remeron.
i have a very kind and patient doctor, but i sometimes feel that he isn't entirely aware of how remeron can affect a person, even at low-dose, and that quitting isn't as easy as he says it is. after months and months of heavy sleep, the kind of which i've never had in my life, it is quite the lifestyle change to go back to my natural, light-sleeping ways (not to mention my natural, light-eating ways!) so i need to listen to my body, trust myself and my own will, instead of feeling weird that i'm having not so good of a time, when my doc says it should be as easy as 1-2-3. all the posts on here helps a lot - and good luck on your journey, too.
nathalie
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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