![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 17 to 41 of 91. Go back in thread:
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 15:41:02
In reply to Re: the cold of winter » Deneb, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2006, at 1:06:01
> Deneb, I really do appreciate the love you've put into that scarf, but Poet is right, I'd rather it went to someone who'd be cold without it. Thanks,
>
> BobOkay Dr. Bob, I'll do whatever makes you happy. I'll give the scarf to the homeless on your behalf. Thanks for appreciating the love. :-)
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 17:11:01
In reply to Re: the cold of winter » Dr. Bob, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 15:41:02
I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf? Maybe Dr. Bob already has a lot of scarves and he doesn't need another one. Maybe Dr. Bob doesn't wear scarves, maybe it's not that cold in the winter in Chicago.
Hmmmm...anyone else have any ideas? What's the most likely reason?
Deneb*
Posted by Dinah on April 4, 2006, at 17:19:53
In reply to I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 17:11:01
I think you should reread special k's post about it. She seemed to have good insight.
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 18:11:13
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » Deneb, posted by Dinah on April 4, 2006, at 17:19:53
I found what special k wrote to me:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060317/msgs/626960.html
Special K wrote:
> I think he made it pretty clear that he didn't really want you to do the scarf thing... He would have preferred you to have spent your time doing something nice for everyone who was going to the party.
>
> But you kind of disregarded that...
>
> WHich is okay I guess...
>
> But the cost / possible cost to that...
>
> Is that at times you say it is a 'small gift'
> Then at times you say how much love you are putting into it which makes it actually a gift that is extremely laden with symbolism
> Then you say you hope he takes it
> (I mean if he doesn't then that will be a symbol for you of him rejecting your love)
> But you say better for him to not take it than to throw it away (which you would take as a symbol for him rejecting your love)
>
> And so what is he supposed to to?
>
> Take it.
>
> But he has already said...
>
> I don't know.
>
>
> I think you should talk to your t about this...
>
> I think...
>
> And maybe it is just me...
>
> But I think maybe he has become... Something along the lines of... How you might have viewed your father when you were a little kid?http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060317/msgs/627211.html
> > It's only laden with symbolism for me. I just want Bob to see it as a scarf.
>
> though it is probably going to be a little hard for him to do that after reading on the boards just how much symbolism you are loading into it...
>
> therapists have to think about this when it comes to gifts too... some therapists have a (black and white) rule about not accepting gifts period. others will under certain circumstances. etc.
>
> i guess the main reason i wanted to say this stuff is because... he might have a policy on not accepting gifts... which has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH HIM REJECTING YOUR LOVE. thats all i'm getting at.. he said he didn't really want you to do that... he could be a bit awkward if you try and give it to him (especially since he does indeed appreciate what it symbolises) and then he has to decide whether to go with what he said already (and he does seem to value consistency as do you) only the trouble is you might get all upset and feel really rejected... or he could just take it... in which case what... you will feel all happy... and be talking about how you have given him a gift to symbolise your love... and then what? other posters get the presents rolling in?
>
> i don't know... i don't know what he is supposed to to. and i don't understnad how this can come to anything good...
>
> > > I think you should talk to your t about this...
>
> > I'll try to remember to bring it up.
>
> mmm. might be worth thinking whether it is worth trying to give it to him... i guess i'd be thinking bout that. don't get me wrong... enjoy making it. really. think of him as you are making it. whatever. but do it for you and enjoy it for you.
>
> i dunno. maybe i'm just harming.
>
> i'm sorry if i'm hurting.
>
> hope others can jump in
>
> > > But I think maybe he has become... Something along the lines of... How you might have viewed your father when you were a little kid?
>
> > Maybe, I don't know.
>
> well i guess you are the only one who would know. how did you feel about your father when you were a little kid? do you remember?Sorry I forgot to answer special k's question. My Dad and I have never been close. We don't really talk to each other. He shows his love by doing things like drive me places. My Dad was never around when I was little. He had to work all the time. I didn't really feel much for my Dad when I was little. I never really got attached to him.
Could it be that I see Dr. Bob like a father? He protects me from incivility and punishes me when I'm misbehaving. I never really got that from my parents. I rarely felt protected by my parents and they never punished me. My Mom used to ignore me when I was misbehaving. Dr. Bob ignores me too. I think maybe Dr. Bob is old enough to be my father. I don't think that helps. Also, Dr. Bob has a Chinese name, that suggests he comes from a Chinese family. That doesn't help either. LOL Just one more thing that makes him like a father.
Oh dear...LOL
Special k wrote about some therapists having a no gift policy, but I don't see how that relates to this situation. Dr. Bob is not my therapist. I know the no gift policy has to do with ethics, but what would the reason be for Dr. Bob?
Deneb*
Posted by zazenduck on April 4, 2006, at 18:33:33
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 18:11:13
It almost seems like he wants to continue to engage with you about this. Wouldn't it have been simpler to take the gift say thank you and not make an issue about it? (Oh and don't forget to send a thank you note)
Dr Bob doesn't always see social norms the way others do....it's just part of being Dr Bob.
Refusing to accept it just makes it into a bigger deal and continues the dialogue with all this wondering why! I can see a therapist reacting in this way but a forum owner??
Of course Mrs Bob may have a strict no gifts from girls under 25 policy for Bob and she may have laid down the law!! But geez it was a scarf not a set of underwear!
I like you Deneb. I admire your spirit. PLEASE don't let this upset you and get yourself blocked or ruin your trip to Toronto,ok?
Posted by zazenduck on April 4, 2006, at 18:53:15
In reply to Re: the cold of winter » Deneb, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2006, at 1:06:01
To recognize the quality, significance, or magnitude of: appreciated their freedom.
To be fully aware of or sensitive to; realize: I appreciate your problems.
To be thankful or show gratitude for: I really appreciate your help.
To admire greatly; value.
To raise in value or price, especially over time.OK which one of dictionary.com's defs for apreciate was Dr Bob using?
and why did he change the title of the post?
I think this is more ambiguous than ever. I still think he should have accepted a small gift and said Thank You. I find his behaviour unusual and somewhat provocative.
But I'll say no more.
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 19:04:46
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by zazenduck on April 4, 2006, at 18:33:33
> I like you Deneb. I admire your spirit. PLEASE don't let this upset you and get yourself blocked or ruin your trip to Toronto,ok?
I'm not upset. Dr. Bob just wants to give his scarf to the less fortunate, probably because he already has enough scarves or because it doesn't get cold enough for scarves where he lives.
Deneb*
Posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 19:06:33
In reply to I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 17:11:01
>
> Hmmmm...anyone else have any ideas? What's the most likely reason?
>
> Deneb*healthy boundries
Posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 19:11:17
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by zazenduck on April 4, 2006, at 18:33:33
> It almost seems like he wants to continue to engage with you about this. Wouldn't it have been simpler to take the gift say thank you and not make an issue about it? (Oh and don't forget to send a thank you note)
I can't recall how long ago it was, but Dr. Bob was very clear when he answered Deneb back then in saying he didn't want a gift. Maybe its just me, but he is being very clear to me.>
> Dr Bob doesn't always see social norms the way others do....it's just part of being Dr Bob.yes, there are definatly things I don't agree with!
>
> Refusing to accept it just makes it into a bigger deal and continues the dialogue with all this wondering why! I can see a therapist reacting in this way but a forum owner??I completely understnad why, when she asked the question I thought there is not a chance he will accept this.
>
> I like you Deneb. I admire your spirit. PLEASE don't let this upset you and get yourself blocked or ruin your trip to Toronto,ok?I agree, Im sure you will have a great time whether you give it or not.
Just had to add my 1 cent worth
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2006, at 19:15:40
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » zazenduck, posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 19:11:17
Deneb I have a great idea Why not knit baby booties and a scarf for wildcards baby girl the color doesn't matter and I know she'd be thrilled. What do you all think? Love Phillipa
Posted by zazenduck on April 4, 2006, at 19:24:23
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » zazenduck, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 19:04:46
I'm glad to hear that:) I do think people can feel love in something handmade and it may really touch someone somewhere in a way you'll never know. so it was a good thing you did.
>
> I'm not upset. Dr. Bob just wants to give his scarf to the less fortunate, probably because he already has enough scarves or because it doesn't get cold enough for scarves where he lives.
>
> Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 19:34:59
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » Deneb, posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 19:06:33
> healthy boundaries
Boundaries! I don't know why I didn't think of boundaries! LOL I completely forgot about boundaries.
I think I get it now. Dr. Bob can't accept my gift because he doesn't want to be my friend? That sounds a little horrible. Maybe Dr. Bob wants to be my friend but he can't because he has to be objective as an administrator? Maybe Dr. Bob doesn't want to encourage my love obsession for him by sending me mixed messages and confusing me? That means Dr. Bob doesn't like me loving him. :-( But then he said that he appreciates the love...so what does it mean?
I'm getting confused. LegWarmers, you seem to have a good grasp of why Dr. Bob can't accept my scarf....can you explain it to me more?
Would Dr. Bob have accepted my gift if I didn't love him? Would Dr. Bob accept my money? He would probably accept money right? I think he has accepted donations from posters.
Deneb
Posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 19:55:39
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » LegWarmers, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 19:34:59
> > healthy boundaries
>
> Boundaries! I don't know why I didn't think of boundaries! LOL I completely forgot about boundaries.yeah, those darn things are kind of important ; )
>
> I think I get it now. Dr. Bob can't accept my gift because he doesn't want to be my friend? That sounds a little horrible.Thats one way to look at it. He needs to keep a certain level of distance from posters. you know? It isn't horrible at all, I personally would find it odd if he accepted gifts.
>Maybe Dr. Bob wants to be my friend but he can't because he has to be objective as an administrator?
You could look at it that way too. But you have to remember that there are how many posters on this board? you know? We are like a ball point pen to him... this is my interpretation anyway. I have so many of those little blue pens all over the place and if I gave them all a name in addition to remembering all my in real life stuff I would never remember which pen was which. sorry, that was a really dumb example but thats what came to me. So I wouldn't take it personally that he doesn't want the gift. It is about rules, and I persona;;y like rules, because without them the world would become havoc. but back to the scarf, we are not Bob's friends, we are posters he administates. And maybe he thinks of us more as pens with a name rather then just ball point pens, I don't know. But this is my take on it.
>Maybe Dr. Bob doesn't want to encourage my love obsession for him by sending me mixed messages and confusing me?
Very likely. And also, we don't know how many people have secret love obsessions with him, do we? So for all we know he gets love letters all day. How would he keep up lol
>That means Dr. Bob doesn't like me loving him. :-( But then he said that he appreciates the love...so what does it mean?
Im sure he has no problems being loved, we all like to be loved. And I think its clear that your love is innocent. When he said he appreciates the love you put into it, I take that as, he is acknowleding that you have put a lot of your time and thought and love into it and he wants you to know he understands that. But at the same time he feels that he can't accept the scarf, and I would guess that it has NOTHING to do with the love you put into it. I think he wanted you to know, I hear that you worked hard on this for me, but...
>
> I'm getting confused. LegWarmers, you seem to have a good grasp of why Dr. Bob can't accept my scarf....can you explain it to me more?How did I do? he may have completely differnet reasons and if I am straying maybe he can come in and tell me to be quiet.
>
> Would Dr. Bob have accepted my gift if I didn't love him?I don't think so. His decision to accept it, I think, was separate completly from the love. Other than, It probably made it harder for him to say, I can't accept it.
>Would Dr. Bob accept my money?
Its not likely he would accept it as a pesonal gift, but I would : D j/k
and he doesn't seem that interested in bribes either ; )
j/k again!!>He would probably accept money right? I think he has accepted donations from posters.
*Donations* for the site is the key word.. just to assist in the upkeep of the boards.
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 20:38:54
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » Deneb, posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 19:55:39
> > > healthy boundaries
> yeah, those darn things are kind of important ; )
I think I cross boundaries often. Is it okay for me to cross them? Dr. Bob maintains his boundaries so it shouldn't be much of a problem if I cross them right?
> > I think I get it now. Dr. Bob can't accept my gift because he doesn't want to be my friend? That sounds a little horrible.
>
> Thats one way to look at it. He needs to keep a certain level of distance from posters.I wish he didn't have to do that. Hmmm...but then again would I love him as much if he didn't distance himself? Interesting question.
> >Maybe Dr. Bob wants to be my friend but he can't because he has to be objective as an administrator?
>
> You could look at it that way too. But you have to remember that there are how many posters on this board? you know? We are like a ball point pen to him... this is my interpretation anyway.Dr. Bob wrote:
> I'm sorry about not being able to reply promptly to everyone. Please don't take it personally. It doesn't mean you're just a drop in the bucket or I'm not interested. I have warm feelings for everyone who posts, because everyone who posts helps the community by contributing their unique voice.
>
> Bobhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/614133.html
He said he doesn't think we are just drops in a bucket. (or pens in your case)
>I have so many of those little blue pens all over the place and if I gave them all a name in addition to remembering all my in real life stuff I would never remember which pen was which.
I think I post here often enough that he would remember me...
> And maybe he thinks of us more as pens with a name rather then just ball point pens, I don't know. But this is my take on it.
I think he thinks we are much more than just names.
> >He would probably accept money right? I think he has accepted donations from posters.
>
> *Donations* for the site is the key word.. just to assist in the upkeep of the boards.I want to make Bob happy and show him my love by donating money, but I don't have my own money right now. I gotta get a job first.
Deneb*
Posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 20:53:33
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » LegWarmers, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 20:38:54
> > > > healthy boundaries
>
> > yeah, those darn things are kind of important ; )
>
> I think I cross boundaries often. Is it okay for me to cross them? Dr. Bob maintains his boundaries so it shouldn't be much of a problem if I cross them right?If you cross them with Bob? What I have learned through my life is that boundries are vital. Without them people feel uncomfortable, people get into fights, people violate others' space. Boundries may seem insignificant now, but they are really important.
> I wish he didn't have to do that. Hmmm...but then again would I love him as much if he didn't distance himself? Interesting question.
it is.
> Dr. Bob wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry about not being able to reply promptly to everyone. Please don't take it personally. It doesn't mean you're just a drop in the bucket or I'm not interested. I have warm feelings for everyone who posts, because everyone who posts helps the community by contributing their unique voice.
> >
> > Bob
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/614133.html
>
> He said he doesn't think we are just drops in a bucket. (or pens in your case)
>
> >I have so many of those little blue pens all over the place and if I gave them all a name in addition to remembering all my in real life stuff I would never remember which pen was which.
>
> I think I post here often enough that he would remember me...I was being slightly extreme, I supose what I was getting at is that he has his 'life' too. Im sure he would know LegWarmers as well... but I still think we are a bunch of pens in a bulk size package ; )
> I think he thinks we are much more than just names.Yeah.. but we are posters, not friends, and thats important to remember.
>
> I want to make Bob happy and show him my love by donating money, but I don't have my own money right now. I gotta get a job first.So, to you, is this place all about Bob? Or do you also see it as a community with Bob administering?
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 21:13:09
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » Deneb, posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 20:53:33
>Boundries may seem insignificant now, but they are really important.
I guess this means that asking Dr. Bob for a hug in real life is crossing boundaries? I can ask posters for hugs but not Dr. Bob? :-(
> I was being slightly extreme, I supose what I was getting at is that he has his 'life' too. Im sure he would know LegWarmers as well... but I still think we are a bunch of pens in a bulk size package ; )I think Dr. Bob likes us and cares about us. :-) He wouldn't spend so much time on the site if he didn't.
> Yeah.. but we are posters, not friends, and thats important to remember.
I'll try my best. :-)
> So, to you, is this place all about Bob? Or do you also see it as a community with Bob administering?
No, this place is not all about Bob. It's about people like and me.
Deneb*
Posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 21:20:57
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » LegWarmers, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 21:13:09
> >Boundries may seem insignificant now, but they are really important.
>
> I guess this means that asking Dr. Bob for a hug in real life is crossing boundaries? I can ask posters for hugs but not Dr. Bob? :-(ok thats a boundry that I have never had to deal with... I've never hugged a board administrator before ; ) hm..I dunno what his rules would be on that. Hugs can be viewed differnetly, they are often a greeting... so it depends. i would be curious what Bob has to say about that. But my gut says he would have a hug rule too.
> I think Dr. Bob likes us and cares about us. :-) He wouldn't spend so much time on the site if he didn't.Im sure he does too
>
> > Yeah.. but we are posters, not friends, and thats important to remember.
>
> I'll try my best. :-)thats all you can do. it can be confusing when boudries get fuzzy.
>
> > So, to you, is this place all about Bob? Or do you also see it as a community with Bob administering?
>
> No, this place is not all about Bob. It's about people like and me.I was just curious btw... I hope that didn't come across rude, reading it with your response... made it look diffenret to me just now.
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 21:39:52
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » Deneb, posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 21:20:57
> ok thats a boundry that I have never had to deal with... I've never hugged a board administrator before ; ) hm..I dunno what his rules would be on that. Hugs can be viewed differnetly, they are often a greeting... so it depends. i would be curious what Bob has to say about that. But my gut says he would have a hug rule too.
I think I'll ask Dr. Bob if I can hug him. Not a big long hug, just a short little hug.
> I was just curious btw... I hope that didn't come across rude, reading it with your response... made it look diffenret to me just now.No it didn't come across as rude. You were just asking a question.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 21:52:28
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 21:39:52
Dr. Bob, pleeeease don't say no to a hug. Please, pretty please? You won't be the only one getting a hug, I promise. I promise I won't write about whether you hugged me or not on the boards.
Deneb*
Posted by Racer on April 4, 2006, at 22:14:03
In reply to Re: the cold of winter, posted by zazenduck on April 4, 2006, at 18:53:15
> I still think he should have accepted a small gift and said Thank You.
But I don't think this is a small gift at this point. Deneb has posted about this, about how much love she's knitting into it, etc. That makes it a pretty symbolic gift, and frankly? I'd feel pretty uncomfortable about it, too. I don't think it's just that he's a mental health professional, nor that he's the owner of this forum. I think it's just a case of it feeling weird to have someone offer him a gift with so much personal signifigance and symbolism.
And put it in perspective, too: Deneb is a new knitter, knitting is very important to her and a sort of miraculous process for her. Anything she makes right now is hugely significant, and very personal.
That's the way I've been seeing it, at least.
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 22:25:55
In reply to Dr. Bob, please don't say no, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 21:52:28
Sorry, I didn't mean to pressure you Dr. Bob. You can do whatever you want, no pressure.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 22:28:30
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, please don't say no, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 22:25:55
No pressure. I will be civil.
Deneb*
Posted by Racer on April 4, 2006, at 22:31:28
In reply to Dr. Bob, please don't say no, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 21:52:28
Another issue which may come into play for Dr Bob has to do with some professional rules, and some tax rules. Dr Bob, as we know, is a mental health professional, and he writes articles and papers on the subject of Babble. That makes it part of his PROFESSIONAL life, and he can't be paid by the subjects of his research. And The Scarf is payment, according to the tax laws.
But more important, Deneb, is that pesky boundary issue. I realize you "love" Dr Bob -- but part of loving someone is respecting that person, and that person's boundaries. Do you think you're doing that right now?
And a word about hugs: Not everyone is OK about hugs, not everyone is OK about being touched. I'm not OK about being hugged -- you'll notice I never do the cyber hug thing, even -- and if someone ignored that boundary, I'd be very angry, I'd feel very much disrespected and disregarded. It would *not* feel "loving" to me, for someone to ignore my boundaries and hug me anyway. It's perfectly possible that Dr Bob is also not comfortable with being hugged. Please respect his boundaries, on the hug and on the scarf.
Deneb, can you try to love the scarf you're knitting because *you* are making it? Because it's something that feels good to *you,* without it having to be for someone else? Can you transfer some of that "love" from Dr Bob to yourself?
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 22:32:04
In reply to I think you answered that yourself » zazenduck, posted by Racer on April 4, 2006, at 22:14:03
> And put it in perspective, too: Deneb is a new knitter, knitting is very important to her and a sort of miraculous process for her. Anything she makes right now is hugely significant, and very personal.
Bob's scarf was the first thing I ever knit to completion. I used to always lose interest and get bored. I guess it is pretty significant.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 22:41:25
In reply to Boundaries -- both personal and professional » Deneb, posted by Racer on April 4, 2006, at 22:31:28
> Dr Bob, as we know, is a mental health professional, and he writes articles and papers on the subject of Babble. That makes it part of his PROFESSIONAL life, and he can't be paid by the subjects of his research. And The Scarf is payment, according to the tax laws.
Dr. Bob isn't doing research right now. We are not the subjects of research here, right? The scarf is priceless, how can it be considered payment? I don't know tax laws very well.
> I realize you "love" Dr Bob -- but part of loving someone is respecting that person, and that person's boundaries. Do you think you're doing that right now?
I'm just writing about stuff I think about. That's not crossing boundaries right?
> And a word about hugs: Not everyone is OK about hugs, not everyone is OK about being touched.
That's why it's important to ask. I don't plan on hugging Bob without asking. I don't plan on hugging anyone without asking.
> Deneb, can you try to love the scarf you're knitting because *you* are making it? Because it's something that feels good to *you,* without it having to be for someone else? Can you transfer some of that "love" from Dr Bob to yourself?
I can try, but I'm not confident it will work.
Deneb*
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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