![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 4:19:55
In todays session, everything thats happened recently seemed to start coming together. We have been talking about anger, distance, and independence. These themes have been coming out in individual and couples therapy, and with the consultation as well.
I already talked about anger coming out in our couples session with the meltdown. But in fact, suppressed/unexpressed anger was already emerging as an issue with my T. I talked about it a lot in the consultation sessions. About how, given my ACOA history, it was so hard for me to say things that (I thought) would hurt my Ts feelings or make him angry and then (I reasoned) care for me less. I have always had the strong feeling that anger (directed at him) is not easy for my T. I think that, in part, because despite its obvious importance in my therapy, he only rarely brings up the issue that it is hard for me to be angry with him. But then the topic seems to be quickly dropped and never followed up on, much less pushed further. And he does seem to get defensive. I think this is a shortcoming, but Ts are only human. I think having patients/clients getting angry with them is hard for many or most Ts. So, it seemed to me that maybe we were colluding to avoid anger in the relationship. I also imagined that because we had always had a very loving and positive relationship, that maybe there was further collusion to avoid things that would disturb that loving quality. And finally, I imagined that maybe as I was getting better and healing, always coming closer to finishing, he was defensively withdrawing from me because he would be upset at losing me. And finally, I assumed that he was unaware of his own feelings and countertransference. Unlike me, the hyper-vigilant one with near-psychic sensitivity who was so attuned to subtle clues and could read him like a book. Or so I assumed.
My dilemma was that these thoughts prevented me from productively talking over them with my T. Plus, since I was making all sorts of assumptions about his feelings and defenses, and their unconscious nature, I found myself in a position that even if we talked about them, I wouldnt have believed him. So this dilemma was part of what drove me to seek consultation. The consultant therapist (CT, for short) pointed out a number of things. Chief among these was my implicit assumption that he couldnt take care of himself so I had to take care of us both, plus direct the therapy. This caretaking and role reversal was such a large part of my growing up and here I was repeating it in therapy. He has always said that he can take care of himself, and me when I needed it. So why couldnt I believe him? Fears of being disappointed and abandoned? One of the major goals in my therapy is to work through these issues. So I took what the CT and I talked about, consolidated the ideas, and went back into therapy with him.
So weve been working on these things since. And today, I pushed again my feelings of distance, which I said I thought he was oblivious to. He did look surprised but took a few minutes to think about it. Then he said that his feelings of closeness to me hadnt changed at all. But yes, he had noticed a difference between us and was aware that it was upsetting me. But he said he thought that what I was interpreting as distance was really a more positive thing, that I was moving out of a stage marked by extreme dependency and toward a more independent, egalitarian position. He said that in relinquishing this more symbiotic, merged sort of relationship, I would now feel better because the painful yearnings were receding. And that since Id associated that dependency with closeness, I experienced lessened dependency as distance, felt insecure, and didnt know what to replace it with. He said that what makes two people close is not what they say, but their going through shared experiences together. And that thats what we would continue to do. It was a good discussion, one that opens up the therapy space between us and gives me more room to grow into this new, more independent lucie (lol) that I want to be. And that I am slowly, steadily becoming.
I have long noticed that as Im about to make a big step forward in therapy, I have a flash of what almost feels like a vision. It is as if I am a child learning to ride a bike, and I keep falling over, but then there is this one memorable moment when it all works before I fall over again. But having felt it once, I know I can feel it again and can learn to recognize it and practice it. Like when I was first considering rejoining the human race (see, its not a new or small issue for me!) after years of emotional isolation and a history of neglect, I remember the precise moment when I first really experienced the thoughts and feelings, the immense possibilities, of connectedness. So a week or two ago, I suddenly had this vision of myself as an independent, self-assured woman, capable of meeting my own needs, accepting my past but able to put it away, able to say good-bye to therapy and my T, and ready to move on with my life. I dont feel this way now, but I wont forget that feeling. It gives me hope that I will get there and that it will be great.
So thats where we are. Thanks for reading.
Lucie
Posted by cal on March 7, 2009, at 5:28:16
In reply to Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 4:19:55
Luci Lu,
Thanks for posting this today, this is exactly where I feel I am at the moment but not quite able to word it so well. Only yesterday in therapy I felt myself irritated at T's attempts to help me and ended up telling her I didn't want her feed back to which she replie I could always tell her to shut up, which put like that I didnt want to do that either and I felt just plain irritable, perhaps it was my own knowledge that I am becoming more able to sort my own thoughts and feelings out now and for an instant I experienced this and it scared me hence the irritation. I think your T is right about the relationship being about what we go through together rather than how dependent we remain which I need reminding off as indiviudation growing up was met with brutelity and withdrawal of care. Its always good to read that others are going through the same milestones!
Posted by workinprogress on March 7, 2009, at 6:00:22
In reply to Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 4:19:55
Lucie-
Wow, that is awesome. I am so impressed with you and how hard you worked to get to the point you are in this recent go 'round. It sounds like you've come to some really great observations and learned some useful things to understand this new (and really exciting but also maybe scary) phase of therapy.
Good luck to you and keep us posted on this phase. I find it so interesting the patterns in therapy- I too can sort of tell a new phase is coming. It's different from yours, I feel trepidation. Big growth is big pain usually, growing pains I think... and I get little signals (not sure I know exactly what they are now, but I know them) that it's time to "hold on to my hat" because this is gonna be tough.
So, regardless of if it's hard and you need support or exciting and you need to celebrate... let us know because at least from my perspective, we might as well benefit from you rolling down that road before us. It's like having a sneak preview!
And congratulations Lucie, you so deserve the fabulous, self-confident, independent you you're unveiling!
WIP
Posted by Therapy Girl on March 7, 2009, at 10:34:40
In reply to Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 4:19:55
I'm going to have to read this through several times to get all the pieces (thyroid brain, you know), but I am so impressed with your ability to look at all the pieces of your process and figure out what's going on. You are a wonder!
Posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2009, at 12:46:15
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long) » lucie lu, posted by Therapy Girl on March 7, 2009, at 10:34:40
Theraphy Girl sorry the thyroid brain boy relate to that and the reading over to get the content right. Two to three times for me so far it's a positive Thread I believe. Love Phillipa
Posted by raisinb on March 7, 2009, at 13:55:13
In reply to Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 4:19:55
Lucie, congratulations for this incredible progress. I so admire this ability to talk about vulnerable feelings with your therapist. I still can't do that--I talk about anger instead, in a defensive way. However, it sounds like you and your therapist need to delve into that anger, and perhaps your improved relationship will help you do that.
In my own therapy, I have noticed several different kinds of anger. The first, and most simple, is justifiable (though I hate that word--all feelings, as she reminds me, are valid) anger at crossed boundaries, most often when I feel she puts too much responsibility on me (like you, I always take the caretaking responsibility in all my relationships, including therapy, and perhaps part of that is coming into play). The second is anger as a defense against more vulnerable feelings of dependency, love, and need. I often start fights with her when I feel these things, and it took me awhile to recognize that. The third is anger that I have to do so much in that relationship--that I don't get anything back. Despite the fact that I know therapy is one-sided in many ways, I still get angry at the inherent limitations, mostly because I can't see them as not about me--it seems like if I acquiesce to these limits, I am acknowledging that I don't deserve the things I want from her--and in general.
I can identify with the fact that a more egalitarian, less dependent relationship is scary. Sometimes I feel that my whole life, I've been looking for the love and care that I didn't get as a child. When I think about maybe not needing that so much, it's scary, because then, what do I shoot for? What goals do I replace that longing with?
It sounds like you are doing so well, and the consultation was a big step. Thank you for posting this; it's wonderful to read about similar issues and hope for getting through them.
Posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 14:40:14
In reply to Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 4:19:55
Significant change within ourselves tends to happen so slowly that it may become apparent only in the rearview mirror. When I first posted on Babble, almost a year ago, it was about feeling something disturbingly vague and "wrong" in my relationship with my T, as though we had reached some sort of impasse although I didn't know what about. In retrospect I think it was this slow maturation process taking a new turn, starting to work through dependency. We did some good work together and by the end of the summer, I felt a new, unfamiliar yet delicious sense of inner stability. Then (hmmm), I took a dive back into depression. It was a rough time last fall. I found I needing rescuing from time to time again, more phone calls, and yet felt oddly stuck. I thought I sensed his getting impatient with me, with the return of my dependency, although he denied it. Maybe I was projecting, hard to know. Then in December, I started seeing the consultant because I didn't know what was going on and was really disturbed by it. I felt distant and insecure, and felt like therapy just wasn't working. She helped me frame some issues to discuss with my T, which we did. But I kept feeling stuck in some fundamental way. Nonetheless, gradually I noticed myself changing in other ways, steps towards becoming more independent, more adult. When I could no longer ignore those changes, then I got anxious again and went back to the consultant because I felt distant etc. You know the rest. So what I see in the rearview mirror is what my T said yesterday about outgrowing a more dependency-based relationship but being unsure about what to put in its place. I hope I can keep on task this time and not slip back again.
This fall it will be 7 years that I've been in therapy with him.
Posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 14:40:58
In reply to Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 4:19:55
Significant change within ourselves tends to happen so slowly that it may become apparent only in the rearview mirror. When I first posted on Babble, almost a year ago, it was about feeling something disturbingly vague and "wrong" in my relationship with my T, as though we had reached some sort of impasse although I didn't know what about. In retrospect I think it was this slow maturation process taking a new turn, starting to work through dependency. We did some good work together and by the end of the summer, I felt a new, unfamiliar yet delicious sense of inner stability. Then (hmmm), I took a dive back into depression. It was a rough time last fall. I found I needing rescuing from time to time again, more phone calls, and yet felt oddly stuck. I thought I sensed his getting impatient with me, with the return of my dependency, although he denied it. Maybe I was projecting, hard to know. Then in December, I started seeing the consultant because I didn't know what was going on and was really disturbed by it. I felt distant and insecure, and felt like therapy just wasn't working. She helped me frame some issues to discuss with my T, which we did. But I kept feeling stuck in some fundamental way. Nonetheless, gradually I noticed myself changing in other ways, steps towards becoming more independent, more adult. When I could no longer ignore those changes, then I got anxious again and went back to the consultant because I felt distant etc. You know the rest. So what I see in the rearview mirror is what my T said yesterday about outgrowing a more dependency-based relationship but being unsure about what to put in its place. I hope I can keep on task this time and not slip back again.
This fall it will be 7 years that I've been in therapy with him.
Posted by obsidian on March 7, 2009, at 23:28:56
In reply to Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 4:19:55
wow, that's great
I keep remembering learning to ride a bike and falling. It's an interesting metaphor, trying it on your own, feeling shaky, hoping for support so you don't fall. Maybe not finding it, but picking yourself up anyway and trying again.
I have very few memories of my father, but that's one, the learning to ride a bike. He let me go too soon. I suppose I remember it because it was how things were, how I felt, unprotected.
I'm an ACOA for whatever that label means. I did go to some meetings for a while. I've got that almost psychic hypersensitivity thing
(or at least I think I do ;-)
it's quite another thing to check out another's perceptions and not solely go with that hypersensitivity, and a very risky thing to do.
I guess my task continues to be sharing those instantaneous judgments and thoughts I keep to myself. I'm not used to sharing them.Well anyway, I'm glad for you. You sound like things are progressing.
-sid
Posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 7:25:01
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long) » lucie lu, posted by obsidian on March 7, 2009, at 23:28:56
Sid,
I really hate that name, don't you? It sounds more restrictive than it is, too, because ACOA history usually includes other kinds of trauma. But there are certain traits that do seem to be so common among people growing up in a substance-abusing home that the term can be a useful short-hand sometimes to describe certain behaviors. And I often take the lazy person' way out so I don't haved to type so much ;-)
As for the whole hypersensitivity to others' emotions thing, it has always been a problem and has often made me quite paranoid. With this T I've been able to learn some reality testing. And I find that although I really am very good in sensing very subtle things from other people, because of my childhood training, I am not always very accurate in interpreting what it is I'm picking up, ironically because of that same childhood training. Sometimes it drives me crazy to be getting all these subliminal signals from other people and yet not have enough information or clear frame of reference to know what they are really saying. I mean, really, how can we be expected to understand subtler aspects of human relationships when our early ones were so convoluted and confusing? And I do tend to go a bit nuts when what I sense and what is said don't match. But obviously sometimes I am wrong, I add 1 plus 1 and get 57, and I was wrong in a lot of respects about what I assumed my T was feeling in this case. (Although I'll bet I was right about a lot of it too. That was the 1+1 part, I was just wrong about the 57, lol)
Lucie
Posted by Dinah on March 8, 2009, at 9:50:02
In reply to ACOA = adult child of alcoholic(s) (trigger?) » obsidian, posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 7:25:01
> With this T I've been able to learn some reality testing. And I find that although I really am very good in sensing very subtle things from other people, because of my childhood training, I am not always very accurate in interpreting what it is I'm picking up, ironically because of that same childhood training.
> And I do tend to go a bit nuts when what I sense and what is said don't match. But obviously sometimes I am wrong, I add 1 plus 1 and get 57, and I was wrong in a lot of respects about what I assumed my T was feeling in this case. (Although I'll bet I was right about a lot of it too. That was the 1+1 part, I was just wrong about the 57, lol)
I can so empathize with what you and sid are saying. I have learned that too. That what I call my semipsychic abilities can be very accurate, but my ability to interpret them is less well developed. The more companionate stage of therapy where I have found myself is perfect for sharing my perceptions about him, and having him conversationally and nondefensively, and most important - honestly, discuss my perceptions.
And the benefit of that is not only to improve my ability to interpret, or to realize and accept that even if I'm really semipsychic, that doesn't mean my perceptions of a situation are correct, but also to somehow define the boundaries of where I end and others begin. The boundary part is where I get the sort of feeling that you described in an earlier post. That things are changing, and I am changing.
Posted by antigua3 on March 8, 2009, at 10:34:17
In reply to Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 4:19:55
A few things jumped out at me in your post. They're just my observations, so feel free to ignore them.
First, this whole anger issue is really important to me. Both of my parents were alcoholiics at different stages, and at the same time for many years, and so I grew up being the "good" girl so nobody would ever get mad. Of course, I had no control over their quick tempers or unreliable behavior, but I did my best not to cause any trouble and to be helpful with the younger children.
So I learned to stuff my anger. I have a very difficult time handling when someone is angry at me and I over react with my own anger at things that don't deserve such a full blown reaction.
I don't like to get angry. It feels very risky. I rarely even get mad at my children, but since I trust my husband enough, it comes out easily w/him.
Maybe your T is like my podc (yikes!) in some ways. So often I want to push through an issue and he seems to push it off. My anger toward him is one of them. The others are big,too, like does he even care at all, where's the support I think I need, etc. He is different in that I assume he has always been against me becoming too dependent in our relationship. Notice the word "assume." It's a big one for me; to assume he's thinking one way, based on my past experiences, only to discover that when we work through an issue, I've been held hostage by the misperceptions of my youth.
But maybe these are such important issues (anger, for ex.) that can't be dealt with until the deeper ones subside. My pdoc hasn't said this explicitly, but by ignoring these issues, I think he mismatches my need to express them with how ready I am to delve into them. Since so much of my anger is directed at him--projected really--and he does try to provide a safe place for me to express that anger, because my anger is all out of whack given my childood.
But he has made it very clear that he can handle my anger, no matter how bad it gets, and I have behaved absolutely horribly at times. I've gone over the top /being angry at him at times, but he is always able to handle it. At times, I think that untl some of the other issues are resolved, we will never deal fully with the anger. Does that make any sense? He says that when I erupt like I do, it's a fine balancing act between what's appropriate for the situation and what I'm projecting. This doesn't really matter yet because it's still the projection that is important and it's what we're dealing with now.
I dont necessarily think anger is difficult for therapists to handle. Maybe Ive just been lucky to have therapists who encourage the anger, despite wanting to temper it with work in other areas. Ive been told repeatedly that they can handle my anger, no matter how bad it is, and if its directed at them (my poor pdoc; he takes the lions share). But each time I get angry, theres an underlying issue that we deal with and often resolve, and then its back to the anger again w/a new situation. This is my pdoc Im speaking of. Its like the anger is a symptom of the underlying pathology for me, and each time the anger is resolved a little more. Does that make sense?
I think my pdoc addresses the anger and tries to go below the surface to find what has triggered the anger. Its healing from the bottom up, instead of top down. He does this to protect me. If my anger is so explosive, he says were going too deep, too fast, and I often end up in a huge meltdown. My pdoc wouldnt ever collude to avoid anger to maintain the relationship. Thats not necessarily good; he just doesnt put the relationship first, although I wish he would at times, for my own protection. (But wait, he doesnt believe that we even have a relationship!)
What bothers me is my fear that I back down from arguing with him for my own protection, much like I did as a child. That I give in, even though I think he really is wrong, because I dont want him angry at me! I never could accept that anger was OK in my family, and while Im learning now that there are times when its necessary and appropriate, I still dont have an adequate internal radar detector when it comes to anger. I tend to think its all bad, but there are many uses for it when its used productively. I still fight my pdoc over this. I think its my main problem with male authority figures. I want to fight and prove them wrong, I want to win. I think Ive learned in just this past week, that it isnt about winning. My father was always right, but he wasnt (if you understand what I mean) and I feel myself growing toward an understanding of this, much like youve described.
Anger is the main issue for me. Ive never been able to deal with it in relation to my father, and were working on that, for me to let it out. No easy task when your earliest childhood experiences were to never express anger against a strict authoritarian.
So, I dont think your T resists your anger, and can handle it. Mine even holds it for me so that it gives me some distance from it so that I can explore it. But in my case, the anger is the symptom of some disturbing underlying pathology about the way I view the world.
But I am glad youve come to some sort of détente, or peace, maybe. But you also may be intellectualizing this so much in order for it to make sense to you. I mean that in the nicest way possibleI certainly may be projecting my own thoughts on you.
So keep talking! It is great to have those moments when we realize we can do some of this on our own.
antigua
Posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 11:16:55
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by cal on March 7, 2009, at 5:28:16
> Luci Lu,
>
> Thanks for posting this today, this is exactly where I feel I am at the moment but not quite able to word it so well. Only yesterday in therapy I felt myself irritated at T's attempts to help me and ended up telling her I didn't want her feed back to which she replie I could always tell her to shut up, which put like that I didnt want to do that either and I felt just plain irritable, perhaps it was my own knowledge that I am becoming more able to sort my own thoughts and feelings out now and for an instant I experienced this and it scared me hence the irritation. I think your T is right about the relationship being about what we go through together rather than how dependent we remain which I need reminding off as indiviudation growing up was met with brutelity and withdrawal of care. Its always good to read that others are going through the same milestones!Cal, I feel the same way, so thanks for sharing yours :)
Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 11:23:34
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 11:16:55
Posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 11:28:21
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long) » lucie lu, posted by workinprogress on March 7, 2009, at 6:00:22
> Good luck to you and keep us posted on this phase. I find it so interesting the patterns in therapy- I too can sort of tell a new phase is coming. It's different from yours, I feel trepidation. Big growth is big pain usually, growing pains I think... and I get little signals (not sure I know exactly what they are now, but I know them) that it's time to "hold on to my hat" because this is gonna be tough.
>WIP, I usually don't recognize growing pains as such when they happen. It's usually only evident in hindsight. I think that maybe my depression last fall was at least partly growing pains, although it didn't feel at all that way then. It was painful and I felt very stuck and regressed. But as my T would say, some regression is "in the service of the ego" meaning that it accomplishes some useful purpose. Maybe that's what you experience too.
~L.
Posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 11:29:35
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long) » lucie lu, posted by Therapy Girl on March 7, 2009, at 10:34:40
Posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 11:34:56
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long) » lucie lu, posted by raisinb on March 7, 2009, at 13:55:13
>I still get angry at the inherent limitations, mostly because I can't see them as not about me--it seems like if I acquiesce to these limits, I am acknowledging that I don't deserve the things I want from her--and in general.
Raisin, I feel this way too. This is, for me, a large part of what makes dependency so painful. The feeling of being undeserving is so hard to work through. I'm not sure I ever will completely.
> I can identify with the fact that a more egalitarian, less dependent relationship is scary. Sometimes I feel that my whole life, I've been looking for the love and care that I didn't get as a child. When I think about maybe not needing that so much, it's scary, because then, what do I shoot for? What goals do I replace that longing with?
>You hit the nail squarely on the head with your last question. I think it deserves its own thread, don't you?
Posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 11:38:29
In reply to Re: ACOA = adult child of alcoholic(s) (trigger?), posted by Dinah on March 8, 2009, at 9:50:02
> I can so empathize with what you and sid are saying. I have learned that too. That what I call my semipsychic abilities can be very accurate, but my ability to interpret them is less well developed. The more companionate stage of therapy where I have found myself is perfect for sharing my perceptions about him, and having him conversationally and nondefensively, and most important - honestly, discuss my perceptions.
>
> And the benefit of that is not only to improve my ability to interpret, or to realize and accept that even if I'm really semipsychic, that doesn't mean my perceptions of a situation are correct, but also to somehow define the boundaries of where I end and others begin. The boundary part is where I get the sort of feeling that you described in an earlier post. That things are changing, and I am changing.
It is really helpful to have at least someone in your life who is able to hear out your interpretations and help you separate fact from fantasy. Extreme sensitivity blends so seamlessly into fantasy that it can be very difficult to tell where one ends and the other begins. Very murky waters, there.
Posted by Dinah on March 8, 2009, at 14:08:41
In reply to Re: ACOA = adult child of alcoholic(s) (trigger?) » Dinah, posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 11:38:29
My son is very matter of fact about it. I had always considered it to be a skill I learned defensively because I needed to. But he has the same ability to pick up tiny signs and clues, and assemble them quickly. In fact, he's better than I am, and to my knowledge he's never had any reason to need to be.
I hope it's helpful to him that from an early age he's able to be open about what he perceives, and to check his conclusions with us. I hope he's learning now what I didn't learn until... now. That being sensitive to emotional input can be a good thing. But that it only goes so far and is only one source of information. It's not sufficient in itself to draw conclusions.
Posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 20:14:30
In reply to Re: ACOA = adult child of alcoholic(s) (trigger?) » lucie lu, posted by Dinah on March 8, 2009, at 14:08:41
I do think these sorts of qualities are inborn and related to temperament. Sensitivity, imagination, dissociability, empathy, these are all largely inherent in us to a greater or lesser degree from birth IMO. Then our experiences help to shape how these traits are expressed through our personalities. For children with healthy upbringings these traits can emerge as beneficial talents. For children in trauma-producing environments, these same traits can be put to defensive advantage. However, used in this way, they can become distorted because of how they are being used, i.e. to respond to abnormal situations. So unless relearned, these traits can become problematic later on. Dissociation is a good example, but empathic hypersensitivity is another, I think. It can be a double-edged sword.
Posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 20:15:25
In reply to Re: ACOA = adult child of alcoholic(s) (trigger?), posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 20:14:30
Posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 20:33:55
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by antigua3 on March 8, 2009, at 10:34:17
Antigua,
Your posts are always thoughtful and thought-provoking, and this one has given me a lot to think over.
You are right that I really need to look deep into my anger and that my T is likely to be able to handle it and help me with it. I need to give him a chance to do that. I see him tomorrow and will raise all this.
The second thing that I'm struggling with is, if I am making assumptions about him that are incorrect, why am I making those particular assumptions? I am having a really hard time trying to figure out what is real and what isn't. There is more here than I can post about tonight, and I need to think more about all this.
Thank you so much for sharing all of this, Antigua. I'll let you know how tomorrow's session goes.
Lucie
Posted by DAisym on March 8, 2009, at 23:29:37
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long) » antigua3, posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 20:33:55
"The second thing that I'm struggling with is, if I am making assumptions about him that are incorrect, why am I making those particular assumptions? I am having a really hard time trying to figure out what is real and what isn't. There is more here than I can post about tonight, and I need to think more about all this."
Lucie,
What jumps out at me here is you saying, "I am having a really hard time trying to figure out" -- isn't that what you AND your therapist should be doing together in therapy? As you begin to look at taking care of his feelings, perhaps (like me) you need to let go of trying to keep one step ahead of him too. For a very long time, I felt like I had to know where all our conversations were going or I had to identify my own pathology before he did. (yeah, sure.) I still do this to some extent.
When we explore this, I find that I'm very afraid that I'll be too much or too hard, or too something -- and my therapist will opt to transfer or terminate me. I have to trust his professional abilities, as much as I have to trust his caring and our relationship.
Man-oh-man, is this stuff hard! Good luck tomorrow.
Posted by lucie lu on March 9, 2009, at 7:54:00
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long), posted by DAisym on March 8, 2009, at 23:29:37
> "The second thing that I'm struggling with is, if I am making assumptions about him that are incorrect, why am I making those particular assumptions? I am having a really hard time trying to figure out what is real and what isn't. There is more here than I can post about tonight, and I need to think more about all this."
>
> Lucie,
>
> What jumps out at me here is you saying, "I am having a really hard time trying to figure out" -- isn't that what you AND your therapist should be doing together in therapy? As you begin to look at taking care of his feelings, perhaps (like me) you need to let go of trying to keep one step ahead of him too. For a very long time, I felt like I had to know where all our conversations were going or I had to identify my own pathology before he did. (yeah, sure.) I still do this to some extent.
>
> When we explore this, I find that I'm very afraid that I'll be too much or too hard, or too something -- and my therapist will opt to transfer or terminate me. I have to trust his professional abilities, as much as I have to trust his caring and our relationship.
>
> Man-oh-man, is this stuff hard! Good luck tomorrow.Oh YES!!! You captured it exactly.
Posted by antigua3 on March 9, 2009, at 8:42:33
In reply to Re: Anger, individuation, and taking risks (long) » antigua3, posted by lucie lu on March 8, 2009, at 20:33:55
I'm just learning why I make these assumptions. Primarily because of the way I perceived my father as treating me, I expect men who are authoritative figures in my life to respond as my father did. But I've learned that's not necessarily true, but separating out what is a "real" vs. "perceived" perception is very, very difficult. That's why my pdoc surprises me so much at times--what I've been thinking about him all along has turned out to be false,but I was too blind to see it.
good luck today,
antigua
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